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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On November 05 2012 10:45 xN.07)MaK wrote: I understand this, imagine Flash wins the extended series to Life. Then it's completely fair that both Leenock and Flash have no advantage. But Life did drop a series, so it just doesn't feel right. Leenock dropped a series vs Oz. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On November 05 2012 10:45 xN.07)MaK wrote: I understand this, imagine Flash wins the extended series to Life. Then it's completely fair that both Leenock and Flash have no advantage. But Life did drop a series, so it just doesn't feel right. Life's punishment for having dropped that series was having to win four games against Flash without letting Flash win more than one. | ||
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xN.07)MaK
Spain1159 Posts
On November 05 2012 10:44 rd wrote: It's an advantage in itself not having to battle your way through the lower brackets. The point of lower bracket is to give a second chance, at the cost of more games and a small disadvantage to the player who did it "the right way". In this system, it can happen that a) both drop a series but win their bracket, b) none drops a series to win their bracket, c) 1 does drop a series but the other doesn't. In a) and b), there is no issue. But in c), the player undefeated should have an advantage, it just seems fair. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On November 05 2012 10:46 vthree wrote: Every system has its drawbacks. Single elim is the most 'fair' but you don't want players only having 1 chance and getting a bad draw. Double elim has 'extended series' issues. As for Leenock not having an advantage despite not losing a series. Remember he also 'lost' against Oz in group play (but did avenge that lost). Plus even GSL has this issue, you can technical lose 2 series (one in Ro32, one in Ro16) and play someone going 4-0 in Ro8. And they won't have an advantage either. I think the best system is a group stage into a single elim bracket with at least bo5, so, like GSL. Single elim gives less headaches for the viewers and a longer series will give the better player the best chance to win. | ||
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SHOOG
United States1639 Posts
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BraveProbe
36 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On November 05 2012 10:22 frogrubdown wrote: Update of Day3 post counts: 2012 [Day 3] MLG Fall Championships................9,846 [Day 3] MLG Summer Championships.........5,680 [Day 3] MLG Spring Championships............7,727 [Day 3] MLG Winter Championship.............11,164 2011 [Day 3] MLG Providence........................... 17,781 [Day 3] MLG Orlando................................. 20,173 [Day 3] MLG Raleigh..................................14,687 [Day 3] MLG Anaheim (red stream).............15,860 [Day 3] MLG Columbus..............................28,621 [Day 3] MLG Dallas ..................................18,644 More than the last two, but still worse than every prior MLG containing Koreans. If I wanted to seriously figure out this pattern, I'd have to look at other day data though. Especially as I get the sense that foreigners have been having a decreasingly large impact on the final day compared to other days, and foreigners often drive post count. If Flash made the finals, probably hits 12k+ posts. After Flash beat Life in game 1, there were 200+ posts in a minute. | ||
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xN.07)MaK
Spain1159 Posts
Yeah, this is another thing. This "defeats in group play don't count" in the CB. Whoever created this system, managed to make everyone having a point to complain. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On November 05 2012 10:48 Dodgin wrote: I think the best system is a group stage into a single elim bracket with at least bo5, so, like GSL. Single elim gives less headaches for the viewers and a longer series will give the better player the best chance to win. Actually, GSL is not actually group stage as in round robin. If you look at the GSL groups (both Ro 32, Ro16), it is actually a 4 man double elim bracket. The difference from MLG is the MLG seeds players into the Champ bracket by their performance in the double elim whereas in GSL, you just have to 'get out' of your group and everything gets wiped. And if you count Code A, GSL actually does seed into Code A based on the double elim performance. The big difference is that you don't have a chance to win Code S in that season whereas you still have a chance in the MLG format. I am not sure there is a 'best' system given the number of players and time limitations. If you ask 10 people for what they feel is best, you could end up with 10 different formats. | ||
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Zebb
United States834 Posts
On November 05 2012 10:50 xN.07)MaK wrote: Yeah, this is another thing. This "defeats in group play don't count" in the CB. Whoever created this system, managed to make everyone having a point to complain. I think it's pretty good. There is extended series in group play, but nobody gets eliminated in group play, it just determines seeding into the champ bracket. The loser bracket ends at the semifinals, so all extended series issues are resolved before the grand finals, ensuring a clean bo7 for the grand final. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On November 05 2012 10:49 GolemMadness wrote: If Flash made the finals, probably hits 12k+ posts. After Flash beat Life in game 1, there were 200+ posts in a minute. i've seen a lot of interest from people who dont bother with sc2 just because of flash (including myself) | ||
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feanor1
United States1899 Posts
