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On February 16 2015 08:38 JimmiC wrote:
I'm not so sure on Kessel. Sure he scores but he's huge money and long term, if they keep 2 mill of his salary per year sure they could get good value. But he's totally one dimensional, awful in his own zone and paid like a top 10 player.
he is top 10 at the only skill you can't teach.
Coach him well, make sure he hits the gym seriously in the off season and he is a legit 50 goal threat.
the environment in Toronto looks so bad, it seems even Toews would fail there.
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Kessel + any team above 22nd place in the NHL and he'd put points up at a rate higher then he ever has as a Leaf.
The only reason Toronto has not been a high lottery team every year is well above average goaltending, above average shooting percentages and Kessel getting 80 points playing with 3rd liners. Very recently the leafs have regresed to how they should look and as you can tell, it aint pretty
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Kessel is a lock for 30g/70pts at least every year and he's 27. This isn't like gambling on an overrated asshole like Evander Kane, who hasn't actually done shit in almost 4 years. Kessel is a bona fide elite forward with a great shot, good vision, and good speed, and it is entirely reasonable to expect that he maintains that for at least 5 more years.
8m per year is totally reasonable given that he's been a ppg player or just below for 4 years running. And he's done that on a dog shit team with a scrub like Bozak centering him for most of the time. The only way they should be eating any of his salary is if some team is giving them the goddamn moon in a trade. He's 7th for total points in the last 3 years http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seasons/last-3-nhl-seasons-players-stats.html. Three zone players are nice obviously, but a pure goal scorer is still insanely valuable because there are so few. There are plenty of cheaper dudes who can play a two way game.
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also that's a fuckin killer trade for Nashville. They gave up shit (Jokinen is garbage at this point, the prospect was a marginal nhler, and the 1st is most likely 25th a best so it isn't much.
In return they got two of the most coveted trade deadline people. Santorelli is pretty much perfect for a 3rd liner, and Franson is a top 4 dman. That's huge for a team that was already looking pretty great.
Also on that note, the preds had all that success early on with a total dogshit pp. Sicne like December or so, they've been a top 5 unit. And they gave up little and got very quality depth players here. Seriously killer trade by nashville
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I'm not sure why Kessel being out of shape keeps getting tossed around even though he has being ppg or close to it for 4 years now, and he's easily one of the best skaters. His doughy retard faces inspires so much hate
Again, he's 27, and a lock for at least 30g/70pts for at least like 4-5 years. He's been around or better than a ppg for 4 years, and in the last 3 years he is 7th for total points scored, bumping shoulder with the likes of Sid and Ovechkin.
This is some bizzaro world. Usually Toronto fans overhype scrub ass 3rd liners who they think will return 2 firsts and a prospect. Now somehow their elite goalscorer is being undervalued by everyone. It's insane. It's so plainly clear that he is a great goalscorer trapped on an awful team that was coached by a shit coach with a shit system.
also about teams not being able to afford a goal scorer at that rate, there are plenty of teams that pay for that high end talent and surround him with more affordable home grown players on cheaper early deals, or godo but less expensive fas.
Toronto has just been awful at everything for the better part of the last decade. That does not mean that you could not build around Kessel. Most teams have an elite forward at the 7-8m mark.
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On February 18 2015 02:58 JimmiC wrote:
There is more to being a WINNING hockey player then points and goals. Not saying he isn't talented and he won't score goals where ever he goes. I'm saying that I would way rather have Bergeron then Kessel, even though Kessel puts up way more goals and Bergeron is 1.5 mill a year cheaper.
Also Florida allready has said they want Kessel but not willing to give up Barkov, Huber, or Ekblad. If Kessel was really a top 10 player or even top 20 player which is what he is getting paid like of course a team like florida would be willing to give up Huber.
Like I said earlier if T.O. Keeps some salary that will change his value big time but in the Cap ear you expect a lot for 8 mill per not just Goals.
