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Dimaga may switch to Terran - Page 22

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
August 15 2010 00:08 GMT
#421
On August 15 2010 09:01 NicolBolas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2010 08:57 Zanez.smarty wrote:
On August 15 2010 08:41 Sky.Technique wrote:
btw, am i the only one thinking that they need to up the range on the roach ?? im thinking changing it to 4 or 5 with 1 armor increase would help so much with balance...


I sure hope you are the only one... because, I don't think you understand exactly how much that would DESTROY ZvP Balance.
I am worried that the irrational dislike for the TvZ mu is going to lead to some balance issues that will DESTROY the balance of PvZ and PvT. If Terran get nerfed against Zerg, it will affect their play against Protoss. If Zerg get buffed against Terran it will affect their play against Protoss.


This is why balance patches don't and shouldn't come out willy-nilly.


They sure seemed to during the beta.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Kolvacs
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1203 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-15 00:09:30
August 15 2010 00:08 GMT
#422
On August 15 2010 09:03 Kare wrote:
If he wants to switch race, let him switch race... who cares? Its his choice.


On August 15 2010 09:08 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2010 09:01 NicolBolas wrote:
On August 15 2010 08:57 Zanez.smarty wrote:
On August 15 2010 08:41 Sky.Technique wrote:
btw, am i the only one thinking that they need to up the range on the roach ?? im thinking changing it to 4 or 5 with 1 armor increase would help so much with balance...


I sure hope you are the only one... because, I don't think you understand exactly how much that would DESTROY ZvP Balance.
I am worried that the irrational dislike for the TvZ mu is going to lead to some balance issues that will DESTROY the balance of PvZ and PvT. If Terran get nerfed against Zerg, it will affect their play against Protoss. If Zerg get buffed against Terran it will affect their play against Protoss.


This is why balance patches don't and shouldn't come out willy-nilly.


They sure seemed to during the beta.


No duh, it was the beta?
zimz
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States510 Posts
August 15 2010 00:10 GMT
#423
change marauder and marine damage lower or make there build time longer or make marauder n marines have less hp.
zimz
Scrubwave
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland1786 Posts
August 15 2010 00:10 GMT
#424
--- Nuked ---
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
August 15 2010 00:11 GMT
#425
On August 15 2010 09:10 zimz wrote:
change marauder and marine damage lower or make there build time longer or make marauder n marines have less hp.


or just make balanced maps instead of cliffs and narrow corridors all over the place. terran is fine, maps are not.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
August 15 2010 00:13 GMT
#426
On August 15 2010 09:08 Kolvacs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2010 09:03 Kare wrote:
If he wants to switch race, let him switch race... who cares? Its his choice.


Show nested quote +
On August 15 2010 09:08 Mindcrime wrote:
On August 15 2010 09:01 NicolBolas wrote:
On August 15 2010 08:57 Zanez.smarty wrote:
On August 15 2010 08:41 Sky.Technique wrote:
btw, am i the only one thinking that they need to up the range on the roach ?? im thinking changing it to 4 or 5 with 1 armor increase would help so much with balance...


I sure hope you are the only one... because, I don't think you understand exactly how much that would DESTROY ZvP Balance.
I am worried that the irrational dislike for the TvZ mu is going to lead to some balance issues that will DESTROY the balance of PvZ and PvT. If Terran get nerfed against Zerg, it will affect their play against Protoss. If Zerg get buffed against Terran it will affect their play against Protoss.


This is why balance patches don't and shouldn't come out willy-nilly.


They sure seemed to during the beta.


No duh, it was the beta?


so?
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Ouga
Profile Joined March 2008
Finland645 Posts
August 15 2010 00:14 GMT
#427
On August 15 2010 09:05 Chriamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2010 09:01 Malgrif wrote:
doesn't dimaga baneling bust every game? guess people figured out how to counter him o.o so now his allin only works sometimes

Thats so 4 months ago. Watch some of his ladder games. I've seen him start a game on Delta Quadrant vs a T with a 16 hatch 15 pool.