On November 05 2012 10:22 frogrubdown wrote: Update of Day3 post counts: 2012 [Day 3] MLG Fall Championships................9,846 [Day 3] MLG Summer Championships.........5,680 [Day 3] MLG Spring Championships............7,727 [Day 3] MLG Winter Championship.............11,164 2011 [Day 3] MLG Providence........................... 17,781 [Day 3] MLG Orlando................................. 20,173 [Day 3] MLG Raleigh..................................14,687 [Day 3] MLG Anaheim (red stream).............15,860 [Day 3] MLG Columbus..............................28,621 [Day 3] MLG Dallas ..................................18,644 More than the last two, but still worse than every prior MLG containing Koreans. If I wanted to seriously figure out this pattern, I'd have to look at other day data though. Especially as I get the sense that foreigners have been having a decreasingly large impact on the final day compared to other days, and foreigners often drive post count. I think there are other factors in play, such as major technical difficulties at MLG Dallas 2011 and Columbus 2011. Like Pages and Pages of the cat crossing the river photoshops. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32740 Posts
On November 05 2012 10:22 frogrubdown wrote: Update of Day3 post counts: 2012 [Day 3] MLG Fall Championships................9,846 [Day 3] MLG Summer Championships.........5,680 [Day 3] MLG Spring Championships............7,727 [Day 3] MLG Winter Championship.............11,164 2011 [Day 3] MLG Providence........................... 17,781 [Day 3] MLG Orlando................................. 20,173 [Day 3] MLG Raleigh..................................14,687 [Day 3] MLG Anaheim (red stream).............15,860 [Day 3] MLG Columbus..............................28,621 [Day 3] MLG Dallas ..................................18,644 More than the last two, but still worse than every prior MLG containing Koreans. If I wanted to seriously figure out this pattern, I'd have to look at other day data though. Especially as I get the sense that foreigners have been having a decreasingly large impact on the final day compared to other days, and foreigners often drive post count. To be fair, 2011 MLGs had more "epic moments" compared to the 2012 ones. I think everyone remembers all the IdrA occurrences in 2011, as well as the whole storyline of having Koreans dominate MLG. Plus the sheer amount of tournaments coming up always causes some viewer apathy, considering that there are six premier tournaments occurring in Nov/Dec, not including GSTL. | ||
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frogrubdown
1266 Posts
On November 05 2012 10:55 feanor1 wrote: I think there are other factors in play, such as major technical difficulties at MLG Dallas 2011 and Columbus 2011. Like Pages and Pages of the cat crossing the river photoshops. Definitely a significant factor in Dallas. But Columbus I think was just about the huge story lines more than anything else: first ever MLG with Koreans, Idra vs. MC, Idra vs. MMA in the famous blow-up-my-own-CC-into-inexplicable-idra-quit game. edit: On November 05 2012 10:58 PhoenixVoid wrote: To be fair, 2011 MLGs had more "epic moments" compared to the 2012 ones. I think everyone remembers all the IdrA occurrences in 2011, as well as the whole storyline of having Koreans dominate MLG. Plus the sheer amount of tournaments coming up always causes some viewer apathy, considering that there are six premier tournaments occurring in Nov/Dec, not including GSTL. We're in agreement. It'd be interesting to look at a fuller data set though, including comparative Dreamhacks. Taking a glance at the Day 2 totals, it looks like the above pattern is not present. That is, there are very similar day 2 post numbers from the start of 2011 through this tournament, unlike day 3. This would support the "Posts are driven by foreigners who no longer make the final day as often" theory. The main remaining question would be the relation between posts and viewers. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8230 Posts
On November 05 2012 10:49 GolemMadness wrote: If Flash made the finals, probably hits 12k+ posts. After Flash beat Life in game 1, there were 200+ posts in a minute. SC2 is dying. Everyone is watching or playing LoL, to simply put it. I think if we had a LoL thread and forum, there would be more LoL posts. Out of all my friends and I that were watching MLG, only I was watching SC2. The rest was either bouncing back and forth between SC2 and LoL, or watching just LoL. | ||
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WoodLeagueAllStar
United States806 Posts
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PanicTerran
United States10 Posts
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haitike
Spain2708 Posts
On November 05 2012 11:08 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. Everyone is watching or playing LoL, to simply put it. I think if we had a LoL thread and forum, there would be more LoL posts. Out of all my friends and I that were watching MLG, only I was watching SC2. The rest was either bouncing back and forth between SC2 and LoL, or watching just LoL. That is not true. Almost all the day3 MLG had near or more than 100k, and lol 120/150k. The difference was not so big. We have posted 4k posts (420 pages) in the MLG Live Thread in our Spanish WebSite. And It is a Spanish website! | ||
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GettingIt
1656 Posts
On November 05 2012 11:09 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: This thread was blazing when Flash was in it, we just need more players average people are passionate about like Idra, Flash, Stephano the kinds of players of 2011. Too bad foreigners suck  | ||
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sc14s
United States5052 Posts
On November 05 2012 11:08 geokilla wrote: SC2 is dying. Everyone is watching or playing LoL, to simply put it. I think if we had a LoL thread and forum, there would be more LoL posts. Out of all my friends and I that were watching MLG, only I was watching SC2. The rest was either bouncing back and forth between SC2 and LoL, or watching just LoL. i would say not everyone is playing lol.. you have plenty that play dota as well.... granted thats still a moba and yes sc2 is declining. | ||
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