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On February 06 2013 04:43 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 04:37 captainwaffles wrote:
Huh... so they'll make a ultra specific change for the widow mine vs toss but not the tank, how many times was it suggested that tanks get some kind of EMP round or buff vs shields so as to not affect other match ups?
Regardless though it is awesome to see they are still working on TvP mech, this should (if i did the math right) be able to hold 1 base blink builds a lot easier now that a stalker will die to a widow mine.
You see so much shit about why TvP mech can never work, immortals...skytoss...blah blah blah blah etc. But 1 base blink builds so fucking own mech its ridiculous, even if you don't kill the Terran you can just contain and expo like you didn't even go allin to begin with (with Terran having done a FE like reactor fact into CC or Tank expo or other various type of factory expand builds). Blizzard loves their SC2 units a lot more than those old crappy brood war units. They'll continue to buff their new units and refuse to touch the old ones. This is why we'll never see any old BW unit return to SC2 in hots or lotv
And yet all the T/Z additions are BW half-assed ripoffs :[
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How about they fix Zerg's AA problems first..... jeez I've never been so non-excited for a release ever..... barf
Plus they haven't fixed the turtling issues at all, they have made it worse if anything for all races, especially Zerg.
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I dont mind if they finally make WM viable vs Toss.So we could stop even the blink stalker push with reactor factory!!!! Thanks Dayvie and lets hope you make this change tomorrow,because time is tikinnn away...
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On February 06 2013 04:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 04:36 Seiniyta wrote:On February 06 2013 04:29 blade55555 wrote:On February 06 2013 04:22 Code wrote:On the next page he also gives his thoughts on a few other things: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6533624206?page=9#162We don't think Hydralisks are weak at all. Hydralisks are one of the most frequently used units in the beta right now.
And for Protoss air, we are definitely seeing an increased usage in all Stargate units. Some of our thoughts are:
- Tempests maybe do too much damage to non massive units for their supply cost.
- New strategies will seem more OP than not naturally because they're new and they didn't used to do as much as they do now. We think this is a good thing at this point because how else would we introduce new, powerful options if every strategy just remain as it is?
- Not a lot of players are doing the run away during Voidray is charged up micro. Makes us think even top players are still not that used to fighting against the new Voidray.
- Surprisingly a lot of players still don't know that the Voidray ability doesn't do any extra damage vs. Hydralisks nor any other light units. Also makes us think it's way too early to make a judgement in saying Voidrays are OP.
- HotS tournaments are starting up, and we'd like to really make sure how all the new strategies in HotS turn out.
We are and will definitely be paying extremely close attention to the highest level tournament games in HotS in order to really make sure a lot of the community concerns and concerns we have on our end are actual problems. lol... This is why I lost faith in their balancing team after their amazing patch 7. They really started to do some stupid changes and the bold is just lol... xD Regarding the Hydralisk, they have the data. Apparently what they see in the beta isn't what the community seems to think. Honestly, if the Hydralisk really proves to be too weak they'll buff them. It's just a numbers thing that can be done in the release game. and in pro-games I do see that people don't run away from the voidray if they charge. They just stupidly stand there most of the time still thinking they can own it whilst they can't. It's also something that can be easily tweaked. Not really worried at all. I really like the changes to the widow mine personally. That was my biggest gripe with the nerf since it became so pointless almost versus protoss. Now it's threatening again. I see hydras is almost every game against skytoss and no one runs away from voidrays, even though they are slow as trash. Its hard to tell what is broken, since everyone seems to thing everything new is terrible.
So people build the one Zerg unit that can attack air, against air, and that means the unit must be fine, since everyone is using it?
We've been at a stage of WoL for the past 8 months at least, where top Zergs have such incredibly good creep spread that it's not uncommon to see half the map covered in creep. The off-creep speed of Hydras is not the only thing that's stopping people from using them. Everyone still recognizes that Hydras are weak.
The so called buff is barely a buff. Hydras were weak on creep to begin with, making them faster off creep didn't change that.
