This thread used to list the "Unlisted Patch Balance Changes" from the previous patch 16. But in Patch 17, as you probably know, Blizz undid some of these Unlisted Changes.
Many of the following bug fixes were intended for internal testing only, and are now being reverted.
250mm Strike Cannons can no longer deal damage to hidden targets.
Barracks build time decreased from 65 to 60 seconds.
Bunker build time decreased from 40 to 30 seconds.
Canceling morphing Banelings now returns 75% of the cost like other morphing Zerg units.
Hellion range reverted from 6 to 5.
Reaper build time decreased from 45 to 40 seconds.
Zealot build time decreased from 38 to 33 seconds.
However there were many, many more Unlisted Balance Changes that were not addressed in the notes, nor within the game. Here they are, I confirmed these myself:
Blue changes seem likely to be intended for internal purposes only, and should probably be reverted Greenchanges are likely intended to remain in the game, but have yet to appear in any patch notes Redchanges are changes they DID revert back in this patch, but were not listed in the notes
Unlisted Balance Changes that still were not reverted in the latest Patch 17, and yet seem likely to be intended for internal testing only, and should probably be reverted:
Neural Parasite lasts about 12-ish in-game seconds. Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17
It's easier to completely trap units in Force Fields. IMO it's pretty stupid to completely take units out of the battle so easily with a 50 energy, low tech spammable spell, especially with roaches being unable to burrow underneath. All of the units shown in the wireframe panel are completely stuck by Force Fields: Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17
Creep Tumors take 30 seconds before it can create another Creep Tumor, up from 15. Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17. Almost certainly not intended, the tooltip says the Cooldown is still 15
If you select a reactor barracks + tech lab barracks, they fit in the same tab, but before it separated them into 2 tabs. Then if u wanted to build from reactor barracks you had to tab and from tech lab tab back etc. So now since it selects both in the same tab, if you build a marauder, the tech lab builds it; and if you build a marine, reactor builds it. If you build 3 marines, it makes 2 in reactor and 1 in tech lab, if you build marine, marauder, marine it makes 2 in reactor and 1 in tech.
On July 09 2010 04:25 DeMusliM wrote: the new terran macro is very annoying. 3 rax, 2 with techlabs 1 reactor - if i press AA for marines, my reactor takes up 1, and my techlab also 1... If it worked properly sure - but it's annoying right now, bring back tabs.
To avoid this problem DeMusliM's describing, you'd have to put Reactor structures and Tech Lab structures on different hotkeys. Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17. intended?
There is now a 1 second cooldown for Transfusion from the Queen. (may not sound significant, but you'd be surprised how rapidly you often want to cast it) Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17
Unlisted Balance Changes that were not reverted in the latest Patch 17, and also seem likely to be intended to be real patch changes:
Psi storm cooldown decreased from 2.5 seconds to 2 seconds. Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17, clearly an intentional change. (tooltip is correctly updated)
Infested Terrans lasts 30 seconds (up from 20). Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17, clearly an intentional change, as the tooltip has also been updated
Infested Terran spell can now be cast while Infestor is Burrowed. Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17, clearly an intentional change. (ability button appears while burrowed)
Hallucinated Colossi no longer break force fields. Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17, most likely an intentional change
Ultras get +2 and +2 vs armored per upgrade, instead of +3 vs armored per upgrade. Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17, clearly an intentional change.
Morphing Warpgate to Gateway now takes 10 seconds, instead of 3. The warp-in cooldown is paused when its not in warpgate form. In other words, that old bug is no longer abuseable, to produce units a little faster. Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17, most likely an intentional change
Cybernetics Core now has a research animation. Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17, clearly an intentional change
Stalkers can no longer blink up cliffs blocked by rocks without vision, nor are they able to blink across unpassable terrain (i.e. can no longer blink to islands) Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17, clearly an intentional change
Bug? Changelings appear red to opponents after morphing to "blend in" with enemy. untested
Unlisted Balance Changes that were reverted in the latest Patch 17
Roaches and infestors can no longer move under Force Fields while burrowed Confirmed to have been reverted in Patch 17! clearly intentional
Unlisted, but not balance-related, Changes:
BUG: The 2 Roach Warren upgrades, Glial Reconstitution and Tunneling Claws have had their icons swapped. the bulky heavy claws get you speed; the lighter looking sped up claws get you digging power? makes no sense + Show Spoiler [image] +
(thanks figq)
Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17
If you set a rally point on a unit, and if that unit dies, the rally point is reset. Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17
Transport units now move towards the unit to Load it, when you Right-Click a Transport with the units you want to load. Previously, only the units would move toward the transport, while the transport would just sit there. NOTE: It QUEUES this action, meaning it will first finish any orders you gave to it, before it moves to pick-up the units. Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17, clearly an intentional change
You can now view all the units inside the Nydus Network, rather than just the "first page" of units. (This allows you to pick and choose certain units to unload Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17, clearly an intentional change
If you tell your transports to Unload, only the transports with cargo inside will move, the rest will ignore it Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17, clearly an intentional change
The Ghost ability where it doesn't attack enemy targets (useful when the Ghost is cloaked and doesn't want to reveal that it is around) is now a toggle-able ability. ie: you don't have to press it every time you give the Ghost another command. Confirmed to still exist in Patch 17, clearly an intentional change
Replays speeds are now Normal-Fast-Faster-x2-x4-x8 (before it was Slow Normal Fast Faster Fasterx3 Fasterx6.) untested
Larvae no longer count as a Unit (doesn't show up in the Unit display tab while watching replays or Observing) untested
Critters now roam the maps. And go poof if they're clicked on too much untested
Attack Cooldown values listed in tooltips, when mousing over weapons.
Flying units moving/turning, and overlords generating creep, no longer make my ears bleed
Several graphical additions/tweaks/changes. Units unloading from Medivacs got a new, cool animation. Xel'naga towers showing as an eye on a minimap
Bnet bug: Despite it saying there are 2 placement matches to play, there are really 5 before you are placed.
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: Overlord Generate Creep sound effect seems much quieter
Thank you, Blizzard.
I also like the Infested Terran change, burrowing infestors will be a brilliant mineral harass before turrets/cannons/overseers start popping up everywhere.
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Yeah, being unable to tab through add-ons makes it really hard to do shit, you can't control if you want only marines in reactor barracks so you end up having to remove marines from other rax to make marauders in tech labs or new add-ons in normal barracks(or any building). It's really frustrating.
they also added sounds to units that have been neural parasited, i.e. SCV says robotic phrases such as "awaiting directive", what i mean is the voice implies that the SCV is in fact being controlled.
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Can you be more specific? How does it work now?
You don't tab through different add-ons, it makes it in the most 'efficient' building, which can often mean it spreads it across multile buildings instead of 2 in reactor for example. It's very annoying
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Yeah, being unable to tab through add-ons makes it really hard to do shit, you can't control if you want only marines in reactor barracks so you end up having to remove marines from other rax to make marauders in tech labs or new add-ons in normal barracks(or any building). It's really frustrating.
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Can you be more specific? How does it work now?
You don't tab through different add-ons, it makes it in the most 'efficient' building, which can often mean it spreads it across multile buildings instead of 2 in reactor for example. It's very annoying
i know how is used to work... but we cant tab from techlab -> reactor -> no add-on now? that means we almost need to have all tech labs in one group, reactors/no addons in another... sounds like this forces us to build marauders/ghosts first, else they get built behind marines...
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Can you be more specific? How does it work now?
All the buildings group as one and it issues a build command to the "best "available building in rotating fashion..
But the thing is if you have 2 tech labs and 2 reactors and you are building hellions and tanks you have to build 2 hellions then 2 tanks then 2 hellions when it rotates back to your reactor factories
Oh the map who were renamed have also some slight changes... a lot of new animal and doodad on the map to make them look better... but its still the same map.
On July 08 2010 12:50 koppik wrote: Banelings were +2 (+2 light) per upgrade, for a total of +4 vs light. Are they now +2 (+4 vs light) for a total of +6 or +0 (+4 light)?
oh they got the bonus from nonlight? ya then it's the same as before:
+2 (+2 light) (meaning a total of +4 to light per upgrade)
So with 5 rax (2 tech lab, 2 reactor, 1 no addon) I just press 4 (to select them) then ddaaaaa and I will get the 2 marauders are 5 marines? And if I press aaaaadd I will still get 5 marines and 2 marauders? That sounds like an improvement to me.
On July 08 2010 12:53 DeCoup wrote: So with 5 rax (2 tech lab, 2 reactor, 1 no addon) I just press 4 (to select them) then ddaaaaa and I will get the 2 marauders are 5 marines? And if I press aaaaadd I will still get 5 marines and 2 marauders? That sounds like an improvement to me.
it's not an improvement because once you queue marines in the reactor barracks, it will start queuing them in your tech lab barracks if you build too many marines for your reactors or if you don't time it perfectly.
On July 08 2010 12:53 DeCoup wrote: So with 5 rax (2 tech lab, 2 reactor, 1 no addon) I just press 4 (to select them) then ddaaaaa and I will get the 2 marauders are 5 marines? And if I press aaaaadd I will still get 5 marines and 2 marauders? That sounds like an improvement to me.
but say you want to build only marines out of your reactor you can't go aaaa you have to select the reactor raxes themselves or settle for no tech lab production
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Can you be more specific? How does it work now?
All the buildings group as one and it issues a build command to the "best "available building in rotating fashion..
But the thing is if you have 2 tech labs and 2 reactors and you are building hellions and tanks you have to build 2 hellions then 2 tanks then 2 hellions when it rotates back to your reactor factories
On July 08 2010 12:53 DeCoup wrote: So with 5 rax (2 tech lab, 2 reactor, 1 no addon) I just press 4 (to select them) then ddaaaaa and I will get the 2 marauders are 5 marines? And if I press aaaaadd I will still get 5 marines and 2 marauders? That sounds like an improvement to me.
it's not an improvement because once you queue marines in the reactor barracks, it will start queuing them in your tech lab barracks if you build too many marines for your reactors or if you don't time it perfectly.
It's really quite awful actually
with the aaaaadd, it sounds like you'll be building a marine in each rax+tech lab, then 1 marine in each rax+reactor, then 1 in the barracks (no add on), followed by 2 marauders queued up behind the marines in the rax+tech labs
why don't they just make reactors have priority making marines, as in reactors will always fill up to making 2 marines before it tries to make a marine in another barracks.
On July 08 2010 12:50 Subversion wrote: Wait, did neural parasite just get a huge nerf?
a nerf yes, however not necessarily a HUGE nerf. it just means that its not an instant GG if you neural parasite 10 thors.
It is a HUGE nerf because normally I had like 1-4 units after the fight when i used NP in the right situations. I don't want to cry about this but the thing that really makes me angry is that this is not in the patchchanges -.-
is it just me, or do creep tumors spread creep a shitload faster?
Edit:
i was mistaken, it was just a modification of the build order tester. but i'm loving the graphical updates, being the graphics whore that i am. for one, the zerg buildings are integrated into the creep and morph more naturally, and now i must go to bed. more fun tomorrow.
On July 08 2010 12:56 _`HypeRnoN` wrote: why don't they just make reactors have priority making marines, as in reactors will always fill up to making 2 marines before it tries to make a marine in another barracks.
It's a really convoluted system and just adding back in the tab would require less work on both sides.
With regards to Terran changes, can you just build Tech lab stuff first and marines last? Get in the habit of doing marauders and ghosts before spamming AAAA. I actually wanted this change when playing Terran.
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Can you be more specific? How does it work now?
All the buildings group as one and it issues a build command to the "best "available building in rotating fashion..
But the thing is if you have 2 tech labs and 2 reactors and you are building hellions and tanks you have to build 2 hellions then 2 tanks then 2 hellions when it rotates back to your reactor factories
On July 08 2010 12:53 DeCoup wrote: So with 5 rax (2 tech lab, 2 reactor, 1 no addon) I just press 4 (to select them) then ddaaaaa and I will get the 2 marauders are 5 marines? And if I press aaaaadd I will still get 5 marines and 2 marauders? That sounds like an improvement to me.
it's not an improvement because once you queue marines in the reactor barracks, it will start queuing them in your tech lab barracks if you build too many marines for your reactors or if you don't time it perfectly.
It's really quite awful actually
with the aaaaadd, it sounds like you'll be building a marine in each rax+tech lab, then 1 marine in each rax+reactor, then 1 in the barracks (no add on), followed by 2 marauders queued up behind the marines in the rax+tech labs
So if I'm getting this right you are going to be punished if you queue? sounds great to me
On July 08 2010 13:04 Fizzle wrote: With regards to Terran changes, can you just build Tech lab stuff first and marines last? Get in the habit of doing marauders and ghosts before spamming AAAA. I actually wanted this change when playing Terran.
Most of the time the production cycles of your gas and mineral units don't line up.
Man thats a huge nerf to infestors, I have no idea why taht wouldnt be included in patch changes. Same with the 150/150 roach speed upgrade now if thats true. Can anyone else confirm this?
They changed the MBS and it seems to select every building in your hotkey at once now, regardless of type where you could tab through different ones before.
14 extractor 14 pool, saturating extractor soon as its up, would give 100 gas RIGHT as pool finishes, in phase 1.
Phase 2, tried it 3 times now, and every time I have 88 gas instead of 100 when the pool finishes. So either the pool is finishing faster or SOMETHING is off.
They switched the tunneling claws & glial reconstitution upgrade pictures. Energy is now purple in the wireframe Shields are now blue on the wireframe hotkey bar are easier to see / visualize
The blood, death, and unit animations look more crisp
Roach Speed Upgrade costs 150/150, up from 100/100 (unconfirmed) DISREGARD. Confirmed that Roach upgrades have not changed this patch, it's still 100/100. Tunneling Claws is 150/150 still as well.
all (except stimpack's) pictures in tech labs have changed and when medivacs drop units, you can literally see the units fall out and bounce kinda, its awesome ^^
On July 08 2010 13:20 baconbits wrote: *unconfirmed* but noticing something odd..
14 extractor 14 pool, saturating extractor soon as its up, would give 100 gas RIGHT as pool finishes, in phase 1.
Phase 2, tried it 3 times now, and every time I have 88 gas instead of 100 when the pool finishes. So either the pool is finishing faster or SOMETHING is off.
is anyone else experiencing something similar to this? i've been feeling very gas starved in the few games i've played and i dont know if it's because i'm rusty or if its related to this.
Glad about the burrowed attack - at least something similar to lurkers.
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: Overlords (and i'm assuming the other race's dropships) now move to pickup units. Meaning, if you have some unit/s selected then Right-Click an Overlord, both the units and the overlord will meet up to Load, rather than just the unit/s moving, just like SC1.
It was like that before too.
On July 08 2010 12:48 torm wrote: they also added sounds to units that have been neural parasited, i.e. SCV says robotic phrases such as "awaiting directive", what i mean is the voice implies that the SCV is in fact being controlled.
They had special sounds before too. (not sure if they have changed them)
Changelings change shape but not color. I would think thats a bug because it would be pretty stupid. I was green on my screen, opponent dropped changeling, turned into red marine.
On July 08 2010 13:08 Zelniq wrote: ? didnt they always have that ability
I could've sworn they didn't. Guess it's been a long time since I've played so I forget. Anyway, the icons for the spells have changed such as fungal growth.
Also, they switched icons for roach speed and roach move while burrowed upgrade.
On July 08 2010 13:30 Bosu wrote: Changelings change shape but not color. I would think thats a bug because it would be pretty stupid. I was green on my screen, opponent dropped changeling, turned into red marine.
I think you see them as the odd color but your opponent sees them the same as their units.
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: Overlords (and i'm assuming the other race's dropships) now move to pickup units. Meaning, if you have some unit/s selected then Right-Click an Overlord, both the units and the overlord will meet up to Load, rather than just the unit/s moving, just like SC1.
The base attack void ray could because the damage was front loaded meaning once the animation starts it does admage. This wasn't the case with a charged void ray. Now though you are able to faze (the alternating attack micro) with a charged void ray.
Overlords (and i'm assuming the other race's dropships) now move to pickup units. Meaning, if you have some unit/s selected then Right-Click an Overlord, both the units and the overlord will meet up to Load, rather than just the unit/s moving, just like SC1.
On July 08 2010 13:30 figq wrote: Glad about the burrowed attack - at least something similar to lurkers.
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: Overlords (and i'm assuming the other race's dropships) now move to pickup units. Meaning, if you have some unit/s selected then Right-Click an Overlord, both the units and the overlord will meet up to Load, rather than just the unit/s moving, just like SC1.
It was like that before too.
I don't believe it was like this before
Maybe it required the ships and army to be selected to the same group, but still could achieve this effect for sure. If you mean now ships move towards, without having them selected, that's cool. (i'm not that sure about whether this one was or wasn't like that before, so I'll take your word for it)
On July 08 2010 13:20 baconbits wrote: *unconfirmed* but noticing something odd..
14 extractor 14 pool, saturating extractor soon as its up, would give 100 gas RIGHT as pool finishes, in phase 1.
Phase 2, tried it 3 times now, and every time I have 88 gas instead of 100 when the pool finishes. So either the pool is finishing faster or SOMETHING is off.
is anyone else experiencing something similar to this? i've been feeling very gas starved in the few games i've played and i dont know if it's because i'm rusty or if its related to this.
Something definately changed... wish old replays worked so I could compare the timings >< its driving me NUTS though
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Can you be more specific? How does it work now?
All the buildings group as one and it issues a build command to the "best "available building in rotating fashion..
But the thing is if you have 2 tech labs and 2 reactors and you are building hellions and tanks you have to build 2 hellions then 2 tanks then 2 hellions when it rotates back to your reactor factories
well, that's just crap...
On July 08 2010 12:55 floor exercise wrote:
On July 08 2010 12:53 DeCoup wrote: So with 5 rax (2 tech lab, 2 reactor, 1 no addon) I just press 4 (to select them) then ddaaaaa and I will get the 2 marauders are 5 marines? And if I press aaaaadd I will still get 5 marines and 2 marauders? That sounds like an improvement to me.
it's not an improvement because once you queue marines in the reactor barracks, it will start queuing them in your tech lab barracks if you build too many marines for your reactors or if you don't time it perfectly.
It's really quite awful actually
with the aaaaadd, it sounds like you'll be building a marine in each rax+tech lab, then 1 marine in each rax+reactor, then 1 in the barracks (no add on), followed by 2 marauders queued up behind the marines in the rax+tech labs
So if I'm getting this right you are going to be punished if you queue? sounds great to me
Cept with 4 rax, aaaadd isn't queueing. All units are being produced.
On July 08 2010 13:30 figq wrote: Glad about the burrowed attack - at least something similar to lurkers.
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: Overlords (and i'm assuming the other race's dropships) now move to pickup units. Meaning, if you have some unit/s selected then Right-Click an Overlord, both the units and the overlord will meet up to Load, rather than just the unit/s moving, just like SC1.
It was like that before too.
I don't believe it was like this before
Maybe it required the ships and army to be selected to the same group, but still could achieve this effect for sure. If you mean now ships move towards, without having them selected, that's cool. (i'm not that sure about whether this one was or wasn't like that before, so I'll take your word for it)
ya i mean you only have the ground units selected, then right click an overlord and before the overlord would just sit there and units would walk to it in order to load. now both move close to each other until they can load
On July 08 2010 13:30 figq wrote: Glad about the burrowed attack - at least something similar to lurkers.
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: Overlords (and i'm assuming the other race's dropships) now move to pickup units. Meaning, if you have some unit/s selected then Right-Click an Overlord, both the units and the overlord will meet up to Load, rather than just the unit/s moving, just like SC1.
It was like that before too.
I don't believe it was like this before
Maybe it required the ships and army to be selected to the same group, but still could achieve this effect for sure. If you mean now ships move towards, without having them selected, that's cool. (i'm not that sure about whether this one was or wasn't like that before, so I'll take your word for it)
ya i mean you only have the ground units selected, then right click an overlord and before the overlord would just sit there and units would walk to it in order to load. now both move close to each other until they can load
On July 08 2010 13:30 Bosu wrote: Changelings change shape but not color. I would think thats a bug because it would be pretty stupid. I was green on my screen, opponent dropped changeling, turned into red marine.
I think you see them as the odd color but your opponent sees them the same as their units.
No. My opponent used it and I saw it as his color. I was playing terran.
If I remember correctly, there was a change in the display a few patches ago that modified it so that two numbers would show up, instead of one number and a bonus damage number attached to it. Thus, it'd be something like Damage - 10 vs. Armored - 14, instead of Damage - 10 (+4 vs. armored).
I'd imagine that this is where the confusion is coming from.
Edit: Saw your pic. This is just a change is the way the information is displayed, as I said above. The damage listing versus armored units is not bonus damage on top of the normal value, but the total damage versus those units. It's just a different way of expressing 10 + 4.
On July 08 2010 14:27 galefrost wrote: If I remember correctly, there was a change in the display a few patches ago that modified it so that two numbers would show up, instead of one number and a bonus damage number attached to it. Thus, it'd be something like Damage - 10 vs. Armored - 14, instead of Damage - 10 (+4 vs. armored).
I'd imagine that this is where the confusion is coming from.
I think you are probably right. There is no way they would make stalkers do 14 more damage vs armored.
On July 08 2010 14:27 galefrost wrote: If I remember correctly, there was a change in the display a few patches ago that modified it so that two numbers would show up, instead of one number and a bonus damage number attached to it. Thus, it'd be something like Damage - 10 vs. Armored - 14, instead of Damage - 10 (+4 vs. armored).
I'd imagine that this is where the confusion is coming from.
Edit: Saw your pic. This is just a change is the way the information is displayed, as I said above. The damage listing versus armored units is not bonus damage on top of the normal value, but the total damage versus those units. It's just a different way of expressing 10 + 4.
Jesus christ, the patchnotes didn't tell us anything. Imagine the kind of shit that could happen (or should happen)
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Can you be more specific? How does it work now?
All the buildings group as one and it issues a build command to the "best "available building in rotating fashion..
But the thing is if you have 2 tech labs and 2 reactors and you are building hellions and tanks you have to build 2 hellions then 2 tanks then 2 hellions when it rotates back to your reactor factories
well, that's just crap...
On July 08 2010 12:55 floor exercise wrote:
On July 08 2010 12:53 DeCoup wrote: So with 5 rax (2 tech lab, 2 reactor, 1 no addon) I just press 4 (to select them) then ddaaaaa and I will get the 2 marauders are 5 marines? And if I press aaaaadd I will still get 5 marines and 2 marauders? That sounds like an improvement to me.
it's not an improvement because once you queue marines in the reactor barracks, it will start queuing them in your tech lab barracks if you build too many marines for your reactors or if you don't time it perfectly.
It's really quite awful actually
with the aaaaadd, it sounds like you'll be building a marine in each rax+tech lab, then 1 marine in each rax+reactor, then 1 in the barracks (no add on), followed by 2 marauders queued up behind the marines in the rax+tech labs
So if I'm getting this right you are going to be punished if you queue? sounds great to me
Cept with 4 rax, aaaadd isn't queueing. All units are being produced.
it was 5 rax, 2 with tech labs, 2 with reactors, 1 plain rax
and, the difference is you now have to do ddaaaaa to get them all out at once, but if you do aaaaadd it spits out 5 marines (one from each of the barracks), and THEN builds 2 marauders
before you used to do dd-tab-aaaa-tab-a, if they're going to do it this way, they need to make it so marines get preference to be built in open slots in non-techlab barracks first such that aadadaa gives the same as aaaaadd and ddaaaaa that's my opinion anyways
Blink stalkers can no longer blink over unpathable terrain!!!!!!
Just lost a PvT on Scrap Station cuz I proxied him and he lifted off to the island, I went for blink stalkers and GUESS WHAT "Couldn't find teleport location". GG for me
Confirmed: Spawning Pool's building time is now 60 seconds (hence some of you may be seeing 88 gas instead of 100 gas when going 14gas/14pool since I did that too).
Why the hell did they not tell us all this on the patch notes. I understand not including visual updates or tooltip updates but these are pretty significant changes.
2v2 partner tried blinking into LT island, didn't work for him. This is a pretty big nerf...
So... Because Toss can't blink to islands which are only present in a few maps and not really a thing most people like they lost their flavor entirely? I thought there was more about Protoss lol.
On July 08 2010 14:39 Uranium wrote: Blink stalkers can no longer blink over unpathable terrain!!!!!!
Just lost a PvT on Scrap Station cuz I proxied him and he lifted off to the island, I went for blink stalkers and GUESS WHAT "Couldn't find teleport location". GG for me
Wait.. you lost the game just because he lifted to island and you couldn't blink after him. I find that hard to believe.
On July 08 2010 14:48 ComusLoM wrote: Protoss basically lost their entire backbone army versatility in one foul sweep. I really hope it's just a bug.
??? Personally I don't think it's a big deal... I'm sure many others would agree =/
New contaminate animation, new "we require more minerals" voice over for zerg (thank you jesus...) and when you beat an AI, when it says GG, a new interface window appears in which you can accept the computer's surrender.
Good use of blink stalkers was one of the coolest things to see. Marauders and just about anything zerg not-named roach made going mass-stalker risky enough. =/ Oh well.
Wow, stalkers are now crap. Combat wise, they are bad for their price. They make up for it with maneuverability. They need to blink in order to backdoor a turtling terran, to break an island covered with turrets/spores, harass, etc. Phoenixes and void rays are terrible for harassment compared to banshees and mutas. What is protoss supposed to do now?
Roaches not burrowing under FF is pretty huge imo. Definitely ridiculous change, now Hydra is the only core unit that can effectively deal with FF midgame.
About Stalker Blink... Anyone thought about blizzard balancing the Map Scrap Station? As i recall right, you could blink on the isle from the southern position without observer or anything, but not from the norther position. rock glitch is fair. Please be really sure about this island blink or test it correctly
You CAN'T blink stalkers to island in scrap station.
You CAN blink stalkers to island in lost temple but only BARELY can do it. (Like can teleport it only by one by one).
Can you try other islands? AFAIK you could only blink to the island of Scrap Station from one of the mains because there's a slight difference in distance. Also, can you still blink over cliffs? If you can, I honestly don't see a problem with the change - we'll just have to use something else to kill islands... probably air. And as everyone knows, that's a very useful talent to have.
