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Dimaga may switch to Terran - Page 44

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knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
August 16 2010 22:12 GMT
#861
On August 17 2010 01:26 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2010 19:24 Geo.Rion wrote:
On August 16 2010 19:14 IdrA wrote:
On August 16 2010 09:44 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 16 2010 09:06 IdrA wrote:
On August 16 2010 06:59 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 16 2010 06:27 Boblion wrote:
On August 16 2010 05:41 bokeevboke wrote:
Go4sc2 pretty much proves Dimaga's decision. He loses 2 games of bo5 to Demuslim with regular races and comes ahead 3-2 after they switch their races.

I'm not that sure. Imo Demuslim ( war 3 ) is just not as good with Z ( the only race with true bw style macro ) than Dimaga is with Terran. It could be a matter of play style.

If you look at their game history, Demuslim (Z) beat Dimaga (T) 7-4 yesterday night.

So who cares.

+ Show Spoiler [Gosucup] +
Dimaga just beat SjoW 2-0 or something in gosucup quarters. Oh noes teh imba.

people take what you write seriously. dont do that.


I'm saying that dimaga and demuslim playing their off-races doesn't mean shit. Unless you are refering to the spoiler.

i am
the fact that dimaga beating sjow could be considered meaningful shows just how silly terran is.

:D
Well said, Dimaga is probably higher on Europe's best Zergs list then Sjow is on Sweeeden's best terrans. NO offense to Sjow, it's just a compliment for Sweedish Terrans

SjoW is probably the 2nd best T in sweden (behind MorroW). Tho I don't really know what his TvZ is like, and I think he told me its his worst if my memory is correct.


Well it still holds true since dimaga is probably the best zerg in europe.
Tritonus
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark125 Posts
August 16 2010 22:14 GMT
#862
On August 17 2010 06:09 Zato-1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 05:43 Marcury wrote:
On August 17 2010 05:29 Zato-1 wrote:
On August 17 2010 02:27 Liquid`HayprO wrote:
i think the maps are a bigger reasons to the success terrans are having atm. some maps are just autowins for terran.

Which maps, and for which matchups? The only map I remember being horribly imbalanced was Incineration Zone, but that one's been out for a long time now.


Lost temple TvX --> entrance makes it really really difficult to attack with siege tanks on ridge. In TvZ thor drop overlooking natural is a nightmare to deal with.

This one makes a lot of sense. I haven't ever played against Terran in LT, but I can see the potential of that ledge plus tanks.

Kulas, I don't quite agree. As Protoss at least, I've also been able to abuse the cliffs to harass the Terran right back, and there's so much space for me to expand to that granting Terrans control of a small chunk of the map isn't game breaking, IMO.

As to Delta Quadrant, I've never played there, so nothing I can say.


Yes. As P. Have you ever been reaper rushed (and I'm talking LZgamer style 3 rax with 5-10-15 reapers) as Z on Kulas ravine? It's an absolute nightmare. If you manage to survive long enough for the the other units to arrive, you wake up and realize that the reaper rush was just a dream within the nightmare that has just begun.
Gauldoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Argentina4 Posts
August 16 2010 23:40 GMT
#863
I think zerg need to start thinking out of the box, in a really basic level protoss are supposed to have the strongest units, but also a high cost on each of them, Terran is supposed to be balanced in between, not that strong of units and not that expensive but not that weak either and zerg are supposed to have weaker units than the rest, they are supposed to relay on numbers and mobility.

But there are a number of factors that can modify this and btw I think are not being taken into consideration. Maps is a big example of that, i remember 2008/2009 in BW protoss completely dominating with the so called 7 protoss dragons and some part of it was the protoss slightly favored maps back then. I mean look at the map pool right now, as a zerg you need to pray to play on crap station (yea i said crap) and metalopolis maybe, considering i dont see too many torneys using desert oasis. Maybe now delta cuadrant could add to the zerg maps, i havent played it much but i have that feeling that tells me its a zerg map

Also ppl say that zergs are doing bad in all servers and well, a big part of that is even at the beta there were not so many zerg players to begin with, even back then the mayority were terran so its kind of obvius terran is gonna develop sooner in any way possible.

