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UnDeaDMoNKeY
United Kingdom11 Posts
Increase animation speed for viking land/takeoff Buff landed vikings widow mine only targets ground/will not auto attack workers widow mine 1 supply + slight damage increase to target unit siege tank increase single target damage or increase damge to shields upgrade hellbat attack speed nerf + can no longer be healed by medivac hellbats can no longer be loaded into medivacs (only in hellion mode) medivac speed boost upgrade from tech lab this would make mech viable imho | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:08 ysnake wrote: I am slightly disappointed by all these changes, Blizzard needs to realize that moving upgrades to tier 1 doesn't change anything, and doesn't help with Zerg's problems at all. It's not like Zerg players have plenthora of gas in the early game and we can spend it wherever we want. Scouting is not that big of a problem since Overlord speed was buffed a while ago. It's the fact that Zerg has to rush to Tier 2 units to stay alive from the new units that other races got. We need to rush lair for Roach speed if we want to hold the mech drop play, even just hellbats in general, we cannot spend gas on overlord speed or burrow, there's no real need for them Speedling upgrade > Lair > +1/+1 > rest, that's usually how my gas goes regarding vT and vP MUs, and again, it still no changes regarding anti-air capabilites of Zerg. Don't even try to say Corruptor, one small mistake by clicking and your Corruptors clumping up means a free volley from Thors or a HSM in your face. They are just meh AA units, and Hydras are not good vs mass anything in air. Actually 5 Roaches stop the Hellbat drop.The drop comes at 7 mins and all you need is a spor,Queen and 5 roaches in only one mineral line.There arent two drops coming at this timing so you can be pretty safe.You dont need Roach speed or Lair because Hellbats arent faster than roaches on creep. Hydras do pretty well vs Voids,Carriers and Tempest.Corruptors mixed with them will make you win the batle.Vs T you need lot of roaches to snipe Thors and the Corruptors can kill the Vikings,but you should mix this with at least 4-5 BLords.Their broodlings makes Thor very weak... | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
Edit: +shield damage is also interesting because it means that EMPs effectively reduce the potential mine damage indirectly. Off topic: I can't believe this thread. So many unsatisfied people. I hope you guys realise that no matter how much balance testing they do during the beta, and how close to perfect it may seem we will break the game within 3 months of it being released. Anyone who is expecting perfect (or even close to it) on release is kidding themselves. There are just too many factors and too much room for improvisation in a game like this for just a limited set of users to test out or even think of all the strong compositions. The meta game we are looking at in the beta does not represent the meta game after 6 months of actual release. Just chill out. | ||
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bobsire
Canada296 Posts
HotS is coming along nicely. The expansion is much different than WoL and also very similar at the same time. Yes it is a better game than WoL and will become even more better with time. Nothing is made perfect ,it takes time to refine and polish. Be patient and let the game develop. As of now, the path upon that Hots is travelling is a good one. Balance is becoming increasingly more accurate, where skill is the only variable that allows deviation upon the races. Practice more and stop complaining (to the people who are simply acting like whining little babies). | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:13 Plansix wrote: Hardly ever. And you shouldn’t confused being postive with “white knighting”. Just because I don’t jump on every single hate-wagon against Blizzard just means I am more willing it give their changes a shot. As for tweets by pro-players, I consider them mostly to be worthless because they all whine about balance(except Grubby). Now if Artosis or Tasteless want to say something is broken, I am listening. There are those of us out there who are very aware of how much we don’t know. Some of us even post on the internet. Why the heck would you listen to Artosis and Tasteless concerning balance? Also twitter is made for bitching about things, people should stop taking random 140 character sentences as an proper argument for things (not directed at you specifically). | ||
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Sc2Wrath
United Kingdom58 Posts
* Staying hopeful* I can't believe they want to Nerf the Infestor some more, whilst still not getting other compensation on Lair tech units. I guess I can hope Swarm host is worked out, and becomes useful.  | ||
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:17 bobsire wrote: I hate how people say that Blizzard have no idea on what they are doing. The truth is they have a much deeper understanding of the game than any of us. They have numerous professional players that test/give meaningful advice and criticism. The keyword here is 'professional' meaning these players play starcraft 2 as their main job. In addition, their balance team are all high level players (high gm). Blizzard knows exactly what they are doing. Half the people here are complaining that the changes they are making are useless/ deemed stupid, which they are certainly not. I bet half of you don't even play the game (Hots), yet if you do, your probably under diamond, where your input certainly does not contribute from real skill or experience. HotS is coming along nicely. The expansion is much different than WoL and also very similar at the same time. Yes it is a better game than WoL and will become even more better with time. Nothing is made perfect ,it takes time to refine and polish. Be patient and let the game develop. As of now, the path upon that Hots is travelling is a good one. Balance is becoming increasingly more accurate, where skill is the only variable that allows deviation upon the races. Practice more and stop complaining (to the people who are simply acting like whining little babies). that s bullshit, blizzard has no idea what they re doing, they don t have high gms and it won t get any better. the path hots is traveling on is terrible, and you claiming we/ i m not even diamond or play hots is offensive. i m a top100gm atm playing the beta since it came out. and trust me the hots ladder is pretty hard with all the good players. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