Huberdeau has the potential to become Kessel. Maybe better. Ekblad is going to be a top 5 defenseman in the NHL sometime as well. These two kids are lynchpins in a rebuild that is slowing starting to bear fruit. Not giving them up is smart unless the return is like Crosby or some other impossible to acquire player
Put Kessel on a better team, you'll stop talking about his "lack of defense" It won't even be a consideration. You'll be too focused on the 40G/50A season.
Everyone would love to have 12 Bergerons on their team( and that team would go undefeated year in and year out), or even 1 but that guy is a VERY special and unique player with a skillset no one else in the world has. Comparing Kessel to him is like comparing Kessels apple to Bergerons fruit smoothie. NHL doesn't have alot of fruit smoothie players and the ones they do have are highly coveted and somehow underpaid
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Where is this magical 40 G going to come from? Kessel already gets good starts, PP ice time, etc. The only thing that might change is his +/- changes upward because he wont play with shitty d-men. In fact his points might decline because a good team will already have a set top line and Kessel will be forced into play a full ice sheet of hockey.
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On February 18 2015 03:21 Sub40APM wrote:
Where is this magical 40 G going to come from? Kessel already gets good starts, PP ice time, etc. The only thing that might change is his +/- changes upward because he wont play with shitty d-men. In fact his points might decline because a good team will already have a set top line and Kessel will be forced into play a full ice sheet of hockey.
Last year Kessel got 37 goals on a fucking brutal Leafs team. Your telling me its hard to imagine him getting 3 extra goals playing with a better one?
Also looking at last year and saw this hilarious tidbit! Ovechkin 78GP 51G 28A 79P -35. That +/- is good for 884/886 in the NHL last year :p
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On February 18 2015 02:58 JimmiC wrote:
There is more to being a WINNING hockey player then points and goals. Not saying he isn't talented and he won't score goals where ever he goes. I'm saying that I would way rather have Bergeron then Kessel, even though Kessel puts up way more goals and Bergeron is 1.5 mill a year cheaper.
Also Florida allready has said they want Kessel but not willing to give up Barkov, Huber, or Ekblad. If Kessel was really a top 10 player or even top 20 player which is what he is getting paid like of course a team like florida would be willing to give up Huber.
Like I said earlier if T.O. Keeps some salary that will change his value big time but in the Cap ear you expect a lot for 8 mill per not just Goals.
Those are all blue chip prospects. Barkov and Ekblad alone have genuine potential to be stars, and Huberdeau isn't a slouch either. They don't move unless it's a big time deal, and if the team giving up players in question is on the cusp of the CUp. Florida is not.
No team is going to trade an elite prospect and the cost certainty that comes with that unless the guy(s) they are getting will put them over the top. RFA status lasting for long is massive, esp for a small money club in a rebuild like Florida. If they hang onto those guys and they pan out like Chicago, Pitt, etc did with their young prospects, they will be in a position to have a good team that can be made better through FAs becaue of the money they saved by building on prospects and not UFAs.
Forget projecting Kessel's stats (even though I do think they will be better when he doesn't have to drag around Bozak and Lupul). As of right now he is a 30G lock who will put up 70-80pts a year. That already puts him into elite territory without even sniffing 50 goals.
That's worth a lot but you aren't going to get elite prospects off of a rebuilding team like that
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On February 18 2015 03:26 Orcasgt24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 03:21 Sub40APM wrote:
Where is this magical 40 G going to come from? Kessel already gets good starts, PP ice time, etc. The only thing that might change is his +/- changes upward because he wont play with shitty d-men. In fact his points might decline because a good team will already have a set top line and Kessel will be forced into play a full ice sheet of hockey. Last year Kessel got 37 goals on a fucking brutal Leafs team. Your telling me its hard to imagine him getting 3 extra goals playing with a better one? Also looking at last year and saw this hilarious tidbit! Ovechkin 78GP 51G 28A 79P -35. That +/- is good for 884/886 in the NHL last year :p
Yes, because he is literally the only one scoring there. You want to compare sniper level players on brutal teams compare him to Kovelchuk once he left the Thrashers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Kovalchuk
For the lazy, Kovelchuk drops almost 15 goals once he is a Devil.