I do agree that it's going to make harassment on Desert Oasis a little harder, but let's face it, that map is crap anyway.
On July 08 2010 15:16 hwanikani wrote: I just don't get it.
Blink is supposed to teleport stalkers in a range whenever there is a vision.
The rock glitch in blistering sand should be removed because stalkers are not supposed to get a vision when they are under the rock.
However, now stalkers can't teleport (or very hard) to island and it makes the whole idea of blink absurd.
I think you are able to have vision through rocks so that you can tell when the enemy is trying to break through - as a consequence, you get vision for blinking. They could probably "fix" this for Blistering Sands by making rocks block vision up a ramp but not down. Even better would be to make it so that you don't get vision past rocks normally, but if enemies attack the rock when you would have had vision past it you can see the enemies - then you wouldn't be able to blink past rocks on any map (if that is the desired result). Might be tricky to code though.
On July 08 2010 15:17 hwanikani wrote: and the fact that burrowed roach now can't move under FF is ridiculous as well.
Do FF now make walls in underground as well?
Well, assuming the the FF has a more or less round shape (if we only see the top half which is on top of the ground), it might be blocking underground as well - but thats just a matter of fantasy (or in other words: propably bullsh...)
Anyway, even as a Protoss player I think that burrowed roach gave a nice counterpart to the mass FF strategy (in addition to Ultras recently, which I am waiting to develop in phase 2). Hoping that this is just a glitch for now.
Same for Blink on Blistering Sands -a glitch that needs to be removed map wise. What I dont get is the Blink to islands stuff, this is missing any logical explanation :-/
On July 08 2010 15:45 Drimacus wrote: I've a question, one of the rare listed changes is -> Ultras can no longer be stunned. Eh, - how can ultras be stunned??! Do they mean slow?!
Thor Ability. Maybe also Fungal Growth and the Marauder slow, but that's pretty unlikely.
On July 08 2010 15:45 Drimacus wrote: I've a question, one of the rare listed changes is -> Ultras can no longer be stunned. Eh, - how can ultras be stunned??! Do they mean slow?!
Thor Ability. Maybe also Fungal Growth and the Marauder slow, but that's pretty unlikely.
Ah Thanks, Marauder slow doesn't work on massive units and Fungal Growth is no stun as well. But didn't think of the Thor.
Okay, I'm pretty sure they've changed how medivacs behave when grouped with marines and marauders.
Get an MMM group, and do an attack command on the groups. Medivacs will now actually stay back behind the MM's, but still within healing range. So your medivacs are now actually better protected.
Maybe it's because I never tried using infested terran much before, but they seem way better now. You can mass them quickly like mules, and even throw them over cliffs if you have vision. One burrowed infestor can make around 8 of them at full energy, and they only take a couple of seconds to hatch. I have a feeling they'll get used a lot more now.
On July 08 2010 15:45 Drimacus wrote: I've a question, one of the rare listed changes is -> Ultras can no longer be stunned. Eh, - how can ultras be stunned??! Do they mean slow?!
Thor Ability. Maybe also Fungal Growth and the Marauder slow, but that's pretty unlikely.
Fungal Growth should still work on Ultras because its not a stun, the ultra still can hit it just can't move
On July 08 2010 15:45 Drimacus wrote: I've a question, one of the rare listed changes is -> Ultras can no longer be stunned. Eh, - how can ultras be stunned??! Do they mean slow?!
Thor Ability. Maybe also Fungal Growth and the Marauder slow, but that's pretty unlikely.
Fungal Growth should still work on Ultras because its not a stun, the ultra still can hit it just can't move
Fungal growth only damages Ultras, just checked
Also, psi field looks different now? And did the fungal growth always have that weird vectorish icon?
Some other changes (I think): Health, shields, and energy are now more pale (?) Feedback icon (?) Frenzied Icon on Ultra New icon on corruption and contaminate (?)
On July 08 2010 15:56 ZealousD wrote: Okay, I'm pretty sure they've changed how medivacs behave when grouped with marines and marauders.
Get an MMM group, and do an attack command on the groups. Medivacs will now actually stay back behind the MM's, but still within healing range. So your medivacs are now actually better protected.
I sure hope not. Terran shouldn't get auto-micro - the other races have to manage their army positions on their own APM.
Tanks are already super buff now since Blizzard buffed their AI big time with two things: the splash centering (sure, this helped other units as well but most of all the tank - and then they made sure tanks don't over-fire on any unit, which is really what made them balanced in SC1)
Don't need the entire Terran army turning into auto-micro mode.
On July 08 2010 15:56 ZealousD wrote: Okay, I'm pretty sure they've changed how medivacs behave when grouped with marines and marauders.
Get an MMM group, and do an attack command on the groups. Medivacs will now actually stay back behind the MM's, but still within healing range. So your medivacs are now actually better protected.
I sure hope not. Terran shouldn't get auto-micro - the other races have to manage their army positions on their own APM.
Tanks are already super buff now since Blizzard buffed their AI big time with two things: the splash centering (sure, this helped other units as well but most of all the tank - and then they made sure tanks don't over-fire on any unit, which is really what made them balanced in SC1)
Don't need the entire Terran army turning into auto-micro mode.
this thread is about unannounced balance changes, not your opinion on terran as a race.
idk if its mentioned yet but marine shield & reaper speed icons both changed.
I thought the game was pretty balanced end of phase 1, didn't realise zerg needed a buff and protoss needed a nerf. Stalkers that can't blink up cliffs even with sight is a stupid idea and making warpgates take 10 seconds to turn into gateways also pointless.
Can stalkers blink to the cliffs on LT? If they can blink there but not on islands then it's just a range inssue and shouldn't be too problematic. If they can't blink there then that's pretty bad for p.
Can someone please explain how Stalker blink works? Can I still blink up cliffs normally? Except if the ramp is blocked by rocks? And I can't blink to islands at all? So in fact I can only blink to where there's a way pathable by ground? Can I still blink onto the high ground overlooking a natural on Lost Temple even though there's no ramp?
On July 08 2010 16:44 Scorch wrote: Can someone please explain how Stalker blink works? Can I still blink up cliffs normally? Except if the ramp is blocked by rocks? And I can't blink to islands at all? So in fact I can only blink to where there's a way pathable by ground? Can I still blink onto the high ground overlooking a natural on Lost Temple even though there's no ramp?
I can understand the rocks part, but I do hope you can still blink to islands and high ground. It would greatly limit the mobility of the unit from what it once was if you could not.
On July 08 2010 16:44 Scorch wrote: Can someone please explain how Stalker blink works? Can I still blink up cliffs normally? Except if the ramp is blocked by rocks? And I can't blink to islands at all? So in fact I can only blink to where there's a way pathable by ground? Can I still blink onto the high ground overlooking a natural on Lost Temple even though there's no ramp?
Here's what I assume from the thread: You can blink anywhere as long as you have vision and enough range. The island on Scrap Station is out of range. The island on LT is out of range unless you find some sweet spot. Normal cliffs can be blinked up normally. You can't blink up rocks without something giving you vision. Before, you sort of were able to blink into empty space and were moved to the closest walkable area, for example an island. Rock blocked ramps had an area at the top that was visible and not blocked, seems like they fixed that.
Gateways to Warpgates has always taken 10 seconds.
Regarding Stalker damage, Bliz changed the way damage was written patch 15.
Infested Terrans have actually always been pretty good. They are very powerful when bolstering your army or in defensive positions. (I think Bliz was originally too hasty when removing the ability from the Infestors.)
On July 08 2010 16:44 Scorch wrote: Can someone please explain how Stalker blink works? Can I still blink up cliffs normally? Except if the ramp is blocked by rocks? And I can't blink to islands at all? So in fact I can only blink to where there's a way pathable by ground? Can I still blink onto the high ground overlooking a natural on Lost Temple even though there's no ramp?
I can understand the rocks part, but I do hope you can still blink to islands and high ground. It would greatly limit the mobility of the unit from what it once was if you could not.
You can definately blink to high ground, but only if you have vision. But you cannot blink to 'unpathable' so not through thin air like to an island and not over destructable rocks. Just anywhere normal units can't walk.
Anyhow,
The neural parasite nerf is a little bit irksome, but I think it will give the ability a higher skill cap. Now you need to time it so you either recast it if you had 200 energy or you need to micro the mind controlled units to kill each other, and have your army attack them as well. Otherwise you could find yourself suddenly outmatched and possibly out of position because some units you mind controlled suddenly snapped out of it.
But I was thinking a more neural parasite, then self kill at like 8 seconds then retreat.
On July 08 2010 16:51 scrdmnttr wrote: Gateways to Warpgates has always taken 10 seconds.
Regarding Stalker damage, Bliz changed the way damage was written patch 15.
Infested Terrans have actually always been pretty good. They are very powerful when bolstering your army or in defensive positions. (I think Bliz was originally too hasty when removing the ability from the Infestors.)
I think they said Warpgates back to Gateways now takes 10 sec, from 3 sec. There was a thread on here about warp/gate switching to increase unit production since they share a separate cool down. That won't be useful any more w/the increased time.
Zealot buildtime increased from 33 to 38 and cooldown increased from 23 to 28. Reaper buildtime increased from 40 to 45. Psi storm cooldown decreased from 2.5 seconds to 2 seconds.
On July 08 2010 15:56 ZealousD wrote: Okay, I'm pretty sure they've changed how medivacs behave when grouped with marines and marauders.
Get an MMM group, and do an attack command on the groups. Medivacs will now actually stay back behind the MM's, but still within healing range. So your medivacs are now actually better protected.
I tested this. It is simply not true. Medivacs end up leading everyone when you send them moving for a long distance (because they are faster) or over cliffs (because they fly). Maybe your guys were injured, do they were healing while they moved?
On July 08 2010 17:17 NATO wrote: I tested this. It is simply not true. Medivacs end up leading everyone when you send them moving for a long distance (because they are faster) or over cliffs (because they fly). Maybe your guys were injured, do they were healing while they moved?
Eh I don't think there is a point to mind control now. 100 energy infestor, requires an upgrade, lasts only 10 or so seconds. I just don't find it worth it tbh :/.
But I didn't know zealots got a build time increase and psi storm reduced from 2.5 to 2 seconds :O. Wonder why the didn't say these in patch notes :S
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: The 2 Roach Warren upgrades, Glial Reconstitution and Tunneling Claws have had their hotkeys swapped. it's now T and G, respectively. argh
argh+1 , sounds like clear mistake, hope they switch it back
On July 08 2010 17:38 johnouyoung wrote: Did fungal growth work on air units before? I tried it on mutalisks about 5 times and it didn't work
Did you click ON the mutas or on the air unit helper thing slightly below the mutas? Yes it worked before and it would be horrible if it wouldn't work anymore.
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Can you be more specific? How does it work now?
All the buildings group as one and it issues a build command to the "best "available building in rotating fashion..
But the thing is if you have 2 tech labs and 2 reactors and you are building hellions and tanks you have to build 2 hellions then 2 tanks then 2 hellions when it rotates back to your reactor factories
Stalkers can no longer blink up cliffs blocked by rocks without vision, nor are they able to blink across unpassable terrain (i.e. can no longer blink to islands)
Neural Parasite lasts about 12-ish in-game seconds.
On July 08 2010 17:17 NATO wrote: I tested this. It is simply not true. Medivacs end up leading everyone when you send them moving for a long distance (because they are faster) or over cliffs (because they fly). Maybe your guys were injured, do they were healing while they moved?
Are you sure you were using attack move?
I can Fraps this.
My mistake. Now I have to test again...AI achievements here I come!
On July 08 2010 17:38 johnouyoung wrote: Did fungal growth work on air units before? I tried it on mutalisks about 5 times and it didn't work
Did you click ON the mutas or on the air unit helper thing slightly below the mutas? Yes it worked before and it would be horrible if it wouldn't work anymore.
Yea I am pretty sure it should have hit, I watched it over and over on my replay. Can someone else test this and confirm?
Okay, I figured out what the medivacs were doing. It's not attack-move that's the key to the behavior.
Anytime a medivac is in range of a friendly biological unit in combat, it will automatically hold its position and FACE the unit, in preparation of healing it. So if you do a scan move command on a medivac while its near friendly biological units IN COMBAT it will simply sit tight, regardless of whether or not the unit needs healing. I confused this for some sort of auto-spacing behavior because as I was moving an MM force forward in an enemy base, the medivacs wouldn't move ahead of them, even though they weren't healing.
On July 08 2010 17:59 ZealousD wrote: Okay, I figured out what the medivacs were doing. It's not attack-move that's the key to the behavior.
Anytime a medivac is in range of a friendly biological unit in combat, it will automatically hold its position and FACE the unit, in preparation of healing it. So if you do a scan move command on a medivac while its near friendly biological units IN COMBAT it will simply sit tight, regardless of whether or not the unit needs healing. I confused this for some sort of auto-spacing behavior because as I was moving an MM force forward in an enemy base, the medivacs wouldn't move ahead of them, even though they weren't healing.
I'll have a YouTube video up shortly.
Yeah, I just tried a-move and it was the same behavior as move. How does it determine when a unit is in combat if it is not damaged?
On July 08 2010 17:59 ZealousD wrote: Okay, I figured out what the medivacs were doing. It's not attack-move that's the key to the behavior.
Anytime a medivac is in range of a friendly biological unit in combat, it will automatically hold its position and FACE the unit, in preparation of healing it. So if you do a scan move command on a medivac while its near friendly biological units IN COMBAT it will simply sit tight, regardless of whether or not the unit needs healing. I confused this for some sort of auto-spacing behavior because as I was moving an MM force forward in an enemy base, the medivacs wouldn't move ahead of them, even though they weren't healing.
On July 08 2010 17:59 ZealousD wrote: Okay, I figured out what the medivacs were doing. It's not attack-move that's the key to the behavior.
Anytime a medivac is in range of a friendly biological unit in combat, it will automatically hold its position and FACE the unit, in preparation of healing it. So if you do a scan move command on a medivac while its near friendly biological units IN COMBAT it will simply sit tight, regardless of whether or not the unit needs healing. I confused this for some sort of auto-spacing behavior because as I was moving an MM force forward in an enemy base, the medivacs wouldn't move ahead of them, even though they weren't healing.
I'll have a YouTube video up shortly.
Yeah, I just tried a-move and it was the same behavior as move. How does it determine when a unit is in combat if it is not damaged?
I guess it's about whether or not an enemy unit is visable for u on the potential way - or - the attackmove itselfs triggers this behavior
however.. imo this is a bad thing, this isn t just simplifying the units behavior, it s more like an easymode 4 controlling the terran army : (
On July 08 2010 18:08 Gautz wrote: however.. imo this is a bad thing, this isn t just simplifying the units behavior, it s more like an easymode 4 controlling the terran army : (
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, considering both Protoss and Zerg in mid-game have an easymode for killing terran bio-army ;P
On July 08 2010 18:03 NATO wrote: Yeah, I just tried a-move and it was the same behavior as move. How does it determine when a unit is in combat if it is not damaged?
I guess I should be more specific. If the unit is currently firing its weapon, than the medivac will hold and face it.
On July 08 2010 16:29 InTriX wrote: I thought the game was pretty balanced end of phase 1, didn't realise zerg needed a buff and protoss needed a nerf. Stalkers that can't blink up cliffs even with sight is a stupid idea and making warpgates take 10 seconds to turn into gateways also pointless.
stalkers still can blink on higher ground if you have sight. There's just some cases (MT islands, ramp blocked by rocks) that have been fixed.
wg -> gate = 10 sec gate -> wg = 3 sec it was already like this in phase 1. No change here.
I must point out that that is indeed a roach nerf, neural parasite time is also a nerf and the fact stalkers can no longer blink to islands and across unpassable terrain makes me a bit mad >
Stalkers can no longer blink up cliffs blocked by rocks without vision, nor are they able to blink across unpassable terrain (i.e. can no longer blink to islands)
Neural Parasite lasts about 12-ish in-game seconds.
Lame. Were these really game-breaking?
I still can't get over this NP nerf. It's not like Infestors were ever hard to kill in combat given the range of NP. Never mind the fact that once NP'd you can't move the unit very far - or the Infestor at all.
Do you think they nerfed NP to "compensate" for the Infested Terrans ability going back to Infestors?
Am I completely off-base? Do non-Zerg players feel this was a necessary change?
On July 08 2010 16:29 InTriX wrote: I thought the game was pretty balanced end of phase 1, didn't realise zerg needed a buff and protoss needed a nerf. Stalkers that can't blink up cliffs even with sight is a stupid idea and making warpgates take 10 seconds to turn into gateways also pointless.
stalkers still can blink on higher ground if you have sight. There's just some cases (MT islands, ramp blocked by rocks) that have been fixed.
wg -> gate = 10 sec gate -> wg = 3 sec it was already like this in phase 1. No change here.
You got the values reversed and it's no longer like that, both are 10 seconds now and the warpgate->gateway->warpgate trick does not work at all, since the cooldown is paused, until you transform back to a warpgate.
so medivacs are smarter now and they don't go all in into the fights even if all units have full health ? they will always stay behind the unit line so they can heal ???
Maybe that is applied also to the high templars... since they NEVER attack just like the medvacs.
On July 08 2010 16:29 InTriX wrote: I thought the game was pretty balanced end of phase 1, didn't realise zerg needed a buff and protoss needed a nerf. Stalkers that can't blink up cliffs even with sight is a stupid idea and making warpgates take 10 seconds to turn into gateways also pointless.
stalkers still can blink on higher ground if you have sight. There's just some cases (MT islands, ramp blocked by rocks) that have been fixed.
wg -> gate = 10 sec gate -> wg = 3 sec it was already like this in phase 1. No change here.
You got the values reversed and it's no longer like that, both are 10 seconds now and the warpgate->gateway->warpgate trick does not work at all, since the cooldown is paused, until you transform back to a warpgate.
i've realized my mistake too late. So gate -> wg is 10 sec too now? if that's true, then it's huge! can't believe they could have forget something like that in the patch notes.
On July 08 2010 16:29 InTriX wrote: I thought the game was pretty balanced end of phase 1, didn't realise zerg needed a buff and protoss needed a nerf. Stalkers that can't blink up cliffs even with sight is a stupid idea and making warpgates take 10 seconds to turn into gateways also pointless.
stalkers still can blink on higher ground if you have sight. There's just some cases (MT islands, ramp blocked by rocks) that have been fixed.
wg -> gate = 10 sec gate -> wg = 3 sec it was already like this in phase 1. No change here.
You got the values reversed and it's no longer like that, both are 10 seconds now and the warpgate->gateway->warpgate trick does not work at all, since the cooldown is paused, until you transform back to a warpgate.
Confirming the warpgate switch. The trick is dead, as warpgate cooldown doesnt reduce while in gateway form.
As to stalkers, they CAN blink up cliffs if you have sight, I'm about to test some more on scrap station.
Ok, Stalkers CAN'T blink to the island on SS, but they CAN blink over just rocks if there's vision. Also, they CAN blink over void if there is a land path around it, such as near the naturals on SS.
EDIT: Also, has warpgate zealot cooldown always been 28s? That seems longer than I remember.
On July 08 2010 18:38 Drakan wrote: so medivacs are smarter now and they don't go all in into the fights even if all units have full health ? they will always stay behind the unit line so they can heal ???
Maybe that is applied also to the high templars... since they NEVER attack just like the medvacs.
On July 08 2010 16:29 InTriX wrote: I thought the game was pretty balanced end of phase 1, didn't realise zerg needed a buff and protoss needed a nerf. Stalkers that can't blink up cliffs even with sight is a stupid idea and making warpgates take 10 seconds to turn into gateways also pointless.
stalkers still can blink on higher ground if you have sight. There's just some cases (MT islands, ramp blocked by rocks) that have been fixed.
wg -> gate = 10 sec gate -> wg = 3 sec it was already like this in phase 1. No change here.
You got the values reversed and it's no longer like that, both are 10 seconds now and the warpgate->gateway->warpgate trick does not work at all, since the cooldown is paused, until you transform back to a warpgate.
i've realized my mistake too late. So gate -> wg is 10 sec too now? if that's true, then it's huge! can't believe they could have forget something like that in the patch notes.
gate -> wg was 10 seconds wg -> gate was 3 seconds and is now 10 seconds
On July 08 2010 16:29 InTriX wrote: I thought the game was pretty balanced end of phase 1, didn't realise zerg needed a buff and protoss needed a nerf. Stalkers that can't blink up cliffs even with sight is a stupid idea and making warpgates take 10 seconds to turn into gateways also pointless.
stalkers still can blink on higher ground if you have sight. There's just some cases (MT islands, ramp blocked by rocks) that have been fixed.
wg -> gate = 10 sec gate -> wg = 3 sec it was already like this in phase 1. No change here.
You got the values reversed and it's no longer like that, both are 10 seconds now and the warpgate->gateway->warpgate trick does not work at all, since the cooldown is paused, until you transform back to a warpgate.
Confirming the warpgate switch. The trick is dead, as warpgate cooldown doesnt reduce while in gateway form.
As to stalkers, they CAN blink up cliffs if you have sight, I'm about to test some more on scrap station.
EDIT: Also, has warpgate zealot cooldown always been 38s? That seems longer than I remember.
From my previous post: Zealot buildtime increased from 33 to 38 and cooldown increased from 23 to 28.
I believe the barracks build time has been increased to 65. (I'm 90% sure it was 60 before). I noted some other small changes:
- Color of the UI switched from yellow to white when units are loaded in a bunker. - When the Yamato upgrade is complete, a battlecruiser voice announces " Yamato Cannon operational" - When facing an AI, when you do terrible terrible damage to them (ie, killl their CC and a bit of their army). They ask to "surrender" which effectively removes them from the game if you accept.
Overlords (and i'm assuming the other race's dropships) now move to pickup units. Meaning, if you have some unit/s selected then Right-Click an Overlord, both the units and the overlord will meet up to Load, rather than just the unit/s moving, just like SC1.
Omg yes :D!!!!!!!!
Replays speeds are now Normal-Fast-Faster-x2-x4-x8 (before I think it was Slower, Slow, Normal, Fast, Faster, Faster x3, Faster x6. correct?)
Again, yes! :D!
Stalkers can no longer blink up cliffs blocked by rocks without vision, nor are they able to blink across unpassable terrain (i.e. can no longer blink to islands)
You guys are confusing the hell out of me with the stalkers...
Can they or can't they blink to an island within range when they have vision (true island, no path for normal units to take, just void or water or abiss or unpassable terrain)?
On July 08 2010 19:07 Doctorasul wrote: You guys are confusing the hell out of me with the stalkers...
Can they or can't they blink to an island within range when they have vision (true island, no path for normal units to take, just void or water or abiss or unpassable terrain)?
Yes, they should be able to, but only to the limit of their blink range (which usually isn't enough to get them to most islands).
Stalkers can no longer blink up cliffs blocked by rocks without vision, nor are they able to blink across unpassable terrain (i.e. can no longer blink to islands)
On July 08 2010 19:07 Doctorasul wrote: You guys are confusing the hell out of me with the stalkers...
Can they or can't they blink to an island within range when they have vision (true island, no path for normal units to take, just void or water or abiss or unpassable terrain)?
Yes, they should be able to, but only to the limit of their blink range (which usually isn't enough to get them to most islands).
Actually.... They can't. Tried it on Scrap Station, they give an error message when trying to blink to a true island.
Just jumping in here to say that the new terran build system is far inferior to what it was before. I've figured that the best bet is to start with the high-tier units and move down, the only problem is that it's just entirely too vulnerable to mis-keys and over-pressing. It also removes that "at-a-glance" sense of what types of buildings you had available and what their workload was like in addition to somewhat of a tactile feel of "oh, alright, 2 reactors, 2 labs, 1... nothing?" I should probably just shut up though because the cure for this is simply improving accuracy, but still, it wouldn't have been necessary before.
To contribute though, the Terran scan radius has increased, in addition to the size of the graphic. First time I dropped one after the patch I had to comment on how huge it was.
When I saw ZealousDs video I noticed that the Xel'Naga Watch Towers icon on the minimap now is an eye instead of a white dot. Don't think anyone has mentioned this yet.
On low graphics setting, pylon power range is now indicated by only a dashed blue line, instead of an entire glowing circle. Best change yet for my crappy laptop as now I can actually play toss. Before, clicking on any pylon or trying to place a building would result in major lag spike.
On July 08 2010 19:07 Doctorasul wrote: You guys are confusing the hell out of me with the stalkers...
Can they or can't they blink to an island within range when they have vision (true island, no path for normal units to take, just void or water or abiss or unpassable terrain)?
Yes, they should be able to, but only to the limit of their blink range (which usually isn't enough to get them to most islands).
Actually.... They can't. Tried it on Scrap Station, they give an error message when trying to blink to a true island.
The 2 islands on Lost Temple can be blinked to, so I'm pretty sure that blizzard just fixed blink to not let stalkers blink to terrain outside of blink range.
On July 08 2010 19:07 Doctorasul wrote: You guys are confusing the hell out of me with the stalkers...
Can they or can't they blink to an island within range when they have vision (true island, no path for normal units to take, just void or water or abiss or unpassable terrain)?
Yes, they should be able to, but only to the limit of their blink range (which usually isn't enough to get them to most islands).
Actually.... They can't. Tried it on Scrap Station, they give an error message when trying to blink to a true island.
Then it is too far away, the real blink range is really small. And the reason you could blink over rocks before witout vision is because you actually blinked on the rocks and was pathed to the other side, you can no longer blink on unpathable areas.
ctrl f8-f12 is better than f5-f8 imo at least now i can easily do it with the right control however I haven't really used the f binds that much in sc2 since I can macro with 5 and tab so no real need for them imo for precise scans in your enemies base.
Do zerglings seem smaller to anyone else? I'm not sure why, but they just seem a tad smaller... perhaps it's a graphic thing they changed with their "wings" when you get the speed upgrade.
Thanks for the updates zelniq and everyone who found them.
My infestor usually got picked off before 12 seconds anyways, cause I apparently suck at their placement, so we'll see how that change is gonna affect me.
But I hope the creep tumor thing is just a bug. I think there's been alot of complaining about how fast zerg can spread creep, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a nerf afterall.
Why do they hide these changes? I don't get it. Some of these are huge changes, and unlisting them makes no sense to me. Anyone know why they would want to hide them?
