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Canada11471 Posts
On September 13 2012 09:44 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 09:41 NicolBolas wrote:On September 13 2012 09:29 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:On September 13 2012 09:19 NicolBolas wrote:On September 13 2012 08:59 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:On September 13 2012 08:25 jinorazi wrote:On September 13 2012 07:50 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:
Oh no. Should african terrans be removed from HOTS too? Because they do not belong? Maybe we should build a minefield so they cannot cross over the borders of space.
Maybe we should save the sanctity of marriage and remove Archon made from Dark Templars. Starcraft had so many A move units and nobody gave a shit (Some of them even had developed into heavy micro depended units.). This is just another over blown opinion of somebody. If we seriously want these sensational statements to matter we should vote for Slasher to be the eSports president.
EDIT: He could have written this ever since the preview was out. The concept of Warhound never changed. All aboard the warhound bandwagon chuchuchu. the point isnt warhound but design philosophy and warhound is the prime example of whats wrong with their design philosophy. and yes, people have spoken about this topic, good game design taking ques from bw, countless fucking times, even about warhound. but the problem is they are the minority, many with bw background(who understands whats good or bad better), that just gets ignored by sc2 people saying "go play bw then" Seriously a big post about how Warhound should not be in the game at all is not about the concept of warhound? WOW. I like BW, never said anything about them playing Broodwar. Nor that it should matter., whether you do or dont. All i said that this is just a chuchuchu train. Nobody should take beta seriously, unless they work with Blizzard. Making posts like these is not relevant at all to the Beta. It is just a statement of an opinion.(And in this case yet another sensational statement.....) How is a post about units in the beta not relevant to the beta? And yes, it's "just a statement of an opinion;" that's the point! He's stating his opinion about why the Warhound is a bad unit. And while I agree that it's semi-sensationalist to disguise a "remove the Warhound" thread with the title "don't balance the Warhound", it's hardly senationalist to want it removed. As for the "chuchuchu train" (which I presume is some kind of net-speak for "bandwagoning." Wagons aren't trains), yes, he's not alone in wanting the Warhound gone. Lots of people want it gone. But "bandwagoning" is basically accusing someone of not thinking. That they're agreeing with everyone else only because those other people are saying it. That they would not have come to this belief on their own. Just because everyone is against something doesn't make it a bandwagon. Everyone hates drowning; that doesn't mean avoiding drowning is a bandwagon. It just means that we all see the downsides and would rather not do it. I posted why this is a sensational band-wagoning. Warhound did not change from the first sneak peak. Nobody gave a crap about it, except the model being a ripoff of Warhammer. People were talking about the Warhound being bad pretty much since it came to this form. Maybe not as many people; some people decided to adopt a wait-and-see approach. They waited, saw that it still wasn't good, and started complaining. That's not band-wagoning. That's being mistrustful of Theorycrafting. Futhermore, even if it is, how do you know that it's band-wagoning in this case? Did Orb ever once say that he liked the Warhound before? Did he ever once say that it was a good unit before? If not, then you don't know that it's a case of band-wagoning. No thats why it is band wagoning. Nothing changed, except the popularity of the topic. Thats the whole point. If you do not agree with it, its fine.
No, actually watching people play it makes a huge difference. Playing it makes a bigger difference and that's what has changed. For instance, I wrote a very long blog on why I felt the the warhound was going in the opposite direction of good mech play. However, because I had only seen battle reports (which are notoriously bad for macro for one thing), I had to leave a back door/caveat at the beginning saying that we were not yet in beta. That's because one needs to see how the unit handles. Particularly on the off chance they included move-shot. The design of it hasn't changed, but more people will become convinced as they see pro's trying to make it work and how it interacts with the rest of the units.,
But how do you tell the difference between a critical mass of people becoming convinced that the early arguments were correct vs band wagoning? Or would you dismiss any general consensus on a topic as bandwagoning?
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I agree completely.
Idk why Blizzard insists on making the game easier. It just baffles me.
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It's a terrible terrible unit and if it makes it to the game I will be totally crestfallen. Somehow we gotta make it clear to Blizzard that we hate it.
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It going to either be sooo powerful that it going to overlap the tank to much and the tank wont be used in TvP and TvP become a mass warhound 1-A gg. OR it will be so weak that it wont be used in TvP and TvZ because being anti mechanical, it shouldnt be as effective as it is in TvZ. This mean that it might only be useful in TvT.
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Do you realise that it is just as terrible a unit as the Roach, Marauder (and somewhat Colossus)? People are bitching about it because the Roach and Marauder are also bad...
We bitched about these units in the Wol-Beta but were probably to euphoric to finally get SC2 so nothing happened. They got balanced but still stayed the same boring units they were are and probably allways will be... At least the Roach used to have a kinda interesting concept during the Alpha but that also got scrapped...
It's just sad. The last thing we need is more of "these" units... They should have removed them/altered them massively with Hots... But instead they want to add more... Once upon a time they had the balls to do heavy changes with Addons (even Patches) like D2 classic -> Lod -> 1.10 or WC3 -> TfT... sigh...
The "problems" with HOTS are not HOTS problems, they are the same problems SC2 in general has.