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On February 06 2013 04:43 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 04:37 captainwaffles wrote:
Huh... so they'll make a ultra specific change for the widow mine vs toss but not the tank, how many times was it suggested that tanks get some kind of EMP round or buff vs shields so as to not affect other match ups?
Regardless though it is awesome to see they are still working on TvP mech, this should (if i did the math right) be able to hold 1 base blink builds a lot easier now that a stalker will die to a widow mine.
You see so much shit about why TvP mech can never work, immortals...skytoss...blah blah blah blah etc. But 1 base blink builds so fucking own mech its ridiculous, even if you don't kill the Terran you can just contain and expo like you didn't even go allin to begin with (with Terran having done a FE like reactor fact into CC or Tank expo or other various type of factory expand builds). Blizzard loves their SC2 units a lot more than those old crappy brood war units. They'll continue to buff their new units and refuse to touch the old ones. This is why we'll never see any old BW unit return to SC2 in hots or lotv
Really? And here i thought they were just bringing the Lurker/Spider mines/Fire bat/defiler retard cousins in. Good to see that someone thinks that these idea were original!
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On February 06 2013 05:03 rustypipe wrote:
How about they fix Zerg's AA problems first..... jeez I've never been so non-excited for a release ever..... barf
Plus they haven't fixed the turtling issues at all, they have made it worse if anything for all races, especially Zerg.
Which is the Zerg AA problem???
Vs Sky Terran you can go mass Corruptors and Mutas.BC arent so good and even Ravens wont save the T if you make some Infestors.
Vs Sky Protoss you uso Corruptors to snipe Carriers and Tempest.If they go mass Voids you can also make Hydralisks,now they are pretty fast.You can only rely on Fungals and Corruptors.Some Vipers with the Cloud can also help
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On February 06 2013 05:09 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 04:42 Plansix wrote:On February 06 2013 04:36 Seiniyta wrote:On February 06 2013 04:29 blade55555 wrote:On February 06 2013 04:22 Code wrote:On the next page he also gives his thoughts on a few other things: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6533624206?page=9#162We don't think Hydralisks are weak at all. Hydralisks are one of the most frequently used units in the beta right now.
And for Protoss air, we are definitely seeing an increased usage in all Stargate units. Some of our thoughts are:
- Tempests maybe do too much damage to non massive units for their supply cost.
- New strategies will seem more OP than not naturally because they're new and they didn't used to do as much as they do now. We think this is a good thing at this point because how else would we introduce new, powerful options if every strategy just remain as it is?
- Not a lot of players are doing the run away during Voidray is charged up micro. Makes us think even top players are still not that used to fighting against the new Voidray.
- Surprisingly a lot of players still don't know that the Voidray ability doesn't do any extra damage vs. Hydralisks nor any other light units. Also makes us think it's way too early to make a judgement in saying Voidrays are OP.
- HotS tournaments are starting up, and we'd like to really make sure how all the new strategies in HotS turn out.
We are and will definitely be paying extremely close attention to the highest level tournament games in HotS in order to really make sure a lot of the community concerns and concerns we have on our end are actual problems. lol... This is why I lost faith in their balancing team after their amazing patch 7. They really started to do some stupid changes and the bold is just lol... xD Regarding the Hydralisk, they have the data. Apparently what they see in the beta isn't what the community seems to think. Honestly, if the Hydralisk really proves to be too weak they'll buff them. It's just a numbers thing that can be done in the release game. and in pro-games I do see that people don't run away from the voidray if they charge. They just stupidly stand there most of the time still thinking they can own it whilst they can't. It's also something that can be easily tweaked. Not really worried at all. I really like the changes to the widow mine personally. That was my biggest gripe with the nerf since it became so pointless almost versus protoss. Now it's threatening again. I see hydras is almost every game against skytoss and no one runs away from voidrays, even though they are slow as trash. Its hard to tell what is broken, since everyone seems to thing everything new is terrible. So people build the one Zerg unit that can attack air, against air, and that means the unit must be fine, since everyone is using it? We've been at a stage of WoL for the past 8 months at least, where top Zergs have such incredibly good creep spread that it's not uncommon to see half the map covered in creep. The off-creep speed of Hydras is not the only thing that's stopping people from using them. Everyone still recognizes that Hydras are weak. The so called buff is barely a buff. Hydras were weak on creep to begin with, making them faster off creep didn't change that.
