|
On July 23 2013 21:29 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:27 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 21:27 Douillos wrote:On July 23 2013 21:23 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 21:21 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On July 23 2013 21:17 DidYuhim wrote:On July 23 2013 21:15 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 21:14 Kommander wrote:On July 23 2013 21:13 DeCoder wrote:
Well that was fun. One widow mine hit decides the outcome of the games 3 and 1. Stupid as hell. No, Innovation and his skill decided the outcome of all of the games. Seriously, stop with that crap. Bogus has special Mines which auto-burrow in the best positions and automatically target in such a way they maximize damage. I wish I had the same Mines. I'm not even sure if you're whining that Terran is OP, or if you're whining that Terran is too weak, or you're just whining just because. Terran scales insanely well with multitasking and skill. I wish the other races would behave like that (Z is going in this direction i think, but p is stuck). Advantage: Sick games and lots of sweaty korean faces Disadvantage: Foreigners will become even more obsolete All races scale well with skill, it just doesn't give the same impression on screen because some things like Observer positioning or chrono usage (for examples) are discreet. Still, The terran race does reward superhuman mechanics more than the other races do. Proof? Proof that I'm wrong?
I don't think you understand the concept of burden of proof..
|
Aphrodite is clapping with her fingers spread out.
So cute :3
|
|
|
On July 23 2013 21:29 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:29 Douillos wrote:On July 23 2013 21:27 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 21:27 Douillos wrote:On July 23 2013 21:23 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 21:21 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On July 23 2013 21:17 DidYuhim wrote:On July 23 2013 21:15 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 21:14 Kommander wrote:On July 23 2013 21:13 DeCoder wrote:
Well that was fun. One widow mine hit decides the outcome of the games 3 and 1. Stupid as hell. No, Innovation and his skill decided the outcome of all of the games. Seriously, stop with that crap. Bogus has special Mines which auto-burrow in the best positions and automatically target in such a way they maximize damage. I wish I had the same Mines. I'm not even sure if you're whining that Terran is OP, or if you're whining that Terran is too weak, or you're just whining just because. Terran scales insanely well with multitasking and skill. I wish the other races would behave like that (Z is going in this direction i think, but p is stuck). Advantage: Sick games and lots of sweaty korean faces Disadvantage: Foreigners will become even more obsolete All races scale well with skill, it just doesn't give the same impression on screen because some things like Observer positioning or chrono usage (for examples) are discreet. Still, The terran race does reward superhuman mechanics more than the other races do. Proof? Proof that I'm wrong? No, where's your proof that Terran rewards skill more than Zerg or Protoss?
I didn't say skill, I said mechanics. And let's be honest, anything I say or EVEN YOU say in this discussion is just pure opinon.
Please prove to me that Protoss rewards extreme mechanics as well as terran and I'll shut up.
|
|
|
On July 23 2013 21:23 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:14 Kommander wrote:On July 23 2013 21:13 DeCoder wrote:
Well that was fun. One widow mine hit decides the outcome of the games 3 and 1. Stupid as hell. No, Innovation and his skill decided the outcome of all of the games. Seriously, stop with that crap. No sir, from zerg view you cant see if the terran is microing his wm. This randomness highly infeasible from zerg view. Zerg can see this only if that fight is/was done. Another problem is: if both play on highest level, the mistake from the one player is rather from the sc2 game-design than his wrong decision. I see this 99% all games like this, IF both play on HIGHEST LEVEL.
you know when a player targetfires with a Mine, because it won't fire after 1,5 seconds. But if you want to go that way, Terrans doesn't see if a Zerg has selected burrowed banelings or not, they don't even see the banes at all. So random.