Am I the only one who noticed the new medivac drop animation? It's helluva cool! Drop marines/marauders from medivacs and they actually fall from the medivac, unlike the instant drop in phase 1.
On July 08 2010 15:56 ZealousD wrote: Okay, I'm pretty sure they've changed how medivacs behave when grouped with marines and marauders.
Get an MMM group, and do an attack command on the groups. Medivacs will now actually stay back behind the MM's, but still within healing range. So your medivacs are now actually better protected.
I sure hope not. Terran shouldn't get auto-micro - the other races have to manage their army positions on their own APM.
Tanks are already super buff now since Blizzard buffed their AI big time with two things: the splash centering (sure, this helped other units as well but most of all the tank - and then they made sure tanks don't over-fire on any unit, which is really what made them balanced in SC1)
Don't need the entire Terran army turning into auto-micro mode.
if you A-move the medivacs automatically stop to heal, i think that's what the other guy observed.
i doubt very much that blizzard would make medivacs reject an a-move command 'unless there are units infront of them'... wouldn't make any sense.
even though i believe medivacs attack priority makes them really lame infront as well - your units deciding to shoot the high armor high hp medivacs instead of the small damage dealing bio units like marines is a huge disadvantage for you... especially as the terran can also just micro the low hp medivacs to the back and not effect dps in the slightest.
so, they completly screw 2 gate openings against zerg and stalkers have been nerfed into oblivion while at the same time terran gets huge ai buffs on their medivacs?
thats the final nail in the coffin for my protoss, hello terran : )
they make balance changes based on data. Terran was losing more games than other races. Even the high level tournaments are being won by zerg or toss, not terran.
On July 08 2010 19:26 jiabung wrote: On low graphics setting, pylon power range is now indicated by only a dashed blue line, instead of an entire glowing circle. Best change yet for my crappy laptop as now I can actually play toss. Before, clicking on any pylon or trying to place a building would result in major lag spike.
if this is true i'd love it because it wouldnt happen to me untill it was on a 5 or 6 pylons when i had that graphs lag spike not too significant yet i rather a smooth play at all times even tho i love the graphics i think i just might play on low and watch my replays on mid/hig
On July 08 2010 20:56 Knutzi wrote: so, they completly screw 2 gate openings against zerg and stalkers have been nerfed into oblivion while at the same time terran gets huge ai buffs on their medivacs?
thats the final nail in the coffin for my protoss, hello terran : )
i'm toss at heart yet i am worried for a 6 pool rush or any rush now... i need to play to see how this affects me but i will stick with toss still one of the best and toughest races in mid-late game IMO.
Stalkers can no longer blink up cliffs blocked by rocks without vision, nor are they able to blink across unpassable terrain (i.e. can no longer blink to islands)
Neural Parasite lasts about 12-ish in-game seconds.
Lame. Were these really game-breaking?
I still can't get over this NP nerf. It's not like Infestors were ever hard to kill in combat given the range of NP. Never mind the fact that once NP'd you can't move the unit very far - or the Infestor at all.
Do you think they nerfed NP to "compensate" for the Infested Terrans ability going back to Infestors?
Am I completely off-base? Do non-Zerg players feel this was a necessary change?
i don't feel it was a necessary change, but infinite duration was 'meh'.
basically it's still great in battle but it's not so great to 'steal' units outside battle then manipulate it for 5 minutes while your army arrives to snipe it off.
On July 08 2010 20:56 Knutzi wrote: so, they completly screw 2 gate openings against zerg and stalkers have been nerfed into oblivion while at the same time terran gets huge ai buffs on their medivacs?
thats the final nail in the coffin for my protoss, hello terran : )
Stalkers nerfed to oblivion? I hope I missed something. Surely you don't just mean because of the scrap station island and highground destructable rock fix...
Stalkers can no longer blink up cliffs blocked by rocks without vision, nor are they able to blink across unpassable terrain (i.e. can no longer blink to islands)
Neural Parasite lasts about 12-ish in-game seconds.
Lame. Were these really game-breaking?
I still can't get over this NP nerf. It's not like Infestors were ever hard to kill in combat given the range of NP. Never mind the fact that once NP'd you can't move the unit very far - or the Infestor at all.
Do you think they nerfed NP to "compensate" for the Infested Terrans ability going back to Infestors?
Am I completely off-base? Do non-Zerg players feel this was a necessary change?
i don't feel it was a necessary change, but infinite duration was 'meh'.
basically it's still great in battle but it's not so great to 'steal' units outside battle then manipulate it for 5 minutes while your army arrives to snipe it off.
was pretty homo on LT trying to take the island near your main as your third only to have protoss just blink up and take it out.
So, zerg takes some heavy nerfs (NP + creep tumors + changelings broken and roach//ff).
Protoss is weaker against early aggression because of longer zeal build times. + stalkers fixed // sortof nerf. I'm not convinced they should have had the ability to blink up rocks like they did before.
Reapers are almost useless now since the window vs protoss is smaller.
Is anyone else somewhat worried about all the hidden changes that keep showing up, like these or the ultralisk AoE damage nerf?
It seems like it defeats the purpose of having patch notes at all, since people need to go through and check each variable anyways because so much is unlisted, and I worry they'll use it to slip changes in.
Well 6 pools are going to be unstoppable if the Zealot takes longer to build. A 10 gate + boosted zealot barely gets out in time to stop it as it is. If you're like 2 seconds late starting either the pylon or the gateway, the zerglings tend to get through anyway. Obviously it kind of depends on rush distance, but if I'm on a map like Steppes with a crazy short rush distance and I get 6-pooled, Zealots are barely quick enough. If they take longer now, 6pools are going to be (more) retarded...
On July 08 2010 20:56 Knutzi wrote: so, they completly screw 2 gate openings against zerg and stalkers have been nerfed into oblivion while at the same time terran gets huge ai buffs on their medivacs?
thats the final nail in the coffin for my protoss, hello terran : )
I never used stalkers to blink to islands at all and i never had any problems..
"Nerfed into oblivion" is a bit of an overstatement here i think
On July 08 2010 21:28 arb wrote: I never used stalkers to blink to islands at all and i never had any problems..
"Nerfed into oblivion" is a bit of an overstatement here i think
Someone also confirmed that it is possible to blink to the Lost Temple islands but only "one at a time", which I assume can be worked around by queueing up a move after the blink.
If "fazing" charged void rays is now possible, that means that they can no longer hold their charge without doing damage, making it a mixed buff I suppose.
On July 08 2010 21:19 Jibba wrote: Is anyone else somewhat worried about all the hidden changes that keep showing up, like these or the ultralisk AoE damage nerf?
It seems like it defeats the purpose of having patch notes at all, since people need to go through and check each variable anyways because so much is unlisted, and I worry they'll use it to slip changes in.
It is only when they apply many patches at once, then they for some reason only show us the latest changelog. For example when they said that they reduced fungal growths damage to 35 when it was 20 damage before that so people believed that it was nerfed when it was actually buffed in that patch.
Damn, the Stalker Blink nerf is going to make PvT that much more annoying. It's already frustrating as hell to basetrade with a Terran and have them float off to an island, but at least you could get over there with relatively cheap units. Now I have to tech all the way back up to air or prisms, if possible at all.
Also, I get the feeling that siege expand will be a lot harder to stop now, particularly on LT. One of my counters to it was making blink stalkers and blinking them in right next to the nat from the gold expo. That way I could do some damage and have the tanks to the bulk of the damage to their own CC. Can't do that now, so instead I'll have to just suicide run them through the choke. =/ Going to have to rethink that one.
The addon change is AWESOME. WTF are people complaining about? You just queue the tech lab units first and you don't need to know which ones you have selected or tab between them and you have letters indicating what kind of addon each building has. They just need to fix it so reactors queue 2 units initially instead of just 1.
On July 08 2010 21:40 lololol wrote: The addon change is AWESOME. WTF are people complaining about? You just queue the tech lab units first and you don't need to know which ones you have selected or tab between them and you have letters indicating what kind of addon each building has. They just need to fix it so reactors queue 2 units initially instead of just 1.
If that's true, I might be able to finally play Terran competently. My macro with Terran has been retarded because of all the need for tabbing.
Well, don't blame me for not seeing it :X I didn't sleep yet nor did I ever even consider such upgrade useful at all. I need to rest.
I really like the AI so far, it scouts actively, it expands actively (even to gold, I've had AI attack rocks to make an expansion at gold, but the game was finished before the rocks died, and it also try to sneak a hidden expansion when I crushed it's main) and that's not even at insane level. The only thing though is that if you play against 2 AI and both are same race, they will do the same exact build.
On July 08 2010 21:40 lololol wrote: The addon change is AWESOME. WTF are people complaining about? You just queue the tech lab units first and you don't need to know which ones you have selected or tab between them and you have letters indicating what kind of addon each building has. They just need to fix it so reactors queue 2 units initially instead of just 1.
If that's true, I might be able to finally play Terran competently. My macro with Terran has been retarded because of all the need for tabbing.
Tabbing between building types was too diffucult? what?
On July 08 2010 12:42 prototype. wrote: ctrl+f5-f8 moved to ctrl+f8-f12
very inconvenient...
Logic cannot explain this. My head exploded.
Can't we change that back with our own hotkey setups, though? I thought retail would have support for this.
On July 08 2010 21:52 kentonator wrote: I bet half the people crying about the stalker fix have never even blinked to an island before. Seriously how often does that happen?
Trust me, I have. I have a Terran buddy that absolutely loves basetrading me, because he knows he can just float off. I can normally counter it if I see it coming by just saving up some money to build probes or a nexus, but still.
Also, the insanely lame 'Float CC to island, fortify with a million turrets' trick was easiest to beat with Blink Stalkers. Sure, there are other ways, but this was the quickest and most convenient.
Also, by your logic, why would it even have to be changed if no one used it to great effect?
On July 08 2010 21:52 kentonator wrote: I bet half the people crying about the stalker fix have never even blinked to an island before. Seriously how often does that happen?
Trust me, I have. I have a Terran buddy that absolutely loves basetrading me, because he knows he can just float off. I can normally counter it if I see it coming by just saving up some money to build probes or a nexus, but still.
Also, the insanely lame 'Float CC to island, fortify with a million turrets' trick was easiest to beat with Blink Stalkers. Sure, there are other ways, but this was the quickest and most convenient.
Also, by your logic, why would it even have to be changed if no one used it to great effect?
It was fixed for the way that it was intended to be, and if a Terran lifts off his base to an island he is going to fall behind, and it should be an easy win for you.
On July 08 2010 21:19 Jibba wrote: Is anyone else somewhat worried about all the hidden changes that keep showing up, like these or the ultralisk AoE damage nerf?
It seems like it defeats the purpose of having patch notes at all, since people need to go through and check each variable anyways because so much is unlisted, and I worry they'll use it to slip changes in.
They do the same thing in WoW, I don't really know the reason for it though. Sometimes they use the excuse its a last minute change they didn't add in notes but seems way to many things here to make that excuse.
On July 08 2010 21:52 kentonator wrote: I bet half the people crying about the stalker fix have never even blinked to an island before. Seriously how often does that happen?
Trust me, I have. I have a Terran buddy that absolutely loves basetrading me, because he knows he can just float off. I can normally counter it if I see it coming by just saving up some money to build probes or a nexus, but still.
Also, the insanely lame 'Float CC to island, fortify with a million turrets' trick was easiest to beat with Blink Stalkers. Sure, there are other ways, but this was the quickest and most convenient.
Also, by your logic, why would it even have to be changed if no one used it to great effect?
It was fixed for the way that it was intended to be, and if a Terran lifts off his base to an island he is going to fall behind, and it should be an easy win for you.
Yes, but it can take ages. Similarly, I had a new player do this to me: he genuinely had no idea that his base didn't need 50 cannons to be defended. I had full map control, the guy only managed to build a few Carriers, but I still spent 45 minutes in-game before I could take his base down.
Difference is, against Terran you could avoid the Turrets by just using ground units ... Stalkers. Not anymore.
That aside, it doesn't make any sense logically either. A Stalker can blink straight through a rock cliff as long as a teammate has vision on the other side, yet he can't blink to a ledge on the other side of a chasm - even though he has clear vision of it, nothing is impeding his movement and it doesn't exceed the blink range.
On July 08 2010 22:19 DarQraven wrote: That aside, it doesn't make any sense logically either. A Stalker can blink straight through a rock cliff as long as a teammate has vision on the other side, yet he can't blink to a ledge on the other side of a chasm - even though he has clear vision of it, nothing is impeding his movement and it doesn't exceed the blink range.
You can blink if you got blink range, the blink range is just extremely small and you need full pathing on the other side. It blinks roughly as far as it can shoot, can it shoot to the other side?
On July 08 2010 22:19 DarQraven wrote: That aside, it doesn't make any sense logically either. A Stalker can blink straight through a rock cliff as long as a teammate has vision on the other side, yet he can't blink to a ledge on the other side of a chasm - even though he has clear vision of it, nothing is impeding his movement and it doesn't exceed the blink range.
Where are you getting that stalkers can't blink accross chasms anymore?
From what I gather, the only thing that was fixed was the blink distance bug and the rock vision bug.
On July 08 2010 22:19 DarQraven wrote: That aside, it doesn't make any sense logically either. A Stalker can blink straight through a rock cliff as long as a teammate has vision on the other side, yet he can't blink to a ledge on the other side of a chasm - even though he has clear vision of it, nothing is impeding his movement and it doesn't exceed the blink range.
Where are you getting that stalkers can't blink accross chasms anymore?
From what I gather, the only thing that was fixed was the blink distance bug and the rock vision bug.
From OP. "Stalkers can no longer blink up cliffs blocked by rocks without vision, nor are they able to blink across unpassable terrain (i.e. can no longer blink to islands)"
On July 08 2010 22:19 DarQraven wrote: That aside, it doesn't make any sense logically either. A Stalker can blink straight through a rock cliff as long as a teammate has vision on the other side, yet he can't blink to a ledge on the other side of a chasm - even though he has clear vision of it, nothing is impeding his movement and it doesn't exceed the blink range.
Where are you getting that stalkers can't blink accross chasms anymore?
From what I gather, the only thing that was fixed was the blink distance bug and the rock vision bug.
From OP. "Stalkers can no longer blink up cliffs blocked by rocks without vision, nor are they able to blink across unpassable terrain (i.e. can no longer blink to islands)"
On July 08 2010 22:35 DarQraven wrote: From OP. "Stalkers can no longer blink up cliffs blocked by rocks without vision, nor are they able to blink across unpassable terrain (i.e. can no longer blink to islands)"
Maybe I'm misunderstanding here.
The OP most likely misunderstood. Someone in this thread even confirmed that you can still blink to the Lost Temple islands if you find the sweet spot.
What is going on at blizzard? Its kinda obv that all the "anoying" and slightly difficult things terran has to deal with gets fixed. I mean: Thor splash against muta, void ray range nerf, tech getting cheaper (like stim etc).
Doesnt anyone over there realise that terran might not be winning right now, but they are the race with by far the biggest potential. Its going to be all terran wins until HotS if they continue like this. I mean EMP alone is a cheaper, faster, longer range spell than feedback/storm and it does both in 1. Its unit can also attack and cloak.
The stalker not being able to blink up destro rocks is retarded, it made sence, you can see part of the ramp and a stalker can blink where it can see. It wasnt inbalanced or OP at all, it was just the ONLY early/mid game harass protoss have.
I guess harassing is reserved for terran with tanks and their range towards steppes nat for example, reapers, cloaked banshee, viking landing etc. all which are alot earlier than anything that protoss can do like storm drop or maybe phoenix lift.
Two gate versus zerg was just fine, and tbh the only tactics that made the matchup balanced. Now its easy FE for zerg which means that their midgame push is going to overrun protoss.
The change might have been needed for other reason but why does it feel like terran gets the creative buffs/nerf where the other races just gets the nurfbat which will create imbalanced in other places not intended?
Zerg/Terran domination until the expansion or possible even the protoss expansion. Im playing terran for sure. I feel so much more relaxed with knowing that if I scout well (reapers/scans etc) I can always get a strong counter.
NP is a bit annoying but possibly necessary, now that ultras don't get stunned we may see fewer thors anyways.
Roach burrow under FF is annoying ... I mean, the other units with special movement (flying) can get around them, they aren't 100% impassable, so why isn't under them an option ? (especially when that option requires 2 upgrades and a branched out 1.5 tech and tier 2).
The IT is looking like it could even be useful ... thinking of IT harass much like raven turret harass. The upgrade to 30 secs seemed necessary, they just died too fast. The ability co cast when burrowed seems fun ... can't wait to throw one at the marines beside their sieged tanks.
Protoss:
Zealots and WGs ... guess that will avoid the default 2 gating of zerg. I don't 6 pool but hope that won't become an issue. We will have to see what this does, if it promotes more econ games I like it,
Stalkers are a fix not a nerf, up the rocks was silly, and if you can't out macro an enemy confined to 1 island location, you deserve to lose lol. Blink seems to otherwise work as normal.
Terran:
Nothing much changed, slightly smarter AI probably isn't a bad thing.
What??? Is the zealot build time legit? If so why are they doing huge changes without listing them in the patch notes. I mean ~15% longer build time out of the blue.
The storm cooldown would be n1 if its true because it just sucked having templers with energy and cooldown die.
Infestors throwing terrans while burrowed sounds pretty cool tough. If infested teranns last longer it can be nice to spam some in a big fight. Its like getting marins with +2(well no stim) and you can get out 8 of a full infestor n1.
I think ultra dmg got a buff. I haven't played yet, but from editor data, it looks like there is a proc of 33% dmg within an arc of 45 degrees (the new one), and a proc of another 33% dmg within an arc of 180 degrees (the old one). Both have a range of 2. I am interpreting it as within 45 degrees, the dmg output will be 33% + 33%, and then outside of that arc, the dmg is 33%. Correct me if I'm wrong.
On July 08 2010 22:56 Illva wrote: The stalker not being able to blink up destro rocks is retarded, it made sence, you can see part of the ramp and a stalker can blink where it can see. It wasnt inbalanced or OP at all, it was just the ONLY early/mid game harass protoss have.
Defending unwanted glitches, nothing is to silly to post right?
On July 08 2010 23:17 Xeken wrote: I think ultra dmg got a buff. I haven't played yet, but from editor data, it looks like there is a proc of 33% dmg within an arc of 45 degrees (the new one), and a proc of another 33% dmg within an arc of 180 degrees (the old one). Both have a range of 2. I am interpreting it as within 45 degrees, the dmg output will be 33% + 33%, and then outside of that arc, the dmg is 33%. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Hm interesting, someone should test this. I'm predicting we're gonna be seeing quite a lot from the ultralisk.
On July 08 2010 18:52 krell wrote: I believe the barracks build time has been increased to 65. (I'm 90% sure it was 60 before). I noted some other small changes:
Yea, I'm pretty sure it was 60 as well. I noticed all my timings were way off in the early game. +5 sec on rax -5 sec on pool 6 pool rebirth?
The control groups are different now. If you have made a control group, you cant just overwrite it by selecting other units and hitting shift - #, it will simply add those units to that control group.
Its pretty obnoxious, I don't know if thats intended or what...
On July 08 2010 18:52 krell wrote: I believe the barracks build time has been increased to 65. (I'm 90% sure it was 60 before). I noted some other small changes:
Yea, I'm pretty sure it was 60 as well. I noticed all my timings were way off in the early game. +5 sec on rax -5 sec on pool 6 pool rebirth?
Not against terran I don't think, you can probably still wall (or just maybe just micro a few SCVs over). Remember that if you don't instantly die to a 6pool, you win.
Against protoss it could be an issue ...
Though really, just thumbs down Steppes of War and the other 1 or 2 maps where it is actually possible (long rush distances or 4 spawn locations make 6 pool void).
On July 08 2010 23:37 FecalFrown wrote: The control groups are different now. If you have made a control group, you cant just overwrite it by selecting other units and hitting shift - #, it will simply add those units to that control group.
Its pretty obnoxious, I don't know if thats intended or what...
Been that way, its control - # to make a control group/overwrite it.
I must disagree with you. The island on Scrap Station is a very short blink distance from the bottom base, but I was not able to enter it. The distance is as short as a regular (on land) stalker blink, and I should have been able to get at least one stalker up there. I think they specifically made the edges of that island into a "no-Blink zone".
How is Protoss supposed to break a Terran turtling on an island with mass Vikings now? I guess mass VRs is my only option...
On July 08 2010 14:41 EssayReader wrote: Confirmed: Spawning Pool's building time is now 60 seconds (hence some of you may be seeing 88 gas instead of 100 gas when going 14gas/14pool since I did that too).
Update your roach patch changes. The hotkeys were NOT switched. Only the icons were switched. G is still Glial Reconstitution and T is still Tunneling claws.
On July 08 2010 23:49 InRaged wrote: +5 on reaper AND barracks? Why? It's a sad excuse of a unit now. Maybe there's some changes to it or it's upgrade that went unnoticed?
Have you ever tried dealing with a proxy 8rax or whatever the equivalent is now as protoss?
Reapers come in so fast its hard not to lose quite a few probes to them unless terran fucks up something major
EDIT : Can anyone confirm that vs the standard proxy reaper its possible to have a stalker(chronod?) out in time to stop it? Or do you still have to get a zealot also
Blizzard: Hey guys here's the patchnotes LOLNOTRLY.
Yeah fairly useless post but really... So many unmentioned changes really does seem a little rude. I'm sure someone at blizzard was taking notes or was it an opportunity for programmers to make their own balance changes and hope noone noticed?
Anyway I'm pretty happy with the changes, mentioned and not. I don't NP anyway.
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Yeah, being unable to tab through add-ons makes it really hard to do shit, you can't control if you want only marines in reactor barracks so you end up having to remove marines from other rax to make marauders in tech labs or new add-ons in normal barracks(or any building). It's really frustrating.
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Can you be more specific? How does it work now?
You don't tab through different add-ons, it makes it in the most 'efficient' building, which can often mean it spreads it across multile buildings instead of 2 in reactor for example. It's very annoying
i know how is used to work... but we cant tab from techlab -> reactor -> no add-on now? that means we almost need to have all tech labs in one group, reactors/no addons in another... sounds like this forces us to build marauders/ghosts first, else they get built behind marines...
This seems like it just will be annyoying right. Of course I'm assuming it still lets you tab to completely different structure. Let me explain that. Previously I would have all production buildings in the same control group, 9 for example. I push 9 and all of them show up but reactor tech appears first push tab then get reactor rax than again tech factory. (so on and so forth)
Now the way I read it when I push 9 all production buildings will still display but all raxes wether it has an addon or not, will be selected. So the way I see you having to do it now is have one hotkey for all reactor and vanilla buildings and one for everything with a techlab.
The real question I guess I'm getting at is does tabbing not work at all anymore?
On July 08 2010 12:53 DeCoup wrote: So with 5 rax (2 tech lab, 2 reactor, 1 no addon) I just press 4 (to select them) then ddaaaaa and I will get the 2 marauders are 5 marines? And if I press aaaaadd I will still get 5 marines and 2 marauders? That sounds like an improvement to me.
If this is indeed how it works then that is great but thats not how it reads to me
On July 08 2010 12:44 DM20 wrote: They changed the way MBS works with buildings, terran macro with different addons is kinda awkward now.
Can you be more specific? How does it work now?
You don't tab through different add-ons, it makes it in the most 'efficient' building, which can often mean it spreads it across multile buildings instead of 2 in reactor for example. It's very annoying
I haven't tested it yet. Can you not just say, I have 4 barracks with tech labs, and 4 barracks with reactors... so I will always build 4 marauders first then start building marines. ? If it works that way cleanly, it sounds better to me than the old way. And if it is that way it does force you to build tech units first, but that makes more sense because if you only need two marauders and the rest marines, you can still do that cleanly with the new system. Damn now I need to go test it out.
On July 08 2010 22:56 Illva wrote: The stalker not being able to blink up destro rocks is retarded, it made sence, you can see part of the ramp and a stalker can blink where it can see. It wasnt inbalanced or OP at all, it was just the ONLY early/mid game harass protoss have.
Defending unwanted glitches, nothing is to silly to post right?
On July 08 2010 23:17 Xeken wrote: I think ultra dmg got a buff. I haven't played yet, but from editor data, it looks like there is a proc of 33% dmg within an arc of 45 degrees (the new one), and a proc of another 33% dmg within an arc of 180 degrees (the old one). Both have a range of 2. I am interpreting it as within 45 degrees, the dmg output will be 33% + 33%, and then outside of that arc, the dmg is 33%. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Hm interesting, someone should test this. I'm predicting we're gonna be seeing quite a lot from the ultralisk.
Unwanted glitch? It is in NO WAY, a glitch. Its simply making smart use of a mechanic. If the rocks were square and no part of the ramp was visible I would agree that it didnt make sence but they arnt. By your logic you shouldnt be able to blink up normal ramps either if you dont hit the dead center? I mean, making the top corners unblinkable makes alot more sence..
On July 09 2010 00:20 Blacklizard wrote: I haven't tested it yet. Can you not just say, I have 4 barracks with tech labs, and 4 barracks with reactors... so I will always build 4 marauders first then start building marines. ? If it works that way cleanly, it sounds better to me than the old way. And if it is that way it does force you to build tech units first, but that makes more sense because if you only need two marauders and the rest marines, you can still do that cleanly with the new system. Damn now I need to go test it out.
But the issue comes up if say, I have 4 tech lab rax and 4 reactor rax and I want to build 3 marauders and then 8 rines from my reactor rax, there's no clean way to skip that one rax with a tech lab.
While you could argue that the marine gets built either way, it is not a good use of tech lab rax time as you may want to cue a reaper or ghost out of it sometime before your next macro cycle in reaction to something.
It just seems sloppy honestly, having different add-ons act as different building types made alot of sense from a macro-management perspective...
They just need to fix the initial queue. It queues 1 unit at each building first and then 2 unit at reactors and 1 at each other building, while the latter should always be the case.
On July 08 2010 23:51 cocosoft wrote: I've recognized a few new fonts. In tool tips for example.
Yea, they weren't done very well either. The numbers are waay to big for one (compared to before). When a unit completes, the number completed takes up like 1/2 the icon.
On July 08 2010 15:25 Intropy wrote: Roaches not burrowing under FF is pretty huge imo. Definitely ridiculous change, now Hydra is the only core unit that can effectively deal with FF midgame.
