EPTMostly agreed otherwise, with the small caveat that the reason many have considered Maradona the greatest is that he won titles with teams that couldn't have done it without him.
2022 - 2023 Football Thread - Page 43
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28736 Posts
Mostly agreed otherwise, with the small caveat that the reason many have considered Maradona the greatest is that he won titles with teams that couldn't have done it without him. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Then again, I've only watched his highlight reels. I didn't watch most of his games for Argentina and Napoli. Hence I can't personally verify how good he really was and can only rely on hearsay. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18571 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7040 Posts
On November 02 2022 22:32 RKC wrote: Between the two, I'm certainly more curious as to Messi's next destination. Honestly don't give a s**t about Ronaldo. Messi is someone I'll still pay to watch even if he's playing in some special senior league. Same as players like Zidane or Zlatan. Ronaldo? Meh... Many other players can do what he does (but he's special because he does it more consistently than others). Messi is a once-in-a-generation player. A true Messiah. Basically Haaland already does what CR7 does/ did. Maybe even better. We'll see. Messi is just ridiculous. Can't even be mad when he scores against your team. Liverpool does need some fresh wind. They look kinda tired in their league games. Maybe the World Cup does revitalise them, who knows. A lot depends on Kloppo and his mindset, too. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8793 Posts
haaland is probably more comparable to lewandowski at the moment. | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
That said, Messi isn't really so much playing in a league above others. More like playing on a different dimension altogether. No one else can quite do what he does. And because he's in a different dimension, it's hard to even measure how much better he is than other players on a linear scale. He's just... different. Few players can reach to this multi-dimensional state. Right now, I can only think of players like de Bruyne, Modric, or even Kante. I felt Pogba has that potential quality too - alas, he went wayward along the way. And looking slightly further back, there are players like Xavi, Iniesta, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Pirlo... | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28736 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8793 Posts
On November 04 2022 23:48 RKC wrote: Few players can reach to this multi-dimensional state. Right now, I can only think of players like de Bruyne, Modric, or even Kante. I felt Pogba has that potential quality too - alas, he went wayward along the way. And looking slightly further back, there are players like Xavi, Iniesta, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Pirlo... i cant really agree with this part. messi is the only player i can think of that is genuinely unique in his style and ability. every other player on the planet plays in a similar fashion to many others. de bruyne, modric, xavi and pirlo and all of a similar mould. you could probably pair them up as de bruyne/modric and xavi/pirlo, but generally id say they were all similar; just distinguished by the tactics of the era they played in. kante had players like makelele before him. heck, even park was effective at what kante does, and park did it from a completely different position. bernardo silva strikes me as a player very similar to iniesta. i felt that isco for a time was quite like iniesta too. cant really comment on zidane and ronaldinho because tbh i think they benefited a lot from playing in a time when there was so much space on the field. also ronaldinho wasnt as unique as messi because r9 was kind of doing the same thing for a while. and whilst i admit that i havent watched maradona play, from what ive seen of him id wager that he also benefitted from the huge spaces on the field in his day. | ||
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DropBear
Australia4388 Posts
I don't remember ever seeing a group finish that equal before in any sport, let alone football | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28736 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4237 Posts
On November 04 2022 23:48 RKC wrote: Few players can reach to this multi-dimensional state. Right now, I can only think of players like de Bruyne, Modric, or even Kante. I felt Pogba has that potential quality too - alas, he went wayward along the way. And looking slightly further back, there are players like Xavi, Iniesta, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Pirlo... The way I see it, those players are/were amazing at what they do, but none of them will ever be Messi like. The closest you could get was ronaldinho and, while briliant, he had nowhere near the consistency and therefore the numbers that Messi had for so long. Also Messi's qualities allow him to still be effective in PSG, barely running and no longer making use of his trademark acceleration. He plays mostly walking these days but still manages to be one step ahead most of the time due to how he reads the game and sees the play before others. That together with his passing, as he can pass the ball like the best out there, still make him a threat and the focus for most of PSG's opponents. His long shots are also not something to ignore. Messi is a legend and will be remembered as such hopefuly. Ronaldo will also be named in conversations for years to come just for the sheer number of goals and mostly for being responsible for the feat of getting several awards during Messi's tenure. But this was and still is Messi's tenure. The rest are supporting cast. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28736 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6261 Posts
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Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4514 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9768 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
On November 05 2022 09:05 Liquid`Ret wrote: R9 is the best player I've ever seen play in my lifetime. 1995-1999.And it's not really close. The original Ronaldo from Brazil? Yes, I actually rate him higher than CR7. Peak R9 is just as unstoppable as Messi. But CR7 has the slight edge in terms of consistency (but to be fair, R9's career was blighted by injuries). So yeah, I think R9 v CR7 makes a more like-for-like debate. Messi is still on a different dimension like Maradona or Pele. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On November 05 2022 04:37 KobraKay wrote: The way I see it, those players are/were amazing at what they do, but none of them will ever be Messi like. The closest you could get was ronaldinho and, while briliant, he had nowhere near the consistency and therefore the numbers that Messi had for so long. Also Messi's qualities allow him to still be effective in PSG, barely running and no longer making use of his trademark acceleration. He plays mostly walking these days but still manages to be one step ahead most of the time due to how he reads the game and sees the play before others. That together with his passing, as he can pass the ball like the best out there, still make him a threat and the focus for most of PSG's opponents. His long shots are also not something to ignore. Messi is a legend and will be remembered as such hopefuly. Ronaldo will also be named in conversations for years to come just for the sheer number of goals and mostly for being responsible for the feat of getting several awards during Messi's tenure. But this was and still is Messi's tenure. The rest are supporting cast. Totally agree. Messi's football intelligence is on a different IQ level. His positioning and vision allows him to create chances at a walking pace while other players run around so much more but create less. It's a really shame that Argentina lost out in WC2014. Messi was pulling all the strings. If only his other teammates like Higuain had stepped up a little bit more and converted the chances... | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18199 Posts
On November 05 2022 00:29 evilfatsh1t wrote: i cant really agree with this part. messi is the only player i can think of that is genuinely unique in his style and ability. every other player on the planet plays in a similar fashion to many others. de bruyne, modric, xavi and pirlo and all of a similar mould. you could probably pair them up as de bruyne/modric and xavi/pirlo, but generally id say they were all similar; just distinguished by the tactics of the era they played in. kante had players like makelele before him. heck, even park was effective at what kante does, and park did it from a completely different position. bernardo silva strikes me as a player very similar to iniesta. i felt that isco for a time was quite like iniesta too. cant really comment on zidane and ronaldinho because tbh i think they benefited a lot from playing in a time when there was so much space on the field. also ronaldinho wasnt as unique as messi because r9 was kind of doing the same thing for a while. and whilst i admit that i havent watched maradona play, from what ive seen of him id wager that he also benefitted from the huge spaces on the field in his day. I'd say Bergkamp was actually quite similar to Messi, both in style (little accelerations to get pas opponents, an amazing first touch and an uncanny ability to read the game) and in how he'd sometimes just score an impossible goal out of absolutely nowhere to win his team the match. Of course, Bergkamp was nowhere near as consistent as Messi. He was injured a lot, and with a fear of flying often had to miss important matches. But if we are just considering playstyle, you could pair him with Bergkamp in a similar way to those groupings you made there. | ||
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