Dont get me wrong, im not saying ZvT is totally balanced, maybe it needs some small changes but to be honest im not a follower of DIMAGA because i didnt like his style of play with the zerg neither back then in the beta nor now, in fact i think i like TLO zerg play better, i mean zergling/baneling(optional)/infestor into ultralisk or broodlord against Terran i liked a lot.

zerg can instantly have 3 larva to use every 2 minutes and they STACK that means that in a 50 vs 50 food against every race if you've been active with your queens you can lose everything and have it back instantly, they have nidus network and OL as transports and movement speed increased on creep and several ways to spread the creep on the map which makes it the most movile race by far, they only use 1 structure to build units, you can actually have every tech building and choose what to do acording to what your opponent does (assuming you have the economy to support it of course) but it is also something bad because you have to choose between workers and units, they have the easiest way to scout, have map control and control of xel naga towers (OLs and zerglings)

Anyway, botton line.. try thinking maybe there is something you havent tried in those match ups, maybe you can do something diffent even at a pro level, maybe you will all see something you havent seen before
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
August 16 2010 23:44 GMT
#864
Weird. I wouldn't switch races just because of his reasoning...
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
Keap
Profile Joined July 2010
United States214 Posts
August 16 2010 23:46 GMT
#865
Anyone else noticed every T's response is exactly the same?

"Well, I'm not saying zerg players suck, or saying terran is fine, I'm just saying it's up to you guys to pull a new strategy out of your asses to counter the 'imbalance'"

You kids don't think Dimaga, Idra, Seth, and Machine tried everything hundreds of times before reaching their conclusion?
Fizbin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada202 Posts
August 16 2010 23:50 GMT
#866
to everyone who is hating on dimaga for this statement get a grip. he NEEDS results. and if terran is a way to do that for him he has EVERY RIGHT TO DO IT. and to anyone who says he sucks..... more likely u suck. dimaga is one of the best players in the entire world. and you will never be as good as him.

nuff said
just the tip
Gauldoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Argentina4 Posts
August 16 2010 23:59 GMT
#867
On August 17 2010 08:46 Keap wrote:
Anyone else noticed every T's response is exactly the same?

"Well, I'm not saying zerg players suck, or saying terran is fine, I'm just saying it's up to you guys to pull a new strategy out of your asses to counter the 'imbalance'"

You kids don't think Dimaga, Idra, Seth, and Machine tried everything hundreds of times before reaching their conclusion?


I, actually, dont.. how much time did it take to korean pro gamers to develop strategies? they've been playing SCBW for more than 10 years, always evolving and you are telling me that idra has it all figured out in 2 weeks? seriusly come on. I understand DIMAGA tho in his decition to switch races, he has to be better because its his job, if zerg isnt working then something else should be but that doesnt imply terran are OP or zerg are weak.
st3roids
Profile Joined June 2010
Greece538 Posts
August 17 2010 00:22 GMT
#868
I also believe balances should only be from top 100 and tournaments top , cause all others dont play races at its fullest.

some openings like banker reaper rush vs zerg need xtreme apm and multitasking and cannot be performed by mid diamond and lower , you need pro lvls for that
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-17 04:10:48
August 17 2010 00:31 GMT
#869
On August 17 2010 08:50 Fizbin wrote:
to everyone who is hating on dimaga for this statement get a grip. he NEEDS results. and if terran is a way to do that for him he has EVERY RIGHT TO DO IT. and to anyone who says he sucks..... more likely u suck. dimaga is one of the best players in the entire world. and you will never be as good as him.

nuff said

So he's won two (Edit: my bad, three) go4sc2s out of 4 (edit: 6) since the beta ended, and finished top 4 in a couple of other tournaments.......

How is this not results -.-?

