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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
On August 17 2010 01:26 Liquid`Jinro wrote: SjoW is probably the 2nd best T in sweden (behind MorroW). Tho I don't really know what his TvZ is like, and I think he told me its his worst if my memory is correct. Well it still holds true since dimaga is probably the best zerg in europe. | ||
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Tritonus
Denmark125 Posts
On August 17 2010 06:09 Zato-1 wrote: This one makes a lot of sense. I haven't ever played against Terran in LT, but I can see the potential of that ledge plus tanks. Kulas, I don't quite agree. As Protoss at least, I've also been able to abuse the cliffs to harass the Terran right back, and there's so much space for me to expand to that granting Terrans control of a small chunk of the map isn't game breaking, IMO. As to Delta Quadrant, I've never played there, so nothing I can say. Yes. As P. Have you ever been reaper rushed (and I'm talking LZgamer style 3 rax with 5-10-15 reapers) as Z on Kulas ravine? It's an absolute nightmare. If you manage to survive long enough for the the other units to arrive, you wake up and realize that the reaper rush was just a dream within the nightmare that has just begun. | ||
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Gauldoth
Argentina4 Posts
But there are a number of factors that can modify this and btw I think are not being taken into consideration. Maps is a big example of that, i remember 2008/2009 in BW protoss completely dominating with the so called 7 protoss dragons and some part of it was the protoss slightly favored maps back then. I mean look at the map pool right now, as a zerg you need to pray to play on crap station (yea i said crap) and metalopolis maybe, considering i dont see too many torneys using desert oasis. Maybe now delta cuadrant could add to the zerg maps, i havent played it much but i have that feeling that tells me its a zerg map  Also ppl say that zergs are doing bad in all servers and well, a big part of that is even at the beta there were not so many zerg players to begin with, even back then the mayority were terran so its kind of obvius terran is gonna develop sooner in any way possible. Dont get me wrong, im not saying ZvT is totally balanced, maybe it needs some small changes but to be honest im not a follower of DIMAGA because i didnt like his style of play with the zerg neither back then in the beta nor now, in fact i think i like TLO zerg play better, i mean zergling/baneling(optional)/infestor into ultralisk or broodlord against Terran i liked a lot. zerg can instantly have 3 larva to use every 2 minutes and they STACK that means that in a 50 vs 50 food against every race if you've been active with your queens you can lose everything and have it back instantly, they have nidus network and OL as transports and movement speed increased on creep and several ways to spread the creep on the map which makes it the most movile race by far, they only use 1 structure to build units, you can actually have every tech building and choose what to do acording to what your opponent does (assuming you have the economy to support it of course) but it is also something bad because you have to choose between workers and units, they have the easiest way to scout, have map control and control of xel naga towers (OLs and zerglings) Anyway, botton line.. try thinking maybe there is something you havent tried in those match ups, maybe you can do something diffent even at a pro level, maybe you will all see something you havent seen before  | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
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Keap
United States214 Posts
"Well, I'm not saying zerg players suck, or saying terran is fine, I'm just saying it's up to you guys to pull a new strategy out of your asses to counter the 'imbalance'" You kids don't think Dimaga, Idra, Seth, and Machine tried everything hundreds of times before reaching their conclusion? | ||
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Fizbin
Canada202 Posts
nuff said | ||
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Gauldoth
Argentina4 Posts
On August 17 2010 08:46 Keap wrote: Anyone else noticed every T's response is exactly the same? "Well, I'm not saying zerg players suck, or saying terran is fine, I'm just saying it's up to you guys to pull a new strategy out of your asses to counter the 'imbalance'" You kids don't think Dimaga, Idra, Seth, and Machine tried everything hundreds of times before reaching their conclusion? I, actually, dont.. how much time did it take to korean pro gamers to develop strategies? they've been playing SCBW for more than 10 years, always evolving and you are telling me that idra has it all figured out in 2 weeks? seriusly come on. I understand DIMAGA tho in his decition to switch races, he has to be better because its his job, if zerg isnt working then something else should be but that doesnt imply terran are OP or zerg are weak. | ||
