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well if you hate raynor for saving kerrigan, start thinking he only did it for zeratul, since otherwise the system they life in will collapse. I like playing mostly black and whiteish, with no grey zones, so either badass or the paladin killing everything evil from her point of view.
Raynor is more of the greyish hero, making strange allys just to save some people. He did that in SC and BW and now in sc2. Since we all knew it was about raynor we all knew how it would turn out, atleast the people who played the first games and actually listened to the story and didn't clicked start before the first person could open its mouth. (ai talked first to you /ho ).
So WoL is mostly sc bw single player fan service and imo its a good fan service, since i like it as much as i liked the sc. I mean mar sara mk2 with spreading infection defending till help arrives. Fangasm <3 oh and so much battlecruiser scenes <3.
I personally like the story and sub storys. Feels scish, while i think wow doesn't feel warcraftish, but thats prolly because they changed the story the rts game told, which i totally hate, changing the story afterwards.
PS: if you want deep storys read books :x or play DSA :p
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The WoL campaign is good compare to the quality of others at this gen, but if you compare it with BW, WoL sucks quite a bit.
But I wouldnt mind if HotS campaign turn out to be bad. I bough SC2 80% for its multiplayer, the campaign for me is just a plus. And Tychus is 90% wasnt dead, one of the voice actor kind of spoiled it when they had a panel with Day9.
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On October 25 2010 04:56 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 04:27 kojinshugi wrote:
Oh great it's the "minor retcons are tantamount to infanticide" people. Shouldn't you be on the WoW forums complaining about who corrupted Sargeras? Casting the Overmind as one of the good guys is hardly a minor retcon. The entire POINT of the Overmind was that it was supposed to be pure, consuming evil.
What?
Maybe I'm not understanding the word retcon correctly, but revealing something about a character that wasn't previously known is hardly "altering" facts previously established. We THOUGHT he was bad, and we were wrong. That isn't rewriting, that's plot development.
And how do you know what he was "supposed" to be? I didn't think the WoL story was amazing, but I thought what they revealed in terms of the Overmind being controlled and giving control of the swarm to Kerrigan was actually the most interesting part of the entire campaign.
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On October 25 2010 13:16 Sniffy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 04:56 Acritter wrote:On October 25 2010 04:27 kojinshugi wrote:
Oh great it's the "minor retcons are tantamount to infanticide" people. Shouldn't you be on the WoW forums complaining about who corrupted Sargeras? Casting the Overmind as one of the good guys is hardly a minor retcon. The entire POINT of the Overmind was that it was supposed to be pure, consuming evil. What? Maybe I'm not understanding the word retcon correctly, but revealing something about a character that wasn't previously known is hardly "altering" facts previously established. We THOUGHT he was bad, and we were wrong. That isn't rewriting, that's plot development. And how do you know what he was "supposed" to be? I didn't think the WoL story was amazing, but I thought what they revealed in terms of the Overmind being controlled and giving control of the swarm to Kerrigan was actually the most interesting part of the entire campaign.
From sclegacy.com:
The Xel'Naga, having kept a constant watch on the Overmind, were horrified to find that it had actually severed their psychic link, effectively hiding itself from their view. With its need to consume driving its minions into a lustful frenzy, the Overmind launched the now space-faring Zerg swarms at the unsuspecting Xel'Naga. The ancient race did what they could to stem the tide of the ever-advancing Zerg onslaught, but in the end their efforts were in vain. Wave after wave of Zerg swarms hammered the reinforced hulls of the Xel'Naga's ships with no signs of abatement. Within only a few hours the Zerg overran the defenses of their creators and laid waste to the Xel'Naga fleet.
Later.
OVERMIND
Arise, my daughter. Arise... Kerrigan.
KERRIGAN
By your will, father, I live to serve... Let all who oppose the Overmind feel the wrath of the Swarm.
OVERMIND
Well done, Cerebrate! What I have wrought this day shall be the undoing of my enemies! Let not a Terran survive...
The Xel'Naga controlled the overmind? Then how did he overturn them?
The overmind had no free will? Then how did he decide to overturn them and to create Kerrigan?
Further, there is no word about the Xel'Naga in the last quote.
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On October 25 2010 01:27 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Heart of the Swarm = Valerian and Raynor now turn on Arcturus, and launch a direct assault on the Dominion, using the resources under Valerian's control, and Raynor's tactician abilities.