Wonder what will happen when more Terrans will targetfire switch the small ling groups Zergs send in since a single Ling usually dies before anything happens.
|
I may end up switching to terran after seeing just how strong widow mines are.
|
On July 23 2013 21:23 gingerfluffmuff wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:22 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On July 23 2013 21:21 bittman wrote:On July 23 2013 21:16 opterown wrote:![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/68.png)  Maru vs. ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/5.png) INnoVationPoll: Head?INnoVation (47) 90% Maru (5) 10% 52 total votes Your vote: Head? (Vote): Maru
(Vote): INnoVation
Poll: Heart?INnoVation (35) 56% Maru (27) 44% 62 total votes Your vote: Heart? (Vote): Maru
(Vote): INnoVation
It seems the LR thread loves an underdog, but doesn't expect one =P I actually think Maru is going to win. I dont think Fionn and Artosis are powerful enough to make that happen.
He doesn't need them.
Bogus seems a lot more vulnerable in TvT and I think Maru has the mechanics and understanding of the game to keep up for sure.
|
On July 23 2013 21:25 Chrobbus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:19 YyapSsap wrote:
Would this give blizz an incentive to nerf the widow mines?
Ive always felt that zerg in SC2 needs a solid AOE damage dealing unit that doesn't a) suicide - bling and b) ability - infestor based. Should blizz nerf the widow mines because one of the world's best terrans is capable of using them to their utmost capacity? This doesn't even look CLOSE to what Innovation's doing in master league and under. Probably not even in GM league on EU/NA does the widow mine appear to be as strong as it does for those absolute top notch terrans (especially ones like innovation who excel in micro). Zerg needs a solid aoe dmg dealing unit? What about the ultralisk? I believe that's quite the solid aoe damaging unit if you ask me.
Not to get to into balance but a widow mine nerf would suck.
What Zerg needs is better detection. Options would include:
1-upgrade to overseer vision so it doesn't have to be so close to detect WM
2-more HP on overseer so it can take more damage when scouting for WM
3-changeling grants detection
Right now so easy to snipe overseer and very hard to deal with MMM/WM pushes when Terran gets position.
|
Damn,.. there goes the zergs.. :/
|
On July 23 2013 21:30 Kommander wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:27 Ketch wrote:
The reason I feel that we are having this discussions is that in SC2 it is difficult to determine what part of Bogus's win we can attribute to him and what part to TvZ. Everyone has his own personal opinion of course on where the scale lies.
But the difficulty in determining that causes these discussions. It's difficult to determine generally, yes, but the fact that Innovation is a proven God-tier player and that he is the most consistently best TvZ'er alive today should make him deserve benefit of the doubt.
The issue people have is that other terran players are able to do it as well. This could be my mind making shit up, but I'd be pretty certain that if there was a statistic of a tvz that was the 3cc build, where the zerg got 4bases and both made it into the midgame, that terran would win the majority of those games. I don't know where I'd get that statistic, so I'm basing it off what I see lol.
|
On July 23 2013 21:32 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:27 NarutO wrote:On July 23 2013 21:27 Douillos wrote:On July 23 2013 21:23 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 21:21 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On July 23 2013 21:17 DidYuhim wrote:On July 23 2013 21:15 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 21:14 Kommander wrote:On July 23 2013 21:13 DeCoder wrote:
Well that was fun. One widow mine hit decides the outcome of the games 3 and 1. Stupid as hell. No, Innovation and his skill decided the outcome of all of the games. Seriously, stop with that crap. Bogus has special Mines which auto-burrow in the best positions and automatically target in such a way they maximize damage. I wish I had the same Mines. I'm not even sure if you're whining that Terran is OP, or if you're whining that Terran is too weak, or you're just whining just because. Terran scales insanely well with multitasking and skill. I wish the other races would behave like that (Z is going in this direction i think, but p is stuck). Advantage: Sick games and lots of sweaty korean faces Disadvantage: Foreigners will become even more obsolete All races scale well with skill, it just doesn't give the same impression on screen because some things like Observer positioning or chrono usage (for examples) are discreet. Still, The terran race does reward superhuman mechanics more than the other races do. It also demands superior mechanics to be competetive to begin with. I disagree, although I understand you are frustrated as that is what you are trying to do at the moment. I understand your frustration but excuses won't help you much.