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
some openings like banker reaper rush vs zerg need xtreme apm and multitasking and cannot be performed by mid diamond and lower , you need pro lvls for that | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 17 2010 08:50 Fizbin wrote: to everyone who is hating on dimaga for this statement get a grip. he NEEDS results. and if terran is a way to do that for him he has EVERY RIGHT TO DO IT. and to anyone who says he sucks..... more likely u suck. dimaga is one of the best players in the entire world. and you will never be as good as him. nuff said So he's won two (Edit: my bad, three) go4sc2s out of 4 (edit: 6) since the beta ended, and finished top 4 in a couple of other tournaments....... How is this not results -.-? I'm mostly annoyed at these complaints because dimaga has owned me since the beta started  (0-2 zotac, 0-1 zotac, 0-1 go4sc2, 0-2 razer domination, 1-2 craftcup, 0-1 go4sc2, 1-2 go4sc2 - these are the ones I remember, might be more - he went on to win or finish 2nd in most of these). | ||
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Fluxx
Netherlands58 Posts
On August 17 2010 02:21 jlr5175 wrote: How is it imbalanced in favor of Protoss? Explain. Collossi are countered by super-range Vikings and with the Mech support range that Terran usually brings around its bio ball and ghosts you cant directly push. High Templars are great and all but they wont save you from the supreme range of the mech and the constant medivac healing/scv repairing that terran usually encompasses within its army. Immortals are powerful yes but when they get focus fired they go down quick. Void Rays are OP in numbers and UP in smaller numbers. The whole charging up thing is a bad idea and doesnt fit into RTS play at all. Just make the Void ray a regular damn piece of aircraft and make its damage stay at the same level instead of raising overtime that it's charging. High Templar make the difference, favouring Protoss. The playing field is equal for both toss and terran until HT enter the field. | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3981 Posts
BW came out in 1998, and the last balance patch, 1.08, in 2000 or 2001? That's 9 years ago, and in those 9 years there have been multiple times of dominance from each race, without any balance changes! Sure, the maps are far better now, but a lot comes from playing styles as well. Boxer, Oov Nada, Bisu, Stork, Savior, Jaedong, July, have all been at the very top of BW without any balance changes being made in between. I actually think this is more of a cry for help then a good plan from Dimaga...I hope they maybe buff Z slightly in the patch, but not a great deal, and wait for further results. | ||
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
terran ones obviously will claim all is good , toss may cry a bit about tvp and also claim pvz is balance Zerg ones cry for both , which is true u cant rly know for sure unless you work for blizzard. imo zerg early game and scouting is rly messed up and needs tweaking. | ||
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chekthehek
United States279 Posts
On August 17 2010 09:33 Fluxx wrote: High Templar make the difference, favouring Protoss. The playing field is equal for both toss and terran until HT enter the field. cough ghosts cough | ||
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_Air_
United States146 Posts
On August 17 2010 08:40 Gauldoth wrote: I think zerg need to start thinking out of the box, in a really basic level protoss are supposed to have the strongest units, but also a high cost on each of them, Terran is supposed to be balanced in between, not that strong of units and not that expensive but not that weak either and zerg are supposed to have weaker units than the rest, they are supposed to relay on numbers and mobility. But there are a number of factors that can modify this and btw I think are not being taken into consideration. Maps is a big example of that, i remember 2008/2009 in BW protoss completely dominating with the so called 7 protoss dragons and some part of it was the protoss slightly favored maps back then. I mean look at the map pool right now, as a zerg you need to pray to play on crap station (yea i said crap) and metalopolis maybe, considering i dont see too many torneys using desert oasis. Maybe now delta cuadrant could add to the zerg maps, i havent played it much but i have that feeling that tells me its a zerg map Also ppl say that zergs are doing bad in all servers and well, a big part of that is even at the beta there were not so many zerg players to begin with, even back then the mayority were terran so its kind of obvius terran is gonna develop sooner in any way possible. Dont get me wrong, im not saying ZvT is totally balanced, maybe it needs some small changes but to be honest im not a follower of DIMAGA because i didnt like his style of play with the zerg neither back then in the beta nor now, in fact i think i like