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On July 09 2010 02:42 zyvox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 02:05 Erucious wrote:On July 09 2010 02:02 zyvox wrote:On July 09 2010 01:54 dbizzle wrote: A question on the roaches not being able to go under forcefields. How does this effect any game play what so ever? If the protoss sees your army burrowed with an observer wont he just shoot at you and make you come up anyways? If he does not have an observer how will he predict forcefields to stop them from coming up anyways? Even if you use it as a retreat option, the only way I ever see this hurting zerg is if an observer is on its way and the toss is perma fielding your own ramp. its for when the roach army is engaging the protoss army and then the roaches get split by FF. you can burrow and regroup to continue the attack while the protoss doesn't have time to recover like he wanted with FF so in a sense, forcefield is overpowered? You are saying taht the protoss should be allowd to dictate the entire battle because they make sentries, but zerg arent when they upgrade their roaches? This doesnt make sense oh i was just explaining why burrowing under FF is useful. i totally agree with you that roaches should be able to move underneath.
GAWD, ITS NOT LIKE WE CAN BRING A DETECTOR WITH OUR ARMY TO SPOT THEM
Oh wait...
Yeah, as a Protoss player, its dumb.
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- Roaches can't move under Force Fields.
Roaches can move under Supply Depots that have been dropped. They can't move under Supply Depots that have been raised. Coincidence? If you can move over the terrain regularly, you can burrow move under the terrain. Ever wonder why you can't burrow move under Destructible rocks?
- No Patch Notes.
They only show the most recent Patch Notes. Over the month that passed, I'm going to bet that there were 5 or 6 Patch Notes. Are they really going to post all 5 or 6 of them? especially if they overlap? No.
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On July 09 2010 02:40 Bibdy wrote: I remember reading about a month ago on here, someone mentioned that Browder said (who's friend's cousin's former roommate who once went on a date with Kevin Bacon, said...) they were looking into PvP and the problem that you needed to match your opponent's number of gateways early in the game, or you had a massive chance of losing.
I think the Zealot nerf is a result of that, and the Reaper/Barracks build time change a result of that...did they forget about Zerg or something?
You'd think if it were just that... they wouldn't of nerfed the cooldown period for a zealot warping in though - because you dont have to match zealots anymore after that early game.
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On July 09 2010 02:48 TimeToPractice! wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 02:40 Bibdy wrote: I remember reading about a month ago on here, someone mentioned that Browder said (who's friend's cousin's former roommate who once went on a date with Kevin Bacon, said...) they were looking into PvP and the problem that you needed to match your opponent's number of gateways early in the game, or you had a massive chance of losing.
I think the Zealot nerf is a result of that, and the Reaper/Barracks build time change a result of that...did they forget about Zerg or something? You'd think if it were just that... they wouldn't of nerfed the cooldown period for a zealot warping in though - because you dont have to match zealots anymore after that early game.
Its in the period prior to Warp-Gate tech. If someone 2-Gates you, you have to build another Gateway yourself, quickly, make a choke out of the buildings and either try to match the Zealot count, get a Cannon (hah), or bee-line for Stalkers/Sentries.
The Zealot build time nerf would make it easier to get Stalkers/Sentries out before there's a critical mass number of Zealots smashing down your front door.
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So Zealots take longer to make, you can't do the re-gating thing, you can't do cool tricks with Blink any more, and you can't use Hallucinations to break enemy FFs, while the Voidray target-spam damage boost thing now works if they are charged? I guess they just really want Protoss to make Voidrays every game :/
I honestly really love the critters though. And the fact that they are actively improving the graphics is awesome.
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On July 09 2010 02:47 vica wrote: - Roaches can't move under Force Fields.
Roaches can move under Supply Depots that have been dropped. They can't move under Supply Depots that have been raised. Coincidence? If you can move over the terrain regularly, you can burrow move under the terrain. Ever wonder why you can't burrow move under Destructible rocks?
- No Patch Notes.
They only show the most recent Patch Notes. Over the month that passed, I'm going to bet that there were 5 or 6 Patch Notes. Are they really going to post all 5 or 6 of them? especially if they overlap? No. Who cares how many there are? I can understand critters not being listed but things like NP nerf or times to make a unit or building? Blink fix is significant too. I don't understand how can they not include those, I can only guess they made it too automated for themselves.