When it becomes apparent that Raynor and Valerian will win, Arcturus pulls his ace in the hole, which is an overmind created by the Dominion, and uses that to control the Zerg and destroy Valerian/Raynor.
Obviously, this plan backfires horribly, as the Zerg can't be controlled by humans (same shit happens in the original SC) and they turn around and annihilate the Dominion.
Now Raynor and Valerian run for their lives, and seek the help of Zeratul and his allies.
Meanwhile, the Zerg are drawn by the Taldarim, obliterate them, but infest those with high psyionic potential, creating pseudo-hybrids that are not as powerful as the original ones, and then launch their assault on Valerian/Raynor/Zeratul, since they are the last true force in the known Universe able to oppose them. The story ends as the Zerg prep for the final battle.
Legacy of the Void = Raynor/Valerian/Zeratul are chilling at the running through the Sector, attempting to gather what forces they can, while avoiding the inevitable final conflict with the Zerg swarm.
They end up on some planet, and uncover a giant temple, once used by the Xel'Naga. Via artifacts and ancient scriptures with high psyionic residue, he is able to literally see the entire history of the Protoss race, from the viewpoint of the Xel'Naga.
Turns out, that the tablet wasn't actually a history, but a prediction that seems to be 100% accurate, including the final confrontation with the Zerg, Kerrigan's shenanigans, and Zeratul's last moments being with two humans.
Then, the "spirit" of a Xel'Naga prophet appears (it's just a really high-tech hologram, far beyond any technology any race possesses. It basically apologizes to Zeratul for creating the Protoss, the Zerg, and all of the pain that they put the two races through. It then tells Zeratul that the visions he saw in WoL were accurate, but also acted on his own view of reality.
Because of this, he perceived the Hybrids in a form completely different from their true form. The prophet then tells him that the Xel'Naga actually created the hybrids by combining the Zerg and Protoss and manipulating their shit, and the end result was standing with him: Oh shit, The Terran!
(should also mention here that Zeratul realizes this is the truth, due to their latent psyionic potential. The prophet tells him that the Terran haven't figured out how to "awaken their potential")
Zeratul is then faced with a decision to either annihilate his allies in the face of his own annihilation, to preemptively destroy the people who will one day end his race. or use their help, and destroy. Because Zeratul trusts Raynor, he decides to preserve the alliance yada yada. the prophet then tells him he made the right choice because the hybrids are the only perfect race and will save the universe. He then awakens a massive ancient Xel'Naga guardian armyand gives control to Kerrigan (yes I didn't forget about her.)
This whole time, Kerrigan has been recovering from her infestation, while having vivid dreams of what is yet to come. Apparently, her powers were semi awakened due to her infestation, and she is the only one able to control the Xel'Naga army. They take the Xel'Naga army, and attack the Zerg, totally annihilating what appears to be the entire race. A final battle happens, epic cinematics, and in the end, we see Zeratul leading the charge against the Zerg. they destroy the final Overmind, the bloodthirsty one created by Arcturus, the Zerg is destroyed.
In the final Cinematic, we see Zeratul peacing out in his ship, gravely wounded, and carrying something in a satchel. the whole time we hear a conversation that Zeratul had with the Overmind before killing it. The Overmind essentially begs Zeratul to save it's race, and that it wasn't their fault yada yada. the final scene, Zeratul reveals what was in the satchel, and it is a single egg of the Overmind, the last existing piece of the entire Zerg race. then it blacks out (with a little "see you in 12 years" caption for shits and giggles)
BOOM, HEADSHOT. Sorry Blizzard, I think I spoiled.
You just made my day. Just picturing Zeratul "peacing" out. Leaning back on his chair in the most relaxed position.
Also this seems pretty viable 
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 25 2010 13:33 Arby3k wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 01:27 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Heart of the Swarm = Valerian and Raynor now turn on Arcturus, and launch a direct assault on the Dominion, using the resources under Valerian's control, and Raynor's tactician abilities.
When it becomes apparent that Raynor and Valerian will win, Arcturus pulls his ace in the hole, which is an overmind created by the Dominion, and uses that to control the Zerg and destroy Valerian/Raynor.