Sorry but how do you disagree? Zerg and Protoss have a hard time as soon as the Terran is mechanically solid or high level. If the Terran has no mechanics to bring to the table, there's no need for their counterpart to have them. Protoss can play a very slow, not-heavy mechanical style and win games against way faster players, because their race isn't designed to be the one that needs to be active. Terran is cost efficient and can only be cost efficient if your micro and multitasking is proper, your units can be worth a billion or exactly zero depending on how you play and control.
Protoss Colossi damage can be maximized, but it will never be worthless. (just one example)
|
On July 23 2013 21:32 FLuE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:25 Chrobbus wrote:On July 23 2013 21:19 YyapSsap wrote:
Would this give blizz an incentive to nerf the widow mines?
Ive always felt that zerg in SC2 needs a solid AOE damage dealing unit that doesn't a) suicide - bling and b) ability - infestor based. Should blizz nerf the widow mines because one of the world's best terrans is capable of using them to their utmost capacity? This doesn't even look CLOSE to what Innovation's doing in master league and under. Probably not even in GM league on EU/NA does the widow mine appear to be as strong as it does for those absolute top notch terrans (especially ones like innovation who excel in micro). Zerg needs a solid aoe dmg dealing unit? What about the ultralisk? I believe that's quite the solid aoe damaging unit if you ask me. Not to get to into balance but a widow mine nerf would suck. What Zerg needs is better detection. Options would include: 1-upgrade to overseer vision so it doesn't have to be so close to detect WM 2-more HP on overseer so it can take more damage when scouting for WM 3-changeling grants detection Right now so easy to snipe overseer and very hard to deal with MMM/WM pushes when Terran gets position.
How about you just make there damage like banelings, so it scales with armor and weapons upgrades.
Edit: I guess they'd be useless vs Ultras and bcs then. Ugh
|
On July 23 2013 21:33 Jmanthedragonguy wrote:
Damn,.. there goes the zergs.. :/
and I'm quite happy about that. No need for another Zerg finals. They can come back next season, it's time for a good TvT finals again ^.^
|
On July 23 2013 21:34 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:32 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 23 2013 21:27 NarutO wrote:On July 23 2013 21:27 Douillos wrote:On July 23 2013 21:23 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 21:21 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On July 23 2013 21:17 DidYuhim wrote:On July 23 2013 21:15 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 21:14 Kommander wrote:On July 23 2013 21:13 DeCoder wrote:
Well that was fun. One widow mine hit decides the outcome of the games 3 and 1. Stupid as hell. No, Innovation and his skill decided the outcome of all of the games. Seriously, stop with that crap. Bogus has special Mines which auto-burrow in the best positions and automatically target in such a way they maximize damage. I wish I had the same Mines. I'm not even sure if you're whining that Terran is OP, or if you're whining that Terran is too weak, or you're just whining just because. Terran scales insanely well with multitasking and skill. I wish the other races would behave like that (Z is going in this direction i think, but p is stuck). Advantage: Sick games and lots of sweaty korean faces Disadvantage: Foreigners will become even more obsolete All races scale well with skill, it just doesn't give the same impression on screen because some things like Observer positioning or chrono usage (for examples) are discreet. Still, The terran race does reward superhuman mechanics more than the other races do. It also demands superior mechanics to be competetive to begin with. I disagree, although I understand you are frustrated as that is what you are trying to do at the moment. I understand your frustration but excuses won't help you much. Sorry but how do you disagree? Zerg and Protoss have a hard time as soon as the Terran is mechanically solid or high level. If the Terran has no mechanics to bring to the table, there's no need for their counterpart to have them. Protoss can play a very slow, not-heavy mechanical style and win games against way faster players, because their race isn't designed to be the one that needs to be active. Terran is cost efficient and can only be cost efficient if your micro and multitasking is proper, your units can be worth a billion or exactly zero depending on how you play and control. Protoss Colossi damage can be maximized, but it will never be worthless. (just one example)
I don't think its even possible to argue that protoss takes the same mechanical ability as terran, but it's very possible to argue a zvt ling muta bling takes just as much mechanical ability as bio mine.