In my opinion, the biggest of the silent nerfs. Flabbergasting change. Makes no sense whatsoever.
I'm not a huge fan of the NP nerf either, but I'll have to see how that one turns out. Zerg really doesn't need a lot of nerfs right now, esp. against mech.
arb, I do agree that reaper was broken before, but this fix is as good as throwing reaper out of the game. I just don't believe they would ever change reaper like that. There just ought to be something else o_o
They should make them require the academy or something and buff their stats(like halve the gas cost). This way they can't be imba in rushes, while they'll be useful later in the game.
Yeah, absolutely nobody used the Reaper for anything but early harass, and now that's even harder?
The Reaper really went from a very interesting concept and unit to almost entirely useless pretty fast. If anything, the Reaper should be buffed with some sort of upgrade, making it viable mid-game.
On July 09 2010 00:24 PanzerDragoon wrote: That is a HUGE nerf to blink. Don't even think its worth researching anymore
It is.
I still use it to great success.
Stalkers were still the norm even before people started abusing island/rock blinks.
On July 09 2010 00:40 Orange Goblin wrote: Yeah, absolutely nobody used the Reaper for anything but early harass, and now that's even harder?
The Reaper really went from a very interesting concept and unit to almost entirely useless pretty fast. If anything, the Reaper should be buffed with some sort of upgrade, making it viable mid-game.
The reaper does have an upgrade that makes it viable midgame.
They even halved the cost in one of the most recent Phase1 patches.
I can confirm that zealots have had 5 seconds added to their build time. Ridiculous.. no more two gating, and even one gate pressure has been limited. An attack with two or three zealots will come 10 and 15 seconds later respectively off of one gate. That is huge change this late into the beta and is likely to significantly alter the PvZ matchup.
The blink change is alright.. I've felt that blinking to high ground blocked by rocks and traversing long distances across chasms is a bit gimmicy.
But the fact that Blizzard didn't put any of these changes into patch note is also ridiculous.
Edit: I realized that because build times apply for the normal, not the faster, speed setting, a zealot doesn't actually build five seconds slower, and so the delayed attack times are incorrect. However it is still a significant nerf.
To be fair, Zerg basically lost it's ability to dictate aggression early game after the big roach nerfs. I'm sure this is supposed to be some sort of evening out. Might work well. Two-gating against Z was pretty damn strong.
Oh, and come on. Reapers aren't viable mid-late game.
On July 08 2010 22:56 Illva wrote: What is going on at blizzard? Its kinda obv that all the "anoying" and slightly difficult things terran has to deal with gets fixed. I mean: Thor splash against muta, void ray range nerf, tech getting cheaper (like stim etc).
Doesnt anyone over there realise that terran might not be winning right now, but they are the race with by far the biggest potential. Its going to be all terran wins until HotS if they continue like this. I mean EMP alone is a cheaper, faster, longer range spell than feedback/storm and it does both in 1. Its unit can also attack and cloak.
The stalker not being able to blink up destro rocks is retarded, it made sence, you can see part of the ramp and a stalker can blink where it can see. It wasnt inbalanced or OP at all, it was just the ONLY early/mid game harass protoss have.
I guess harassing is reserved for terran with tanks and their range towards steppes nat for example, reapers, cloaked banshee, viking landing etc. all which are alot earlier than anything that protoss can do like storm drop or maybe phoenix lift.
Two gate versus zerg was just fine, and tbh the only tactics that made the matchup balanced. Now its easy FE for zerg which means that their midgame push is going to overrun protoss.
The change might have been needed for other reason but why does it feel like terran gets the creative buffs/nerf where the other races just gets the nurfbat which will create imbalanced in other places not intended?
Zerg/Terran domination until the expansion or possible even the protoss expansion. Im playing terran for sure. I feel so much more relaxed with knowing that if I scout well (reapers/scans etc) I can always get a strong counter.
mate, don't you realise that there's been like 1 week of playtime since tanks had their damage reduced by 20% ?
blizzard will not risk 'over nerfing'.
i agree that protoss are having a very hard time against terran, can't seem to find any high level replay where the protoss was able to get any control past the early game in that matchup... just exploit voidray until it's fixed i guess.
The zealot nerf is absolutely retarded, pretty much makes PvZ on maps like Steppes unplayable if they decide they want a free win because even 10pylon-10gate with a chrono'd zealout is no where near done by the time a 6pool's set of lings arrive.
On July 09 2010 01:06 Keren wrote: The zealot nerf is absolutely retarded, pretty much makes PvZ on maps like Steppes unplayable if they decide they want a free win because even 10pylon-10gate with a chrono'd zealout is no where near done by the time a 6pool's set of lings arrive.
Indeed it was hard enough to win before, usually this would almost 100% be followed up by banelings that were almost impossible to stop
hopefully some silent zerg nerf has been done And yes maybe nerfing the rax and the reaper was a bit extreme, they should have did one or the other imo
The NP nerf is devistating for ZvT. More importantly, it makes no sense...it'd be one thing if it was just a spell that allowed the Infestor to run away or recast something else afterward...but it ties up the unit...there's no reason for any time limit, especially one that short. If it is to prevent abuse, it should be made to last 20-30 seconds, ensuring that any major battle finished.
I can't believe Blizzard would add 20% to the zealot cooldown time (or 15% to the build time) and not mention it in the patch notes. What's up with that?
Does NP really only last 12 seconds now? Because they even added in an achievement for warping in a zealot while playing zerg, which makes me think you're supposed to NP a probe and throw down a gateway.
Some of these changes seems bad, others seem downright idiotic.
On July 09 2010 01:06 Keren wrote: The zealot nerf is absolutely retarded, pretty much makes PvZ on maps like Steppes unplayable if they decide they want a free win because even 10pylon-10gate with a chrono'd zealout is no where near done by the time a 6pool's set of lings arrive.
Indeed it was hard enough to win before, usually this would almost 100% be followed up by banelings that were almost impossible to stop
hopefully some silent zerg nerf has been done
dont see the huge problem. there is one map with close enough rush distances for it to even matter a tiny bit. and if you really really have such huge problems with it why not simply wall of?
do standart wall and if they really arive super early just do a fullblock with another pylon or stall the 5 secs with probes.
i really dont understand why people call "OMG UNBEATABLE IMBA!" before playing,testing or even thinking for a second about it.
and why should banelings after a 6pool be hard to stop in any way? do you realise how low the drone count and how late the gas is after a 6pool?
On July 09 2010 01:28 Graven wrote: The NP nerf is devistating for ZvT. More importantly, it makes no sense...it'd be one thing if it was just a spell that allowed the Infestor to run away or recast something else afterward...but it ties up the unit...there's no reason for any time limit, especially one that short. If it is to prevent abuse, it should be made to last 20-30 seconds, ensuring that any major battle finished.
They decided that infinity was too long, making it longer so that it would last until any major battles are over would be redundant.
Confirmed that the only think about blink that was changed was the bug about blink range: they can still blink to unpathable areas as long as it is within range.
Also, the new MBS for terran is awesome except for the reactor bug where only one guy gets queued there until the tech labs are full.
I just don't appreciate how they changed so much without telling us in the patch notes. I thought the game was pretty well balanced pre-phase 2 and these changes may disrupt the balance.
On July 09 2010 01:35 Postman wrote: Does NP really only last 12 seconds now? Because they even added in an achievement for warping in a zealot while playing zerg, which makes me think you're supposed to NP a probe and throw down a gateway.
Or, you know, throw down a Nexus. Or first a Pylon and a Gateway with another NP. With an infinite NP that wouldn't really be much of an achievement
I don't really see what the big issue is with a duration after which the battle is decided anyway.
I gotta say some of these changes i just don't get, but oh well i have yet to really get any games in so i can't speak from experience that they make that huge of a difference, i can agree with some of the other people here that the zealot time increase is going to make early game pvz so much harder, but im hoping that someone will find something clever to do to keep us alive or that the change won't be as dramatic as we all think
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: Overlord Generate Creep sound effect seems much quieter
I personally like this change, because sometimes i'd just select all my Overlords and start spewing creep but the sound of all overlords taking a dump in unison was too loud for the rest of the sound effects.
On July 09 2010 01:48 Cajun2k1 wrote: Don't know if this is a bug or not, but Stalkers with blinkupgrade can still blink when they've been fungal growth'd.
On July 09 2010 01:48 Cajun2k1 wrote: Don't know if this is a bug or not, but Stalkers with blinkupgrade can still blink when they've been fungal growth'd.
And vikings have always been able to lift off when FG'd, this is probably intentional...
A question on the roaches not being able to go under forcefields. How does this effect any game play what so ever? If the protoss sees your army burrowed with an observer wont he just shoot at you and make you come up anyways? If he does not have an observer how will he predict forcefields to stop them from coming up anyways? Even if you use it as a retreat option, the only way I ever see this hurting zerg is if an observer is on its way and the toss is perma fielding your own ramp.
Sadly, the zealot build time increase is likely due to the overnerfing of marine build time which was never changed back (despite SCVs being fodder still). Hilarious that they wouldn't even factor zerg into this equation at all, though.
Stalkers not being able to blink to islands is annoying. I remember using that on more than one occasion to break mass turreted island expansions on LT, whereas the only alternative is really carriers in that situation.
On July 09 2010 01:48 Cajun2k1 wrote: Don't know if this is a bug or not, but Stalkers with blinkupgrade can still blink when they've been fungal growth'd.
And vikings have always been able to lift off when FG'd, this is probably intentional...
I'm sure it might make sense, balancing-wise, but if getting off a FG means stopping things because of excessive fungal growth, then how on earth are those Vikings able to do a transformers-move and lift off? It's a bit strange. Blink makes sense, however.
But hey, it's the balancing that is important, not the logic of the units. Although it would be nice if both was intact after everything was said and done.
Stalkers not being able to blink to islands is annoying. I remember using that on more than one occasion to break mass turreted island expansions on LT, whereas the only alternative is really carriers in that situation.
On July 09 2010 01:55 QibingZero wrote: Sadly, the zealot build time increase is likely due to the overnerfing of marine build time which was never changed back (despite SCVs being fodder still). Hilarious that they wouldn't even factor zerg into this equation at all, though.
Stalkers not being able to blink to islands is annoying. I remember using that on more than one occasion to break mass turreted island expansions on LT, whereas the only alternative is really carriers in that situation.
Really now, how is Zerg not factored in? Just because you can't always dictate the game from the get-go doesn't mean that it's broken.
On July 09 2010 01:55 QibingZero wrote: Sadly, the zealot build time increase is likely due to the overnerfing of marine build time which was never changed back (despite SCVs being fodder still). Hilarious that they wouldn't even factor zerg into this equation at all, though.
Zealots have been fine forever though XD why nerf them now and screw up everyones timings?
On July 09 2010 01:54 dbizzle wrote: A question on the roaches not being able to go under forcefields. How does this effect any game play what so ever? If the protoss sees your army burrowed with an observer wont he just shoot at you and make you come up anyways? If he does not have an observer how will he predict forcefields to stop them from coming up anyways? Even if you use it as a retreat option, the only way I ever see this hurting zerg is if an observer is on its way and the toss is perma fielding your own ramp.
its for when the roach army is engaging the protoss army and then the roaches get split by FF. you can burrow and regroup to continue the attack while the protoss doesn't have time to recover like he wanted with FF
Not sure if anyone else has posted it yet, but in game when the cursor is over unit and it now not only shows mineral cost gas cost and build time but it also says if it attacks ground only air only or both
On July 09 2010 01:54 dbizzle wrote: A question on the roaches not being able to go under forcefields. How does this effect any game play what so ever? If the protoss sees your army burrowed with an observer wont he just shoot at you and make you come up anyways? If he does not have an observer how will he predict forcefields to stop them from coming up anyways? Even if you use it as a retreat option, the only way I ever see this hurting zerg is if an observer is on its way and the toss is perma fielding your own ramp.
In the heat of battle, burrow moving the roaches was always good for the regen and also to pop up under the colossus. Random forcefields prevent this now, which burrow should logically be able to go under.
I highly doubt the zealot nerf had anything to do with Terran who are already very strong against Protoss. It is almost certainly because of early Zealot pressure against Zerg.
On July 09 2010 01:54 dbizzle wrote: A question on the roaches not being able to go under forcefields. How does this effect any game play what so ever? If the protoss sees your army burrowed with an observer wont he just shoot at you and make you come up anyways? If he does not have an observer how will he predict forcefields to stop them from coming up anyways? Even if you use it as a retreat option, the only way I ever see this hurting zerg is if an observer is on its way and the toss is perma fielding your own ramp.
its for when the roach army is engaging the protoss army and then the roaches get split by FF. you can burrow and regroup to continue the attack while the protoss doesn't have time to recover like he wanted with FF
so in a sense, forcefield is overpowered?
You are saying taht the protoss should be allowd to dictate the entire battle because they make sentries, but zerg arent when they upgrade their roaches?
On July 09 2010 01:28 Graven wrote: The NP nerf is devistating for ZvT. More importantly, it makes no sense...it'd be one thing if it was just a spell that allowed the Infestor to run away or recast something else afterward...but it ties up the unit...there's no reason for any time limit, especially one that short. If it is to prevent abuse, it should be made to last 20-30 seconds, ensuring that any major battle finished.
They decided that infinity was too long, making it longer so that it would last until any major battles are over would be redundant.
Not at all...it would prevent someone NP'ing and unit and leaving it their base indefinetely...or stealing a drop ship and then waiting a few minutes for your army to get to the point and kill it.
On July 09 2010 01:41 theDragoon wrote: I just don't appreciate how they changed so much without telling us in the patch notes. I thought the game was pretty well balanced pre-phase 2 and these changes may disrupt the balance.
They're trying new things. It's a beta. They'll keep making changes for the next yr+.
Also dont like that roaches cant burrow underneath FF anymore, they move slow as hell when burred and its not like observers are unavailable at the point where roach burrow comes into play, ultralisks are though.
Someone mentioned WG -> GW now takes 10 seconds, instead of 3. Is that confirmed? Coupled with the Zealot build time nerf that really fucks up the cool swapping trick
Edit: Yup, later posts confirmed it takes 10s to switch (both directions), and the cooldown is paused when its not in WG form.
On July 09 2010 01:41 theDragoon wrote: I just don't appreciate how they changed so much without telling us in the patch notes. I thought the game was pretty well balanced pre-phase 2 and these changes may disrupt the balance.
They're trying new things. It's a beta. They'll keep making changes for the next yr+.
agree. but i also think they should put evrything that affects gameplay in the patch notes.
On July 09 2010 01:41 theDragoon wrote: I just don't appreciate how they changed so much without telling us in the patch notes. I thought the game was pretty well balanced pre-phase 2 and these changes may disrupt the balance.
They're trying new things. It's a beta. They'll keep making changes for the next yr+.
To be honest
they could try new things after retail release too. It's just for the past couple of months, they could've like drastically changed a race and see how they fare and try things from that.
But haven't really done anything super drastically, other then huge balance changes and thats it. They could've add more units, less units, replace, swap, remove, yada yada but no, they just keep things how they were and modify it.
not sure if this has been said but it seems as though u dont have to restart sc when making graphical changes and when a teammate leaves in a 2v2 or 3v3 or 4v4, the resources will be split between the remaining players
If the zealot nerf stays - which by the way... Why in the world would they even do that? The two-gate pressure vs zerg was just that... pressure. Roaches totally nullify it anyway.
But it really kills my ability to hold off the mid-game timing push with marine/marauder/ghost. Marauder has a 30 second build time, what the hell? This was already a brutal timing push they pulled off, going to be even more difficult to handle now.
Blizzard doesn't make sense. The community (including the TL community) voted Terran as the most OP race, so what happens? PROTOSS NERFS. When a thread on TL was bumped asking users which race they thought was most powerful, 400 votes went to Terran while only 150 were divided between the other two.
Fucking Terran. Will Blizzard get what's going on when 60% of diamond users eventually switch to Terran? Already started to happen near the end of phase 1.
Dear god wtf I need to log in to be able to use map editor? What the fuck? I hoped they would add offline option in the 2nd phase...
I've noticed something else in ZealousD's video - transporters no longer clump above single point when told to unload, I'm pretty sure they always had to. I wonder if there is trick similar to BW clicking unload on top of transporters so they can do this while moving?
I remember reading about a month ago on here, someone mentioned that Browder said (who's friend's cousin's former roommate who once went on a date with Kevin Bacon, said...) they were looking into PvP and the problem that you needed to match your opponent's number of gateways early in the game, or you had a massive chance of losing.
I think the Zealot nerf is a result of that, and the Reaper/Barracks build time change a result of that...did they forget about Zerg or something?
On July 09 2010 01:54 dbizzle wrote: A question on the roaches not being able to go under forcefields. How does this effect any game play what so ever? If the protoss sees your army burrowed with an observer wont he just shoot at you and make you come up anyways? If he does not have an observer how will he predict forcefields to stop them from coming up anyways? Even if you use it as a retreat option, the only way I ever see this hurting zerg is if an observer is on its way and the toss is perma fielding your own ramp.
its for when the roach army is engaging the protoss army and then the roaches get split by FF. you can burrow and regroup to continue the attack while the protoss doesn't have time to recover like he wanted with FF
so in a sense, forcefield is overpowered?
You are saying taht the protoss should be allowd to dictate the entire battle because they make sentries, but zerg arent when they upgrade their roaches?
This doesnt make sense
oh i was just explaining why burrowing under FF is useful. i totally agree with you that roaches should be able to move underneath.
On July 09 2010 01:54 dbizzle wrote: A question on the roaches not being able to go under forcefields. How does this effect any game play what so ever? If the protoss sees your army burrowed with an observer wont he just shoot at you and make you come up anyways? If he does not have an observer how will he predict forcefields to stop them from coming up anyways? Even if you use it as a retreat option, the only way I ever see this hurting zerg is if an observer is on its way and the toss is perma fielding your own ramp.
its for when the roach army is engaging the protoss army and then the roaches get split by FF. you can burrow and regroup to continue the attack while the protoss doesn't have time to recover like he wanted with FF
so in a sense, forcefield is overpowered?
You are saying taht the protoss should be allowd to dictate the entire battle because they make sentries, but zerg arent when they upgrade their roaches?
This doesnt make sense
oh i was just explaining why burrowing under FF is useful. i totally agree with you that roaches should be able to move underneath.
GAWD, ITS NOT LIKE WE CAN BRING A DETECTOR WITH OUR ARMY TO SPOT THEM
Roaches can move under Supply Depots that have been dropped. They can't move under Supply Depots that have been raised. Coincidence? If you can move over the terrain regularly, you can burrow move under the terrain. Ever wonder why you can't burrow move under Destructible rocks?
- No Patch Notes.
They only show the most recent Patch Notes. Over the month that passed, I'm going to bet that there were 5 or 6 Patch Notes. Are they really going to post all 5 or 6 of them? especially if they overlap? No.
On July 09 2010 02:40 Bibdy wrote: I remember reading about a month ago on here, someone mentioned that Browder said (who's friend's cousin's former roommate who once went on a date with Kevin Bacon, said...) they were looking into PvP and the problem that you needed to match your opponent's number of gateways early in the game, or you had a massive chance of losing.
I think the Zealot nerf is a result of that, and the Reaper/Barracks build time change a result of that...did they forget about Zerg or something?
You'd think if it were just that... they wouldn't of nerfed the cooldown period for a zealot warping in though - because you dont have to match zealots anymore after that early game.
On July 09 2010 02:40 Bibdy wrote: I remember reading about a month ago on here, someone mentioned that Browder said (who's friend's cousin's former roommate who once went on a date with Kevin Bacon, said...) they were looking into PvP and the problem that you needed to match your opponent's number of gateways early in the game, or you had a massive chance of losing.
I think the Zealot nerf is a result of that, and the Reaper/Barracks build time change a result of that...did they forget about Zerg or something?
You'd think if it were just that... they wouldn't of nerfed the cooldown period for a zealot warping in though - because you dont have to match zealots anymore after that early game.
Its in the period prior to Warp-Gate tech. If someone 2-Gates you, you have to build another Gateway yourself, quickly, make a choke out of the buildings and either try to match the Zealot count, get a Cannon (hah), or bee-line for Stalkers/Sentries.
The Zealot build time nerf would make it easier to get Stalkers/Sentries out before there's a critical mass number of Zealots smashing down your front door.
So Zealots take longer to make, you can't do the re-gating thing, you can't do cool tricks with Blink any more, and you can't use Hallucinations to break enemy FFs, while the Voidray target-spam damage boost thing now works if they are charged? I guess they just really want Protoss to make Voidrays every game :/
I honestly really love the critters though. And the fact that they are actively improving the graphics is awesome.
On July 09 2010 02:47 vica wrote: - Roaches can't move under Force Fields.
Roaches can move under Supply Depots that have been dropped. They can't move under Supply Depots that have been raised. Coincidence? If you can move over the terrain regularly, you can burrow move under the terrain. Ever wonder why you can't burrow move under Destructible rocks?
- No Patch Notes.
They only show the most recent Patch Notes. Over the month that passed, I'm going to bet that there were 5 or 6 Patch Notes. Are they really going to post all 5 or 6 of them? especially if they overlap? No.
Who cares how many there are? I can understand critters not being listed but things like NP nerf or times to make a unit or building? Blink fix is significant too. I don't understand how can they not include those, I can only guess they made it too automated for themselves.
There have been rumors that Spawning Pools build faster now, but according to my tests, I can confirm it is still exactly 65 in-game seconds same as always.
I believe this rumor came about because people were noticing they didn't have enough gas while trying to time zergling speed upgrade for when spawning pool finishes.
Could it be that refinery now takes longer to build? I'm on EU so I cant check myself.
I mention this because people are asking where zergs early game nerf is. This could be it.
They only show the most recent Patch Notes. Over the month that passed, I'm going to bet that there were 5 or 6 Patch Notes. Are they really going to post all 5 or 6 of them? especially if they overlap? No.
Of course they should. Someone at Blizzard should know exactly what has changed since the end of phase 1. The patch notes they posted are worthless.
On July 09 2010 01:54 dbizzle wrote: A question on the roaches not being able to go under forcefields. How does this effect any game play what so ever? If the protoss sees your army burrowed with an observer wont he just shoot at you and make you come up anyways? If he does not have an observer how will he predict forcefields to stop them from coming up anyways? Even if you use it as a retreat option, the only way I ever see this hurting zerg is if an observer is on its way and the toss is perma fielding your own ramp.
its for when the roach army is engaging the protoss army and then the roaches get split by FF. you can burrow and regroup to continue the attack while the protoss doesn't have time to recover like he wanted with FF
so in a sense, forcefield is overpowered?
You are saying taht the protoss should be allowd to dictate the entire battle because they make sentries, but zerg arent when they upgrade their roaches?
On July 09 2010 02:40 Bibdy wrote: I remember reading about a month ago on here, someone mentioned that Browder said (who's friend's cousin's former roommate who once went on a date with Kevin Bacon, said...) they were looking into PvP and the problem that you needed to match your opponent's number of gateways early in the game, or you had a massive chance of losing.
I think the Zealot nerf is a result of that, and the Reaper/Barracks build time change a result of that...did they forget about Zerg or something?
You'd think if it were just that... they wouldn't of nerfed the cooldown period for a zealot warping in though - because you dont have to match zealots anymore after that early game.
Its in the period prior to Warp-Gate tech. If someone 2-Gates you, you have to build another Gateway yourself, quickly, make a choke out of the buildings and either try to match the Zealot count, get a Cannon (hah), or bee-line for Stalkers/Sentries.
The Zealot build time nerf would make it easier to get Stalkers/Sentries out before there's a critical mass number of Zealots smashing down your front door.
Right, I think that'd be some kind of justification if only the build time inside of the gateway was nerfed, but to also nerf the build time of zealots warping in from warp gates goes beyond the early-game zealot matching.
There have been rumors that Spawning Pools build faster now, but according to my tests, I can confirm it is still exactly 65 in-game seconds same as always.
I believe this rumor came about because people were noticing they didn't have enough gas while trying to time zergling speed upgrade for when spawning pool finishes.
Could it be that refinery now takes longer to build? I'm on EU so I cant check myself.
They might have noticed it, because their 6Pools are smashing through Protoss doorways much easier now that the first Zealot shows up 5 seconds later
On July 09 2010 02:40 Bibdy wrote: I remember reading about a month ago on here, someone mentioned that Browder said (who's friend's cousin's former roommate who once went on a date with Kevin Bacon, said...) they were looking into PvP and the problem that you needed to match your opponent's number of gateways early in the game, or you had a massive chance of losing.
I think the Zealot nerf is a result of that, and the Reaper/Barracks build time change a result of that...did they forget about Zerg or something?
You'd think if it were just that... they wouldn't of nerfed the cooldown period for a zealot warping in though - because you dont have to match zealots anymore after that early game.
Its in the period prior to Warp-Gate tech. If someone 2-Gates you, you have to build another Gateway yourself, quickly, make a choke out of the buildings and either try to match the Zealot count, get a Cannon (hah), or bee-line for Stalkers/Sentries.
The Zealot build time nerf would make it easier to get Stalkers/Sentries out before there's a critical mass number of Zealots smashing down your front door.
Right, I think that'd be some kind of justification if only the build time inside of the gateway was nerfed, but to also nerf the build time of zealots warping in from warp gates goes beyond the early-game zealot matching.
Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, its a bit heavy handed, but the general rule for Warp Gate cooldowns is the original cooldown minus 10 seconds, so you'd lose some consistency...but, you know Blizzard. They've clung to one ruleset for PvP and PvE in WoW, even though its made it a nightmare for both, just because they want consistency.
marine shield upgrade icon has been changed the smoke in the bases of metalopolis is much larger now the shape of the smoke on scrap station was changed also, but it seems to be aesthetic rather than functional change
On July 09 2010 02:36 TimeToPractice! wrote: If the zealot nerf stays - which by the way... Why in the world would they even do that? The two-gate pressure vs zerg was just that... pressure. Roaches totally nullify it anyway.
But it really kills my ability to hold off the mid-game timing push with marine/marauder/ghost. Marauder has a 30 second build time, what the hell? This was already a brutal timing push they pulled off, going to be even more difficult to handle now.