Can't wait for the Protoss expansion, we probably will get a cheap Airunit that is decent against everything and solves the "Problem" with Air untis not being able to cost efficiently butrape Marines, Hydras, Thors and Turrets/Spores/Cannons...
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I went to this thread a bit skeptical, but after reading your post it's obvious that you have a strong point. But still, I've got to say that it's not just black and white as you say it is: It's obvious that from BW to SC2 the gameplay mechanics have become less complicated and more accessible. Is it a good thing or a bad thing? Well, I can't say I know the first game too well, but let me take the hotkeys as an example: in BW, if I recall correctly, the hotkeys that you were using were not displayed in the game's HUD, but in SC2 they are visible (exception made for the visual hotkeys). I personally think that this cange was a really nice touch that mantained a required skill level to be able to master the thing correctly, but still making it quite accessible to new players.
I hope they can do something similare with every little aspect of the game, I think that Blizzard has all the time that it takes to adjust the game
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I think we should just ask Dustin, "How is this unit entertaining?"
Culturally, ascetically, strategically and visually.
The war hound fails on all four counts.
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a thing that really frightens me, is that in two years of development of HOTS, they can't come up with something better than the warhound
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i think i have the solution.
Remove the warhound
Add 3 upgrades too the terran arsenal:
out of the tech lab >
electro-statically charged rounds (firendly fire removal to siege mode) 150crystal/125gas
Solid shot siege mode upgrade (increased seige tank range- reduction in splash range) 100crystal/75gas (make it possible to switch between round types with a 2x reload delay)
out of the armory > Mecha-morph Hydraulic System Upgrade (reduces morph time for all Hybrid units by 1-1.5 ingame seconds) 150crystal /125 gas.
that would terran more flexibility in mirror matches and spreads the upgrades around the terran tech tree - given that hybrid units are all mech based the armory is a natural choice to place the hybrid upgrade.
giving the addition of a 2nd ammo type for the siege tanks lends to higher difficulty in mastering said unit whilst opening up new methods and tactics for tank spread and usage
the late game addition of FF removal too siege tanks reduces the self damage load terran has on its self while the cost makes this upgrade very expensive in the early game and would probably work out in their opponents favor should it be used
The hybrid upgrade removes some of that crucial hang time that can make or break a terran army in any stage of the game, it opens up strategies with Viking Harass and helps add to the utility of battle hellions. the added bonus to this effect on siege tanks would help in reducing the long drawn out Chess game that TvT can stagnate into
Edit: Fixed formatting and some spelling
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Or just buff siegetank dmg and give it's attack a little impact time so it overkills.
Yay, i fixed the tank... It's as if this solution allready existed before i wrote it down here...
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On September 13 2012 23:35 Velr wrote:
Or just buff siegetank dmg and give it's attack a little impact time so it overkills.
Yay, i fixed the tank... It's as if this solution allready existed before i wrote it down here...
1/1/1
You can't buff siege tanks with the current iteration of marines or gateway units.
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On September 13 2012 23:32 Sergov wrote:
out of the tech lab >
electro-statically charged rounds (firendly fire removal to siege mode) 150crystal/125gas
I really like this idea.
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On September 13 2012 23:40 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 23:35 Velr wrote:
Or just buff siegetank dmg and give it's attack a little impact time so it overkills.
Yay, i fixed the tank... It's as if this solution allready existed before i wrote it down here... 1/1/1 You can't buff siege tanks with the current iteration of marines or gateway units.
You think you can't buff a unit because of a build order from WOL might become imba? Right...
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On September 13 2012 23:40 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 23:35 Velr wrote:
Or just buff siegetank dmg and give it's attack a little impact time so it overkills.
Yay, i fixed the tank... It's as if this solution allready existed before i wrote it down here... 1/1/1 You can't buff siege tanks with the current iteration of marines or gateway units.
Yeah, because Protoss is broken. So fix Protoss don't destroy Terrans signature unit.
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Maybe we shouldnt look at units cuz having 1 EZ mode unit doesnt make a damm difference in how hard the game is.
And instead we should be looking at game design.
Ow wait we are screwed in that area, nevermind ^^
Edit: I wasnt around for the beta but Im pretty sure not as many people were complaining about the collossus, exact same thing.
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I'd be OK if they decided to remove the collosus now 
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here here to the original poster. anything that is worthwhile should be difficult to accomplish.
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If Blizzard is going to stick with the warhound, then I would want to see the Thor removed and AA missiles return to the warhound. Haywire missile being remove as well would be excellent.
If it just becomes a mobile and weaker Thor after some tweaking, I can see justification in keeping it. My biggest issue with it is as orb said, it's a 1a unit but there is little to differentiate it from the Thor aside from it kills things faster and doesn't shoot up.
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I was sincerely hoping blizzard learnt their lesson from WOL and change their approach and design philosophy with the expansion. ;;
RIP SC. RIP Blizzard.
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On September 10 2012 15:46 Megabuster123 wrote:
I agree with everything you just said, but I'm like 99% sure we're all just fucked and blizzard is going to leave it in the game because they don't give a shit about anything you just said.
Thank you, exaclty what I think!
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EPT
