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On July 23 2013 21:37 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:36 YyapSsap wrote:On July 23 2013 21:34 bo1b wrote:On July 23 2013 21:32 FLuE wrote:On July 23 2013 21:25 Chrobbus wrote:On July 23 2013 21:19 YyapSsap wrote:
Would this give blizz an incentive to nerf the widow mines?
Ive always felt that zerg in SC2 needs a solid AOE damage dealing unit that doesn't a) suicide - bling and b) ability - infestor based. Should blizz nerf the widow mines because one of the world's best terrans is capable of using them to their utmost capacity? This doesn't even look CLOSE to what Innovation's doing in master league and under. Probably not even in GM league on EU/NA does the widow mine appear to be as strong as it does for those absolute top notch terrans (especially ones like innovation who excel in micro). Zerg needs a solid aoe dmg dealing unit? What about the ultralisk? I believe that's quite the solid aoe damaging unit if you ask me. Not to get to into balance but a widow mine nerf would suck. What Zerg needs is better detection. Options would include: 1-upgrade to overseer vision so it doesn't have to be so close to detect WM 2-more HP on overseer so it can take more damage when scouting for WM 3-changeling grants detection Right now so easy to snipe overseer and very hard to deal with MMM/WM pushes when Terran gets position. How about you just make there damage like banelings, so it scales with armor and weapons upgrades. I think they should bring back the detector ability originally from the viper where it makes a unit act as a detector so you don't always need to have overseers with you because mutas and overseers don't quite sync well. That wouldn't matter in 95% of the games.
Obviously this ability will come from T2 and not from the viper itself. Maybe the overseer grants one unit this vision? that kind of thing.
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On July 23 2013 21:36 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:35 Yello wrote:On July 23 2013 21:33 Jmanthedragonguy wrote:
Damn,.. there goes the zergs.. :/ and I'm quite happy about that. No need for another Zerg finals. They can come back next season, it's time for a good TvT finals again ^.^ I think most people are wishing for a TVP. Rain vs Inno could be crazy good.
the last TvP finals was Mvp vs Squirtle and it was awesome. The last TvT finals was MMA-Mvp I think? And that was in 2011 if I recall correctly.
An awesome TvT finals is long overdue
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On July 23 2013 21:36 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:35 Yello wrote:On July 23 2013 21:33 Jmanthedragonguy wrote:
Damn,.. there goes the zergs.. :/ and I'm quite happy about that. No need for another Zerg finals. They can come back next season, it's time for a good TvT finals again ^.^ I think most people are wishing for a TVP. Rain vs Inno could be crazy good.
Idk.
Earlygame:
Failed Oracle rush --> P dead 12 min
maybe a mine drop
Lategame:
Anticlimatic 200 bio vs 185 deathball
TvZ is still the king of matchups imo.
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Honestly, I feel that the medivac is the true abusive Terran unit, especially with the speed upgrades.
(a) They make the bio ball so much more durable and cost-efficient.
(b) They make marine splits much easier due to lack of clumping (whereas in BW medics are also ground units)
(c) They make harassing so much easier, with minimal losses.
(d) They can escape snipe easily with the speed boost.
In the games today, I wince whenever I saw SK manoeuvring his mutas for a nice snipe on medivacs, but the medivacs just accelerate away. It's almost impossible to destroy medivacs even when caught out of position.
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On July 23 2013 21:38 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:36 Douillos wrote:On July 23 2013 21:35 Yello wrote:On July 23 2013 21:33 Jmanthedragonguy wrote:
Damn,.. there goes the zergs.. :/ and I'm quite happy about that. No need for another Zerg finals. They can come back next season, it's time for a good TvT finals again ^.^ I think most people are wishing for a TVP. Rain vs Inno could be crazy good. the last TvP finals was Mvp vs Squirtle and it was awesome. The last TvT finals was MMA-Mvp I think? And that was in 2011 if I recall correctly. An awesome TvT finals is long overdue
imo mvp vs squirtle was horribly overhyped, particularly game 6.
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I would love a TvT finals between Innovation and Bomber. If that doesn't happen, Innovation vs. First or Rain would be equally good. I think Rain is overall better but First has really strong TvP.
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On July 23 2013 21:37 Thrillz wrote:
Best player in the world wins and people are already balance whining.
That's LR for you =\
I think people tend to get frustrated when the best Terran in the world rolls over the best Zerg without it even being close.
But yeah, i agree.
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On July 23 2013 21:40 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:37 Thrillz wrote:
Best player in the world wins and people are already balance whining.
That's LR for you =\ I think people tend to get frustrated when the best Terran in the world rolls over the best Zerg without it even being close. But yeah, i agree.
Maybe it would have ended with 3:4 if this was bo7, we'll never know.