Obviously, this plan backfires horribly, as the Zerg can't be controlled by humans (same shit happens in the original SC) and they turn around and annihilate the Dominion.
Now Raynor and Valerian run for their lives, and seek the help of Zeratul and his allies.
Meanwhile, the Zerg are drawn by the Taldarim, obliterate them, but infest those with high psyionic potential, creating pseudo-hybrids that are not as powerful as the original ones, and then launch their assault on Valerian/Raynor/Zeratul, since they are the last true force in the known Universe able to oppose them. The story ends as the Zerg prep for the final battle.
Legacy of the Void = Raynor/Valerian/Zeratul are chilling at the running through the Sector, attempting to gather what forces they can, while avoiding the inevitable final conflict with the Zerg swarm.
They end up on some planet, and uncover a giant temple, once used by the Xel'Naga. Via artifacts and ancient scriptures with high psyionic residue, he is able to literally see the entire history of the Protoss race, from the viewpoint of the Xel'Naga.
Turns out, that the tablet wasn't actually a history, but a prediction that seems to be 100% accurate, including the final confrontation with the Zerg, Kerrigan's shenanigans, and Zeratul's last moments being with two humans.
Then, the "spirit" of a Xel'Naga prophet appears (it's just a really high-tech hologram, far beyond any technology any race possesses. It basically apologizes to Zeratul for creating the Protoss, the Zerg, and all of the pain that they put the two races through. It then tells Zeratul that the visions he saw in WoL were accurate, but also acted on his own view of reality.
Because of this, he perceived the Hybrids in a form completely different from their true form. The prophet then tells him that the Xel'Naga actually created the hybrids by combining the Zerg and Protoss and manipulating their shit, and the end result was standing with him: Oh shit, The Terran!
(should also mention here that Zeratul realizes this is the truth, due to their latent psyionic potential. The prophet tells him that the Terran haven't figured out how to "awaken their potential")
Zeratul is then faced with a decision to either annihilate his allies in the face of his own annihilation, to preemptively destroy the people who will one day end his race. or use their help, and destroy. Because Zeratul trusts Raynor, he decides to preserve the alliance yada yada. the prophet then tells him he made the right choice because the hybrids are the only perfect race and will save the universe. He then awakens a massive ancient Xel'Naga guardian armyand gives control to Kerrigan (yes I didn't forget about her.)
This whole time, Kerrigan has been recovering from her infestation, while having vivid dreams of what is yet to come. Apparently, her powers were semi awakened due to her infestation, and she is the only one able to control the Xel'Naga army. They take the Xel'Naga army, and attack the Zerg, totally annihilating what appears to be the entire race. A final battle happens, epic cinematics, and in the end, we see Zeratul leading the charge against the Zerg. they destroy the final Overmind, the bloodthirsty one created by Arcturus, the Zerg is destroyed.
In the final Cinematic, we see Zeratul peacing out in his ship, gravely wounded, and carrying something in a satchel. the whole time we hear a conversation that Zeratul had with the Overmind before killing it. The Overmind essentially begs Zeratul to save it's race, and that it wasn't their fault yada yada. the final scene, Zeratul reveals what was in the satchel, and it is a single egg of the Overmind, the last existing piece of the entire Zerg race. then it blacks out (with a little "see you in 12 years" caption for shits and giggles)
BOOM, HEADSHOT. Sorry Blizzard, I think I spoiled.
You just made my day. Just picturing Zeratul "peacing" out. Leaning back on his chair in the most relaxed position. Also this seems pretty viable
A better ending would be Raynor leading the charge against the Zerg and destroys the final overmind and the last scene is Kerrigan carrying raynor into the sunset. or maybe a close-up shot of a single surviving drone that has a smirk on its face
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On October 25 2010 12:27 Caphe wrote:
The WoL campaign is good compare to the quality of others at this gen, but if you compare it with BW, WoL sucks quite a bit.
But I wouldnt mind if HotS campaign turn out to be bad. I bough SC2 80% for its multiplayer, the campaign for me is just a plus. And Tychus is 90% wasnt dead, one of the voice actor kind of spoiled it when they had a panel with Day9.