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On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote:
There have been rumors that Spawning Pools build faster now, but according to my tests, I can confirm it is still exactly 65 in-game seconds same as always.
I believe this rumor came about because people were noticing they didn't have enough gas while trying to time zergling speed upgrade for when spawning pool finishes.
Could it be that refinery now takes longer to build? I'm on EU so I cant check myself.
I mention this because people are asking where zergs early game nerf is. This could be it.
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- No Patch Notes.
They only show the most recent Patch Notes. Over the month that passed, I'm going to bet that there were 5 or 6 Patch Notes. Are they really going to post all 5 or 6 of them? especially if they overlap? No.
Of course they should. Someone at Blizzard should know exactly what has changed since the end of phase 1. The patch notes they posted are worthless.
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On July 09 2010 02:05 Erucious wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 02:02 zyvox wrote:On July 09 2010 01:54 dbizzle wrote: A question on the roaches not being able to go under forcefields. How does this effect any game play what so ever? If the protoss sees your army burrowed with an observer wont he just shoot at you and make you come up anyways? If he does not have an observer how will he predict forcefields to stop them from coming up anyways? Even if you use it as a retreat option, the only way I ever see this hurting zerg is if an observer is on its way and the toss is perma fielding your own ramp. its for when the roach army is engaging the protoss army and then the roaches get split by FF. you can burrow and regroup to continue the attack while the protoss doesn't have time to recover like he wanted with FF so in a sense, forcefield is overpowered? You are saying taht the protoss should be allowd to dictate the entire battle because they make sentries, but zerg arent when they upgrade their roaches? This doesnt make sense
A thousand times this.
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On July 09 2010 02:50 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 02:48 TimeToPractice! wrote:On July 09 2010 02:40 Bibdy wrote: I remember reading about a month ago on here, someone mentioned that Browder said (who's friend's cousin's former roommate who once went on a date with Kevin Bacon, said...) they were looking into PvP and the problem that you needed to match your opponent's number of gateways early in the game, or you had a massive chance of losing.
I think the Zealot nerf is a result of that, and the Reaper/Barracks build time change a result of that...did they forget about Zerg or something? You'd think if it were just that... they wouldn't of nerfed the cooldown period for a zealot warping in though - because you dont have to match zealots anymore after that early game. Its in the period prior to Warp-Gate tech. If someone 2-Gates you, you have to build another Gateway yourself, quickly, make a choke out of the buildings and either try to match the Zealot count, get a Cannon (hah), or bee-line for Stalkers/Sentries. The Zealot build time nerf would make it easier to get Stalkers/Sentries out before there's a critical mass number of Zealots smashing down your front door.
Right, I think that'd be some kind of justification if only the build time inside of the gateway was nerfed, but to also nerf the build time of zealots warping in from warp gates goes beyond the early-game zealot matching.
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On July 09 2010 02:57 Jokah wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 12:36 Zelniq wrote:
There have been rumors that Spawning Pools build faster now, but according to my tests, I can confirm it is still exactly 65 in-game seconds same as always.
I believe this rumor came about because people were noticing they didn't have enough gas while trying to time zergling speed upgrade for when spawning pool finishes. Could it be that refinery now takes longer to build? I'm on EU so I cant check myself.
They might have noticed it, because their 6Pools are smashing through Protoss doorways much easier now that the first Zealot shows up 5 seconds later
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On July 09 2010 02:58 TimeToPractice! wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 02:50 Bibdy wrote:On July 09 2010 02:48 TimeToPractice! wrote:On July 09 2010 02:40 Bibdy wrote: I remember reading about a month ago on here, someone mentioned that Browder said (who's friend's cousin's former roommate who once went on a date with Kevin Bacon, said...) they were looking into PvP and the problem that you needed to match your opponent's number of gateways early in the game, or you had a massive chance of losing.
I think the Zealot nerf is a result of that, and the Reaper/Barracks build time change a result of that...did they forget about Zerg or something? You'd think if it were just that... they wouldn't of nerfed the cooldown period for a zealot warping in though - because you dont have to match zealots anymore after that early game. Its in the period prior to Warp-Gate tech. If someone 2-Gates you, you have to build another Gateway yourself, quickly, make a choke out of the buildings and either try to match the Zealot count, get a Cannon (hah), or bee-line for Stalkers/Sentries. The Zealot build time nerf would make it easier to get Stalkers/Sentries out before there's a critical mass number of Zealots smashing down your front door. Right, I think that'd be some kind of justification if only the build time inside of the gateway was nerfed, but to also nerf the build time of zealots warping in from warp gates goes beyond the early-game zealot matching.
Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, its a bit heavy handed, but the general rule for Warp Gate cooldowns is the original cooldown minus 10 seconds, so you'd lose some consistency...but, you know Blizzard. They've clung to one ruleset for PvP and PvE in WoW, even though its made it a nightmare for both, just because they want consistency.
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marine shield upgrade icon has been changed the smoke in the bases of metalopolis is much larger now the shape of the smoke on scrap station was changed also, but it seems to be aesthetic rather than functional change
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On July 09 2010 02:36 TimeToPractice! wrote: If the zealot nerf stays - which by the way... Why in the world would they even do that? The two-gate pressure vs zerg was just that... pressure. Roaches totally nullify it anyway.
But it really kills my ability to hold off the mid-game timing push with marine/marauder/ghost. Marauder has a 30 second build time, what the hell? This was already a brutal timing push they pulled off, going to be even more difficult to handle now.
Blizzard doesn't make sense. The community (including the TL community) voted Terran as the most OP race, so what happens? PROTOSS NERFS. When a thread on TL was bumped asking users which race they thought was most powerful, 400 votes went to Terran while only 150 were divided between the other two.
Fucking Terran. Will Blizzard get what's going on when 60% of diamond users eventually switch to Terran? Already started to happen near the end of phase 1. This annoys me quite a bit. Numbers say terran is struggling, so naturally they get buffed. I do think Terran still has great potential, but so do zerg and protoss. If the time comes that terran starts to pull ahead of the other 2 races, I'm sure Blizzard will take actions against Terran just like they have been trying to do infavour of Terran.
The zealot nerf really surprises me. I play terran so I haven't done ZvP, but was the 2gate preassure really that harsh that zerg couldn't hold it enough to have gained macro advantage? This seems like quite a huge change, changing all MUs and timings where P is involved... The NP nerf also catches me a bit offguard, I think 12 sec is a bit to short, 15-20sec I reckon would be better time. I don't fancy reapers much and therefor normally don't proxy early reapers, so I just wonder if they were really that good that they needed a nerf... The few times I've actually done it, the stalker could come out early enough to make the harrash not worth it, depending on the micro of both players. Not done it vZ so yer dunno about that MU. The infested terran buff might become a bit interesting. That being said, I wonder if double FGing mineral line wont always be better than dropping down 6 infested terrans.
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Baneling model changed: now have more of your color (if you're blue it's more blue). ^ I think this is awesome! It looks great on my... custom low/medium setting
Ultras get +2 and +2 vs armored per upgrade, instead of +3 per upgrade. Hum... that would really leave anti-small units for zerglings and baneling.
There is now a 1 second cooldown for Transfusion from the Queen. With the Creep Tumor cooldown=doubled change, I'm starting to think I shouldn't have sent Day9 those reps lolol Oh sht! I don't mind the transfusion coolddown, but omg will IdrA rage when he discovers that he can't creep out as fast! :O double the cooldown is a major nerf for those who wants to creep really fast, though it won't change that much the overall balance. Guess we just have to get used to it :/
Neural Parasite lasts about 12-ish in-game seconds. I.. don't mind the 12 seconds duration because my infestors die anyway b4 that, but at least make it 75 energy or something, because now it just tells me that fungal growth >>> NP instead of FG > NP Roaches can no longer move under Force Fields while burrowed!!!!
burrowing roach shenanigans with FF Hum.. interesting, no more retreating for zerg, and no more sneaking through a FF... I think that'll mean more Ultra play IMO. And with the always frenzied ultras now, it's really powerful
Infested Terrans lasts 30 seconds (up from 20). Infested Terran spell can now be cast while Infestor is Burrowed. ohhh finally, this change is really something for small drops! without raven or scan, you can sneak into a tank line and spew infested terran all over.. wait have to check woot!