Blizzard doesn't make sense. The community (including the TL community) voted Terran as the most OP race, so what happens? PROTOSS NERFS. When a thread on TL was bumped asking users which race they thought was most powerful, 400 votes went to Terran while only 150 were divided between the other two.
Fucking Terran. Will Blizzard get what's going on when 60% of diamond users eventually switch to Terran? Already started to happen near the end of phase 1.
This annoys me quite a bit. Numbers say terran is struggling, so naturally they get buffed. I do think Terran still has great potential, but so do zerg and protoss. If the time comes that terran starts to pull ahead of the other 2 races, I'm sure Blizzard will take actions against Terran just like they have been trying to do infavour of Terran.
The zealot nerf really surprises me. I play terran so I haven't done ZvP, but was the 2gate preassure really that harsh that zerg couldn't hold it enough to have gained macro advantage? This seems like quite a huge change, changing all MUs and timings where P is involved... The NP nerf also catches me a bit offguard, I think 12 sec is a bit to short, 15-20sec I reckon would be better time. I don't fancy reapers much and therefor normally don't proxy early reapers, so I just wonder if they were really that good that they needed a nerf... The few times I've actually done it, the stalker could come out early enough to make the harrash not worth it, depending on the micro of both players. Not done it vZ so yer dunno about that MU. The infested terran buff might become a bit interesting. That being said, I wonder if double FGing mineral line wont always be better than dropping down 6 infested terrans.
Baneling model changed: now have more of your color (if you're blue it's more blue). ^ I think this is awesome! It looks great on my... custom low/medium setting
Ultras get +2 and +2 vs armored per upgrade, instead of +3 per upgrade.
Hum... that would really leave anti-small units for zerglings and baneling.
There is now a 1 second cooldown for Transfusion from the Queen. With the Creep Tumor cooldown=doubled change, I'm starting to think I shouldn't have sent Day9 those reps lolol
Oh sht! I don't mind the transfusion coolddown, but omg will IdrA rage when he discovers that he can't creep out as fast! :O double the cooldown is a major nerf for those who wants to creep really fast, though it won't change that much the overall balance. Guess we just have to get used to it :/
Neural Parasite lasts about 12-ish in-game seconds.
I.. don't mind the 12 seconds duration because my infestors die anyway b4 that, but at least make it 75 energy or something, because now it just tells me that fungal growth >>> NP instead of FG > NP Roaches can no longer move under Force Fields while burrowed!!!!
burrowing roach shenanigans with FF
Hum.. interesting, no more retreating for zerg, and no more sneaking through a FF... I think that'll mean more Ultra play IMO. And with the always frenzied ultras now, it's really powerful
Infested Terrans lasts 30 seconds (up from 20). Infested Terran spell can now be cast while Infestor is Burrowed.
ohhh finally, this change is really something for small drops! without raven or scan, you can sneak into a tank line and spew infested terran all over.. wait have to check woot!
On July 09 2010 01:54 dbizzle wrote: A question on the roaches not being able to go under forcefields. How does this effect any game play what so ever? If the protoss sees your army burrowed with an observer wont he just shoot at you and make you come up anyways? If he does not have an observer how will he predict forcefields to stop them from coming up anyways? Even if you use it as a retreat option, the only way I ever see this hurting zerg is if an observer is on its way and the toss is perma fielding your own ramp.
its for when the roach army is engaging the protoss army and then the roaches get split by FF. you can burrow and regroup to continue the attack while the protoss doesn't have time to recover like he wanted with FF
so in a sense, forcefield is overpowered?
You are saying taht the protoss should be allowd to dictate the entire battle because they make sentries, but zerg arent when they upgrade their roaches?
This doesnt make sense
A thousand times this.
They can still dictate the battle with fungal growth though.
On July 09 2010 02:36 TimeToPractice! wrote: If the zealot nerf stays - which by the way... Why in the world would they even do that? The two-gate pressure vs zerg was just that... pressure. Roaches totally nullify it anyway.
But it really kills my ability to hold off the mid-game timing push with marine/marauder/ghost. Marauder has a 30 second build time, what the hell? This was already a brutal timing push they pulled off, going to be even more difficult to handle now.
Blizzard doesn't make sense. The community (including the TL community) voted Terran as the most OP race, so what happens? PROTOSS NERFS. When a thread on TL was bumped asking users which race they thought was most powerful, 400 votes went to Terran while only 150 were divided between the other two.
Fucking Terran. Will Blizzard get what's going on when 60% of diamond users eventually switch to Terran? Already started to happen near the end of phase 1.
This annoys me quite a bit. Numbers say terran is struggling, so naturally they get buffed. I do think Terran still has great potential, but so do zerg and protoss. If the time comes that terran starts to pull ahead of the other 2 races, I'm sure Blizzard will take actions against Terran just like they have been trying to do infavour of Terran.
The zealot nerf really surprises me. I play terran so I haven't done ZvP, but was the 2gate preassure really that harsh that zerg couldn't hold it enough to have gained macro advantage? This seems like quite a huge change, changing all MUs and timings where P is involved... The NP nerf also catches me a bit offguard, I think 12 sec is a bit to short, 15-20sec I reckon would be better time. I don't fancy reapers much and therefor normally don't proxy early reapers, so I just wonder if they were really that good that they needed a nerf... The few times I've actually done it, the stalker could come out early enough to make the harrash not worth it, depending on the micro of both players. Not done it vZ so yer dunno about that MU. The infested terran buff might become a bit interesting. That being said, I wonder if double FGing mineral line wont always be better than dropping down 6 infested terrans.
What numbers? I swear to god if you quote the dev chat from back in fricking APRIL I will use all of the powers of RealID to find you and punch you up the bracket.
There is now a 1 second cooldown for Transfusion from the Queen. With the Creep Tumor cooldown=doubled change, I'm starting to think I shouldn't have sent Day9 those reps lolol
Oh sht! I don't mind the transfusion coolddown, but omg will IdrA rage when he discovers that he can't creep out as fast! :O double the cooldown is a major nerf for those who wants to creep really fast, though it won't change that much the overall balance. Guess we just have to get used to it :/
I.. don't mind the 12 seconds duration because my infestors die anyway b4 that, but at least make it 75 energy or something, because now it just tells me that fungal growth >>> NP instead of FG > NP Roaches can no longer move under Force Fields while burrowed!!!!
Hum.. interesting, no more retreating for zerg, and no more sneaking through a FF... I think that'll mean more Ultra play IMO. And with the always frenzied ultras now, it's really powerful
Infested Terrans lasts 30 seconds (up from 20). Infested Terran spell can now be cast while Infestor is Burrowed.
ohhh finally, this change is really something for small drops! without raven or scan, you can sneak into a tank line and spew infested terran all over.. wait have to check woot!
Overall good patch for zerg
lol what? good patch for vs zerg you mean... NP nerf was unfounded, roach nerf was ridiculous, rally change screws nydus over... What was good for z? a t3 unit was slightly buffed and thats it. Infested Terran is pointless, fungal is way better, ITs will never be used competitively. Buffing ultras doesn't help out if all of the midgame stuff is bad. Oh yea, and creep tumor nerf? wtf is that...
On July 09 2010 03:11 dhe95 wrote: Cybernetics core costs 150 minerals now? or was it always like that
always costed that
and people bitching about the baneling nerf are just trolls i was watching psyonics stream as he killed banelings one at a time and they kept moving they DO NOT BLOW EACH OTHER UP
hellions no longer freeze when in range of ling when hunting on attack move, quite major
scvs no longer get "i cant build there" when going to build a building somewhere but gets intercoupted by a land or a tech lab reactor going down to make them move. this makes macro easier cause u wont have to reassign scvs what to build after being issues move by a structure going down
On July 09 2010 01:55 QibingZero wrote: Sadly, the zealot build time increase is likely due to the overnerfing of marine build time which was never changed back (despite SCVs being fodder still). Hilarious that they wouldn't even factor zerg into this equation at all, though.
Zealots have been fine forever though XD why nerf them now and screw up everyones timings?
The game's not out yet, there are no such thing as "timings' yet.
On July 09 2010 03:16 arb wrote: and people bitching about the baneling nerf are just trolls i was watching psyonics stream as he killed banelings one at a time and they kept moving they DO NOT BLOW EACH OTHER UP
Confirmed on the editor. Why do ppl say those things :/
Stalkers can no longer blink up cliffs blocked by rocks without vision, nor are they able to blink across unpassable terrain (i.e. can no longer blink to islands) Someone confirmed this to be false
Just for clarification, where was the stalkers blinking to islands tested?
Looked back a bit but can't find the post, just mentioning as if it was Extinction then the islands there have a small ledge in between which is most definitely passable terrain seeing as you can even jump reapers down there then up on to the 'island'.
On July 09 2010 02:03 Noev wrote: Not sure if anyone else has posted it yet, but in game when the cursor is over unit and it now not only shows mineral cost gas cost and build time but it also says if it attacks ground only air only or both
On July 09 2010 03:16 MorroW wrote: hellions no longer freeze when in range of ling when hunting on attack move, quite major
scvs no longer get "i cant build there" when going to build a building somewhere but gets intercoupted by a land or a tech lab reactor going down to make them move. this makes macro easier cause u wont have to reassign scvs what to build after being issues move by a structure going down
Holy cow, really? No more annoying targeting pause for Hellions? Is it finally going to be possible to get some true Vulture-style micro going with them?
On July 09 2010 03:16 MorroW wrote: hellions no longer freeze when in range of ling when hunting on attack move, quite major
scvs no longer get "i cant build there" when going to build a building somewhere but gets intercoupted by a land or a tech lab reactor going down to make them move. this makes macro easier cause u wont have to reassign scvs what to build after being issues move by a structure going down
Holy cow, really? No more annoying targeting pause for Hellions? Is it finally going to be possible to get some true Vulture-style micro going with them?
I don't quite understand what's being said. now you can A-move and still get off fast shots on lings making hellion micro possible for us gold league guys?
Stalkers can no longer blink up cliffs blocked by rocks without vision, nor are they able to blink across unpassable terrain (i.e. can no longer blink to islands) Someone confirmed this to be false
Just for clarification, where was the stalkers blinking to islands tested?
Looked back a bit but can't find the post, just mentioning as if it was Extinction then the islands there have a small ledge in between which is most definitely passable terrain seeing as you can even jump reapers down there then up on to the 'island'.
There was a bug where Stalkers could Blink over impassable terrain much further than they could over solid ground. That was the only thing that was fixed. Because some people noticed they could no longer Blink over specific gaps, like islands on Metalopolis or gaps between bases on LT, they assumed it applied to everything.
So, in general, Blink is the same, you just can't erroneously Blink over certain abnormally large gaps anymore.
On July 09 2010 03:16 MorroW wrote: hellions no longer freeze when in range of ling when hunting on attack move, quite major
scvs no longer get "i cant build there" when going to build a building somewhere but gets intercoupted by a land or a tech lab reactor going down to make them move. this makes macro easier cause u wont have to reassign scvs what to build after being issues move by a structure going down
Holy cow, really? No more annoying targeting pause for Hellions? Is it finally going to be possible to get some true Vulture-style micro going with them?
they still got cast time, just now if they are hunting a target and gets inrange to do the attack and the enemy move away longer and cooldown is not active, it actually attacks instead of hunting for ever and stopping but never attacking i dont believe even 1% of the players knew about this bug but its gone now anyways and it makes things easier
found another thing
cargo interface stretches out icons to overtake the icons underneath it rather than removing icons and keeping same size of icons. so the cargo icons work like sc1 now
Ultras get +2 and +2 vs armored per upgrade, instead of +3 per upgrade.
Hum... that would really leave anti-small units for zerglings and baneling.
There is now a 1 second cooldown for Transfusion from the Queen. With the Creep Tumor cooldown=doubled change, I'm starting to think I shouldn't have sent Day9 those reps lolol
Oh sht! I don't mind the transfusion coolddown, but omg will IdrA rage when he discovers that he can't creep out as fast! :O double the cooldown is a major nerf for those who wants to creep really fast, though it won't change that much the overall balance. Guess we just have to get used to it :/
Neural Parasite lasts about 12-ish in-game seconds.
I.. don't mind the 12 seconds duration because my infestors die anyway b4 that, but at least make it 75 energy or something, because now it just tells me that fungal growth >>> NP instead of FG > NP Roaches can no longer move under Force Fields while burrowed!!!!
Hum.. interesting, no more retreating for zerg, and no more sneaking through a FF... I think that'll mean more Ultra play IMO. And with the always frenzied ultras now, it's really powerful
Infested Terrans lasts 30 seconds (up from 20). Infested Terran spell can now be cast while Infestor is Burrowed.
ohhh finally, this change is really something for small drops! without raven or scan, you can sneak into a tank line and spew infested terran all over.. wait have to check woot!
Overall good patch for zerg
lol what? good patch for vs zerg you mean... NP nerf was unfounded, roach nerf was ridiculous, rally change screws nydus over... What was good for z? a t3 unit was slightly buffed and thats it. Infested Terran is pointless, fungal is way better, ITs will never be used competitively. Buffing ultras doesn't help out if all of the midgame stuff is bad. Oh yea, and creep tumor nerf? wtf is that...
Well, calling a patch a nerf or buff is subjective sometimes Rally point change is good because you don't want to accidently attack your enemy. If you wanted to attack, then people have to micro better just like in scbw.
I have to disagree with your infested terran. Now since ITs can be shot from the underground, it makes a perfect zerg version of "zealot bomb". Good terran will scan it, and good zerg will try to abuse it.
On July 09 2010 03:16 MorroW wrote: hellions no longer freeze when in range of ling when hunting on attack move, quite major
scvs no longer get "i cant build there" when going to build a building somewhere but gets intercoupted by a land or a tech lab reactor going down to make them move. this makes macro easier cause u wont have to reassign scvs what to build after being issues move by a structure going down
Holy cow, really? No more annoying targeting pause for Hellions? Is it finally going to be possible to get some true Vulture-style micro going with them?
I don't quite understand what's being said. now you can A-move and still get off fast shots on lings making hellion micro possible for us gold league guys?
I believe he's referring to the bug where if you amoved hellions vs lings they'd move into range then bug out and not fire, and then they'd do that over and over while chasing the lings. I think it locks targeting better now. Whether this affects microability remains to be seen from what I'm reading.
On July 09 2010 03:16 MorroW wrote: hellions no longer freeze when in range of ling when hunting on attack move, quite major
scvs no longer get "i cant build there" when going to build a building somewhere but gets intercoupted by a land or a tech lab reactor going down to make them move. this makes macro easier cause u wont have to reassign scvs what to build after being issues move by a structure going down
Holy cow, really? No more annoying targeting pause for Hellions? Is it finally going to be possible to get some true Vulture-style micro going with them?
they still got cast time, just now if they are hunting a target and gets inrange to do the attack and the enemy move away longer and cooldown is not active, it actually attacks instead of hunting for ever and stopping but never attacking i dont believe even 1% of the players knew about this bug but its gone now anyways and it makes things easier
so you mean the chasing thing?
when chasing nonspeed lings they actually shoot isntead of just stoping without doing anything aight?
not sure if its new but i noticed that if you have dark templars in a group they now have diffrent icons showing if its a scyth dt or a psiblade wielding dt
On July 09 2010 03:16 MorroW wrote: hellions no longer freeze when in range of ling when hunting on attack move, quite major
scvs no longer get "i cant build there" when going to build a building somewhere but gets intercoupted by a land or a tech lab reactor going down to make them move. this makes macro easier cause u wont have to reassign scvs what to build after being issues move by a structure going down
Holy cow, really? No more annoying targeting pause for Hellions? Is it finally going to be possible to get some true Vulture-style micro going with them?
they still got cast time, just now if they are hunting a target and gets inrange to do the attack and the enemy move away longer and cooldown is not active, it actually attacks instead of hunting for ever and stopping but never attacking i dont believe even 1% of the players knew about this bug but its gone now anyways and it makes things easier
so you mean the chasing thing?
chasing hunting w/e, same expression. if u click a on a ling and the ling runs away the hellion will attack once its inrange and no cooldown, in beta phase 2 it would just stop and not attack
also found that units have drop animations rather than just appearing on the ground (they appear in the middle of the ground and the medivac/overlord then it falls the rest)
On July 09 2010 03:16 MorroW wrote: hellions no longer freeze when in range of ling when hunting on attack move, quite major
scvs no longer get "i cant build there" when going to build a building somewhere but gets intercoupted by a land or a tech lab reactor going down to make them move. this makes macro easier cause u wont have to reassign scvs what to build after being issues move by a structure going down
Holy cow, really? No more annoying targeting pause for Hellions? Is it finally going to be possible to get some true Vulture-style micro going with them?
they still got cast time, just now if they are hunting a target and gets inrange to do the attack and the enemy move away longer and cooldown is not active, it actually attacks instead of hunting for ever and stopping but never attacking i dont believe even 1% of the players knew about this bug but its gone now anyways and it makes things easier
Now you have me confused. I get that they can't actually attack while moving like the Vulture, which puts it closer to the Dragoon/Stalker/Marauder level of micro, but you also say that they have a "cast time" which I'm guessing means they still have a short delay (about a tenth of a second or so) where they stop, target, then fire? If so, then the only change is to a very specific situation (which would match up with your 1% of players guess). I really want Hellions to attack their selected target more quickly... that acquisition time is so long =(
I hope some of these changes are bugs. Seriously sounds like Blizzard severely nerfed both Protoss and Zerg, the two weakest races when compared to Terran. Honestly, I would have been expecting either buffs to these races, or nerfs to Terran. And lol at nerfing the Ultralisk when it was already not even as strong enough as it should be pre-patch.
In regards to the seemingly new Pool / 100 gas timing, has anyone briefly checked to see if gas harvest rate is changed? This could explain the issue as well as be a subtle yet significant change to the game, not to mention easy to check using the income tab.
It could obviously also be an extractor build time change as suggested before, though I feel like the timing to know to put drones in gas is pretty clear cut, players with any significant number of games should be able to say it feels longer, or even just look at the tool tip and report the change. If it is a build time change is it just for zerg, or all gas harvesting buildings?
I also have a bit of concern over the increased zealot build time, not just because of 6 pools but because each additional zealot after that is also increasingly delayed, it seems to drastically affect most protoss openings regardless of type. Whether it was 2 gate pressure on zerg to get up an expansion, having adequate number of zealots to deal with an early marauder push, or a 3/4 warpgate push early/mid game. I'm likely overreacting but I'd sure feel more comfortable with 3 cycles of zealots instead of 2.42. Interestingly its a flat increase in build time across gateway/warpgate, so over the long run its less harmful to gateways than warpgates, but there is still no reason to choose gateway over warpgate if you're concerned about unit production.
On July 09 2010 03:16 MorroW wrote: hellions no longer freeze when in range of ling when hunting on attack move, quite major
scvs no longer get "i cant build there" when going to build a building somewhere but gets intercoupted by a land or a tech lab reactor going down to make them move. this makes macro easier cause u wont have to reassign scvs what to build after being issues move by a structure going down
Holy cow, really? No more annoying targeting pause for Hellions? Is it finally going to be possible to get some true Vulture-style micro going with them?
they still got cast time, just now if they are hunting a target and gets inrange to do the attack and the enemy move away longer and cooldown is not active, it actually attacks instead of hunting for ever and stopping but never attacking i dont believe even 1% of the players knew about this bug but its gone now anyways and it makes things easier
Now you have me confused. I get that they can't actually attack while moving like the Vulture, which puts it closer to the Dragoon/Stalker/Marauder level of micro, but you also say that they have a "cast time" which I'm guessing means they still have a short delay (about a tenth of a second or so) where they stop, target, then fire? If so, then the only change is to a very specific situation (which would match up with your 1% of players guess). I really want Hellions to attack their selected target more quickly... that acquisition time is so long =(
i dont think hellions amoving zerglings/scv/probe/stalker, hell anything is a special situation. take 10 hellion vs 10 ling hunting/chasing with a move and nobody attack but now they attack, its quite a big deal. of course higher level play ull simply not just amove and go sleep anyway but its a good change, really makes hellion vs ling abit easier to pull off
On July 09 2010 03:16 MorroW wrote: hellions no longer freeze when in range of ling when hunting on attack move, quite major
scvs no longer get "i cant build there" when going to build a building somewhere but gets intercoupted by a land or a tech lab reactor going down to make them move. this makes macro easier cause u wont have to reassign scvs what to build after being issues move by a structure going down
Holy cow, really? No more annoying targeting pause for Hellions? Is it finally going to be possible to get some true Vulture-style micro going with them?
they still got cast time, just now if they are hunting a target and gets inrange to do the attack and the enemy move away longer and cooldown is not active, it actually attacks instead of hunting for ever and stopping but never attacking i dont believe even 1% of the players knew about this bug but its gone now anyways and it makes things easier
Now you have me confused. I get that they can't actually attack while moving like the Vulture, which puts it closer to the Dragoon/Stalker/Marauder level of micro, but you also say that they have a "cast time" which I'm guessing means they still have a short delay (about a tenth of a second or so) where they stop, target, then fire? If so, then the only change is to a very specific situation (which would match up with your 1% of players guess). I really want Hellions to attack their selected target more quickly... that acquisition time is so long =(
I think he means that Hellions still do damage over time
@BUG 250mm cannon bug with Ultra: oh gosh, if a thor 250mm a ultra, you can still load the ultra in the overlord, but the 250mm will continue firing and kill the ultra if able to! no damage is done to the overlord holding the ultra (even though the animation clearly shows it lol)
On July 09 2010 03:16 MorroW wrote: hellions no longer freeze when in range of ling when hunting on attack move, quite major
scvs no longer get "i cant build there" when going to build a building somewhere but gets intercoupted by a land or a tech lab reactor going down to make them move. this makes macro easier cause u wont have to reassign scvs what to build after being issues move by a structure going down
Holy cow, really? No more annoying targeting pause for Hellions? Is it finally going to be possible to get some true Vulture-style micro going with them?
they still got cast time, just now if they are hunting a target and gets inrange to do the attack and the enemy move away longer and cooldown is not active, it actually attacks instead of hunting for ever and stopping but never attacking i dont believe even 1% of the players knew about this bug but its gone now anyways and it makes things easier
Now you have me confused. I get that they can't actually attack while moving like the Vulture, which puts it closer to the Dragoon/Stalker/Marauder level of micro, but you also say that they have a "cast time" which I'm guessing means they still have a short delay (about a tenth of a second or so) where they stop, target, then fire? If so, then the only change is to a very specific situation (which would match up with your 1% of players guess). I really want Hellions to attack their selected target more quickly... that acquisition time is so long =(
i dont think hellions amoving zerglings is a special situation. take 10 hellion vs 10 ling hunting with a move and nobody attack but now they attack, its quite a big deal. of course higher level play ull simply not just amove and go sleep anyway but its a good change, really makes hellion vs ling abit easier to pull off
interesting, even though i must say i didn't really mind the old hellions because you had to babysit them which i think is better than A-move, but i guess it's not a big deal. also is the dropping animation annoying or is it alright?
@BUG 250mm cannon bug with Ultra: oh gosh, if a thor 250mm a ultra, you can still load the ultra in the overlord, but the 250mm will continue firing and kill the ultra if able to! no damage is done to the overlord holding the ultra (even though the animation clearly shows it lol)
lol what about loading them before Thor starts to shoot?
On July 09 2010 03:16 MorroW wrote: hellions no longer freeze when in range of ling when hunting on attack move, quite major
scvs no longer get "i cant build there" when going to build a building somewhere but gets intercoupted by a land or a tech lab reactor going down to make them move. this makes macro easier cause u wont have to reassign scvs what to build after being issues move by a structure going down
Holy cow, really? No more annoying targeting pause for Hellions? Is it finally going to be possible to get some true Vulture-style micro going with them?
they still got cast time, just now if they are hunting a target and gets inrange to do the attack and the enemy move away longer and cooldown is not active, it actually attacks instead of hunting for ever and stopping but never attacking i dont believe even 1% of the players knew about this bug but its gone now anyways and it makes things easier
Now you have me confused. I get that they can't actually attack while moving like the Vulture, which puts it closer to the Dragoon/Stalker/Marauder level of micro, but you also say that they have a "cast time" which I'm guessing means they still have a short delay (about a tenth of a second or so) where they stop, target, then fire? If so, then the only change is to a very specific situation (which would match up with your 1% of players guess). I really want Hellions to attack their selected target more quickly... that acquisition time is so long =(
i dont think hellions amoving zerglings is a special situation. take 10 hellion vs 10 ling hunting with a move and nobody attack but now they attack, its quite a big deal. of course higher level play ull simply not just amove and go sleep anyway but its a good change, really makes hellion vs ling abit easier to pull off
interesting, even though i must say i didn't really mind the old hellions because you had to babysit them which i think is better than A-move, but i guess it's not a big deal. also is the dropping animation annoying or is it alright?
the drop animation is almost instant since it starts halfway in the air. i bet it delays ur units from moving away from the transport maybe by 0.1 second or so but i think it was a good change overall the hellion change well ye, it was fair that it was changed cause u dont want retard units since other races dont have it but at the same time we do encourage babysitting cause its good for esport ^^ u can look at it 2 ways and since im terran user im just gonna say good, now its easier for me xd
tested marauder micro. they didnt change the glitch that caused marauder to slide upon perfect timing
@BUG 250mm cannon bug with Ultra: oh gosh, if a thor 250mm a ultra, you can still load the ultra in the overlord, but the 250mm will continue firing and kill the ultra if able to! no damage is done to the overlord holding the ultra (even though the animation clearly shows it lol)
lol what about loading them before Thor starts to shoot?
It doesnt shoot then
@change: the transport drop -Now terran and zerg units dropping out of transport will have a small animation where it looks like they're falling.
On July 09 2010 03:42 LuMpY wrote: Dunno if this is mentioned yet, but looks like the high-temps learned how to dance ^^
when sending transports to unload it only gives the command to transports with cargo in it. aka if u got units in half ur medivacs and click drop on an island only the ones with stuff in them will fly to the island while in first beta phase all of them went there and looked like morons
this is an awesome change :p
edit: the drop animation only makes it look like u have to need feet on the ground to walk. but u can actually walk with ur units while ur in the air on the way down :D this drop time is so short that its like impossible to select it anyway, makes no difference tbh xd
On July 09 2010 01:57 MorroW wrote: is it just me but hunter seeker missiles feel alot faster. man maybe im just forgetting the game on 1 month T.T raven cant outrun a missle lol
I tested it, it does feel faster, but I'm also not sure. Can anyone find a way to know for sure? (like they're sure X used to be able to outrun)
So can anyone explain how the new Terran macro works now?, because some people said that they have now kind of an smart build. But do you have to have Factorys and barracks in different controlgroups now?