EDIT: Also, I think its a bluff, he might change T for a little, but he'll still practice Z, and switch right back as soon as the first patch comes out.


4 months ago is more like when I took him as primary zerg idol after seeing loads of creative strategies for first time. It's such utter crap for anyone to call him cheap abuser just because he played some cups with allins when he has been the most revolutionary zerg player throughout the beta IMO. While being like top100 euro player myself, after watching 5 dimaga reps in ~may I found out about like 5ish new strats that I hadn't heard of before. So if relatively good player can at once find out about loads of new strategies, guy definately has earned the respect.
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
August 15 2010 00:16 GMT
#428
Yay now all the Z's will switch to T. Then I'll get to practice my ZvT more, then when it's Z gets buffed I'll have a massive advantage. Perseverance win.
Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
Sky.Technique
Profile Joined March 2010
United States271 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-15 00:17:10
August 15 2010 00:16 GMT
#429
they put hydras at tier 2 bcuz at early beta phase 1 (like the very beginning) players would go one hatch hydra, so as terran or protoss, u had to defend possibly like 10 hydras very eraly in the game, or they could have just used the larva for drdones. it was very hard early game for t and p

just like now, T has all options and zerg must scout right basically, but i have faith in blizzzard.....i mean they did wonders with b.net2.0 right?..oh.....
iCCup account: 20_E.Reed play me :)
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
August 15 2010 00:18 GMT
#430
On August 15 2010 09:16 Sky.Technique wrote:
they put hydras at tier 2 bcuz at early beta phase 1 (like the very beginning) players would go one hatch hydra, so as terran or protoss, u had to defend possibly like 10 hydras very eraly in the game, or they could have just used the larva for drdones. it was very hard early game for t and p

just like now, T has all options and zerg must scout right basically, but i have faith in blizzzard.....i mean they did wonders with b.net2.0 right?..oh.....

They should tone them down, make them closer to bw hydras
f0rk
Profile Joined March 2010
England172 Posts
August 15 2010 00:21 GMT
#431
On August 15 2010 09:01 NicolBolas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2010 08:57 Zanez.smarty wrote:
On August 15 2010 08:41 Sky.Technique wrote:
btw, am i the only one thinking that they need to up the range on the roach ?? im thinking changing it to 4 or 5 with 1 armor increase would help so much with balance...


I sure hope you are the only one... because, I don't think you understand exactly how much that would DESTROY ZvP Balance.
I am worried that the irrational dislike for the TvZ mu is going to lead to some balance issues that will DESTROY the balance of PvZ and PvT. If Terran get nerfed against Zerg, it will affect their play against Protoss. If Zerg get buffed against Terran it will affect their play against Protoss.


This is why balance patches don't and shouldn't come out willy-nilly. Blizzard seriously needs to take their time with this, both to ensure that there is a problem and to correct it without breaking other things. TvZ doesn't exist in a vacuum.


I agree, but at the same time they need to be talking to the top players about what they are doing, and not base it all on their stats. They clearly isn't much communication if dimaga is considering this switch.

I also don't think you can mess with numbers too much without fucking up other match ups and game stages, for example 1 supply roach is ok early game but late game is really dumb.
I think t1 infestors would be very interesting, gives zerg more options to open with and balances itself by having high gas cost so you are limited with banelings/roaches early.
Antpile
Profile Joined March 2009
United States213 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-15 00:23:23
August 15 2010 00:21 GMT
#432
On August 15 2010 04:20 Brad wrote:
So lets say DIMAGA practices Terran for the next 6 months, and then Terran gets nerfed. Where is he then? Playing a race because of balance in a game environment where it's going to change monthly is ridiculous.


This just assumes that they will over nerf Terran and he will be stuck with the "suck race" again. However, this is VERY unlikely.