Compared to the quality of others this gen? What others? What games are we talking about here? RTS games? Dawn of War II and Chaos Rising both had better writing. Not fantastic, but serviceable. Other PC games? Even Dragon Age had better writing, and Dragon Age's writing was pretty awful. Other games of this gen period? The Witcher had better writing. Fallout New Vegas has better writing. Even Advance Wars: Days of Ruin, a cartoony turn-based strategy game for the DS, had better writing.
I understand the quality of writing in video games have gone down terribly since the Planescape Torment and Fallout days, but there is never an excuse for a game filled to the brim with action movie cliches and Michael Bay lines.
On October 25 2010 12:21 FeyFey wrote:
So WoL is mostly sc bw single player fan service and imo its a good fan service, since i like it as much as i liked the sc. I mean mar sara mk2 with spreading infection defending till help arrives. Fangasm <3 oh and so much battlecruiser scenes <3.
I personally like the story and sub storys. Feels scish, while i think wow doesn't feel warcraftish, but thats prolly because they changed the story the rts game told, which i totally hate, changing the story afterwards.
PS: if you want deep storys read books :x or play DSA :p
No, WoL is a stain on the name of Starcraft where the story is concerned.
Real fanservice to SC-BW fans would be something like this: Tychus and Raynor team up with Zeratul and find a Xel-Naga magicky device that resurrects Fenix and Tassadar, they then kill Kerrigan and Mengsk. The rest of the campaign consists of the gang drinking beer and riding around on vultures in the desert playing vulture tag.
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I don't have a date, but it's more ambitious, it's bigger than what Warcraft: The Frozen Throne was to Reign of Chaos and I don't anticipate it being done in that one year time frame."
This makes me giddy with excitement! Frozen throne introduced so much awesome to wc3, if hots is gonna be even more of an improvement...
I shudder to think of the dehydration ill experience from all the cumming ill do when they actually announce whats up
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I don't really understand all the hate on the singleplayer honestly. The storyline has to flow with the gameplay, which personally I thought they did very well. The point-click interface was simple, easy, and efficient. And I don't really understand why people are so against all the action-movie cliches. I thought it was fun.
I will say that I thought the plot in SC1 flowed much better and more tended to happen plotwise in each mission. Five pieces of artifact is a bit much.
As far as "making it up as they go," that's probably only partially true. They probably do have things they want to do, and things they aren't sure about. It probably depends heavily on how it will interact with the gameplay.
And yea, retconning the Overmind to a good guy is a retcon. It's a well handled retcon, but I would hope Blizzard would have learned something about retconning by now lol. Personally I always thought the Overmind was a good guy. He's just trying to consume all life into the all-empowering harmony of the swarm. What's wrong with that?
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Personally I think the overall story for WoL was pretty good, they only messed up the ending. Who here can say that they disliked the story before seeing that awful ending? I sure don't, I think that the story was amazing before the ending ruining it.
However I do hope they situation will be different in the future expansions. I trust Chris Metzen will make the final ending amazing.
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i think they have some sort of clue how story ends but a lot of details are not settled. i do not anticipate us getting a sequel expansion in a while though. and i'm talking 2-3 years.
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Watching the story panel, it's funny to see how offended sigaty gets at moments. I feel like he read one or two of the threads on TL and was none to pleased. Perfectly reasonable they don't know how where they are going to end this story.
edit:
Probably want to tie the units to the new expos to force the competitive players to buy the games. Hell to force people to buy it to play with their friends.
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What I don't get is how the changes to multiplayer are going to be implemented.
Will people who didn't buy HotS be stuck in a SC/BW-type situation where they're playing with only people who didn't buy HotS? When LotV comes out will there be like 6 different servers for variations of purchases? Will they just patch the units in for everyone, so buying HotS will just be for the campaign? Why wait until then to release the changes, then?
Also, I'm very curious as to how they're going to explain the new units lore-wise. Why couldn't we use X unit before?
edit: lotv not lofv
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On October 25 2010 15:29 .Aar wrote:
Also, I'm very curious as to how they're going to explain the new units lore-wise. Why couldn't we use X unit before?
edit: lotv not lofv
"The Zerg have since mutated more"
"New Terran Technology"
"Ancient lost technology of the Protoss"
Would be easy
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The story for WoL sucked, but the single player campaign doesn't. The gameplay and the story were two completely separate things, so I don't see how you can bash "the campaign" in its entirety. The game design for the single player were fantastic, even on the second playthrough, where I just skipped all the cinematics. The missions were varied and interesting.