On July 09 2010 04:07 Clamev wrote: So can anyone explain how the new Terran macro works now?, because some people said that they have now kind of an smart build. But do you have to have Factorys and barracks in different controlgroups now?
it works like this
if u select a reactor rax + tech lab rax it gives 1 tab when in beta phase it gave 2 tabs. then if u wanted to build from reactor rax u had to tab and from tech lab tab back etc.
now if u select both u get both in same and if u click marauder, tech lab builds it, and if u click marine, reactor builds it. if u click 3 marines, it makes 2 in reactor and 1 in tech lab, if u click rine, marauder, rine it makes 2 in reactor and 1 in tech. basically they have what tl talked about in the early beta that they should have, and now they do :D
On July 09 2010 04:12 Xerlane wrote: "Zealot buildtime increased from 33 to 38 and attack cooldown increased from 23 to 28."
Wait, so not only do they nerf the training time for zealots but they reduce their damage as well? Damn I hate that :S
they mean cooldown on the warpgate if it was weapon cooldown then it would attack 5 seconds slower^^ cooldown of weapons are usually with decimals and so
On July 09 2010 04:16 ibgeekn4me wrote: yes, that is an effective 21.7% dps loss for zealot in addition to the build time increase apparently they were SUPER op to warrant that....
Woah, woah, woah, let's not blow it out of proportion. Units don't have attack cooldowns in the 10s. Its just a typo in the OP. Its meant to say the Warp-Gate cooldown.
they mean cooldown on the warpgate if it was weapon cooldown then it would attack 5 seconds slower^^ cooldown of weapons are usually with decimals and so
the new terran macro is very annoying. 3 rax, 2 with techlabs 1 reactor - if i press AA for marines, my reactor takes up 1, and my techlab also 1... If it worked properly sure - but it's annoying right now, bring back tabs.
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: There is now a 1 second cooldown for Transfusion from the Queen. With the Creep Tumor cooldown=doubled change, I'm starting to think I shouldn't have sent Day9 those reps lolol
I was thinking the exact same thing The reaction reminds me a bit of the canon rush reaction. I'll leave in the middle if it is overreacting or not, but boy does Blizzard react fast when they some 'unwanted' early game plays.
Good thing they changed the overlord creep-drop sound, because with this creep tumor nerf we'll be hearing it a lot more. With my mechanics, I'll probably end up using creep tumor every 40 seconds when I inject now...
Slight ultra nerf because they are now un-stunnable by default. In retrospect I guess we could have see that one comming
On July 09 2010 04:25 DeMusliM wrote: the new terran macro is very annoying. 3 rax, 2 with techlabs 1 reactor - if i press AA for marines, my reactor takes up 1, and my techlab also 1... If it worked properly sure - but it's annoying right now, bring back tabs.
What you'll have to do now is put Reactor structures and Tech Lab structures on different hotkeys. I guess it's not terribly bad, a relatively minor inconvenience though.
Why are there more unlisted patch notes than actual patch notes...It's not like these are insignificant changes and yet they don't tell anyone about them.
On July 09 2010 04:25 DeMusliM wrote: the new terran macro is very annoying. 3 rax, 2 with techlabs 1 reactor - if i press AA for marines, my reactor takes up 1, and my techlab also 1... If it worked properly sure - but it's annoying right now, bring back tabs.
Just queue tech lab units first, until they fix it.
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: There is now a 1 second cooldown for Transfusion from the Queen. With the Creep Tumor cooldown=doubled change, I'm starting to think I shouldn't have sent Day9 those reps lolol
Slight ultra nerf because they are now un-stunnable by default. In retrospect I guess we could have see that one comming
On July 09 2010 04:25 DeMusliM wrote: the new terran macro is very annoying. 3 rax, 2 with techlabs 1 reactor - if i press AA for marines, my reactor takes up 1, and my techlab also 1... If it worked properly sure - but it's annoying right now, bring back tabs.
This seems to be a clear bug and will get patched [I hope]. It doesn't make sense to not queue 2 marines in a reactor rax before a tech rax.
Hallucinated Colossi no longer break force fields.
....... Why would you possibly want to make force fields stronger?
whatever that means
I think what MorroW means is that when a hellion gets in range of a zergling, they will stop for a second before firing... at which point the zergling will run away and out of range.
well, i don't like the idea of further dumbing down macro for terran, just seems silly to me personally where before tabbing through 3 kinds of structures (normal/labbed/reactor'd) seemed very simple and accurate - maybe a little hard to grasp at the start for some but overall you built what you wanted to build and where. Now if i have 5 rax selected 2 reactor'd, 1 labbed and 2 normal - i pressed d AAAA and XX - next thing i notice is no tech labs, my reactors shared the marines with the Normal barracks' so they all had 1/1/1/1 marine building - god, so annoyed by this atm ^^.
Hallucinated Colossi no longer break force fields.
....... Why would you possibly want to make force fields stronger?
Well I'm nowhere near your level of play, but once massive units gained the ability to break forcefields, four gate pushes in PvP with hallucination became extremely powerful. The primary way to deal with these pushes: forcefield, was nullified by the attacking player's ability to hallucinate colossus and easily break the ramp.
Edit: Although it does appear force field has also been buffed by more easily trapping units. I agree with the colossus not breaking forcefield change, but this is really unneeeded..
Hallucinated Colossi no longer break force fields.
....... Why would you possibly want to make force fields stronger?
Yeah, together with the Roach change it really seems like Blizzard wanted to buff the FF. Strange.
Yeah, I agree why buff the force field? And on the whole force trapping units thing, it has gotten easier to trap units with force field. I occasionally play protoss, and in a 1v1 match I held off 20 zerglings with 2 stalkers and 2 sentries by trapping my units literally INSIDE a forcefield. It didn't do that in beta phase 1.
On July 08 2010 20:49 Numy wrote: I seriously hope creep tumor thing is a bug. I just can't picture trying to use hydra offensively when it takes double the time to get a creep highway
Use overlords - IdrA style.
On July 08 2010 22:56 Illva wrote: The change might have been needed for other reason but why does it feel like terran gets the creative buffs/nerf where the other races just gets the nurfbat which will create imbalanced in other places not intended?.
WoL is Terran-based game, so more Terran players - more sales.
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: The 2 Roach Warren upgrades, Glial Reconstitution and Tunneling Claws have had their hotkeysICONS swapped.
Clearly a bug - the bulky heavy claws get you speed; the lighter looking sped up claws get you digging power? - makes no sense. They should just switch it back asap, something prolly went wrong.
On July 09 2010 04:26 NeoLearner wrote: Slight ultra nerf because they are now un-stunnable by default. In retrospect I guess we could have see that one comming
How is that a nerf?
I was talking referring to the weapon upgrade nerf on the ultras, sorry if it was a bit unclear.
Holy crap, that's seems like quite a big FF change. They seem to have gotten like a full hex extra blocking range. My first reaction was: "Yeah, they probably want to get people to use ultras to destroy them. But sentries are tier 1.5, ultras 3. That's a long time... I mean, the (4/5?) warpgate push, it hits way before you can (comfortably) get ultras, right?
On July 09 2010 04:40 DCV_Whiplash wrote: Strange indeed. Maybe we'll se more Ultralisks... and maybe that's exactly what they want.
This. Yet another under-handed stealth nerf by blizzard to encourage zerg players to use ultras (which they should, admittedly).
Well I have a crazy idea about that. Instead of buffing all sorts of other units (infestors with frenzy, sentries with big FF's) buf the actual ultra itself! That's just so crazy it might work!
-.- Why did they nerf the zealot? 33-38 means production time now is 115% and attack cooldown 120%. Wth... ? Did they ever need to be nerfed in the first place? And if so, by so much? This is a great drawback for them if it's true.
On July 09 2010 04:31 DeMusliM wrote: well, i don't like the idea of further dumbing down macro for terran, just seems silly to me personally where before tabbing through 3 kinds of structures (normal/labbed/reactor'd) seemed very simple and accurate - maybe a little hard to grasp at the start for some but overall you built what you wanted to build and where. Now if i have 5 rax selected 2 reactor'd, 1 labbed and 2 normal - i pressed d AAAA and XX - next thing i notice is no tech labs, my reactors shared the marines with the Normal barracks' so they all had 1/1/1/1 marine building - god, so annoyed by this atm ^^.
I agree it's really stupid. Especially when you have like 10 barracks, you can't keep track of how many times you are supposed to press D or A and you end up with marines coming out of tech labs slowing down your marauders etc. It's really bad, tab worked fine I'm not sure what the problem is
On July 09 2010 04:56 Duelist wrote: -.- Why did they nerf the zealot? 33-38 means production time now is 115% and attack cooldown 120%. Wth... ? Did they ever need to be nerfed in the first place? And if so, by so much? This is a great drawback for them if it's true.
It's warpgate cooldown, not attack cooldown. Read the rest of the thread. Zelniq made a mistake.
Wonder if they changed the Force Field area because there were a lot of cases of noobs placing Force Fields on their ramp, one hex to the side, and the enemy poured in anyway.
On July 09 2010 04:31 DeMusliM wrote: well, i don't like the idea of further dumbing down macro for terran, just seems silly to me personally where before tabbing through 3 kinds of structures (normal/labbed/reactor'd) seemed very simple and accurate - maybe a little hard to grasp at the start for some but overall you built what you wanted to build and where. Now if i have 5 rax selected 2 reactor'd, 1 labbed and 2 normal - i pressed d AAAA and XX - next thing i notice is no tech labs, my reactors shared the marines with the Normal barracks' so they all had 1/1/1/1 marine building - god, so annoyed by this atm ^^.
I agree it's really stupid. Especially when you have like 10 barracks, you can't keep track of how many times you are supposed to press D or A and you end up with marines coming out of tech labs slowing down your marauders etc. It's really bad, tab worked fine I'm not sure what the problem is
well u can see the differences on the icons on the bottom so if u select ur raxes u see 5 tech labs just click d 5 times then count the other raxes and click a. if u think this is so hard (its actually easier than before) then just use 2 hotkeys and problem solved
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: There is now a 1 second cooldown for Transfusion from the Queen. With the Creep Tumor cooldown=doubled change, I'm starting to think I shouldn't have sent Day9 those reps lolol
Slight ultra nerf because they are now un-stunnable by default. In retrospect I guess we could have see that one comming
How is that a nerf?
Idk maybe he thinks its a nerf because they dont receive the bonus damage from Frenzy?
(which was mostly just for the ultralisk but it also gave bonus damage to other units also)
The change might have been needed for other reason but why does it feel like terran gets the creative buffs/nerf where the other races just gets the nurfbat which will create imbalanced in other places not intended?.
As a Terran player, it seems to me most of the changes have been pretty simple, not creative. Tank damage, stim and shield cost, ghost cost, building timing (barraks, factory, reactor).
The MBS change (once it's fixed to actually do what we'd want it to do) is welcome to me, because macro is by far more time consuming as a Terran due to the number of unique production buildings. So you could say that's creative, but I think it should have been there in the first place.
Zerg is having its spells swapped around, taken away, added. Ultras unable to be stunned. Those seem like more creative changes than simply adjusting the numbers.
On July 09 2010 05:12 ZeroCartin wrote: Someone played me and tried to EMP an obs. Apparentyl he says, the obs didnt uncloak. Is this true?
Watch the replay. Did he shoot directly at the shimmer, or just beneath it?
Any time someone says they couldn't hit an air unit with a spell, I immediately assume they don't realize that SC2 now has a 3D world, with an isometric viewpoint, and you need to aim where the orange lines (that appear beneath air units when you have an AOE spell selected) intersect with the ground.
Could some American be kind and list whatever graphical upgrades/changes they come across? Just so us Europeans get in on the action Us graphics whores are interested!
On July 09 2010 05:32 StoLiVe wrote: I just don't understand the nerf on zealot. Even if i'm not a toss player i'm can't understand that. Do they was that strong ?
Im thinking it was because of the 5sec on reaper/rax nerf
they didnt want zealots there super super early so they give them a 5sec nerf to balance the rax nerf and keep timings for that semi in tune
On July 09 2010 05:32 StoLiVe wrote: I just don't understand the nerf on zealot. Even if i'm not a toss player i'm can't understand that. Do they was that strong ?
Im thinking it was because of the 5sec on reaper/rax nerf
they didnt want zealots there super super early so they give them a 5sec nerf to balance the rax nerf and keep timings for that semi in tune
I think it was the other way around.
Nerfed Zealots to stop Zealots being too strong for too long in PvP, and nerfed Reapers/Barracks to compensate.
Why the Spawning Pool didn't have 5 seconds added on or something is mind boggling.
20ish% increase on zealot build time? That's pretty significant. I could almost fast expand and defend with zerglings and be pretty much assured of succeeding on most maps. I'll try that after my placement matches.
Not sure if someone said this but you can spam click a critter to blow it up! Fun...like the old days. You can do it for SURE in a match vs computer...haven't tried in actual ladder.
This is ALL unlisted? Holy shit... a ton of these are VERY Significant. Rax build time, no burrow under FF, Warp Gate time, seriously... the don't list this?!?!?!?
On July 08 2010 22:56 Illva wrote: The change might have been needed for other reason but why does it feel like terran gets the creative buffs/nerf where the other races just gets the nurfbat which will create imbalanced in other places not intended?.
WoL is Terran-based game, so more Terran players - more sales.
this
When you see where Blizzard is going (achievements, facebook...) that's pretty obvious what they're trying to do with wings of liberty... happy kids are gonna buy a lot of stuff on bnet 2.0.
Just a question on #19 ( changelings ) I used one and saw this - if it only displays for the user and not the opponent surely it's a feature to let you pickout the changeling? ( I dont think I saw the time bar on the changeling either could be wrong though ).
On July 09 2010 05:59 StoLiVe wrote: what is the change about the medivac ? ?
They stop and face any bio units in range if those units are firing a weapon, whether they are healing or not. They'll also ignore any scan-move commands when they're in this state.
On July 09 2010 05:59 StoLiVe wrote: what is the change about the medivac ? ?
They stop and face any bio units in range if those units are firing a weapon, whether they are healing or not. They'll also ignore any scan-move commands when they're in this state.
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but you can see the speed of a unit by hovering over their armor icon on the bottom of the screen (where it displays 0, 1, 2, or 3 for armor upgrade).
On July 09 2010 06:29 Darkness12 wrote: Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but you can see the speed of a unit by hovering over their armor icon on the bottom of the screen (where it displays 0, 1, 2, or 3 for armor upgrade).
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but Hellions now have a range of 5 - instead of a range of 6 that they were given earlier.
This was the reason for the buff:
Netahera: The range has been increased from 5 to 6.
This is not an actual change to the area effect of the weapon. The weapon was always range 6, but it would only acquire targets at range 5 so it would get a little bit of splash that would hit enemies behind its initial target. By making the weapon range 6 it is easier to shoot and run from enemy units. It does make the splash a little less useful if you are just using the “attack move” command.
I wonder what the reason for the range decrease is.
roach 75/25 1 suply tank 50 - >60dmg ultralisk 450 -> 600hp and bigger size now colos 15 -> 20dmg ? thor - newa damage ? voidray 200/150 ->250/150 forge hp 400/400 ->550/550 ghost price 100/200 -> 150/150 TRUE viking price125/100- 150/75 and u can pick up viking on medivac now
Looks like totally stupid patch. As far as I see the game was really well balanced already, these changes aren't making the balance better at all. I like the early reaper nerf since it really makes team games more sensible and getting advantage with proxy reapers wasn't respectable anyway. But some other changes are plain stupid. The roach burrow nerf must be the dumbest thing, I can translate this only as if their goal is to see zergs rush to ultras? That's such a huge nerf to zerg in that matchup, imo way bigger than tosses are trying to make out of zealot buildtime nerf. Well, we're all biased of course, but you shouldn't act as if opposing race wasn't hurt aswell, big time. It's not like 2gate was the only way to play - any other bo ends up gaining slight advantage from the changes.
On July 09 2010 06:46 Crisium wrote: Anyone else thinking to never produce Reapers ever again thanks to the Rax + Reaper nerfs?
Well Day9 has been talking about a "delayed reaper" that isnt for rushing, but actually used later as a way to get some scouting done... it would still be viable.
On July 09 2010 06:43 Ouga wrote: Looks like totally stupid patch. As far as I see the game was really well balanced already, these changes aren't making the balance better at all. I like the early reaper nerf since it really makes team games more sensible and getting advantage with proxy reapers wasn't respectable anyway. But some other changes are plain stupid. The roach burrow nerf must be the dumbest thing, I can translate this only as if their goal is to see zergs rush to ultras? That's such a huge nerf to zerg in that matchup, imo way bigger than tosses are trying to make out of zealot buildtime nerf. Well, we're all biased of course, but you shouldn't act as if opposing race wasn't hurt aswell, big time. It's not like 2gate was the only way to play - any other bo ends up gaining slight advantage from the changes.
Zealots are a main part of almost very protoss army, and now they take 20% more time to build. Isn't that big?... lol The forcefield change better be true, otherwise protoss are once again going to be the underdog race.
On July 09 2010 06:33 k!llua wrote: I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but Hellions now have a range of 5 - instead of a range of 6 that they were given earlier.
Netahera: The range has been increased from 5 to 6.
This is not an actual change to the area effect of the weapon. The weapon was always range 6, but it would only acquire targets at range 5 so it would get a little bit of splash that would hit enemies behind its initial target. By making the weapon range 6 it is easier to shoot and run from enemy units. It does make the splash a little less useful if you are just using the “attack move” command.
I wonder what the reason for the range decrease is.
Also, the UDP Blocker that R1CH made works again.
Maybe they reverted it, and that's what fixed the Hellion/Zergling chase thing Morrow mentioned.
The change made it easier to attack and run, but more difficult to attack and chase
Has any other protoss noticed that their nexus seems to accumulate energy more quickly? Am I just imagining things? If I'm not, has the global energy regen rate been increased or is this unique to nexii?
On July 09 2010 06:43 Ouga wrote: Looks like totally stupid patch. As far as I see the game was really well balanced already, these changes aren't making the balance better at all. I like the early reaper nerf since it really makes team games more sensible and getting advantage with proxy reapers wasn't respectable anyway. But some other changes are plain stupid. The roach burrow nerf must be the dumbest thing, I can translate this only as if their goal is to see zergs rush to ultras? That's such a huge nerf to zerg in that matchup, imo way bigger than tosses are trying to make out of zealot buildtime nerf. Well, we're all biased of course, but you shouldn't act as if opposing race wasn't hurt aswell, big time. It's not like 2gate was the only way to play - any other bo ends up gaining slight advantage from the changes.
Zealots are a main part of almost very protoss army, and now they take 20% more to build. Isn't that big?... lol The forcefield change better be true, otherwise protoss are going to be the underdog race once again.
I think people are overreacting to this a bit. Coming out 20% later isn't the same thing as being able to build 20% less of the things. You can still only build as many Zealots as you have minerals to spend on them, and only build as many simultaneously as you have Gateways or Warp Gates.
What remains to be seen is whether or not you can safely protect yourself from a 6-Pool rush after the change. If its not possible, then something absolutely has to be done about it. Beyond that I'm not particularly concerned. I'm more excited for PvP. It means 2-Gate pushes aren't going to fuck me over as badly.
Hum... am i misunderstanding? I thought the cooldown means it takes more time to create a zealot (at warpgates) after another one. That's production time no? That probably means folks now have to build another warpgate more than normal.
This is what's wrong with constantly balancing unit(micromanaging balance) instead of using the map to balance. Blizzard doesn't get that people don't like their units to change so suddenly. This isn't World of Warcraft. There doesn't need to be nerfs every patch. There doesn't need to be a nerf to every strange strategy(queen rush nerf for example) just because.
On July 09 2010 06:41 Zelniq wrote: why are the last 2 posters, posting changes that are not only not true for the current patch, but existed in some earlier version of the beta?
If they nerfed the Hellion's range before, they definitely didn't advertise it. I don't remember it being in the last few patches of Phase One, so it belongs in this thread right?
The icon seems new indeed. Btw, does anyone have any idea why would blizzard not announce some of these changes, specially the balancing ones, as they should belong to the balancing changes thread of each patch...
On July 09 2010 07:00 Duelist wrote: Hum... am i misunderstanding? I thought the cooldown means it takes more time to create a zealot (at warpgates) after another one. That's production time no? That probably means folks now have to build another warpgate more than normal. So 150m to waste, zealot wise. For the other units, having more warpagets probably won't make much difference because of the limitation of gas.
Yeah, but that's only true in the case of your buildings ALWAYS pumping out units and those units ONLY being Zealots. There's always going to be some period where your buildings are sitting around doing nothing for at least a little while, while you wait for some tech structure to finish, you're expanding, or waiting for resources to accumulate. I think only in clutch situations where you spawn a wave of Zealots from Warp Gates, and you're now forced to wait an additional 5 seconds before the second wave of whatever (Sentries, Stalker, Templar) come out is it going to make a significant difference (and in most of those situations, you're screwed anyway). I don't think anyone plays at the level where their buildings are producing something 100% of the time AND they're not accumulating some kind of wealth where this change is going to completely ruin their day.
Its a much bigger deal at the start of the game, when a 6Pool might show up. 5 (10, for when the second Zealot comes out) seconds could mean the difference between getting the Zealot to block the choke in time vs Zerglings pouring in and crippling your economy.
On July 09 2010 07:09 TheKing. wrote: Man protoss players are like the new zerg players. They are complainging more about the zlot nerf than the roach being 2 food
Is shit like this really necessary? Do you feel better now?
There seems to be a bug in watching replays. The first person view doesn't work very well. e.g. the camera doesn't actually show a switch to a different location on the map like when microing a scouting worker, only that the unit has been selected.
However, all of the replay hotkeys seem to be working properly as I had problems with these before.
On July 09 2010 07:00 Duelist wrote: Hum... am i misunderstanding? I thought the cooldown means it takes more time to create a zealot (at warpgates) after another one. That's production time no? That probably means folks now have to build another warpgate more than normal. So 150m to waste, zealot wise. For the other units, having more warpagets probably won't make much difference because of the limitation of gas.
Yeah, but that's only true in the case of your buildings ALWAYS pumping out units and those units ONLY being Zealots. There's always going to be some period where your buildings are sitting around doing nothing for at least a little while, while you wait for some tech structure to finish, you're expanding, or waiting for resources to accumulate. I think only in clutch situations where you spawn a wave of Zealots from Warp Gates, and you're now forced to wait an additional 5 seconds before the second wave of whatever (Sentries, Stalker, Templar) come out is it going to make a significant difference (and in most of those situations, you're screwed anyway). I don't think anyone plays at the level where their buildings are producing something 100% of the time AND they're not accumulating some kind of wealth where this change is going to completely ruin their day.
Its a much bigger deal at the start of the game, when a 6Pool might show up. 5 (10, for when the second Zealot comes out) seconds could mean the difference between getting the Zealot to block the choke in time vs Zerglings pouring in and crippling your economy.
Well yes for sure me as an average player i don't have them 100% of the time always producing, but for pro players, that's not the case... And what you said is true. Late game, someone that makes 7 zealots out of 7 WG, now has to w8 5s more, which is actualy 5s for each warpgate, making it 35s of production gone to waste basically...
On July 09 2010 07:19 Duelist wrote: Well yes for sure me as an average player i don't have them 100% of the time always producing, but for pro players, that's not the case... And what you said is true. Late game, someone that makes 7 zealots out of 7 WG, now has to w8 5s more, which is actualy 5s for each warpgate, 35s gone to waste basically. I don't know how it's not big.
Its a change. You can't prove that its going to be the end of the world. It doesn't look significant enough to me to be worried about. T and Z players often express how difficult it is to pressure Protoss who use mass Warp Gates because they can instantly plant units anywhere they need to stop the harassment without having to march their entire army over. This just makes it a little harder to do that...only if you're using Zealots...which aren't usually what you make to stop that kind of harassment. Clutch warping of the other 4 Gateway units to prevent harassment is much more common.
On July 09 2010 07:00 Duelist wrote: Hum... am i misunderstanding? I thought the cooldown means it takes more time to create a zealot (at warpgates) after another one. That's production time no? That probably means folks now have to build another warpgate more than normal. So 150m to waste, zealot wise. For the other units, having more warpagets probably won't make much difference because of the limitation of gas.
Yeah, but that's only true in the case of your buildings ALWAYS pumping out units and those units ONLY being Zealots. There's always going to be some period where your buildings are sitting around doing nothing for at least a little while, while you wait for some tech structure to finish, you're expanding, or waiting for resources to accumulate. I think only in clutch situations where you spawn a wave of Zealots from Warp Gates, and you're now forced to wait an additional 5 seconds before the second wave of whatever (Sentries, Stalker, Templar) come out is it going to make a significant difference (and in most of those situations, you're screwed anyway). I don't think anyone plays at the level where their buildings are producing something 100% of the time AND they're not accumulating some kind of wealth where this change is going to completely ruin their day.
Its a much bigger deal at the start of the game, when a 6Pool might show up. 5 (10, for when the second Zealot comes out) seconds could mean the difference between getting the Zealot to block the choke in time vs Zerglings pouring in and crippling your economy.
Well yes for sure me as an average player i don't have them 100% of the time always producing, but for pro players, that's not the case... And what you said is true. Late game, someone that makes 7 zealots out of 7 WG, now has to w8 5s more, which is actualy 5s for each warpgate, 35s of production gone to waste basically. I don't know how it's not big...
You make it sound like a 5 second change is unheard of. It isn't. People will learn to adapt.
On July 09 2010 07:19 Duelist wrote: Well yes for sure me as an average player i don't have them 100% of the time always producing, but for pro players, that's not the case... And what you said is true. Late game, someone that makes 7 zealots out of 7 WG, now has to w8 5s more, which is actualy 5s for each warpgate, 35s gone to waste basically. I don't know how it's not big.