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On July 23 2013 21:38 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:36 Douillos wrote:On July 23 2013 21:35 Yello wrote:On July 23 2013 21:33 Jmanthedragonguy wrote:
Damn,.. there goes the zergs.. :/ and I'm quite happy about that. No need for another Zerg finals. They can come back next season, it's time for a good TvT finals again ^.^ I think most people are wishing for a TVP. Rain vs Inno could be crazy good. the last TvP finals was Mvp vs Squirtle and it was awesome. The last TvT finals was MMA-Mvp I think? And that was in 2011 if I recall correctly. An awesome TvT finals is long overdue
Really we need a good TvT finals to begin with. Both Mvp/MKP finals were a laugh, Mvp/TOP had an amazing first game but after that Mvp stomped, Polt/MMA was a stomp, MMA/Mvp was a stomp. For as good a matchup as it was in WoL, the GSL finals curse really brought it down.
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4713 Posts
On July 23 2013 21:30 Kommander wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:27 Ketch wrote:
The reason I feel that we are having this discussions is that in SC2 it is difficult to determine what part of Bogus's win we can attribute to him and what part to TvZ. Everyone has his own personal opinion of course on where the scale lies.
But the difficulty in determining that causes these discussions. It's difficult to determine generally, yes, but the fact that Innovation is a proven God-tier player and that he is the most consistently best TvZ'er alive today should make him deserve benefit of the doubt.
Agreed with that, I don't think any balance related decisions should be taken based on the results of a few very talented individuals. Just imagine how BW would have been like if zerg was nerfed to hell due to Savior? Or Terran due to Flash?
Flash, Bogus and other players like them are outliners, studying them for balance sake is nearly meaningless because they seem to have clicked on to something that makes the very strong in this MU. What needs to be studied is general trends and the ebb and flow of the meta-game over a very long time.
So far a lot of the monthly statistics have shown that TvZ and ZvT is quite balanced, both sides have some timings and pressures they can use on each other to do damage and keep the other guy honest, and both have good late games. Its just at the moment zerg seems to have a really difficult time getting into the late game and to 3/3 Adrenal and Citinous Plating, we do know that once there and once they have ultras zerg is on better footing.
This trend of zerg not being able to reliably get to the late game is the only thing that I keep noticing ever since HoTS launch, and if it keeps up sooner or later it might need to be addressed, but for now its not the case.
For now just continue to enjoy the spectacular games that Innovation gives us, and bask in his awesome never-ending pushes, fueled by his fantastic macro and driven by his exquisite micro and splits.
And finally a TvT semifinals, we haven't had one of those in a really long time, hopefully it goes all the way to game 7, and now with hellbats nerfed, we can finally get to see some glorious marine tank wars again, or bio vs mech!
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Can't we all conclude that any finals at this stage would be excellent, with Maru's performance today...Potentially many great storylines!
To think that Innovation could follow his WCS KR finals and Regional finals win with an OSL title, possibly Shanghai and Proleague! What a dominance that could prove to be!
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I don't complain about WM or hellbat, but from the look of all the game i watched so far (this is purely observation w/out any statistic), the role of additional unit in HoTS in term of usage and important: T>>P>>Z, for Z the only function/unit is used frequently is the ability to fast regenerate of Muta, the role Swarm host or viper is miles below the contribution of Mothership core to P and miles miles behind window mines or hellbat (bfore nerf) or even medivac boost to Terran. Call me OP whiner but Blizzard really love T
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A Rain vs INnoVation is most likely and the best matchup. I don't know how long Bomber can hold off choking, but First has a pretty good PvT and so does Rain, who also dominated in their Ro32 match.
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Austria24422 Posts
What are you people, insane? Mvp vs Squirtle was the best finals ever. Mvp played godly the first three games, Squirtle played godly the next 3. It had everything: a basetrade-ish scenario in game one, a standard macro game, a crazy tank contain, an absolutely non-standard macro game, a crazy 3 game comeback by Squirtle and probably the most tense ending to any series ever. Oh also the flashiest fight in all of SC2.
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On July 23 2013 21:41 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:40 Douillos wrote:On July 23 2013 21:37 Thrillz wrote:
Best player in the world wins and people are already balance whining.
That's LR for you =\ I think people tend to get frustrated when the best Terran in the world rolls over the best Zerg without it even being close. But yeah, i agree. Maybe it would have ended with 3:4 if this was bo7, we'll never know.
Hehe 
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On July 23 2013 21:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:
What are you people, insane? Mvp vs Squirtle was the best finals ever. Mvp played godly the first three games, Squirtle played godly the next 3 and the ending was probably the most tense ending to any series ever.
Stop trolling, you're being silly.
edit: you have game 7 right but everything else ><
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 23 2013 21:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:
What are you people, insane? Mvp vs Squirtle was the best finals ever. Mvp played godly the first three games, Squirtle played godly the next 3 and the ending was probably the most tense ending to any series ever.
or how about squirtle played crap the first three and g7, mvp played bad in g4/6, only g5 was that good ;p.
good storyline though
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EPT