At the same point, just because a lot of people are whining about it on a forum does not mean the unit is broken or useless. Case and point, the marauder: whined about for nearly a year, not broken the entire time.
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On February 06 2013 05:12 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 04:43 nomyx wrote:On February 06 2013 04:37 captainwaffles wrote:
Huh... so they'll make a ultra specific change for the widow mine vs toss but not the tank, how many times was it suggested that tanks get some kind of EMP round or buff vs shields so as to not affect other match ups?
Regardless though it is awesome to see they are still working on TvP mech, this should (if i did the math right) be able to hold 1 base blink builds a lot easier now that a stalker will die to a widow mine.
You see so much shit about why TvP mech can never work, immortals...skytoss...blah blah blah blah etc. But 1 base blink builds so fucking own mech its ridiculous, even if you don't kill the Terran you can just contain and expo like you didn't even go allin to begin with (with Terran having done a FE like reactor fact into CC or Tank expo or other various type of factory expand builds). Blizzard loves their SC2 units a lot more than those old crappy brood war units. They'll continue to buff their new units and refuse to touch the old ones. This is why we'll never see any old BW unit return to SC2 in hots or lotv Really? And here i thought they were just bringing the Lurker/Spider mines/Fire bat/defiler retard cousins in. Good to see that someone thinks that these idea were original!
That's the joke...
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On February 06 2013 04:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 04:31 myRZeth wrote:
Kim Hammar @HelloSaSe
happy to see david managed to make pvp worse in hots than in wol, congrats A professional player whining about balance?!?! Cancel the release of HotS, SaSe says it is broken.
How is it a BALANCE whine when he is talking about a MIRROR match?
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- New strategies will seem more OP than not naturally because they're new and they didn't used to do as much as they do now. We think this is a good thing at this point because how else would we introduce new, powerful options if every strategy just remain as it is?
I have a hard time understanding this sentence.
First part seems to say : new strats seems OP becauses they are new.
Second part seems to say : it's ok for them to be OP so people are using them and try to answer them instead of just play the old plain Wol style (that somehow imply that they know hellbat or oracle (just example) are kinda too powerfull, but they just let them this way for now)
But it may just be that my english understanding is too poor ^_^
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On February 05 2013 21:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 20:00 DemigodcelpH wrote:On February 05 2013 19:08 Ramiz1989 wrote:On February 05 2013 18:36 DemigodcelpH wrote:On February 05 2013 18:26 Belha wrote:On February 05 2013 17:11 T.O.P. wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Uh5rFQ2.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0eJN5tT.jpg) Nobody thinks this is a problem? No. Oracle is designed to beat only ground light units AND Oracle cost much more brute cost and tech than 5 marines. If the Oracle is allowed to be that strong (beat 6 marines at the same time and live with a decent chunk of HP) then why are so many people crying for hellbat nerfs (despite mech as a whole still being bad in both matchups because of Viper and Skytoss)? This is called bias. As a random player it's pretty obvious that the Oracle seems a bit overly strong, and I think most reasonable people would agree. I have to say that I find it hilarious how you are talking about bias, when every post of yours is crying about how Terran is weak, while also saying that you are playing random. Yes, Terran should be buffed a lot and everything else should be nerfed into Oblivion, then it would be "fair" for you, I guess. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man [redacted]
What I said has nothing to do with you intentionally misrepresenting my position to support your agenda.