TLO zerg play better, i mean zergling/baneling(optional)/infestor into ultralisk or broodlord against Terran i liked a lot. zerg can instantly have 3 larva to use every 2 minutes and they STACK that means that in a 50 vs 50 food against every race if you've been active with your queens you can lose everything and have it back instantly, they have nidus network and OL as transports and movement speed increased on creep and several ways to spread the creep on the map which makes it the most movile race by far, they only use 1 structure to build units, you can actually have every tech building and choose what to do acording to what your opponent does (assuming you have the economy to support it of course) but it is also something bad because you have to choose between workers and units, they have the easiest way to scout, have map control and control of xel naga towers (OLs and zerglings) Anyway, botton line.. try thinking maybe there is something you havent tried in those match ups, maybe you can do something diffent even at a pro level, maybe you will all see something you havent seen before Dude. You realize your saying that the pros who play zerg and cannot consistently win, which then puts their job on the line and in turn forces them to learn a new race, are probably just playing their race wrong and try out new ideas such as abusing mobility?. I hope your kidding because their is a legitimate problem with ZvT. | ||
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
On August 17 2010 09:31 Liquid`Jinro wrote: So he's won two go4sc2s out of 4 since the beta ended, and finished top 4 in a couple of other tournaments....... How is this not results -.-? I'm mostly annoyed at these complaints because dimaga has owned me since the beta started (0-2 zotac, 0-1 zotac, 0-1 go4sc2, 0-2 razer domination, 1-2 craftcup, 0-1 go4sc2, 1-2 go4sc2 - these are the ones I remember, might be more - he went on to win or finish 2nd in most of these).Perhaps sponsors wnat him to win everything = /, i agree dimaga hasn't been on a big lossing streak or with bad results, but if he wants to try the switch good for him hope he does well and makes the sponsors happy XD | ||
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-Desu-
Turkey173 Posts
On August 17 2010 02:06 Zurope wrote: I respect Dimaga, as his an elite player compared to me. But seriously, to go out and cry about how "overpowered" Terran is, and how Zerg is "underpowered". Last time I checked ultras/broods were not "underpowered". Last time I checked, bringing directly tier 3 units with ignoring early-mid game entirely, as a proof of balance,,, was dumb. | ||
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Ftrunkz
Australia2474 Posts
On August 17 2010 09:58 st3roids wrote: Every pro has his agenta. terran ones obviously will claim all is good , toss may cry a bit about tvp and also claim pvz is balance Zerg ones cry for both , which is true u cant rly know for sure unless you work for blizzard. imo zerg early game and scouting is rly messed up and needs tweaking. when one race is saying "all is well" and the other two are screaming "that race is bullshit" its pretty obvious whats going on... | ||
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
On August 17 2010 10:49 Ftrunkz wrote: when one race is saying "all is well" and the other two are screaming "that race is bullshit" its pretty obvious whats going on... Sadly blizzard dont plan to fix much from their latest statements. maybe is all pro switch to terran , just maybe . | ||
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-Desu-
Turkey173 Posts
On August 17 2010 10:49 Ftrunkz wrote: when one race is saying "all is well" and the other two are screaming "that race is bullshit" its pretty obvious whats going on... agreed. but you can understand players who just started the game with no RTS history and owning without a little bit frustration and effort, will want everything same and untouched right? Ofc, they will deny. Ofc, they will ignore. Ofc, they will.. since it's winning, since it's the rush of blood we feel after each win...since we are humans... | ||
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
On August 17 2010 10:49 Ftrunkz wrote: when one race is saying "all is well" and the other two are screaming "that race is bullshit" its pretty obvious whats going on... Yea they trying to get the other race nerf caus ethey don't have skill.... i get it... Come on, if 4k Terrans start QQ, VRs that when charged are almost unstopable unless you have way more units right there and micro them well are OP, HT that can make a bloody mess of a bioball or Feedback to dead medivacs for 50 energy are OP or Banelings that can blow up while burrow way before any mobile detection are OP, Corruptors (that eat vikings alive) broodlords that destroy anyground are OP... Then it would be obvious that Z and P are OP?????? Tell me plz... so i can start telling T players to start QQ all over the place | ||
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