I'm mostly annoyed at these complaints because dimaga has owned me since the beta started (0-2 zotac, 0-1 zotac, 0-1 go4sc2, 0-2 razer domination, 1-2 craftcup, 0-1 go4sc2, 1-2 go4sc2 - these are the ones I remember, might be more - he went on to win or finish 2nd in most of these).
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Fluxx
Profile Joined July 2008
Netherlands58 Posts
August 17 2010 00:33 GMT
#870
On August 17 2010 02:21 jlr5175 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 02:13 oxxo wrote:
On August 17 2010 02:13 jlr5175 wrote:
One thing I haven't seen addressed yet is PvT. I have to wait 3 days before I can make a thread and ZvT is clearly a much bigger issue then PvT but Protoss has a damn hard time trying to keep up with Terran too. Chrono boosting helps us get units out faster yes but where is our help economic wise? Zergs are notorious for getting resources quick and Terrans have MULEs,which after watching Greenforest last night and seeing 3 of qxc's MULEs outperform 34 of iNKA's probes, that pretty much propeled them to Zerg's level of economy if not just under it in my opinion which makes the Protoss situation even harder based on the fact that our basic units cost so much along with the build times for buildings,research times,and the costs of affording all that while managing a steady army or having an army to counter a Terran plus spreading our chrono boost out to speed our research and unit production up is damn near impossible because of how cheap their low tier army is and how cheap their low tier upgrades(most of their upgrades in general) are such as Combat shield,Concussive shells,Stimpack,etc.Where are all the little upgrades for low tier units on Protoss? How do we counter an early game Stimpack/Concussive shell micro? Marauders dominate Zealots with the shells and they dominate Stalkers after they kite your Zealots to death. The best thing we have is a Sentry to force field behind them which if you dont completely block them off they'll just run right around back to their base to be healed and costs 100 vespene gas taking away from the ability to get more Stalkers to even possibly range Marauders and Marines. Not to mention Marines have ridiculously good DPS.


This a joke? PvT if anything is imbalanced in favor of P outside of the ghost/no HT window.

How is it imbalanced in favor of Protoss? Explain. Collossi are countered by super-range Vikings and with the Mech support range that Terran usually brings around its bio ball and ghosts you cant directly push. High Templars are great and all but they wont save you from the supreme range of the mech and the constant medivac healing/scv repairing that terran usually encompasses within its army. Immortals are powerful yes but when they get focus fired they go down quick. Void Rays are OP in numbers and UP in smaller numbers. The whole charging up thing is a bad idea and doesnt fit into RTS play at all. Just make the Void ray a regular damn piece of aircraft and make its damage stay at the same level instead of raising overtime that it's charging.


High Templar make the difference, favouring Protoss. The playing field is equal for both toss and terran until HT enter the field.
aseq
Profile Joined January 2003
Netherlands4001 Posts
August 17 2010 00:54 GMT
#871
I think it's way too early to say.

BW came out in 1998, and the last balance patch, 1.08, in 2000 or 2001? That's 9 years ago, and in those 9 years there have been multiple times of dominance from each race, without any balance changes! Sure, the maps are far better now, but a lot comes from playing styles as well. Boxer, Oov Nada, Bisu, Stork, Savior, Jaedong, July, have all been at the very top of BW without any balance changes being made in between.

I actually think this is more of a cry for help then a good plan from Dimaga...I hope they maybe buff Z slightly in the patch, but not a great deal, and wait for further results.
st3roids
Profile Joined June 2010
Greece538 Posts
August 17 2010 00:58 GMT
#872
Every pro has his agenta.

terran ones obviously will claim all is good , toss may cry a bit about tvp and also claim pvz is balance

Zerg ones cry for both , which is true u cant rly know for sure unless you work for blizzard.

imo zerg early game and scouting is rly messed up and needs tweaking.
chekthehek
Profile Joined May 2010
United States279 Posts
August 17 2010 01:05 GMT
#873
On August 17 2010 09:33 Fluxx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 02:21 jlr5175 wrote:
On August 17 2010 02:13 oxxo wrote:
On August 17 2010 02:13 jlr5175 wrote:
One thing I haven't seen addressed yet is PvT. I have to wait 3 days before I can make a thread and ZvT is clearly a much bigger issue then PvT but Protoss has a damn hard time trying to keep up with Terran too. Chrono boosting helps us get units out faster yes but where is our help economic wise? Zergs are notorious for getting resources quick and Terrans have MULEs,which after watching Greenforest last night and seeing 3 of qxc's MULEs outperform 34 of iNKA's probes, that pretty much propeled them to Zerg's level of economy if not just under it in my opinion which makes the Protoss situation even harder based on the fact that our basic units cost so much along with the build times for buildings,research times,and the costs of affording all that while managing a steady army or having an army to counter a Terran plus spreading our chrono boost out to speed our research and unit production up is damn near impossible because of how cheap their low tier army is and how cheap their low tier upgrades(most of their upgrades in general) are such as Combat shield,Concussive shells,Stimpack,etc.Where are all the little upgrades for low tier units on Protoss? How do we counter an early game Stimpack/Concussive shell micro? Marauders dominate Zealots with the shells and they dominate Stalkers after they kite your Zealots to death. The best thing we have is a Sentry to force field behind them which if you dont completely block them off they'll just run right around back to their base to be healed and costs 100 vespene gas taking away from the ability to get more Stalkers to even possibly range Marauders and Marines. Not to mention Marines have ridiculously good DPS.