at least my T gets better and is now masters level after 2 days...lol zerg is so fucked ^^ | ||
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Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:17 bobsire wrote: I hate how people say that Blizzard have no idea on what they are doing. The truth is they have a much deeper understanding of the game than any of us. They have numerous professional players that test/give meaningful advice and criticism. The keyword here is 'professional' meaning these players play starcraft 2 as their main job. In addition, their balance team are all high level players (high gm). Blizzard knows exactly what they are doing. Half the people here are complaining that the changes they are making are useless/ deemed stupid, which they are certainly not. I bet half of you don't even play the game (Hots), yet if you do, your probably under diamond, where your input certainly does not contribute from real skill or experience. HotS is coming along nicely. The expansion is much different than WoL and also very similar at the same time. Yes it is a better game than WoL and will become even more better with time. Nothing is made perfect ,it takes time to refine and polish. Be patient and let the game develop. As of now, the path upon that Hots is travelling is a good one. Balance is becoming increasingly more accurate, where skill is the only variable that allows deviation upon the races. Practice more and stop complaining (to the people who are simply acting like whining little babies). I hope you're aware that the LEAD balance designer for HOTS is Dustin Browder. I hope you're aware that Dustin Browder is a gold/plat level terran on the NA server. That means that the person with final say on HOTS balance is a gold/plat level player. Blizzard has no clue what they are doing. Do not fool yourself. | ||
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Dirkinity
Germany409 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:15 UnDeaDMoNKeY wrote: They should: Increase animation speed for viking land/takeoff Buff landed vikings widow mine only targets ground/will not auto attack workers widow mine 1 supply + slight damage increase to target unit siege tank increase single target damage or increase damge to shields upgrade hellbat attack speed nerf + can no longer be healed by medivac hellbats can no longer be loaded into medivacs (only in hellion mode) medivac speed boost upgrade from tech lab this would make mech viable imho Nice joke. Thats would most ridiculous nerf in gaming-history. Pls stop crying and l2p your race, thanks.  | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:21 Sc2Wrath wrote: I can't believe they want to Nerf the Infestor some more, whilst still not getting other compensation on Lair tech units. I guess I can hope Swarm host is worked out, and becomes useful. Hydra and Swarm Host and Muta changes are enough mid game strength. Hydra speed might not look like much on paper, but when combined with Roaches or Swarm Hosts you have a very powerful force. It's more about the composition synergy making them viable than direct changes to the Hydra. The swarm host is useful. People are just slow to learn to use it properly. Check out blades thread and massive swarm host replay pack. As you can see from his replays the true strength of Zerg comes from using a big mix of Zerg units. I feel that many Zerg players think that if they can't mass 1-2 units and win that Zerg is broken, and hope that changes with HoTS. On February 06 2013 06:31 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote: I hope you're aware that the LEAD balance designer for HOTS is Dustin Browder. I hope you're aware that Dustin Browder is a gold/plat level terran on the NA server. That means that the person with final say on HOTS balance is a gold/plat level player. Blizzard has no clue what they are doing. Do not fool yourself. I hope you're aware than Dustin, Kim and the rest of the team base balance on the massive amounts of data they collect from us playing games. I hope you're aware that Dustin is not ashamed of his rank, and clearly does not base balance on low level play. I hope your aware that when the game goes retail the massive increase in data collected from the massive non-beta player base will be the first time Blizzard has real data to analyse to help balance the game. I hope your aware than BW and most other RTS require balancing after release for the reasons mentioned above. | ||
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bobsire
Canada296 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:22 myRZeth wrote: that s bullshit, blizzard has no idea what they re doing, they don t have high gms and it won t get any better. the path hots is traveling on is terrible, and you claiming we/ i m not even diamond or play hots is offensive. i m a top100gm atm playing the beta since it came out. and trust me the hots ladder is pretty hard with all the good players. Ladder being difficult has no relation to my argument what so ever. Blizzard knows exactly what they are doing. Being a large multi million dollar company, they have resources to fund certain activities to create and sustain competitive advantage. This could mean employing well qualified players to play the game full time who give back educational responses/reports. The list goes on if you know what I mean. | ||
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TheSwagger
United States92 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:20 nihlon wrote: Why the heck would you listen to Artosis and Tasteless concerning balance? Also twitter is made for bitching about things, people should stop taking random 140 character sentences as an proper argument for things (not directed at you specifically). Both are watch a lot of SC2 and know how the game is played. Even Tasteless, despite what people say. I am far more interested in what they have to say about balance and other issues with the game, rather than some professional player who wants to win his next big event. In general, I only listen to people who I believe are able to take objectively about the game, rather than focus on things that would make the game easier for them. Also, I agree, twitter is trash and used to whine about stuff. | ||
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bobsire
