EPTAlso saying other past greats profited from more open space back in the day, messi also profited from being in Barcelona. No one knows what would have happened if he had been in a team like liverpool his whole career like steven gerrard was (not saying that gerrard is as good as messi, just that he could have accomplished so much more in a different environment)
2022 - 2023 Football Thread - Page 44
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sharkie
Austria18571 Posts
Also saying other past greats profited from more open space back in the day, messi also profited from being in Barcelona. No one knows what would have happened if he had been in a team like liverpool his whole career like steven gerrard was (not saying that gerrard is as good as messi, just that he could have accomplished so much more in a different environment) | ||
Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4514 Posts
But r9 was a one man team able to run and dribble past 10 defenders and score a goal He combined messi's technical ability with strenght, equally good with both feet, insane acceleration, pace, i've never been as impressed by messi and i've been by r9, and what he was able to do at the height of his powers. Even 2008-2014 messi never came anywhere close to being that much of a force on the pitch. ronaldo at 21 in the semi final of the world cup before that weird incident where he collapsed. Jaap Stam, Frank de Boer and Edgar Davids running him down and making some ugly tackles that in messi's era would surely be red cards. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16025 Posts
On November 05 2022 20:23 Liquid`Ret wrote: Look, messi is great. But r9 was a one man team able to run and dribble past 10 defenders and score a goal He combined messi's technical ability with strenght, equally good with both feet, insane acceleration, pace, i've never been as impressed by messi and i've been by r9, and what he was able to do at the height of his powers. Even 2008-2014 messi never came anywhere close to being that much of a force on the pitch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uomBpHwl-Tk ronaldo at 21 in the semi final of the world cup before that weird incident where he collapsed. Jaap Stam, Frank de Boer and Edgar Davids running him down and making some ugly tackles that in messi's era would surely be red cards. different player types, Messi can also do many things Ronaldo couldn't like passing / playmaking. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On November 05 2022 17:19 Acrofales wrote: I'd say Bergkamp was actually quite similar to Messi, both in style (little accelerations to get pas opponents, an amazing first touch and an uncanny ability to read the game) and in how he'd sometimes just score an impossible goal out of absolutely nowhere to win his team the match. Of course, Bergkamp was nowhere near as consistent as Messi. He was injured a lot, and with a fear of flying often had to miss important matches. But if we are just considering playstyle, you could pair him with Bergkamp in a similar way to those groupings you made there. That amazing flick-turn goal against Newcastle will always be imprinted in my memory. My friends and I would keep hitting the replay button trying to puzzle over the move like a magic trick. Just utter brilliance... | ||
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Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4514 Posts
On November 05 2022 21:04 Charoisaur wrote: different player types, Messi can also do many things Ronaldo couldn't like passing / playmaking. That's false, he can do those too. It's just too bad it was like 10 years before video quality started to be proper. Or everyone would know it :D | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
If the benchmark of a football legend is a player who single-handedly performs match-winning or saving acts, then we are just left with deciding between goalkeepers, solo dribblers, and free-kick and penalty-takers. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On November 05 2022 20:23 Liquid`Ret wrote: Look, messi is great. But r9 was a one man team able to run and dribble past 10 defenders and score a goal He combined messi's technical ability with strenght, equally good with both feet, insane acceleration, pace, i've never been as impressed by messi and i've been by r9, and what he was able to do at the height of his powers. Even 2008-2014 messi never came anywhere close to being that much of a force on the pitch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uomBpHwl-Tk ronaldo at 21 in the semi final of the world cup before that weird incident where he collapsed. Jaap Stam, Frank de Boer and Edgar Davids running him down and making some ugly tackles that in messi's era would surely be red cards. Ronaldo was a machine, it’s always been a bit sad to me that we have the ‘which Ronaldo?’ conversation come up. As great as Cristiano Ronaldo is as well. I think she comes into it, we had less exposure to football, we were younger. The world was more novel. Ronaldo in peak flow I mean, wow. Amazing, really this whole new species of centre forward. Il Fenomeno! Messi I’ve watched, hundreds of his games probably over 15 years and even now I still get a reliable ‘wow’ moment on the regular. He’s the best dribbler I’ve ever seen, and I doubt there’ll be much dispute there, but in a strange way he’s so good people underrate him. He’s basically as good a pure playmaker as even an archetypal, old-school number 10 like Juan Roman Riquelme, one of my all-time favourite players. He’s not quite up there with a real set-piece specialist like a Juninho, or a James-Ward Prowse, but he’s not far off. If he never had that burst of acceleration that made him so deadly running with the ball, La Masia could