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This:
On October 25 2010 06:59 TedJustice wrote:
I think they were going to do the whole "3 races teaming up against the Xel Naga" thing, but are changing their minds after fan backlash.
I hope, anyway.
This:
On October 25 2010 07:09 QkDown wrote:
i want the expansions out so they can actually balance the game and remove this permanent flux we're lining up for
And especially this:
On October 25 2010 06:53 Knee_of_Justice wrote:
It might have been better for them to do 90 missions over the three "games" but instead of 30/30/30, they could have done 10/10/10, 10/10/10, 10/10/10.
Why? Allows more flexibility. Have a Zerg part where you invade, a terran part where you get the artifact, and a protoss part that details zeratuls travels and the prophecy, actually doing them justice. You could also get to meet Selendis, Artanis etc instead of just having them mentioned in passing, basically. Who was the HT that helped Zeratul? Who was the Void ray hero? It just doesnt seem good story telling: I really didnt care when any of those heroes died cause I never even "knew" them. Compare that to Fenix...
This lets you flesh out all the characters better instead of just talking to Jimmy and Tychus all the time. Kerrigan and Mengsk dont become distant villains, Zeratul and the protoss dont become virtual non-entities and you can alternate between the various critical events more smoothly (instead of introducing stupid things like the ihan crystal, and being forced to watch the Zerg on TV).
Happy to see im not alone.10/10/10 for campaign and fast expansions =,so true balancing can begin - 3 thumbs up to those ideas.
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[B]A cow level
This would be nice
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I want an April fools joke like the Terra-tron one, it will be ZERGER! Whole base morphs into a lurker "You wanted lurkers, you got lurkers!" and has 100 range with HUGE splash.
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On October 25 2010 00:21 Polydamas wrote:
I think SC2 story was made for an entirely different audience than SC BW story. Popular/teenage culture has changed a lot in all these years. Things have gotten really shallow. Prime example to me is how Raynor and Kerrigan suddenly have a romantic relationship. Did they suddenly fall in love somewhere between BW and SC2? Raynor and Kerrigan didn't even know each other during the SC storyline. Then in BW she turned zerg and Raynor said he wanted to kill her.
You have CLEARLY never played BW SP.
That, or I just got trolled.
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April fools is going to be return of reapers, with no research required for booster packs and no tech lab required for training.
Also, barracks no longer requires supply depot, and actually gives 5 supply.
And queens are light
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What did you guys expect? This is a pew pew pew good > bad story. I got a kick-ass multiplayer, an enjoyable single player, and awesome cinematics to boot. Yeah, the story wasn't all that coherent but if we stop bitching about it it'll be that much better.
Raynor ties up his past and saves Kerrigan. That's step 1.
If everyone would stop shitting on SC2 they would realize that that's not so bad of a first step. For all we know Raynor and his missions have been nothing more than a pawn making an opening move on a chess board. Mengsk might have planned for this all along with Tycus and even his son as mere feints.
In the Dominion's eyes they now hold Xel Naga artifacts and the Queen of Blades is no more. What that means for everyone else and the Zerg is unknown.
Durand plays a role in the Dominion's research for his own purposes while the Protoss are just waiting and preparing for something far greater. In a way everyone is still preparing in their own way for what is about to come.
Que part 2 as everyone except for Raynor seems to know a lot more than what they are letting on. That's why Raynor is a pawn in their plans. Raynor's fine with that though because he got to save his girl and will right every wrong one way or another.
There! That wasn't so bad was it? 
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On October 25 2010 08:21 Kimaker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 00:21 Polydamas wrote:
I think SC2 story was made for an entirely different audience than SC BW story. Popular/teenage culture has changed a lot in all these years. Things have gotten really shallow. Prime example to me is how Raynor and Kerrigan suddenly have a romantic relationship. Did they suddenly fall in love somewhere between BW and SC2? Raynor and Kerrigan didn't even know each other during the SC storyline. Then in BW she turned zerg and Raynor said he wanted to kill her.
You have CLEARLY never played BW SP. That, or I just got trolled.
They definitely knew each other.
But I see his point. Raynor made one cheeky comment about her (in his head), and suddenly they were romantically involved?