On February 06 2013 05:22 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 05:12 phodacbiet wrote:On February 06 2013 04:43 nomyx wrote:On February 06 2013 04:37 captainwaffles wrote:
Huh... so they'll make a ultra specific change for the widow mine vs toss but not the tank, how many times was it suggested that tanks get some kind of EMP round or buff vs shields so as to not affect other match ups?
Regardless though it is awesome to see they are still working on TvP mech, this should (if i did the math right) be able to hold 1 base blink builds a lot easier now that a stalker will die to a widow mine.
You see so much shit about why TvP mech can never work, immortals...skytoss...blah blah blah blah etc. But 1 base blink builds so fucking own mech its ridiculous, even if you don't kill the Terran you can just contain and expo like you didn't even go allin to begin with (with Terran having done a FE like reactor fact into CC or Tank expo or other various type of factory expand builds). Blizzard loves their SC2 units a lot more than those old crappy brood war units. They'll continue to buff their new units and refuse to touch the old ones. This is why we'll never see any old BW unit return to SC2 in hots or lotv Really? And here i thought they were just bringing the Lurker/Spider mines/Fire bat/defiler retard cousins in. Good to see that someone thinks that these idea were original! That's the joke...
And it's especially humorous because it's not supposed to be a joke. 
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On February 06 2013 05:33 Jotoco wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 04:33 Plansix wrote:On February 06 2013 04:31 myRZeth wrote:
Kim Hammar @HelloSaSe
happy to see david managed to make pvp worse in hots than in wol, congrats A professional player whining about balance?!?! Cancel the release of HotS, SaSe says it is broken. How is it a BALANCE whine when he is talking about a MIRROR match?
Professional players complaining about some part of SC2 is like me having coffee on the way to work. It happens every fucking day and everyone should ignore it.
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On February 06 2013 05:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 05:33 Jotoco wrote:On February 06 2013 04:33 Plansix wrote:On February 06 2013 04:31 myRZeth wrote:
Kim Hammar @HelloSaSe
happy to see david managed to make pvp worse in hots than in wol, congrats A professional player whining about balance?!?! Cancel the release of HotS, SaSe says it is broken. How is it a BALANCE whine when he is talking about a MIRROR match? Professional players complaining about some part of SC2 is like me having coffee on the way to work. It happens every fucking day and everyone should ignore it.
Aren't you bored at playing white night, defend Blizzard, complain about complaining all the time?
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Agree with the Widow Mine change, disagree with not changing hydra (or more specifically zerg AA) and void ray micro (can't run away when the beam is locked onto you for an extra 2 range, also that beam kills so fast i'm not sure how you're supposed to do that).
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http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6533624206?page=9#162
Dayvie:
We don't think Hydralisks are weak at all. Hydralisks are one of the most frequently used units in the beta right now.
And for Protoss air, we are definitely seeing an increased usage in all Stargate units. Some of our thoughts are:
- Tempests maybe do too much damage to non massive units for their supply cost.
- New strategies will seem more OP than not naturally because they're new and they didn't used to do as much as they do now. We think this is a good thing at this point because how else would we introduce new, powerful options if every strategy just remain as it is?
- Not a lot of players are doing the run away during Voidray is charged up micro. Makes us think even top players are still not that used to fighting against the new Voidray.
- Surprisingly a lot of players still don't know that the Voidray ability doesn't do any extra damage vs. Hydralisks nor any other light units. Also makes us think it's way too early to make a judgement in saying Voidrays are OP.
- HotS tournaments are starting up, and we'd like to really make sure how all the new strategies in HotS turn out.
We are and will definitely be paying extremely close attention to the highest level tournament games in HotS in order to really make sure a lot of the community concerns and concerns we have on our end are actual problems.
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On February 06 2013 05:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 05:33 Jotoco wrote:On February 06 2013 04:33 Plansix wrote:On February 06 2013 04:31 myRZeth wrote:
Kim Hammar @HelloSaSe
happy to see david managed to make pvp worse in hots than in wol, congrats A professional player whining about balance?!?! Cancel the release of HotS, SaSe says it is broken. How is it a BALANCE whine when he is talking about a MIRROR match? Professional players complaining about some part of SC2 is like me having coffee on the way to work. It happens every fucking day and everyone should ignore it.