Second of all, the story for SC and SC:BW doesn't suck at all. It's far better than WoL's, and holds its own against the storylines of most top tier sci-fi games nowadays.
SC and BW's storylines were basically political dramas about interstellar power struggles. The Terrans were all rednecks, their technology was crude, and they were the new kids on the block trying to hold their own against two new and powerful races while fighting amongst each other. All the motives behind the storylines were pretty down to earth, namely greed and conquest. BW kicked it up a notch with Kerrigan playing everyone against each other and doing some epic backstabbing. Her victory at the end of the BW campaign neatly tied all the events together. The storyline is comparable (though not as deep) to Frank Herbert's Dune.
WoL killed the SC storyline by removing all the politics, making it some kind of bogus space romance, at the same time working in every single cliche ever invented in sci-fi/fantasy. There was no more intrigue. Everyone was all about irrational honor and sacrifice.
The weakest link in the WoL storyline was probably when Kerrigan was revealed to no longer be the queen bitch of the universe. She was pretty much the biggest (and only) threat and the raison d'etre for the entire SC storyline up to that point, and Blizzard just snuffed it out in favor of some bullshit prophecy story out of the blue. That was what really killed what could potentially have been an epic climax.
How WoL's storyline should have gone: Raynor's running around fighting Zerg and Mengsk, Kerrigan's the queen bitch of the universe, and at the end of the campaign Raynor successfully takes down Mengsk, but Kerrigan grows even more powerful than before. The Xel'Naga are due to return and are potentially the only hope in taking down Kerrigan. HotS can then carry on by showing Zerg's perspective during the same time period, with Kerrigan roflstomping Protoss and Terran in half the missions and in the other half she can be battling protoss/zerg hybrid and trying to figure out how much of a threat the Xel'Naga are to her.
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SPOILERS IN THIS POST
I still can't beleive they did what they did at the end of this game- why not wait until the end of the third chapter?
The new bad guy is poorly fleshed out, romance is now... well kaput because - how boring, it's actually going to occur. She was the best bad guy in a long time in a game and they neutered her in round 1? what? I'm overall surprised.
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They don't have the whole story, they do however know pretty much what they want to do happen.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
WoL Kerrigan is an affront to Kerrigans all across the world. From a manipulative bitch she turned to a "I will kill everyone because I am evil" generic kind of villain. She completely lost her character. Then Raynor who swore to murder her suddenly enjoys carrying her naked in the sunset. Not that I wouldn't enjoy carrying a naked prettie, but that hardly makes sense when she just killed everyone you ever loved.
Actually, I don't understand why that happened, Kerrigan repeatedly scored as the most charismatic female character in games, if anything, Blizzard should have dropped all other character's personalities, but not her. Dumbing her down was the most stupid decision to take since she was kinda iconic. The same thing about resurrecting Tassadar (WTF, he died a glorious death, I WANT HIM TO STAY DEAD BLIZZARD). Next watch Fenix being resurrected along with DuGalle and Stukov. Oh and Aldaris too, I loved the fucker's voice acting. And last, but not least, enjoy the return of the not-so-brave-but-fucking-awesome General Edmund Duke.
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On October 24 2010 23:34 tacrats wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2010 23:31 Mothxal wrote:On October 24 2010 23:25 tacrats wrote:On October 24 2010 23:21 MrLonely wrote:
Legitimate storymaking technique. Stephen King doesn't know how his stories will end either, and I consider him a pretty good writer. Stephen King is a good writer and can pull that off. If WoL was any indication (ex: magix saves kerrigan raynor carries her off into the sunset), blizz doesnt have good writers anymore. So the fact that they have no idea what they are doing is going to result in a terrible, terrible story. Just because you disliked the single-player, don't pretend the rest of the world agrees. Hardly any writers know how a story will end. In fact, knowing often makes for a worse story, since then the story can be somewhat artificial and drawn out, since the pacing might not be accounted for in the original idea. any self-respecting individual would agree sc2 SP sucked. User was warned for this post
I enjoyed the Wings of Liberty singleplayer and i trust Blizzard will create a good story for the two expansions, i don't know what people have against the Single Player-campaign but it was entertaining in my opinion. Of course there was a couple of bad parts but the game can't be 100% perfect.
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