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On October 24 2010 23:30 MrLonely wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 23:25 tacrats wrote:On October 24 2010 23:21 MrLonely wrote:
Legitimate storymaking technique. Stephen King doesn't know how his stories will end either, and I consider him a pretty good writer. Stephen King is a good writer and can pull that off. If WoL was any indication (ex: magix saves kerrigan raynor carries her off into the sunset), blizz doesnt have good writers anymore. So the fact that they have no idea what they are doing is going to result in a terrible, terrible story. Might be true, but I think the story is terrible because the writers are terrible, not because they don't know how it will end. 
good argument.
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Most of US TV series don't know how it is going to end either, and that industry has survive for ages.
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On October 25 2010 09:41 TedJustice wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 08:21 Kimaker wrote:On October 25 2010 00:21 Polydamas wrote:
I think SC2 story was made for an entirely different audience than SC BW story. Popular/teenage culture has changed a lot in all these years. Things have gotten really shallow. Prime example to me is how Raynor and Kerrigan suddenly have a romantic relationship. Did they suddenly fall in love somewhere between BW and SC2? Raynor and Kerrigan didn't even know each other during the SC storyline. Then in BW she turned zerg and Raynor said he wanted to kill her.
You have CLEARLY never played BW SP. That, or I just got trolled. They definitely knew each other. But I see his point. Raynor made one cheeky comment about her (in his head), and suddenly they were romantically involved?
Exactly, lol.
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On October 25 2010 02:12 FunnelC4kes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 23:21 MrLonely wrote:
Legitimate storymaking technique. Stephen King doesn't know how his stories will end either, and I consider him a pretty good writer. That's probably why most of Steven Kings endings are crap. The best television series are developed by story-boarding the whole season. They plan the whole story arch, then go back and write individual episodes. Look at HBO's Rome, Showtime's Dexter, and The first season of Heroes (after 1st season they made it up as they went along). I sincerely hope that they do this with the expansions before they put too much effort into production, otherwise the third expo will have a really contrived story-line.
Yes, entire seasons are planned out, but the story spanning MULTIPLE seasons usually is not. As you pointed out, Heroes is a prime example of this.
So in that sense, each expansion/release of SC2 is like a season. Ever notice how so many TV shows end with unresolved story threads? It's for that reason: to keep audiences' interest and thus creating demand for more seasons.
When Chuck was in danger of being cancelled by NBC, they actually added a cliffhanger season finale on purpose, basically as a "fuck you" to NBC if they dared to cancel the show.
EDIT: Though on that note, I'm not saying that method of 'storytelling' breeds good, epic stories. But it's pretty much the norm. If you expected them to come up with the plot of all three expansions before releasing SC2, we probably wouldn't be playing SC2 until next year if not longer. Fuck that imo.
Not to mention even if they came up with a full story, it is BOUND TO CHANGE. People seem to have this notion that master storytellers just sit down and write a masterpiece on the first try. They have obviously never tried creative writing themselves to any serious degree. Writing is about ITERATION and your story/structure can change significantly through revisions.
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Bad analogies:
On October 24 2010 23:21 MrLonely wrote:
Legitimate storymaking technique. Stephen King doesn't know how his stories will end either, and I consider him a pretty good writer.
On October 24 2010 23:22 Theston wrote:
Of course they don't.
Do you think J.K. Rowling knew how her seventh book ended when she wrote the first?
Not knowing how the story will end is not the same as not knowing exactly what's going to happen in the last chapter/book/movie.
When you read the very first chapter of Harry Potter you immediately know + Show Spoiler +Voldemort is going to return and Harry's going to finish him off. the protagonists, for lack of a better word, defeating Randall Flagg
The problem here is no one can really predict how the SC story is going to end. Are they going to team up and fight the Dark Voice? Is it going to be the Xel'Naga? Or is there going to be a conflict killer hijacking when someone else takes over Kerrigan's position of leading the Swarm and then turn into the new badass main villain? Plus WoL was really, really awful at setting up the plot, not to mention alienating fans of SC-BW, that many people don't even really care anymore.
As for the mentions to current television, bad writers making up crap on the fly is exactly the difference between Lost post season 2, 24 post season 1, etc., and the likes of Firefly, Mad Men, etc. This is an advanced technique reserved for good writers, not for the 5th grade creative writing class Blizzard seems to have hired.
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On October 25 2010 10:25 Krigwin wrote:As for the mentions to current television, bad writers making up crap on the fly is exactly the difference between Lost post season 2, 24 post season 1, etc., and the likes of Firefly, Mad Men, etc. This is an advanced technique reserved for good writers, not for the 5th grade creative writing class Blizzard seems to have hired.