Canada296 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:31 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote: I hope you're aware that the LEAD balance designer for HOTS is Dustin Browder. I hope you're aware that Dustin Browder is a gold/plat level terran on the NA server. That means that the person with final say on HOTS balance is a gold/plat level player. Blizzard has no clue what they are doing. Do not fool yourself. I am aware of that. And I m also aware that David Kim is a high level ex professional player. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/David_Kim . The balance department is a team where as they all work together, sure Dustin is gold or whatever, but his expertise is in something else in relation to balance. If it were up to a 'gold level' player wouldn't you see actual ridiculed patches rather than an actual attempt to balance? Like I said, Blizzard knows exactly what they are doing. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:33 DeCoup wrote: Hydra and Swarm Host and Muta changes are enough mid game strength. Hydra speed might not look like much on paper, but when combined with Roaches or Swarm Hosts you have a very powerful force. It's more about the composition synergy making them viable than direct changes to the Hydra. The swarm host is useful. People are just slow to learn to use it properly. Check out blades thread and massive swarm host replay pack. As you can see from his replays the true strength of Zerg comes from using a big mix of Zerg units. I feel that many Zerg players think that if they can't mass 1-2 units and win that Zerg is broken, and hope that changes with HoTS. I hope you're aware than Dustin, Kim and the rest of the team base balance on the massive amounts of data they collect from us playing games. I hope you're aware that Dustin is not ashamed of his rank, and clearly does not base balance on low level play. I hope your aware that when the game goes retail the massive increase in data collected from the massive non-beta player base will be the first time Blizzard has real data to analyse to help balance the game. I hope your aware than BW and most other RTS require balancing after release for the reasons mentioned above. Data doesn't mean shit if you cannot assess and apply the data properly. Moreover, you're presuming that the data they are using is indicative of balance which it may or may not. I know one thing is for certain, that is the lead balance designer of the game is a gold level terran. This fact alone is enough for me to have no faith in Blizzard. Honestly, what world do you live in? It took them over a fucking year for them to remove close positions on some of their ladder maps and you think they know how to balance a game? In what world would a competent balance designer would look at close positions on shattered temple and think it was balanced, so much to the pt where it stayed on the ladder for over a year? They have done nothing but consistently fuck up matchups or not address glaring issues over and over again. Blizzard is utterly incompetent. | ||
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Valon
United States329 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:17 bobsire wrote: I hate how people say that Blizzard have no idea on what they are doing. The truth is they have a much deeper understanding of the game than any of us. They have numerous professional players that test/give meaningful advice and criticism. The keyword here is 'professional' meaning these players play starcraft 2 as their main job. In addition, their balance team are all high level players (high gm). Blizzard knows exactly what they are doing. Half the people here are complaining that the changes they are making are useless/ deemed stupid, which they are certainly not. I bet half of you don't even play the game (Hots), yet if you do, your probably under diamond, where your input certainly does not contribute from real skill or experience. HotS is coming along nicely. The expansion is much different than WoL and also very similar at the same time. Yes it is a better game than WoL and will become even more better with time. Nothing is made perfect ,it takes time to refine and polish. Be patient and let the game develop. As of now, the path upon that Hots is travelling is a good one. Balance is becoming increasingly more accurate, where skill is the only variable that allows deviation upon the races. Practice more and stop complaining (to the people who are simply acting like whining little babies). What pro are they listening to not the ones that are playing it it seems | ||
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Sc2Wrath
United Kingdom58 Posts
Hydra and Swarm Host and Muta changes are enough mid game strength. Hydra speed might not look like much on paper, but when combined with Roaches or Swarm Hosts you have a very powerful force. It's more about the composition synergy making them viable than direct changes to the Hydra. The swarm host is useful. People are just slow to learn to use it properly. Check out blades thread and massive swarm host replay pack. As you can see from his replays the true strength of Zerg comes from using a big mix of Zerg units. I feel that many Zerg players think that if they can't mass 1-2 units and win that Zerg is broken, and hope that changes with HoTS. Whilst I agree that these changes have helped the mid game somewhat, it feels very lackluster. I guess a lot of that is opinion though. I've tried the Hydralisk, and I must say I don't find it to be as bad as many say, however it isn't as strong as people would like it to be. The mutalisk is fine is also fine I believe, widow mines can be a pain, but isn't always as bad as made out to be either. The Swarm Host is another story I find. I've seen blades thread, and watched the pack. It still feels very all or nothing, credit for him to get it working, but I feel that not only could roaches trade in many situations, it is also very boring to watch, wave after wave. I try hard not to use it, as it is very boring. Not everyone may feel that way though I guess. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:31 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote: I hope you're aware that the LEAD balance designer for HOTS is Dustin Browder. I hope you're aware that Dustin Browder is a gold/plat level terran on the NA server. That means that the person with final say on HOTS balance is a gold/plat level player. Blizzard has no clue what they are doing. Do not fool yourself. And the majority of coaches for NFL football teams were not professional players. None of the referees have never played professionally in the sport they oversee. The people who build formula-1 race cars do not drive them. Judges rule on area’s of law they never practiced in every day. Every game designer for every game made currently played cannot play at the level of the most skilled armature players, let alone the professionals. | ||
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