On a better team there will be (a) less good match ups (b) more defensive responsible.
Thats it.
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On February 18 2015 03:30 JimmiC wrote:
What they will be able to get is something similar or less then what Bos got for Seguin.
I dont think that parallel works. Seguin went from being a 3rd liner to being a first line. He gets to center Benn. He plays in an attack first team. In that switch literally everything favored Seguin to be a good player -- just look at Louie Erickson squeezing out all those 70 point seasons in Dallas.
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if anything he'd probably get more favorable deployment since a good team will have a better supporting cast, which means defenses can't key in on him as much as they could in TO. Plus he won't be stuck in a horrid system that forces Kessel to start in his own end more often than not.
Realistically, the biggest change is going to be his TOI, which probably goes down since he'd probably go to a club that can roll 4 good lines. He's still going to get easy 1st line minutes no matter where he goes. I still can't imagine him falling off of 30g/70+pts
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On February 18 2015 06:45 QuanticHawk wrote:
if anything he'd probably get more favorable deployment since a good team will have a better supporting cast, which means defenses can't key in on him as much as they could in TO. Plus he won't be stuck in a horrid system that forces Kessel to start in his own end more often than not.
Realistically, the biggest change is going to be his TOI, which probably goes down since he'd probably go to a club that can roll 4 good lines. He's still going to get easy 1st line minutes no matter where he goes. I still can't imagine him falling off of 30g/70+pts
Kovelchuk got better line mates, his numbers went down. Good teams play all parts of the ice, they cant afford to just have a forward floating at center ice bulking up his personal stats.
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Watching the Capitals for like 2-3 games tells you all you need to know about why Ovech has such an awful +/-. He doesn't try to play defense. His trips into his own end result in him wanting to push the puck up more then he wants to go after the puck. Imagine playing 4v5 in your own zone when your best line is on the ice.
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On February 18 2015 12:29 Zdrastochye wrote:
Watching the Capitals for like 2-3 games tells you all you need to know about why Ovech has such an awful +/-. He doesn't try to play defense. His trips into his own end result in him wanting to push the puck up more then he wants to go after the puck. Imagine playing 4v5 in your own zone when your best line is on the ice.
Yet he still has a higher +/- this year then Crosby, Patrick Kane, Voracek, Seguin, Tavares, Giroux, Getzlaf, Malkin, Stamkos and tons of other players. +11 is far from an awful +/- I get that in the past he has had a terrible +/- and of course he is not a defensive player in any sense of the term. But the dude is leading the league in goals and has higher plus minus then everyone ahead of him in overall points right now.
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On February 18 2015 13:05 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 12:29 Zdrastochye wrote:
Watching the Capitals for like 2-3 games tells you all you need to know about why Ovech has such an awful +/-. He doesn't try to play defense. His trips into his own end result in him wanting to push the puck up more then he wants to go after the puck. Imagine playing 4v5 in your own zone when your best line is on the ice. Yet he still has a higher +/- this year then Crosby, Patrick Kane, Voracek, Seguin, Tavares, Giroux, Getzlaf, Malkin, Stamkos and tons of other players. +11 is far from an awful +/- I get that in the past he has had a terrible +/- and of course he is not a defensive player in any sense of the term. But the dude is leading the league in goals and has higher plus minus then everyone ahead of him in overall points right now.
+/- is one of the most useless stats in sports.
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speaking of ovechkin, his comments after getzlaf accused him of diving
“No response,” Ovechkin said, before then offering one. “Maybe he’s just jealous. I have hair, he don’t have hair. We can start talking about it all day long. I think it was comment because he was disappointed they lost. Again, it is what it is.
hahahaha
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EPT