easily have just moulded him into being a Xavi/Pirlo Regista type player. Ronaldo was truly amazing but, knee injuries turned him from Il Fenomeno into merely Ronaldo. Ronaldinho of all the players I’ve watched had the technical ability, that magic (and sometimes more so, in terms of improvisation), he only played at peak Messi level for a few years. On the Cristiano comparison, for me he turned into a functional player, but the Man United/early Real Madrid player had that magic too. What kept him in the debate was his absurd numbers, but also his undeniable clutch factor in seizing those moments of glory on the biggest of stages. You take away real jeopardy, and those stakes and where’s the appeal? Stripping down into the arch-predator, leaping about 7 feet off the ground and scoring a bicycle kick in a Champion’s League semi final, awe-inspiring stuff. Ronaldo playing in MLS or somewhere else I mean, he’s shorn of the stage that made those moments meaningful, when he metamorphosed from a thrilling all-action attacking player into a deluxe (very deluxe) Filippo Inzaghi. Zlatan was fun to watch in MLS because he did unorthodox things and score some incredible goals. Messi I mean, the magic isn’t where on when he’s doing it, but what he can do with a football at his feet, even now. So I think it would be worth watching him pottering around on that lower stage. I’m really torn given I fucking hate the PSG project but I do want to see him live before I miss the chance. There’s really no other current player I’d arrange a city break to go watch a team I don’t support just to catch a glimpse | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
If the striker dribbles past 9-10 outfield players in the first minute right from kickoff, then yeah that's magical GOAT material. But that only ever happens in FIFA... | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16025 Posts
On November 05 2022 22:23 RKC wrote: Also, a solo dribbling goal is usually a product of teammates making runs pulling defenders out of position or happens late in the game where the defenders are tired and lose focus because of teammates probing and pushing whole game. There's really no such thing as a pure solo goal effort. If the striker dribbles past 9-10 outfield players in the first minute right from kickoff, then yeah that's magical GOAT material. But that only ever happens in FIFA... Messi vs Real Madrid in UCL semi-finals? There was no run from other players, they just watched Messi doing his thing | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9768 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On November 05 2022 23:07 Charoisaur wrote: Messi vs Real Madrid in UCL semi-finals? There was no run from other players, they just watched Messi doing his thing Busquets with probably the least ‘assisty’ assist in football history | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28736 Posts
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Bacillus
Finland2012 Posts
On November 06 2022 00:36 Liquid`Drone wrote: City-Fulham unexpectedly turning exciting, with City being reduced to 10 players and Fulham scoring penalty. Cancelo missing some games is a pretty big deal too, not that City really ever is going to rely on one player alone. | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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gTank
Austria2601 Posts
On November 06 2022 08:11 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Well MLS Cup Final was insane, so much so that I would challenge any European league to match it in the past decade or more. Keeper breaks leg, late over time goals. Bale saves the day. Goes to penalties. I have not seen it but if you like penalties -> euro league final Villarreal vs Manchester United. | ||
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DropBear
Australia4388 Posts
On November 06 2022 08:11 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Well MLS Cup Final was insane, so much so that I would challenge any European league to match it in the past decade or more. Keeper breaks leg, late over time goals. Bale saves the day. Goes to penalties. I just watched the highlights, definitely worth a look. The one thing that I didn't like was that the stadium sponsor was Banc of California. Is that really how you spell bank over there?  | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Kudos to teams like Forest and Leeds for their fighting spirit. Really hoping for anti-football teams like Everton and Fulham to get the drop instead. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28736 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4237 Posts
On November 05 2022 19:20 sharkie wrote: Messi creating chances in a walking pace is a credit to his teammates and not himself... sometimes fandom doesnt know any limits.. Also saying other past greats profited from more open space back in the day, messi also profited from being in Barcelona. No one knows what would have happened if he had been in a team like liverpool his whole career like steven gerrard was (not saying that gerrard is as good as messi, just that he could have accomplished so much more in a different environment) Not really. Messi creating chances at walking pace means either the opposition is terrible that he doesnt have to run OR that he is still a magnitude above them despite them not being bad. So if we factor in that not everyone is doing the same, we have to conclude that option 1 is really not correct, otherwise it would be common occurance. So that leaves you with option 2 just like myself and a few others mentioned. Watch some PSG games and then watch some barcelona games as well. You will be surprised how a walking pace Messi would improve them instantly. | ||
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