Its a change. You can't prove that its going to be the end of the world. It doesn't look significant enough to me to be worried about. T and Z players often express how difficult it is to pressure Protoss who use mass Warp Gates because they can instantly plant units anywhere they need to stop the harassment without having to march their entire army over. This just makes it a little harder to do that...only if you're using Zealots...which aren't usually what you make to stop that kind of harassment. Clutch warping of the other 4 Gateway units to prevent harassment is much more common.
Y, i guess you're right. It's just kinda sad seeing protoss getting nerfed patch after patch, when it feels it has been nerfed more than enough.
did extractor buildtime get increased? Because early gas timings are about 5 seconds off. I thought it was a faster pool, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
I`m pretty pissed about the neural parasite nerf. I had 30+ infestors in a FFA game and lost to about 20 carriers. Before the change, this would have been an easy win. It was really fun before, and I hope they change it back.
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: If you select a reactor barracks + tech lab barracks, they fit in the same tab, but before it separated them into 2 tabs. Then if u wanted to build from reactor barracks you had to tab and from tech lab tab back etc. So now since it selects both in the same tab, if you build a marauder, the tech lab builds it; and if you build a marine, reactor builds it. If you build 3 marines, it makes 2 in reactor and 1 in tech lab, if you build marine, marauder, marine it makes 2 in reactor and 1 in tech.
I actually love this. I've always been annoyed at selecting multiple barracks with different addons and not having all of them build a marine if i mass hit the button evenh though they all could
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: 5. Roaches and infestors can no longer move under Force Fields while burrowed
This made my day but for this to be humanely possible, that means that force fields must extend underground. =0
edit: Why would they not mention these things in the patch notes? A lot of them seem pretty major. I'm guessing they may have been a little bit rushed to get the patch out w/ the beta?
On July 09 2010 06:43 Ouga wrote: Looks like totally stupid patch. As far as I see the game was really well balanced already, these changes aren't making the balance better at all. I like the early reaper nerf since it really makes team games more sensible and getting advantage with proxy reapers wasn't respectable anyway. But some other changes are plain stupid. The roach burrow nerf must be the dumbest thing, I can translate this only as if their goal is to see zergs rush to ultras? That's such a huge nerf to zerg in that matchup, imo way bigger than tosses are trying to make out of zealot buildtime nerf. Well, we're all biased of course, but you shouldn't act as if opposing race wasn't hurt aswell, big time. It's not like 2gate was the only way to play - any other bo ends up gaining slight advantage from the changes.
Zealots are a main part of almost very protoss army, and now they take 20% more time to build. Isn't that big?... lol The forcefield change better be true, otherwise protoss are once again going to be the underdog race.
I don't see zealot buildtime nerf acting any part in lategame. Basically you just have to make your extra gateways earlier to match up with later lost building time. I don't see why this would nerf other than early aggression. Without playing it's hard to say if nerf was overboard and reduced possible strategies too much. I'd personally suggest tosses to just look again for past favorite strats aka. 1base timed pushes or FE - none of that are affected AT ALL. If you think about it and play smart, 4gw push isn't affected by lot nerf at all. Gates sooner, make lots first and save stalkers for warped units and the change has already been neutralized.
From z pov the roach nerf will definately play big part in midlate. If toss loses early aggressiveness, zerg loses the only counter it had against big sentry chunk if toss gets to fight in decent spot and has good enough army to survive against half of zerg's army. Ok not only, there still are the ultras :-D
But without playing can't say who's more affected by these changes. Seriously, only biased people can tell for sure, so this isn't very "fruitful" conversation now
I have a suspicion that if you miss-click the mineral patch with your mule it will automatically find the closest patch and start mining. I'm at work at the moment and can't test this can some one do it for me. PS. If this is the case you could cast mules from the minimap.
Played placement games, got put in Division X, played 3-4 more games, and then i got swapped to division Y. Has this happened to anyone else? And did this happen in Phase 1?
I was originally in a division where the top player had 300 points (~40 games played), next division the top player had ~100 points (~20 games played). Not sure if that had anything to do with it.
-Large
Edit: I did not switch leagues, I switched to a different division in the same league, just being clear.
On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote: If you select a reactor barracks + tech lab barracks, they fit in the same tab, but before it separated them into 2 tabs. Then if u wanted to build from reactor barracks you had to tab and from tech lab tab back etc. So now since it selects both in the same tab, if you build a marauder, the tech lab builds it; and if you build a marine, reactor builds it. If you build 3 marines, it makes 2 in reactor and 1 in tech lab, if you build marine, marauder, marine it makes 2 in reactor and 1 in tech.
I actually love this. I've always been annoyed at selecting multiple barracks with different addons and not having all of them build a marine if i mass hit the button evenh though they all could
Yeah it's pretty great, however it's bugged (see op). Once it's fixed it'll be really nice.
Maybe it has been mentioned but a streamer noticed that the scv's glowed after retrieving gas (possible minerals as well). Only on higher graphics settings though.
while you check stats from a unit in game it said the speed of the attack by a number no longer fast/slow/etc and the bonus dmg isnt +something but say how mucht he unit do to a X unit ex: stalker don't do +14 but 14 to armored so there is no buff
Has Blizzard said anything about the Force field change? I can't help but wonder if it's a bug. Having the blockrange larger than the animation doesn't seem logical, you want to be able to know what you've blocked and where there are holes in the blockade. Im in EU and haven't tested it, but it does sound quite overpowered. Force field and sentrys in general was pretty damn good as it was. They are now especially stronger in early game and I can't really see why they would make this buff.
It is of course possible that they will follow up with a larger animation.
I believe gatherer shift-queuing has been slightly updated, although I have no way to doube-check with prepatch.
It appears that you can now shift-queue gatherers (although I've only tested Probes) to dump their loads before following the next action in the queue, where in the past I believe they failed to dump their loads before continuing to the next waypoint (they would nudge the building and then wander on to next point while still carrying the resource).
This is beneficial when selecting say 3 random Probes on minerals for gas, where you can now shift-queue them to the Nexus and then to the geyser without wasting the minerals they were (potentially) carrying. Another example may be when pulling all probes off during a harass and then shift-queueing them all back onto the Nexus then minerals. This will allow any gatherers carrying gas to dump their load before instead picking up minerals.
Prepatch, iirc, they would hit the Nexus without load dumping and then proceed to the geyser/mineralpatch and waste their gas/minerals when they swap for minerals/gas.
As I said, I've no way to double-check this was the case before, and I only noticed it while playing Protoss (but I assume it affects all races). This is likely related to the rally-point attack-move to move change, so there may be other subtle alterations to shift-click queuing etc.
EDIT: I did some more playing around and noticed that the 'failure to dump load' bug(?) still exists in some situations.
I had all mineral Probes at my main shift-clicked to my expo Nexus and then further shift-click queued to the minerals there. They failed to dump their loads and just nudged the expo Nexus before moving over to minerals (where then the one's already carrying minerals, of course, remembered they were carrying something and then returned to drop off their load).
Only situation I can see this being useful were it not the case would be when transferring gatherers to your expo and want to cash in their loads before they make the journey (vulnerable Probe trains are better off not being loaded with minerals if eaten). Although I didn't try actually queuing my main's Probes to their Nexus before sending them on their journey to the expo (which would make more practical sense anyway), I assume it would be the same and they nudge the main's Nexus without load dumping before heading to the expo.
EDIT2: It appears that this is a bit more than I thought and I have no idea what is prepatch and what isn't, so will just list what I see. Only tested with Probes.
A: Select a group of Probes, half carrying minerals and/or gas and half empty (matters not whether they were idle or mining). Click them to the Nexus (not shift-click). The mineral/gas-carrying ones will dump load and then return to mining OR gas, depending on which they were carrying. Gas carriers will divide equally between the immediate geysers. Probes without a load will then will sit and hug the Nexus forever.
B: Select a group of gathering Probes. Shift-click them to (main) Nexus and shift-click queue then to wherever you like such as over at your expo's minerals (or the ground next to your main ). Some of them will dump their loads, and some won't. Seems to be that: a) Probes that were in the process of returning will dump their minerals and then continue to next waypoint. b) Probes that were mining will leave the mineral patch holding a crystal, then nudge the Nexus without dumping load, then continue to next waypoint. c) Probes that were on their way back from dumping a load will pick up more minerals, then nudge the Nexus without load dumping, and then continue to next waypoint. Result: Depending on the individual stage of the auto-mining process a gatherer is at will depend on whether they are carrying minerals at the end of such a shift-click waypoint queue.
Is this significant? I'm not really qualified to judge, but it doesn't seem intended.
As an extra note, Probes remain selected after entering a geyser and will follow any commands given once they exit (that's new, yeah?). Probes within a geyser are not able to be selected, as before.
I haven't read through all 30 pages so this may have already been said, but the rally points work differently now. Units will no longer attack on their way to the rally point. They behave as though they've been right clicked somewhere instead of a-clicked.
I wasted a large portion of my army coming out of a nydus worm before I noticed this...
I don't know if this has been mentioned. Sorry if I miseed it in the excitement of Beta and the length of this thread...
It seems as though "pushing" enemy units doesn't have the same effect as it used to?
For example, I run 10 Zerglings into a probe line, the probes can now effectively surround and make a wall around the 'lings. Forgive me if I'm wrong (it has been a month since Phase 1), but it seemed as if before you could run through the probe line, pushing some of the probes out of the way. Now you just hit a probe wall.
Maybe somebody still on the old patch can confirm/deny what I'm remembering as the past behavior.
Maybe I'm just crazy.
To further add to this point, I was playing a 2v2 with a buddy, and our units were too compacted in a choke (whatever that terrible Lava map is. Death to lava maps! \o ) I tried to move my units outside of his clustered MMM ball so tank fire wouldn't shoot everything at once, but the units simply collided and nothing was done to spread them out. I know that before this patch your units could nudge your allies units out of the way if units were stuck in a ball...
On July 09 2010 12:49 InfiniteIce wrote: I don't know if this has been mentioned. Sorry if I miseed it in the excitement of Beta and the length of this thread...
It seems as though "pushing" enemy units doesn't have the same effect as it used to?
For example, I run 10 Zerglings into a probe line, the probes can now effectively surround and make a wall around the 'lings. Forgive me if I'm wrong (it has been a month since Phase 1), but it seemed as if before you could run through the probe line, pushing some of the probes out of the way. Now you just hit a probe wall.
Maybe somebody still on the old patch can confirm/deny what I'm remembering as the past behavior.
Maybe I'm just crazy.
To further add to this point, I was playing a 2v2 with a buddy, and our units were too compacted in a choke (whatever that terrible Lava map is. Death to lava maps! \o ) I tried to move my units outside of his clustered MMM ball so tank fire wouldn't shoot everything at once, but the units simply collided and nothing was done to spread them out. I know that before this patch your units could nudge your allies units out of the way if units were stuck in a ball...
The allied units thing is definitely true. Does it do that with your own units? I mean does your unit nudge your other units out of its way? If it doesn't this is going to be really, really annoying
I can't believe this game is 2 weeks from launch, it seems like they've completely broken it. Bnet is f'ing out, so many new bugs... wtf is going on?
#26 Transport units now move towards the unit to Load it, when you Right-Click a Transport with the units you want to load. Previously, only the units would move toward the transport, while the transport would just sit there. NOTE: It QUEUES this action, meaning it will first finish any orders you gave to it, before it moves to pick-up the units.
Replays don't auto save anymore as far as I can tell (sorta). It will keep the last 10 or so replays in the recent folder and then delete them as new games are played. To keep a replay you need to click the keep button the recent tab before it gets knocked off. Also the files dont appear to be saved to my documents anymore. Anyone know where it puts them? Maybe its saving all the files still but I can't find the folder where it does so.
Anyone else think a lot of these changes were unnecessary?
I felt the Zealot timing was fine and didn't need a nerf.
Terran Building selection is stupid.
Forcefield needs a nerf or be researchable. I think it's much more necessary than Concussive Shells were back when they didn't require a research.
Hellions no longer freezing, I guess that's a good thing?
Warp-in Cooldown, yes, that probably wasn't intended so it makes sense that it would be fixed. I think the 10 second morph time is eh though. I didn't really mind the old way.
Don't really care one way or the other about Hallucinated Colossus. It probably wasn't intended to break Forcefields, so it's probably a fix.
Yes, I felt the Stalker blinking fix probably wasn't intended to work that way, so I think it's a good thing that it was fixed. It wasn't overpowered though, so I didn't really mind before. Just a bit annoying.
I really did not mind Barracks building in 60 seconds, so I really don't think the extra 5 seconds for the Barracks is really necessary. Kind of throws off my Orbital Command timings a bit.
Really, I don't like the fact that Ultras now have a permanent half-Frenzy. But I guess the Upgrade Nerf kind of makes up for it.
Yeah, I don't think the Transfusion and Creep Tumor nerfs were necessary. I was fine the way it was with them. Transfusion was underused as is.
I definitely don't think the Reaper and Zealot nerfs were necessary. The Reaper is underused as is, and the Zealot timing causes all sort of potential problems for Protoss.
Don't mind the Psi Storm buff. If a Templar has energy, he might as well use it.
I really did not mind permanent Neural Parasite and think it's unecessary.
Infested Terran needed a buff so I'm glad they got one.
I mean, I'm willing to do anything, give the Stalkers their Blink Shenanigans back, bring Zealots back to 33 time, and maybe give Protoss a couple more buffs while you're at it. Just make Force Field a research upgrade with a cheap cost, but time comparable with that of Concussive Shells.
They should just put a "building gestion" menu in the options to let the player decide if he want to manage his building with tab or with multiple groups.
As a zerg player, i am was kind of disoriented when i miss grouped a rax with the wrong addon in a group. It messed everything. Since i'm not used to tab I prefer the new system. But every terran are used to tab so just let us the choice in the menu.
So hellions gonna be even harder to defends with zerglings... I really don't feel this change was necessary, they allready were really strong against zergs
Regarding the ForceField change vs Zerg, it seems to put it more on par with Fungal growth, which is only 75 mana, is guaranteed to hold the enemy with even one cast, allows zerglings to surround and attack, works on air and ground, and does damage. If FF is useful at places besides a choke, which seems more balanced to me, maps may be opened up more for better surrounds by Zerg. Siegetanks or Terran balls may be less a problem if there are less tight maps, too. Obviously sentries are also attack units and can be made in much higher numbers (until Ultras come) than Infestors, but their role should not be reduced to merely holding a choke until macro kicks in.
Anyway, it's way too early to call the FF change a problem especially with slower zealot build times.
If FF gets researchable, the question is: where? Most people would be going warpgate research with their cybercore so it doesnt really fit well into most builds if it is researchable at the CC.
Has anyone else noticed that attack move priority seems to have changed? It seems like units are more likely to just attack a building that's nearby rather than move a step or two to attack a unit.
I first noticed this when attack moving stalkers into an enemy's mineral line (some of them attacked his CC instead of the SCVs) and then again when pushing up a ramp (some units attacked the enemy gateway instead of his forces at the top).
On July 09 2010 23:08 Moutas wrote: I think the Protoss Photon Cannons do less damage now (from 25 to 20), were they always 20 or is this a new change?
-when selecting a combination of gateways and warpgates, 'G' does not transform gateways into warpgates. slight inconvenience/annoyance -dotted circles for pylon power fields. when there are multiple pylons near each other and the dotted circles are intersecting, it's not immediately clear where the power fields are. the solid blue shade was easier to recognize
Hey guys, I'm at work (which happens to be a University) and I can't play due to lag. I can enter battle.net super fast but after that everything is slow and playing a game is impossible. (it worked very well in phase 1) Is there something new this patch or did my work somehow semi-block the game. Thanks for your help.
I believe I've found another change (not related to balance) but still worth noting. It might just be a bug.
FPV in replays seems to be broken. When I watch someone's first person, the camera never tabs away from the main HQ building. Anyone else having this issue?
One thing i noticed is that when you double click on a gateway or warpgate it no longer selects all of the gateways and warpgates on the screen it only selects all of the one you clicked, not a huge change but something i would do so that i could warp units and make warp gates in the same keyboard motion. However when i select gateways and warpgates i have been able to press "g" to get the gateways to change into warpgates
Also, not 100% a balance change but if you rally to a unit and the unit dies, instead of the rally point becoming the location of their death it just disappears altogether.
On July 09 2010 23:29 getSome[703] wrote: I believe I've found another change (not related to balance) but still worth noting. It might just be a bug.
FPV in replays seems to be broken. When I watch someone's first person, the camera never tabs away from the main HQ building. Anyone else having this issue?
You cannot SHIFT QUEUE zerglings to morph into banelings once they reach their destination anymore.
I used to move my zerglings towards the corner of someone's base and then shift queue the morph into baneling command. They would start morphing once they reached their destination. Now they just ignore the shift command and start morphing on the spot.
Yeah, I don't think the Transfusion and Creep Tumor nerfs were necessary. I was fine the way it was with them. Transfusion was underused as is.
I definitely don't think the Reaper and Zealot nerfs were necessary. The Reaper is underused as is, and the Zealot timing causes all sort of potential problems for Protoss.
.
These are like pre-nerfs. They see the potential power of transfusion and creep tumor and decide to nerf it before there are a ton of complaints. Also protoss all-ins are pretty powerful and this gives players a few more seconds to prepare for a reaper rush.
On July 09 2010 23:29 getSome[703] wrote: I believe I've found another change (not related to balance) but still worth noting. It might just be a bug.
FPV in replays seems to be broken. When I watch someone's first person, the camera never tabs away from the main HQ building. Anyone else having this issue?
Do you mean the wireframe/selection? Try pressing escape whenever it gets "stuck"... that used to get around that problem.
And I just watched a replay where my fungal growrth hit right next to a banshee. On slow, the green splashes even hit the banshees. BUT the FG missed. It may have been a weird cliff mechanic thing with air units, since they were hovering at the edge of a cliff.
You have to hit the air unit position helper, not the air unit itself. The helper is a small line pointing towards the ground, and it has a small circle at the the bottom iirc. It is only shown while casting. Basically you have to cast FG a bit below the Banshees, at the point where they would be if you look at them straight from the top.
i really don't like the parasite thing, this means that it is next to impossible to hijack terran with zerg, or you would have to hijack about 12 scvs, each continuing the cc, with toss, its easy, getting a probe is the problem.
On July 10 2010 03:54 spinesheath wrote: You have to hit the air unit position helper, not the air unit itself. The helper is a small line pointing towards the ground, and it has a small circle at the the bottom iirc. It is only shown while casting. Basically you have to cast FG a bit below the Banshees, at the point where they would be if you look at them straight from the top.
Yea I know, but the range and radius both seem to be smaller. Can anyone confirm?
Is it just me or is FF bugging the HELL out of unit pathing now. Formerly, it was treated like scenery and they pathed around it. Now, if one of my units is close to a FF when it's dropped, it just plain STOPS. It sits there and does nothing until I give it more orders. I've noticed this while using them and having them used on me, mass sentry will probably be making a comeback.
On July 10 2010 04:38 deth2munkies wrote: Is it just me or is FF bugging the HELL out of unit pathing now. Formerly, it was treated like scenery and they pathed around it. Now, if one of my units is close to a FF when it's dropped, it just plain STOPS. It sits there and does nothing until I give it more orders. I've noticed this while using them and having them used on me, mass sentry will probably be making a comeback.
Mass sentry i doubt, because their damage is useless, but at least they might make the now fewer zealots more useful.
Overall, I like the changes. With one exception, which is the creep nerf. I don't feel it was OP or imba and it lead to some very interesting play for players who were smart enough and capable enough to use it. It is the coolest unique aspect of Zerg, and they nerfed it pretty hard. Was doubling it really necessary?
On July 10 2010 07:50 DTown wrote: Overall, I like the changes. With one exception, which is the creep nerf. I don't feel it was OP or imba and it lead to some very interesting play for players who were smart enough and capable enough to use it. It is the coolest unique aspect of Zerg, and they nerfed it pretty hard. Was doubling it really necessary?
If you time it well, it don't have that big effect on the game. You'll still be able to creep the map pretty good, only somewhat slower. No big deal imo.
On July 10 2010 07:50 DTown wrote: Overall, I like the changes. With one exception, which is the creep nerf. I don't feel it was OP or imba and it lead to some very interesting play for players who were smart enough and capable enough to use it. It is the coolest unique aspect of Zerg, and they nerfed it pretty hard. Was doubling it really necessary?
its blizzard balancing, something imba? just pick some multiplier and do that
I still don't understand the hellion change. Can someone explain this too me? Even playing around with it in game, I wasn't able to figure out what had changed.
Even though I'm 99% sure this is a bug and not a deliberate change, I though since you had some bugs listed in your OP I would say something about it, sorry if it has already been mentioned.
At least for me since patch 16, Ultralisk Health which is meant to be 500 is reduced to 450 while burrowed and only returns to 500HP once un-burrowed. It's not a UI bug as I first suspected, as the tests I have done have resulted in the burrowed Ultralisk dieing in fewer hits then when above ground.
On July 10 2010 09:14 BeJe77 wrote: is it just me or does the game feel very slow paced now?
What I mean by slow paced is the speed of the game, everything sort of feels sluggish or is it just me
may be hardware issues, people have complained about lag/video problems in phase 2.
It's not that the movement feels too sluggish or anything but its more like everything feels slow compared to Phase 1 of the beta, everything seems to have slowed down especially the pace, unless it's just because I haven't played it 3-4 weeks hence why I feel this way. I don't have problems running any of today's games at max settings but I'll look into it to be sure, might be driver or some setting messing it up.
On July 10 2010 09:14 BeJe77 wrote: is it just me or does the game feel very slow paced now?
What I mean by slow paced is the speed of the game, everything sort of feels sluggish or is it just me
may be hardware issues, people have complained about lag/video problems in phase 2.
It's not that the movement feels too sluggish or anything but its more like everything feels slow compared to Phase 1 of the beta, everything seems to have slowed down especially the pace, unless it's just because I haven't played it 3-4 weeks hence why I feel this way. I don't have problems running any of today's games at max settings but I'll look into it to be sure, might be driver or some setting messing it up.
I noticed a couple of streamers saying the same thing. (Or maybe it was one saying it twice) Weird anyhow.
On July 10 2010 09:14 BeJe77 wrote: is it just me or does the game feel very slow paced now?
What I mean by slow paced is the speed of the game, everything sort of feels sluggish or is it just me
may be hardware issues, people have complained about lag/video problems in phase 2.
It's not that the movement feels too sluggish or anything but its more like everything feels slow compared to Phase 1 of the beta, everything seems to have slowed down especially the pace, unless it's just because I haven't played it 3-4 weeks hence why I feel this way. I don't have problems running any of today's games at max settings but I'll look into it to be sure, might be driver or some setting messing it up.
I noticed a couple of streamers saying the same thing. (Or maybe it was one saying it twice) Weird anyhow.
*Impatiently waiting for EU to come back up*
Thank god we don't have real ID otherwise I would of had a stalker ...once EU gets up let me know what you think. I kind of hope it's just because I have not played it in while hahaha because the game speed seems slow slow :X
On July 10 2010 10:22 FliedLice wrote: while fucking up terrans barracks, did they at least take away the key from toss to select all warpgates?
I don't see how the two are relevant to one another.
And no, they did not.
Though even if they did, I would simply hotkey all my warpgates to 4.
Also, to people saying the game speed seems slow, I agree with you.
When I hosted a few CGs vs friends of mine, I kept asking them if I hosted it on faster, does the speed seem right to you guys? I thought maybe I was just out of touch with SC2, but maybe not, since it seems I'm not the only one.....
On July 10 2010 09:14 BeJe77 wrote: is it just me or does the game feel very slow paced now?
What I mean by slow paced is the speed of the game, everything sort of feels sluggish or is it just me
may be hardware issues, people have complained about lag/video problems in phase 2.
It's not that the movement feels too sluggish or anything but its more like everything feels slow compared to Phase 1 of the beta, everything seems to have slowed down especially the pace, unless it's just because I haven't played it 3-4 weeks hence why I feel this way. I don't have problems running any of today's games at max settings but I'll look into it to be sure, might be driver or some setting messing it up.
I noticed a couple of streamers saying the same thing. (Or maybe it was one saying it twice) Weird anyhow.
*Impatiently waiting for EU to come back up*
Yeah when I was playing the ai when beta was still down the game felt much faster than it is now. It makes it easier for me to macro at least.
On July 10 2010 09:14 BeJe77 wrote: is it just me or does the game feel very slow paced now?
What I mean by slow paced is the speed of the game, everything sort of feels sluggish or is it just me
may be hardware issues, people have complained about lag/video problems in phase 2.
It's not that the movement feels too sluggish or anything but its more like everything feels slow compared to Phase 1 of the beta, everything seems to have slowed down especially the pace, unless it's just because I haven't played it 3-4 weeks hence why I feel this way. I don't have problems running any of today's games at max settings but I'll look into it to be sure, might be driver or some setting messing it up.
I noticed a couple of streamers saying the same thing. (Or maybe it was one saying it twice) Weird anyhow.
*Impatiently waiting for EU to come back up*
Yeah when I was playing the ai when beta was still down the game felt much faster than it is now. It makes it easier for me to macro at least.
for some reason I am also thinking this as well as the other people.
i was obs'ing a game that involved two friends, and I asked them if they put this on fast mode instead of faster. this was just me looking at the speed the workers moved at.
I don't completely like the new cybernetics core animation, I mean in sc1 the rotating speed of the core while researching was supposed to be super fast and looked much cooler.
This has probably been mentioned about a billion times but I just played my first game and the minerals have changed colour to a deeper blue, looks very nice.
On July 10 2010 17:19 BishopONe wrote: I don't completely like the new cybernetics core animation, I mean in sc1 the rotating speed of the core while researching was supposed to be super fast and looked much cooler.
I did a search and didn't see it mentioned yet... but the terrain beneath each spawn (behind the minerals) has been modified on Desert Oasis so that Cannons/Bunkers and in particularly Reapers can no longer reach the mineral line easily. Reapers are now required to travel much further before they can gain access to the mineral line.
i was just able to log in (europe) and tried the new AI i spawned as zerg and i want to mention that the cd on creep tumor was 15 sec for me i can NOT confirm 30 sec CD on creep tumor
I can't remember the exactly how slow it was in phase one, but I am confident the Mothership has a much faster top speed now. I first noticed it watching a recent show match (+ Show Spoiler +
so all credit to White-Ra for finding it
), and after testing it myself aggressive recalls and the Mothership in general seemed far more viable. It's initial acceleration is still slow but it continues to build speed, and it maintains that speed even when it turns as long as it keeps moving.