Most likely scenario: they balance zerg out and maybe nerf Terran a bit so it is a fair game. He is not in a bad position now as he is good with a race that is now balanced and fair so he is still in a better position than he is now.

From a pro gamer standpoint, it is very logical to switch to T. You will have better success now while T is strong and when they get nerfed that will only bring you down to being on even footing with your opponents. Why wouldn't pro gamers be switching right now?
biarecare
Profile Joined July 2010
United States76 Posts
August 15 2010 00:21 GMT
#433
and when Blizzard nerfs Terran, Dimaga will lose all his fans.
Orange Goblin
Profile Joined May 2010
218 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-15 00:23:23
August 15 2010 00:22 GMT
#434
I'm pretty sure T1 Hydras are out of the question. That won't make any sense at all. Everyone will start one-basing Hydras and roflstomp every other build. It could be balanced out with higher gas costs, maybe, but still. What does P/T have early on that can compete with fast Hydras?

Buffing the Roach is also hard imho. Also, I'm not even sure it would make that much of a difference.

I think everyone can agree that the way Z functions early game right now is just silly. People are talking about ridiculous things like nydus. Guess what, that's late game, chum, that's not the problem.

Is it ridiculously imbalanced? Not really, but the problem is that you need to have perfect micro if you're going to defend two-basing against a good player. One-basing is basically the same as an very early push.

As Z vs anyone skilled, you simply haven't got any way to force plays. Why does everyone (except the Z players) think it's OK that one race always have to play solely reactively, and not be able to be aggressive? Being aggressive as Z early game is going all-in, while P and T have no problems transitioning into whatever they goddamn please after being aggressive.

Why is that OK? Why are you afraid of giving Z options early game? Afraid you actually have to do some micro for a change?

This isn't really about buffing Z as a whole. It's about giving Z a similar bag of tricks at skill levels where things aren't about luck (the very top few players in the ladder right now, don't even bother saying just "diamond", people in diamond aren't that good). People using ladder statistics aren't really understanding the problem. Those few players won't show up on those statistics. Scrub players will be able to win with Z just fine. But even so, they will have the same limited options as the good players early game, and while this isn't going to be a huge issue (at least not for a while), it's still a bit boring to play, because they will still have to mostly be the reactive player.
Carnagath
Profile Joined July 2010
230 Posts
August 15 2010 00:23 GMT
#435
On August 15 2010 04:35 AcOrP wrote:
Laddering korean zergs can have good results but as it is right now. You can lose ZvT vs alot less skilled terran. You can ask IdrA how it feel to know you have advantage the whole game map control crazy macro to play perfectly and still lose. Becouse terram is OP. I feel sorry that so many great zerg players switched to T... Whenever Blizzard patch and balance things out many wont bother to switch back to zerg as it will require time and practice...I wish we had 2-3 month longer beta and perfect balance between the races than this...


Idra is an idiot, he wants the game to play itself while he stands around spreading creep and scratching his balls, he can't 1base, always FE's and loses to cliff tanks or similar ridiculous things and then trashtalks people. The one time he sat his ass down and studied his opponents and actually played like an intelligent human and not a macro bot he destroyed everything. Check is doing phenomenal. Dimaga is occasionally flawless but unfortunately not stable as a player, sometimes he sucks. I'm sick of this Zerg QQ of idiots who want to play defensively vs Terran and then have to inevitably face the mech ball with food limit of units that are not meant for that. Madfrog seems to have the playstyle down and played some amazing games. The game is new (yes, that includes the beta) and strategies are still being mapped, how about be patient and perfect your own play... Or you can QQ some more, whatever rocks your boat.


User was temp banned for this post.
"If you can chill, chill". -Tyler
Orange Goblin
Profile Joined May 2010
218 Posts
August 15 2010 00:26 GMT
#436
On August 15 2010 09:23 Carnagath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2010 04:35 AcOrP wrote:
Laddering korean zergs can have good results but as it is right now. You can lose ZvT vs alot less skilled terran. You can ask IdrA how it feel to know you have advantage the whole game map control crazy macro to play perfectly and still lose. Becouse terram is OP. I feel sorry that so many great zerg players switched to T... Whenever Blizzard patch and balance things out many wont bother to switch back to zerg as it will require time and practice...I wish we had 2-3 month longer beta and perfect balance between the races than this...