This a joke? PvT if anything is imbalanced in favor of P outside of the ghost/no HT window.

How is it imbalanced in favor of Protoss? Explain. Collossi are countered by super-range Vikings and with the Mech support range that Terran usually brings around its bio ball and ghosts you cant directly push. High Templars are great and all but they wont save you from the supreme range of the mech and the constant medivac healing/scv repairing that terran usually encompasses within its army. Immortals are powerful yes but when they get focus fired they go down quick. Void Rays are OP in numbers and UP in smaller numbers. The whole charging up thing is a bad idea and doesnt fit into RTS play at all. Just make the Void ray a regular damn piece of aircraft and make its damage stay at the same level instead of raising overtime that it's charging.


High Templar make the difference, favouring Protoss. The playing field is equal for both toss and terran until HT enter the field.


cough ghosts cough
_Air_
Profile Joined December 2008
United States146 Posts
August 17 2010 01:36 GMT
#874
On August 17 2010 08:40 Gauldoth wrote:
I think zerg need to start thinking out of the box, in a really basic level protoss are supposed to have the strongest units, but also a high cost on each of them, Terran is supposed to be balanced in between, not that strong of units and not that expensive but not that weak either and zerg are supposed to have weaker units than the rest, they are supposed to relay on numbers and mobility.

But there are a number of factors that can modify this and btw I think are not being taken into consideration. Maps is a big example of that, i remember 2008/2009 in BW protoss completely dominating with the so called 7 protoss dragons and some part of it was the protoss slightly favored maps back then. I mean look at the map pool right now, as a zerg you need to pray to play on crap station (yea i said crap) and metalopolis maybe, considering i dont see too many torneys using desert oasis. Maybe now delta cuadrant could add to the zerg maps, i havent played it much but i have that feeling that tells me its a zerg map

Also ppl say that zergs are doing bad in all servers and well, a big part of that is even at the beta there were not so many zerg players to begin with, even back then the mayority were terran so its kind of obvius terran is gonna develop sooner in any way possible.

Dont get me wrong, im not saying ZvT is totally balanced, maybe it needs some small changes but to be honest im not a follower of DIMAGA because i didnt like his style of play with the zerg neither back then in the beta nor now, in fact i think i like TLO zerg play better, i mean zergling/baneling(optional)/infestor into ultralisk or broodlord against Terran i liked a lot.

zerg can instantly have 3 larva to use every 2 minutes and they STACK that means that in a 50 vs 50 food against every race if you've been active with your queens you can lose everything and have it back instantly, they have nidus network and OL as transports and movement speed increased on creep and several ways to spread the creep on the map which makes it the most movile race by far, they only use 1 structure to build units, you can actually have every tech building and choose what to do acording to what your opponent does (assuming you have the economy to support it of course) but it is also something bad because you have to choose between workers and units, they have the easiest way to scout, have map control and control of xel naga towers (OLs and zerglings)

Anyway, botton line.. try thinking maybe there is something you havent tried in those match ups, maybe you can do something diffent even at a pro level, maybe you will all see something you havent seen before


Dude.


You realize your saying that the pros who play zerg and cannot consistently win, which then puts their job on the line and in turn forces them to learn a new race, are probably just playing their race wrong and try out new ideas such as abusing mobility?.


I hope your kidding because their is a legitimate problem with ZvT.
checo
Profile Joined November 2008
Mexico1364 Posts
August 17 2010 01:38 GMT
#875
On August 17 2010 09:31 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 08:50 Fizbin wrote:
to everyone who is hating on dimaga for this statement get a grip. he NEEDS results. and if terran is a way to do that for him he has EVERY RIGHT TO DO IT. and to anyone who says he sucks..... more likely u suck. dimaga is one of the best players in the entire world. and you will never be as good as him.

nuff said

So he's won two go4sc2s out of 4 since the beta ended, and finished top 4 in a couple of other tournaments.......

How is this not results -.-?