On July 10 2010 23:46 nyshak wrote: Roaches and Infestors need to be able to burrow beneath force fields. I really hope this is just a bug.
You just need to choose where you fight more wisely (is that a word?) to not get totally raped by them
Also the zealot nerf isnt that huge for everyone that was complaining about it, its so minute i dont even see a diff.
ALSO AM I THE ONLY ONE who thinks Protoss attack upgrade should be changed to A? Instead of Armor being on A and Attack being on ..G???
I always get armor instead of attack ;;
Why? I was not aware of any imbalance roaches and infestors caused because they could move beneath force fields. If anything it made sentries more worthwhile vs. terran and less so vs. zerg. That kind of diversity is what makes SC so cool.
Plus Tunneling claws is a T2 upgrade, if you really want to beat zerg with force fields you should probably use them before there is a Roach Warren, a Lair and the upgrade.
creep tumor reproduce cooldown is still 15, and roach speed now requires lair, so another nice ninja nerf to roaches, what has that unit done to blizzard ? :S
unit speed numbers are now listed in the UI when you hover over their armor.
For zerg it tells the bonus in parenthesis but it's not like how the bonus is for armored is now (its like it used to be) you have to add it together yourself.
Also the zealot nerf isnt that huge for everyone that was complaining about it, its so minute i dont even see a diff.
It's not the first zealot or even the 2nd that is really effected by this change. It's the 3/4/5 ones that are. Now instead of having 4 zealots for your push there is an extra 10-20 seconds(Depending 1/2gate) on them. I'm not sure how big a change it is but I don't think you can call it minute
I think I may have figured out the Changeling seeing thing. I almost always get an Overseer, and my Overseer saw it. I do remember patch notes saying that Changelings can be revealed by detectors, so maybe you guys were lucky enough to have detectors?
I need to test more, but if you guys can do it, that would be helpful.
Also the zealot nerf isnt that huge for everyone that was complaining about it, its so minute i dont even see a diff.
It's not the first zealot or even the 2nd that is really effected by this change. It's the 3/4/5 ones that are. Now instead of having 4 zealots for your push there is an extra 10-20 seconds(Depending 1/2gate) on them. I'm not sure how big a change it is but I don't think you can call it minute
As soon as i said thati played 2 more games vs zerg, and vs 13pool you'll have like 1 1/4 zealots out vs 6 lings, ive lost like 2-4 games since then because ive had to run probes around because zealots take ages to make.
Pool needs a 5 sec build time increase imo or something to balance it out atleast
On July 08 2010 14:39 Uranium wrote: Blink stalkers can no longer blink over unpathable terrain!!!!!!
Just lost a PvT on Scrap Station cuz I proxied him and he lifted off to the island, I went for blink stalkers and GUESS WHAT "Couldn't find teleport location". GG for me
I just blinked to the island on Desert Oasis. I think you just need sight.
Also the zealot nerf isnt that huge for everyone that was complaining about it, its so minute i dont even see a diff.
It's not the first zealot or even the 2nd that is really effected by this change. It's the 3/4/5 ones that are. Now instead of having 4 zealots for your push there is an extra 10-20 seconds(Depending 1/2gate) on them. I'm not sure how big a change it is but I don't think you can call it minute
As soon as i said thati played 2 more games vs zerg, and vs 13pool you'll have like 1 1/4 zealots out vs 6 lings, ive lost like 2-4 games since then because ive had to run probes around because zealots take ages to make.
Pool needs a 5 sec build time increase imo or something to balance it out atleast
Ya I've been wondering why I've been losing to ling rushes! And arb, +5 seconds per zealot is HUGE. Now early zealot pressure isn't even an option in PvZ. I'm wondering if that's why bliz made the nerf. I don't see why they wouldn't list that in the patch changes.
Didn't read all 36 pages, but Zealots seem to move faster now. Don't have figures, but they outrun tanks/marines/marauders and I recall them running at same speed before. I tested zealot speed before new patch with and without charge upgrade (which makes them 20% faster), but lost the times! If anyone can confirm/deny this I'd appreciate it! Zealots have same speed as stalkers?
You are now forced to make a decision as to whether you want to keep chrono boosting probes, or the zealot. I don't see the zealot time increase as that detrimental. It adds more "strategy" to a "real-time strategy" game, instead of mindless chrono boosting probes.
Also the zealot nerf isnt that huge for everyone that was complaining about it, its so minute i dont even see a diff.
It's not the first zealot or even the 2nd that is really effected by this change. It's the 3/4/5 ones that are. Now instead of having 4 zealots for your push there is an extra 10-20 seconds(Depending 1/2gate) on them. I'm not sure how big a change it is but I don't think you can call it minute
As soon as i said thati played 2 more games vs zerg, and vs 13pool you'll have like 1 1/4 zealots out vs 6 lings, ive lost like 2-4 games since then because ive had to run probes around because zealots take ages to make.
Pool needs a 5 sec build time increase imo or something to balance it out atleast
Ya I've been wondering why I've been losing to ling rushes! And arb, +5 seconds per zealot is HUGE. Now early zealot pressure isn't even an option in PvZ. I'm wondering if that's why bliz made the nerf. I don't see why they wouldn't list that in the patch changes.
I didnt think it was huge until i noticed that, zerg doesnt even have to 6 pool because they'll have 6-8 lings at your base vs 1 zealot reallllly early its kinda stupid.
They need to add 5 secs to spawning pool time because i believe someone said zealots got 5 secs because of terran rax nerf. Except they left zerg alone and its killer
On July 11 2010 03:40 Stition wrote: Didn't read all 36 pages, but Zealots seem to move faster now. Don't have figures, but they outrun tanks/marines/marauders and I recall them running at same speed before. I tested zealot speed before new patch with and without charge upgrade (which makes them 20% faster), but lost the times! If anyone can confirm/deny this I'd appreciate it! Zealots have same speed as stalkers?
I dont know if they have the same speed as stalkers without the upgrade, but now that you mention it i noticed they kept up with my stalkers really well..(when upgraded)
I did a quick search and couldn't find this anywhere, so I may be wrong but... Archons seem to move much much faster now. I'm not sure if anyone has played around with it, but I was fooling around in a 2vAI game and it felt like they moved incredibly quickly compared to the previous version.
Maps have been changed, at least two 2v2 maps I've tried where they now block off each team with destructible rocks or like the whole center of that desert map where there now is a big hole in the ground. Why?
On July 11 2010 04:28 Energizer wrote: If im not mistaken, hasen't the turret been given a range buff? Right now without the auto tracking upgrade, a turret has range 7. Wasn't it 6 before?
No it was 7 without autotrack for awhile.
On July 11 2010 04:33 Freezard wrote: Maps have been changed, at least two 2v2 maps I've tried where they now block off each team with destructible rocks or like the whole center of that desert map where there now is a big hole in the ground. Why?
Are you playing the novice matches? They add destructible rocks and other changes to the maps to avoid a lot of early game pressure for novices.
for those who dont know this +5 rax delays the 12rax orbital command bo (which everyone uses) actual OC by 5sec too, but in the midgame i feel no difference in the rax nerf
OP forgot to wrote down my mechanic about transports down + Show Spoiler +
On July 09 2010 03:58 MorroW wrote: when sending transports to unload it only gives the command to transports with cargo in it. aka if u got units in half ur medivacs and click drop on an island only the ones with stuff in them will fly to the island while in first beta phase all of them went there and looked like morons
i found it interesting anyway :<
zealots feel faster now, maybe im just crazy but slow lots seem to catch up with marines now instead of being same speed
On July 11 2010 03:56 HaruHaru wrote: still waiting for them to add alt qq >.>
Creep now provides the speed boost to any speed upgrades gotten instead of just on the base speed, with upgrades added after. This means zerglings and roaches are now even faster on creep after they have their speed upgrades.
On July 11 2010 09:07 Unfurl wrote: Sry if this was mentioned, but roaches grow bright spikes when they have their lair upgrades, makes them look really baller and neon-ish
That sounds awesome! I'd love to see a screenshot.
On July 11 2010 09:36 Darkn3ss wrote: Wow! I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it but here it is. (Pardon me for posting in bold but I think it's a pretty big deal!)
Infestor's Neural Parasite: No longer and infinite channeled spell (it expires after a certain time)
BUT
Infestors can now BURROW after they NP an enemy unit. (Hit "E" select unit, hit "R" and burrow to safety).
I'll try it again to make sure I'm not crazy (if anyone else would like to try it as well it would be cool!)
That would be really awesome. You can use Infested Terrans whilst burrowed already. . . That would open up tons of new possibilities. Again, screenshots would be awesome.
On July 11 2010 09:36 Darkn3ss wrote: Wow! I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it but here it is. (Pardon me for posting in bold but I think it's a pretty big deal!)
Infestor's Neural Parasite: No longer and infinite channeled spell (it expires after a certain time)
BUT
Infestors can now BURROW after they NP an enemy unit. (Hit "E" select unit, hit "R" and burrow to safety).
I'll try it again to make sure I'm not crazy (if anyone else would like to try it as well it would be cool!)
Just tested. It doesn't work. The burrow up doesn't appear to be disabled, but selecting burrow with an infestor currently casting neural parasite will do nothing. What may be happening is you having your non-neural parasiting infestors in your control group burrow when you select burrow.
On July 11 2010 09:36 Darkn3ss wrote: Wow! I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it but here it is. (Pardon me for posting in bold but I think it's a pretty big deal!)
Infestor's Neural Parasite: No longer and infinite channeled spell (it expires after a certain time)
BUT
Infestors can now BURROW after they NP an enemy unit. (Hit "E" select unit, hit "R" and burrow to safety).
I'll try it again to make sure I'm not crazy (if anyone else would like to try it as well it would be cool!)
Just tested. It doesn't work. The burrow up doesn't appear to be disabled, but selecting burrow with an infestor currently casting neural parasite will do nothing. What may be happening is you having your non-neural parasiting infestors in your control group burrow when you select burrow.
Maybe that's the bug? If you have 2 infestors one NP's and other doesn't then both burrow?
I don't like the transport change because the transports with units in them are more valuable and they are put into a more vulnerable position. I mean its not a big deal it is an easy fix just right click with all the transports first then drop off but i will probably lose a couple games getting used to it.
BUG: Overseer can waste its energy and cast contaminate on Cannons, they get covered in zerg slime and the cannons continue to shoot (as they should) right through the spell.
In phase 1, once Overseers were given this ability, defensive structures were no longer able to be targeted and it only stopped unit production and upgrades. Targeting a defensive structure USED to come up with an error message in red. Now it just looks funky.
i dont think they can do move shot. ive tried it in the editor and mutas still stop if you command them to patrol move after the enemy unit or press a after the enemy unit. and the hold button doesnt function the same for mutas in sc2 as it was in BW
I don't think this was in phase 1, but muta can now kinda attack on the move. Not nearly to the same level of sc1 by any means, but you can get a couple shots off on fleeing muta and what not.
On July 11 2010 18:42 ejac wrote: I don't think this was in phase 1, but muta can now kinda attack on the move. Not nearly to the same level of sc1 by any means, but you can get a couple shots off on fleeing muta and what not.
I can confirm this.
Mutalisks now have a damage point of 0 (pretty sure it used to be 0.5 which means it would shoot half-way through its animation or cooldown), which is the same as the reaper and marauder. This means that there is no delay before shooting. Technically you can move while shooting now, but slower deceleration would make it more fluid. Still its better than before.
The problem though is the rate of fire of all the units and stacking making this not as effective as BW, as fleeing often just means mutas getting ass raped by machine guns.
Here's kind of a big one; didn't see it mentioned in the OP. There was a pretty big change to what happens if you have a rally point set to a unit, and that unit dies. Prior to Patch 16, your rally point would be set wherever the unit was standing when it died. As of Patch 16, the rally point just disappears.
On July 12 2010 00:17 nuclear_nub wrote: Here's kind of a big one; didn't see it mentioned in the OP. There was a pretty big change to what happens if you have a rally point set to a unit, and that unit dies. Prior to Patch 16, your rally point would be set wherever the unit was standing when it died. As of Patch 16, the rally point just disappears.
This thread is for unlisted changes. This change is listed in the patch notes good sumaritan.
Does it seem like to anyone else that at the score screen for units made they are counting larvae or something weird for zerg? Like in every game I play the zerg has some crazy amount of units made on the score screen that doesn't match what really happened in the game. I don't remember it always being like this.
yea nydus worms are only destroyed if every part of the worm is killed, been like that since implemented ^^ I hope that infestor bug isn't "fixed" now that NP isn't perma.
On July 12 2010 05:46 PrinceXizor wrote: yea nydus worms are only destroyed if every part of the worm is killed, been like that since implemented ^^ I hope that infestor bug isn't "fixed" now that NP isn't perma.
Well that sucks, i expected them to work like the Nydus canal and if you kill the network the entire thing dies
the infestor thing encourages micro so much because u must be unborrow to make spell then keep the unit selected, really awesome addition. hope they dont consider it a bug an removes it, same with fazing :p
This thread is for unlisted changes. This change is listed in the patch notes good sumaritan.
Is it? The patch notes mention that rally points work as a "move" and not an "attack move" command now, but I didn't see any references to rally points disappearing when the unit that they're linked to is killed. Either I'm just really dense, or there has been an undocumented change (bug?) in addition to the one listed in the notes.
On July 12 2010 10:20 MorroW wrote: the infestor thing encourages micro so much because u must be unborrow to make spell then keep the unit selected, really awesome addition. hope they dont consider it a bug an removes it, same with fazing :p
On July 12 2010 10:20 MorroW wrote: the infestor thing encourages micro so much because u must be unborrow to make spell then keep the unit selected, really awesome addition. hope they dont consider it a bug an removes it, same with fazing :p
On July 12 2010 05:46 PrinceXizor wrote: yea nydus worms are only destroyed if every part of the worm is killed, been like that since implemented ^^ I hope that infestor bug isn't "fixed" now that NP isn't perma.
Well that sucks, i expected them to work like the Nydus canal and if you kill the network the entire thing dies
sucks
I don't think that's a good idea. Most players will have 1 Nydus Network, and sniping it would be too easy to kill all the other ones that were created. It cost 100/200 for a reason.
By the way, if you kill the network, the zerg player will not be able to create more nydus worms, so he can only A) try to build another one or B) Try to exit all his units before all the nydus worms are dead. I think that's a reasonable tradeoff.
The Ghost ability where it doesn't attack enemy targets (useful when the Ghost is cloaked and doesn't want to reveal that it is around by taking random potshots at enemies) is now a toggleable ability. ie you don't have to press it every time you give the Ghost another command.
This thread is for unlisted changes. This change is listed in the patch notes good sumaritan.
Is it? The patch notes mention that rally points work as a "move" and not an "attack move" command now, but I didn't see any references to rally points disappearing when the unit that they're linked to is killed. Either I'm just really dense, or there has been an undocumented change (bug?) in addition to the one listed in the notes.
Yeah this wasn't mentioned in the patch notes. I was really surprised to find my units were piling up back at the home home base when I was playing. I don't know if it was a good or bad change but I am glad you figured out why, I guess I can't rally to a single marine anymore.
On July 12 2010 23:43 Cade)Flayer wrote: The Ghost ability where it doesn't attack enemy targets (useful when the Ghost is cloaked and doesn't want to reveal that it is around by taking random potshots at enemies) is now a toggleable ability. ie you don't have to press it every time you give the Ghost another command.
On July 12 2010 23:43 Cade)Flayer wrote: The Ghost ability where it doesn't attack enemy targets (useful when the Ghost is cloaked and doesn't want to reveal that it is around by taking random potshots at enemies) is now a toggleable ability. ie you don't have to press it every time you give the Ghost another command.
Very good change!
Damn, came here to report this.
The Ghost actually puts his rifle in his backpack.
I don't remember if this was changed in an earlier patch (or has always been there because I haven't seen it used very often), but when roaches have the tunneling claws upgrade they grow these cool-looking spikes on their backs.
I did some testing with the ultra's AoE. Apparently the data change (the 45 degree arc placed before the 180 degree arc) is an override. It seems that the ultra's AoE is nerfed to 45, instead of having two area checks for each attack. If I'm wrong please correct me.
On July 12 2010 23:43 Cade)Flayer wrote: The Ghost ability where it doesn't attack enemy targets (useful when the Ghost is cloaked and doesn't want to reveal that it is around by taking random potshots at enemies) is now a toggleable ability. ie you don't have to press it every time you give the Ghost another command.
Very good change!
Damn, came here to report this.
The Ghost actually puts his rifle in his backpack.
The Ghost on the left is set to hold fire.
Nice find! I'll check that out! BTW you meant right, not left, am I right?
Can't remember if this was in before or not, but I noticed that now units lifted with the Phoenix's Graviton Beam are squirming and struggling in mid-air. I'm kinda sure I never saw this in phase 1.
For example, a lifted Hydra will flail its arms about and struggle to escape. Will need to try with other units as well.
On July 12 2010 10:20 MorroW wrote: the infestor thing encourages micro so much because u must be unborrow to make spell then keep the unit selected, really awesome addition. hope they dont consider it a bug an removes it, same with fazing :p
On July 13 2010 01:52 arb wrote: Idk if this is new but hitting B rewinds a replay
just found this out earlier
It was always there, and hitting F makes it jump forward again. I think B jumps 15 seconds back and F jumps 5 minutes ahead or to the front of the replay.
wow I never even use reapers, maybe 1 once in a while in tvt, but did they SERIOUSLY nerf reapers?
Lol no one even uses reapers. Blizzard is really clueless sometimes. I think a -5 second build time would have been a much more expected change on their part.
nerf the most underused unit in the game... smart.
On July 13 2010 19:51 superman. wrote: wow I never even use reapers, maybe 1 once in a while in tvt, but did they SERIOUSLY nerf reapers?
Lol no one even uses reapers. Blizzard is really clueless sometimes. I think a -5 second build time would have been a much more expected change on their part.
nerf the most underused unit in the game... smart.
maybe nerf the mothership, and archons next. lol
That's a bad analogy. Archons and Motherships actually have a purpose, albeit not a very good one. Reapers need to be entirely redone before release if they expect us to use them.
On July 13 2010 20:33 HubertFelix wrote: I'm zerg and ~40% of my ZvT, I am reaper harassed. I'm surprised to never see any reaper raid (5-6 reapers) in the late game.
I guess it's because of the game is too young (same reason for nydus in late game).
I had the same thoughts, people are trying to exploit every little trick from the beginning but really forgetting about late game harass and another cute stuff that slows the opponent. Really the game is probably too young. It seems to me like: build a bigger army and win one fight kind of a game. Same was SC 1 first years. I really hope it will turn out better than i expect now.
On July 13 2010 20:33 HubertFelix wrote: I'm zerg and ~40% of my ZvT, I am reaper harassed. I'm surprised to never see any reaper raid (5-6 reapers) in the late game.
I guess it's because of the game is too young (same reason for nydus in late game).
It's probably because against Protoss they can easily just warp in 2-3 stalkers to deal with it, against Zerg they'll have zerglings with speed and overlords everywhere to spot and against Terran... Well you could get lucky with Terran but the moment a marauder with concussive shells pops out you're screwed. They're just too gas heavy and, more importantly, shut down your barracks for 45 seconds and die so damn fast.
I've had people try to do late game reaper rushes with like 10 reapers before, they just ran into some blink stalkers and died hilariously fast, good use of 500 gas and 450 barracks-seconds there...
Reapers will need a really big change to be useful beyond scouting and opening game harrassment.
On July 11 2010 09:07 Unfurl wrote: Sry if this was mentioned, but roaches grow bright spikes when they have their lair upgrades, makes them look really baller and neon-ish
This actually isn't new either. It used to indicate that the roaches had the upgrade that made them regenerate faster while burrowed. When they removed that upgrade and combined it with tunneling claws they also included the spikes visual. It all went down I think that last patch before phase one ended.
On July 13 2010 22:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Q: Did the bunker buildtime change? It feels slower - currently listed as 40 but I don't remember what the old one was.
On July 13 2010 22:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Q: Did the bunker buildtime change? It feels slower - currently listed as 40 but I don't remember what the old one was.
It was 30 seconds at the end of Beta phase 1.
10 seconds? i didnt feel a difference :S
i guess 1 month really kills ur sense of timing huh
On July 13 2010 22:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Q: Did the bunker buildtime change? It feels slower - currently listed as 40 but I don't remember what the old one was.
It's just you. I mean that literally - Blizz finally nerfed Jinro.
If I am correct a change with the tank is: that at first you could move a tank and then shift siege it. when the tank arrives it automatically goes into siege mode. Now, when I move my tank and press SHIFT siege it sieges immediately, instead of first going to the proper place.
On July 14 2010 00:01 DeckTech wrote: If I am correct a change with the tank is: that at first you could move a tank and then shift siege it. when the tank arrives it automatically goes into siege mode. Now, when I move my tank and press SHIFT siege it sieges immediately, instead of first going to the proper place.
It seemed to be working for me yesterday, I will have to test is again tonight and see if I was wrong
Wow the new "bugs" with the burrow cast infestor are quite amazing. Also looks like smart cast doesn't work and each spell can only be cast one at a time. If blizzard keeps it in the game, this will be HUUGGGEE, since it actually makes not using smart cast and microing more effective than using smart cast.
On July 14 2010 00:01 DeckTech wrote: If I am correct a change with the tank is: that at first you could move a tank and then shift siege it. when the tank arrives it automatically goes into siege mode. Now, when I move my tank and press SHIFT siege it sieges immediately, instead of first going to the proper place.
It seemed to be working for me yesterday, I will have to test is again tonight and see if I was wrong
Same here, this was for sure working yesterday.
Also I don't understand the issue with smart cast listed above... it is only supposed to cast 1 at a time... that's what smart cast is...
In a team game, if one of your teammates leaves the game or is disconnected, the resources mined from that player that left are now split between the remaining teammates. In phase 1, it used to be that the player that left still had their own pool of money that could be used to build stuff by using their buildings, but now that money essentially becomes everyone's money.
This can be exploited in 2v2 maybe (ie. have one player leave the game immediately after starting, which essentially lets you share money at the zero minute mark. Macro up a bunch of drones very quickly and win?)
Oh and also baneling art has changed... it is a lot easier to see what color the baneling is (what player that baneling belongs to).
Why would they even change the bunker build time? It hardly makes sense, bunker rushes for one weren't even that powerful against any player who wasn't AFK when the game started and they were incredibly rare in the first place.
With this change and the zealot change it appears like Blizzard is trying to get rid of all forms early pressure - perhaps we should all 6cc/6hatch/6nexus from now on
On July 14 2010 11:28 Zelniq wrote: this is just going to fall away without anyone reading it unless I bump. my last bump was before it got renamed, so nobody paid attention
Bump.... Bump it up! But for real, the whole infestor "bug" does not seem like that Huge of a deal. I think the infestor should be able to do all of its spells while burrowed, just limit the range when it is burrowed. That way you can do it from farther if it is vulnerable but to get close is dangerous if the opponent has detection!
I find it rather amusing that Blizzard accidentally published the internal version to the live servers. Whoops. Someone at Blizz HQ is probably getting teased for that rookie mistake.
What about the one of the biggest of them all ? Pathing!? Seriously, units are suddenly so dumb now and i even had scenario's where units just did not move at all ..
On July 14 2010 11:50 aepal wrote: What about the one of the biggest of them all ? Pathing!? Seriously, units are suddenly so dumb now and i even had scenario's where units just did not move at all ..
That sounds like a personal problem
I have not had any issue with the "Genius" pathing in SC2 and i havn't heard any new news since phase 2 started
On July 14 2010 11:46 Wr3k wrote: I was really hoping the NP to 12 seconds wasn't intentional.
Last game I played I NP two thors and they both were back to normal before the end of the battle ... you now gotta focus on killing the thors asap even during battles which makes it significantly worse than it was... as the Terran player won't try to kill it anymore...
On July 14 2010 11:50 aepal wrote: What about the one of the biggest of them all ? Pathing!? Seriously, units are suddenly so dumb now and i even had scenario's where units just did not move at all ..
That sounds like a personal problem
I have not had any issue with the "Genius" pathing in SC2 and i havn't heard any new news since phase 2 started
Let me assure you it is not a personal problem, maybe i just play so much i notice these bugs/glitches with units lately.
I know i am not the only one experiencing this. Anyways the reason i mention this is because there isn't any patchnotes or whatsoever regarding pathing, and they did something with it 1000%
unfortunatley this means that zerg can no longer "hijack" terran by NP scv.
only way is, hijack 40 scvs, start a cc, then make a TINy bit more progress each NP.
but toss finishes the buildings
while this change was intended to not make infestors vs thors so powerful, i liked making bcs with zerg after abandoning the zerg, and all the enemys are like,
Yea bcs are sorta iwin buttons. I dont get the unlisted patch changes. Whats the use of patch notes when the majority of changes are unlisted? is it crowd control? a way to nerf forum trolls and QQ? or what?
i definitely saw the pathing problem earlier today when I tried to make a bunker and my scv repeatedly marched straight into a stationary marauder that was standing next to one rax and nothing else.
On July 14 2010 11:50 aepal wrote: What about the one of the biggest of them all ? Pathing!? Seriously, units are suddenly so dumb now and i even had scenario's where units just did not move at all ..
this is likely a result of forcefields. they screw up the pathing system bad.
Zerg interface improvements are intentional non-balance related changes, but terran interface improvements are unintentional balance related changes? How is this not biased...?
On July 14 2010 15:33 Plexa wrote: Pretty sure you can see mules being called down through the fog of war now =/
Heh, yeah this freaked me out earlier when I had speedlings in some guy's nat and saw a gigantic mule pod zooming across the top of the screen screen into his main. Definitely still in the game.
for me, I like the ghost change the best. B4 it kept resetting and my ghosts would shoot and have a big "HELLO COME TO ME OBSERVER" sign on their heads. Now they will maintain hold fire
EPT
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(thanks figq)
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