Yep, but it is still you drinking coffee, not you having second breakfast. Just address it properly.
And on another note, Hydras should have some kind of special ability that encourages micro.
For example, I find it odd that Blizzard doesn't seem to think that the position the unit is facing is important. They could create some lore that Hydras developed some kind of hardened backs, and have +2 armor when hit in the back.
Not only it would have made then better at disengaging (a problem against Voids and protoss in general, where you lose too many units), it would present some interesting micro potential.
OR they could introduce a mechanic than because of the serpent-like movement of their bodies, Hydras are specially hard to hit when moving. Giving then +armor, damage reduction or miss chance, whatever.
Any of those two would encourage micro AND help the Hydra be better at what is expected of it.
Alternatively, a boring option would be to just give Hydras +armor Vs Air or something.
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Dammit Blizzard can you please wake up and realize that siege tanks are completely useless past one base play in TvP. That's why mech won't work. Hellbats and widow mines won't fix this fundamental problem.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
I am slightly disappointed by all these changes, Blizzard needs to realize that moving upgrades to tier 1 doesn't change anything, and doesn't help with Zerg's problems at all. It's not like Zerg players have plenthora of gas in the early game and we can spend it wherever we want. Scouting is not that big of a problem since Overlord speed was buffed a while ago. It's the fact that Zerg has to rush to Tier 2 units to stay alive from the new units that other races got. We need to rush lair for Roach speed if we want to hold the mech drop play, even just hellbats in general, we cannot spend gas on overlord speed or burrow, there's no real need for them
Speedling upgrade > Lair > +1/+1 > rest, that's usually how my gas goes regarding vT and vP MUs, and again, it still no changes regarding anti-air capabilites of Zerg. Don't even try to say Corruptor, one small mistake by clicking and your Corruptors clumping up means a free volley from Thors or a HSM in your face. They are just meh AA units, and Hydras are not good vs mass anything in air.
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The issue with Widow Mines is not their damage.The change will make them much more viable in the early-mid game till Collosi are out.The issue is their range: How can theybe usefull if every unit in the P ball outrange them mid/late game? One observer will make them visible and Collosi are going to kill them,same for Stalkers,Immortals,VoidRays,Carriers and Tempest.The Archons are the unique unit in the P Antimech composition that doenst outrange the Mine,but the moment they get in range the damage is not enough and Collosi have killed all the mines already and you have lost that supply for free.
I try a lot of composition int he Unit tester and 20 tanks+20 WMines cant beat 15 Immortlas,5 Archons and 3 Collosi with one Observer.Mines dont do any damage and die before hit anything and the siege fire is not enough to stop the P units.Mines are only Viable if P got NO Obs and Collosi,but thats almost impossible
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On February 06 2013 05:51 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 05:41 Plansix wrote:On February 06 2013 05:33 Jotoco wrote:On February 06 2013 04:33 Plansix wrote:On February 06 2013 04:31 myRZeth wrote:
Kim Hammar @HelloSaSe
happy to see david managed to make pvp worse in hots than in wol, congrats A professional player whining about balance?!?! Cancel the release of HotS, SaSe says it is broken. How is it a BALANCE whine when he is talking about a MIRROR match? Professional players complaining about some part of SC2 is like me having coffee on the way to work. It happens every fucking day and everyone should ignore it. Aren't you bored at playing white night, defend Blizzard, complain about complaining all the time?
Hardly ever. And you shouldn’t confused being postive with “white knighting”. Just because I don’t jump on every single hate-wagon against Blizzard just means I am more willing it give their changes a shot. As for tweets by pro-players, I consider them mostly to be worthless because they all whine about balance(except Grubby). Now if Artosis or Tasteless want to say something is broken, I am listening.
There are those of us out there who are very aware of how much we don’t know. Some of us even post on the internet.
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EPT