Overall good patch for zerg
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On July 09 2010 02:58 Orange Goblin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 02:05 Erucious wrote:On July 09 2010 02:02 zyvox wrote:On July 09 2010 01:54 dbizzle wrote: A question on the roaches not being able to go under forcefields. How does this effect any game play what so ever? If the protoss sees your army burrowed with an observer wont he just shoot at you and make you come up anyways? If he does not have an observer how will he predict forcefields to stop them from coming up anyways? Even if you use it as a retreat option, the only way I ever see this hurting zerg is if an observer is on its way and the toss is perma fielding your own ramp. its for when the roach army is engaging the protoss army and then the roaches get split by FF. you can burrow and regroup to continue the attack while the protoss doesn't have time to recover like he wanted with FF so in a sense, forcefield is overpowered? You are saying taht the protoss should be allowd to dictate the entire battle because they make sentries, but zerg arent when they upgrade their roaches? This doesnt make sense A thousand times this.
They can still dictate the battle with fungal growth though.
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Cybernetics core costs 150 minerals now? or was it always like that
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On July 09 2010 03:09 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 02:36 TimeToPractice! wrote: If the zealot nerf stays - which by the way... Why in the world would they even do that? The two-gate pressure vs zerg was just that... pressure. Roaches totally nullify it anyway.
But it really kills my ability to hold off the mid-game timing push with marine/marauder/ghost. Marauder has a 30 second build time, what the hell? This was already a brutal timing push they pulled off, going to be even more difficult to handle now.
Blizzard doesn't make sense. The community (including the TL community) voted Terran as the most OP race, so what happens? PROTOSS NERFS. When a thread on TL was bumped asking users which race they thought was most powerful, 400 votes went to Terran while only 150 were divided between the other two.
Fucking Terran. Will Blizzard get what's going on when 60% of diamond users eventually switch to Terran? Already started to happen near the end of phase 1. This annoys me quite a bit. Numbers say terran is struggling, so naturally they get buffed. I do think Terran still has great potential, but so do zerg and protoss. If the time comes that terran starts to pull ahead of the other 2 races, I'm sure Blizzard will take actions against Terran just like they have been trying to do infavour of Terran. The zealot nerf really surprises me. I play terran so I haven't done ZvP, but was the 2gate preassure really that harsh that zerg couldn't hold it enough to have gained macro advantage? This seems like quite a huge change, changing all MUs and timings where P is involved... The NP nerf also catches me a bit offguard, I think 12 sec is a bit to short, 15-20sec I reckon would be better time. I don't fancy reapers much and therefor normally don't proxy early reapers, so I just wonder if they were really that good that they needed a nerf... The few times I've actually done it, the stalker could come out early enough to make the harrash not worth it, depending on the micro of both players. Not done it vZ so yer dunno about that MU. The infested terran buff might become a bit interesting. That being said, I wonder if double FGing mineral line wont always be better than dropping down 6 infested terrans.
What numbers? I swear to god if you quote the dev chat from back in fricking APRIL I will use all of the powers of RealID to find you and punch you up the bracket.
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On July 09 2010 03:09 firebound12 wrote:Hum... that would really leave anti-small units for zerglings and baneling. Show nested quote +There is now a 1 second cooldown for Transfusion from the Queen. With the Creep Tumor cooldown=doubled change, I'm starting to think I shouldn't have sent Day9 those reps lolol Oh sht! I don't mind the transfusion coolddown, but omg will IdrA rage when he discovers that he can't creep out as fast! :O double the cooldown is a major nerf for those who wants to creep really fast, though it won't change that much the overall balance. Guess we just have to get used to it :/ Show nested quote + I.. don't mind the 12 seconds duration because my infestors die anyway b4 that, but at least make it 75 energy or something, because now it just tells me that fungal growth >>> NP instead of FG > NP Roaches can no longer move under Force Fields while burrowed!!!!
Hum.. interesting, no more retreating for zerg, and no more sneaking through a FF... I think that'll mean more Ultra play IMO. And with the always frenzied ultras now, it's really powerful Show nested quote +Infested Terrans lasts 30 seconds (up from 20). Infested Terran spell can now be cast while Infestor is Burrowed. ohhh finally, this change is really something for small drops! without raven or scan, you can sneak into a tank line and spew infested terran all over.. wait have to check woot! Overall good patch for zerg lol what? good patch for vs zerg you mean... NP nerf was unfounded, roach nerf was ridiculous, rally change screws nydus over... What was good for z? a t3 unit was slightly buffed and thats it. Infested Terran is pointless, fungal is way better, ITs will never be used competitively. Buffing ultras doesn't help out if all of the midgame stuff is bad. Oh yea, and creep tumor nerf? wtf is that...
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