Like I said in my last past, it's not some 'advanced technique,' it's the way writing works. Now, yes some people are better than others. But if the story of HotS/LotV are as mediocre as WoL's, it's because of the '5th grade writing class' NOT because they didn't write the story of all 3 games from the beginning.
To be honest that would probably make things worse, as they would be trying to constrain themselves to something that should've gone through many iterations.
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I don't see why everyone thinks WoL was so horrible story wise. Sure, it was cliche and silly at instances, and somewhat predictable, but it was miles ahead of the SP of WC3 RoC. I'm not that disappointed tbh.
Also, i wouldn't look too much into the fact that they don't know how the story will end. It's not that big of a deal.
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Oh how wonderful it must be to have so much free time that you could launch a full blown campagin against a game about space marines shooting aliens! Just think of the possibilities! No friends, no girls, no family, no job, no other hobbies, no obligations, no life... Freedom!
On October 25 2010 06:59 TedJustice wrote:
I think they were going to do the whole "3 races teaming up against the Xel Naga" thing, but are changing their minds after fan backlash.
I hope, anyway.
This kind of shit can be boiled down to "I'm a concieted self important hater who knows nothing about a creative process and think that I know where the story will and should go better than the story tellers".
Man, I see people like you getting kicked out of pen and paper RPG sessions all the time, what makes you think you'll have a shot at influencing a massive developer like Blizzard?
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While I don't hate WoL's story, like you said it was cliche and silly a lot of times. It did it's job and I played through the whole thing, mostly cause of good gameplay to be honest.
On the other hand in Brood War I played through it for the story despite its shitty and boring singleplayer gameplay (with the exception of a few missions.) If WoL had the narrative of BW, I think it would be a masterpiece in gaming. Instead it's more like a pretty good summer flick.
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Initially I was disappointed with the way the Wings of Liberty campaign ended. I've found though, that if you think about it, it seems like the next two games will be forced into a more serious and interesting storyline. Here are my reasons for why:
1. The "hero rescuing the woman and riding into the sunset" cliche has happened, and its only at 1/3rd of the way through the complete story. Since this has happened, it seems likely that the overall series will have an ending that does NOT involve this kind of plot element.
2. Heart of the Swarm is (mostly) a Zerg campaign. This implies that Kerrigan will either revert to Zerg or will still have control over the swarm somehow, which could mean interesting things, possibly even bringing back Kerrigan's classic bad ass attitude and maybe even more epic betrayals than those from Brood War. To me, it seems unlikely that they would even attempt to make a StarCraft game without Kerrigan playing this role.
3. The Terran campaign is the only one focusing on humans. I'm of the belief that the only reason it was possible to make the Terran campaign cheesy in a lot of respects was due to the fact that the story was about humans. Zerg and the Protoss characters can't be anything but serious, really, if you think about it. So unless characters like Stetman are in the game still, I think it will be much more interesting. Stetman and the wrench-armed guy don't really fit in among a cast of characters such as DuGalle, Stukov, Edmund Duke, Samir Duran, Mengsk, and other StarCraft classics.
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Initially I was disappointed with the way the Wings of Liberty campaign ended. I've found though, that if you think about it, it seems like the next two games will be forced into a more serious and interesting storyline. Here are my reasons for why:
1. The "hero rescuing the woman and riding into the sunset" cliche has happened, and its only at 1/3rd of the way through the complete story. Since this has happened, it seems likely that the overall series will have an ending that does NOT involve this kind of plot element.
2. Heart of the Swarm is (mostly) a Zerg campaign. This implies that Kerrigan will either revert to Zerg or will still have control over the swarm somehow, which could mean interesting things, possibly even bringing back Kerrigan's classic bad ass attitude and maybe even more epic betrayals than those from Brood War. To me, it seems unlikely that they would even attempt to make a StarCraft game without Kerrigan playing this role.
3. The Terran campaign is the only one focusing on humans. I'm of the belief that the only reason it was possible to make the Terran campaign cheesy in a lot of respects was due to the fact that the story was about humans. Zerg and the Protoss characters can't be anything but serious, really, if you think about it. So unless characters like Stetman are in the game still, I think it will be much more interesting. Stetman and the wrench-armed guy don't really fit in among a cast of characters such as DuGalle, Stukov, Edmund Duke, Samir Duran, Mengsk, and other StarCraft classics.
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Tolkein didn't know how LotR was gonna end. He set it down for like years. I mean I'm sure he knew the ring was gonna get blown but whatever.
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EPT