|
On July 23 2013 21:35 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:33 Jmanthedragonguy wrote:
Damn,.. there goes the zergs.. :/ and I'm quite happy about that. No need for another Zerg finals. They can come back next season, it's time for a good TvT finals again ^.^
I think most people are wishing for a TVP.
Rain vs Inno could be crazy good.
|
On July 23 2013 21:34 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:32 FLuE wrote:On July 23 2013 21:25 Chrobbus wrote:On July 23 2013 21:19 YyapSsap wrote:
Would this give blizz an incentive to nerf the widow mines?
Ive always felt that zerg in SC2 needs a solid AOE damage dealing unit that doesn't a) suicide - bling and b) ability - infestor based. Should blizz nerf the widow mines because one of the world's best terrans is capable of using them to their utmost capacity? This doesn't even look CLOSE to what Innovation's doing in master league and under. Probably not even in GM league on EU/NA does the widow mine appear to be as strong as it does for those absolute top notch terrans (especially ones like innovation who excel in micro). Zerg needs a solid aoe dmg dealing unit? What about the ultralisk? I believe that's quite the solid aoe damaging unit if you ask me. Not to get to into balance but a widow mine nerf would suck. What Zerg needs is better detection. Options would include: 1-upgrade to overseer vision so it doesn't have to be so close to detect WM 2-more HP on overseer so it can take more damage when scouting for WM 3-changeling grants detection Right now so easy to snipe overseer and very hard to deal with MMM/WM pushes when Terran gets position. How about you just make there damage like banelings, so it scales with armor and weapons upgrades.
I think they should bring back the detector ability originally from the viper where it makes a unit act as a detector so you don't always need to have overseers with you because mutas and overseers don't quite sync well.
|
On July 23 2013 21:36 YyapSsap wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:34 bo1b wrote:On July 23 2013 21:32 FLuE wrote:On July 23 2013 21:25 Chrobbus wrote:On July 23 2013 21:19 YyapSsap wrote:
Would this give blizz an incentive to nerf the widow mines?
Ive always felt that zerg in SC2 needs a solid AOE damage dealing unit that doesn't a) suicide - bling and b) ability - infestor based. Should blizz nerf the widow mines because one of the world's best terrans is capable of using them to their utmost capacity? This doesn't even look CLOSE to what Innovation's doing in master league and under. Probably not even in GM league on EU/NA does the widow mine appear to be as strong as it does for those absolute top notch terrans (especially ones like innovation who excel in micro). Zerg needs a solid aoe dmg dealing unit? What about the ultralisk? I believe that's quite the solid aoe damaging unit if you ask me. Not to get to into balance but a widow mine nerf would suck. What Zerg needs is better detection. Options would include: 1-upgrade to overseer vision so it doesn't have to be so close to detect WM 2-more HP on overseer so it can take more damage when scouting for WM 3-changeling grants detection Right now so easy to snipe overseer and very hard to deal with MMM/WM pushes when Terran gets position. How about you just make there damage like banelings, so it scales with armor and weapons upgrades. I think they should bring back the detector ability originally from the viper where it makes a unit act as a detector so you don't always need to have overseers with you because mutas and overseers don't quite sync well.
That wouldn't matter in 95% of the games.
|
Best player in the world wins and people are already balance whining.
That's LR for you =\
|
On July 23 2013 21:37 Thrillz wrote:
Best player in the world wins and people are already balance whining.
That's LR for you =\
HUURRR, INNOVATION SCRUB PATCHTERRAN
On a side note, what's this map called?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