I'm mostly annoyed at these complaints because dimaga has owned me since the beta started (0-2 zotac, 0-1 zotac, 0-1 go4sc2, 0-2 razer domination, 1-2 craftcup, 0-1 go4sc2, 1-2 go4sc2 - these are the ones I remember, might be more - he went on to win or finish 2nd in most of these).


Perhaps sponsors wnat him to win everything = /, i agree dimaga hasn't been on a big lossing streak or with bad results, but if he wants to try the switch good for him hope he does well and makes the sponsors happy XD
El amor no mueve al mundo, ni hace brillar el sol, pero el amor hace latir este corazon....
-Desu-
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Turkey173 Posts
August 17 2010 01:45 GMT
#876
On August 17 2010 02:06 Zurope wrote:
I respect Dimaga, as his an elite player compared to me. But seriously, to go out and cry about how "overpowered" Terran is, and how Zerg is "underpowered". Last time I checked ultras/broods were not "underpowered".


Last time I checked, bringing directly tier 3 units with ignoring early-mid game entirely, as a proof of balance,,, was dumb.
Ftrunkz
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Australia2474 Posts
August 17 2010 01:49 GMT
#877
On August 17 2010 09:58 st3roids wrote:
Every pro has his agenta.

terran ones obviously will claim all is good , toss may cry a bit about tvp and also claim pvz is balance

Zerg ones cry for both , which is true u cant rly know for sure unless you work for blizzard.

imo zerg early game and scouting is rly messed up and needs tweaking.

when one race is saying "all is well" and the other two are screaming "that race is bullshit" its pretty obvious whats going on...
@NvPinder on twitter | Member of Gamecom Nv | http://www.clan-ta.com | http://www.youtube.com/user/ftrunkz | http://www.twitchtv.com/xghpinder
st3roids
Profile Joined June 2010
Greece538 Posts
August 17 2010 01:55 GMT
#878
On August 17 2010 10:49 Ftrunkz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 09:58 st3roids wrote:
Every pro has his agenta.

terran ones obviously will claim all is good , toss may cry a bit about tvp and also claim pvz is balance

Zerg ones cry for both , which is true u cant rly know for sure unless you work for blizzard.

imo zerg early game and scouting is rly messed up and needs tweaking.

when one race is saying "all is well" and the other two are screaming "that race is bullshit" its pretty obvious whats going on...



Sadly blizzard dont plan to fix much from their latest statements.

maybe is all pro switch to terran , just maybe .
-Desu-
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Turkey173 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-17 01:58:56
August 17 2010 01:57 GMT
#879
On August 17 2010 10:49 Ftrunkz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 09:58 st3roids wrote:
Every pro has his agenta.

terran ones obviously will claim all is good , toss may cry a bit about tvp and also claim pvz is balance

Zerg ones cry for both , which is true u cant rly know for sure unless you work for blizzard.

imo zerg early game and scouting is rly messed up and needs tweaking.

when one race is saying "all is well" and the other two are screaming "that race is bullshit" its pretty obvious whats going on...


agreed. but you can understand players who just started the game with no RTS history and owning without a little bit frustration and effort, will want everything same and untouched right? Ofc, they will deny. Ofc, they will ignore. Ofc, they will.. since it's winning, since it's the rush of blood we feel after each win...since we are humans...
checo
Profile Joined November 2008
Mexico1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-17 01:59:15
August 17 2010 01:58 GMT
#880
On August 17 2010 10:49 Ftrunkz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 09:58 st3roids wrote:
Every pro has his agenta.

terran ones obviously will claim all is good , toss may cry a bit about tvp and also claim pvz is balance

Zerg ones cry for both , which is true u cant rly know for sure unless you work for blizzard.

imo zerg early game and scouting is rly messed up and needs tweaking.

when one race is saying "all is well" and the other two are screaming "that race is bullshit" its pretty obvious whats going on...


Yea they trying to get the other race nerf caus ethey don't have skill.... i get it...

Come on, if 4k Terrans start QQ, VRs that when charged are almost unstopable unless you have way more units right there and micro them well are OP, HT that can make a bloody mess of a bioball or Feedback to dead medivacs for 50 energy are OP or Banelings that can blow up while burrow way before any mobile detection are OP, Corruptors (that eat vikings alive) broodlords that destroy anyground are OP... Then it would be obvious that Z and P are OP??????

Tell me plz... so i can start telling T players to start QQ all over the place
El amor no mueve al mundo, ni hace brillar el sol, pero el amor hace latir este corazon....
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