Idra is an idiot, he wants the game to play itself while he stands around spreading creep and scratching his balls, he can't 1base, always FE's and loses to cliff tanks or similar ridiculous things and then trashtalks people. The one time he sat his ass down and studied his opponents and actually played like an intelligent human and not a macro bot he destroyed everything. Check is doing phenomenal. Dimaga is occasionally flawless but unfortunately not stable as a player, sometimes he sucks. I'm sick of this Zerg QQ of idiots who want to play defensively vs Terran and then have to inevitably face the mech ball with food limit of units that are not meant for that. Madfrog seems to have the playstyle down and played some amazing games. The game is new (yes, that includes the beta) and strategies are still being mapped, how about be patient and perfect your own play... Or you can QQ some more, whatever rocks your boat.


Have you even watched a game by Idra?

He one-bases all the time against Koreans.
nitdkim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1264 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-15 00:28:14
August 15 2010 00:27 GMT
#437
SC2 is going to turn out like WC3... race change after every patch... blizzard really needs some solid balancing or a revamp of the game mechanics... no more inhouse balancing with the nubs in the blizzard house lol.

Zerglings need wings!!!
PM me if you want random korean images translated.
Nickgazord
Profile Joined June 2010
United States64 Posts
August 15 2010 00:29 GMT
#438
I'm hoping they change something cause even i'm seriously considering switching from zerg to maybe protoss. I just feel so weak when i play as a zerg and im tired of having to react to every little thing that the other races do so that i can survive long enough to get out brood lords or ultras of course it just might be because im bad but meh. hope Dimaga stays zerg because zergs are fun to watch
"i dont think any amount of nerves will make someone scout with a Zealot" JP
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
August 15 2010 00:32 GMT
#439
On August 15 2010 09:27 nitdkim wrote:
Zerglings need wings!!!


I hate to break it to you but
:)
Meff
Profile Joined June 2010
Italy287 Posts
August 15 2010 00:34 GMT
#440
On August 15 2010 08:37 Traveler wrote:
Nope, simply an entering college freshman with two formulas to his name already (approximating factorials backwards, even without the need for integer factorials), I simply like mathematics.

Oh, a colleague (or at least, a future one). In that case, let me explain the problem with a little more depth.

Let's take for a moment the fuzzy definition of "overpowered" to be, "something leading to victories that do not reflect skill levels". This is a definition that links performance with skill level.
Now, the problem is that the statistics you have are all about performance; none of them tells you about skill level. Somebody could be able to get a 63% win ratio against top-level opponents because they're as dumb as a pet rock, but are playing an overpowered race or they could even get that same ratio because they're a Starcraft 2 god who is playing a completely underpowered race.
Now, is it reasonable to assume an even distribution of skill between the various races? No, not really. There could be a race selection bias relative to level of skill or it could even be that playing an underpowered race for a while gives better training than playing an overpowered one.
Anyways, there are a lot of people on here that a proclaiming that zerg is imbalanced when they have no proof of imbalance, simply a lot of the "mass hysteria syndrome" that is fueling the economic situation. People say zerg is bad, then people don't play zerg because they believe it is bad, and thus you get a spirally race proportion.

However, race popularity has little to do with race balance - for good or for ill.
Anyways, I watch a ton of zerg and I even play zerg, and I see a lot of people simply not utilizing some of the better capabilities of zerg anymore, like nydus's drops and abusing the mobility

I'm afraid that this is not really constructive, as it doesn't suggest a scenario in which to use drops. "Abusing the mobility" is not even a well-defined strategy, for that matter. Be more specific and post replays of popular T builds defeated in this way.
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