|
Standard LR rules apply: No balance whining, no KeSPA vs. GomTV inciting, no excessive derailing ESPECIALLY when games are on. This is not a thread for you to argue with other people. |
On October 11 2012 03:19 partysnatcher wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 03:05 Ysellian wrote:On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end. What makes Rain and Stephano more enjoyable than MVP? Honest question, because I feel these two players in particular have plenty of similarities in their play style. A defensive macro orientated strategy focusing more on out thinking their opponents than out microing / out multitasking their opponents. (with even the occasional cheese thrown into the mix) My favorite part of Rain's play is his approach to engagements, the way he chooses his concaves and sets up his damage (storms or colossus). I enjoy the way he has reinvented P by using Zealots as his opportunity unit and by reducing the sentry count. Other than that, I agree that his skillset overlaps with MVP ("bulletproof" builds, great decision making etc). As for Stephano, he is a macro and build beast, and there's a reason why Jaedong himself expressed enthusiasm for his style. I'm not a huge fan of watching Stephanos games, but I like that he exists because he has perfected a niche.
Thanks, I really like the way Rain plays as well. I will certainly re-watch some of the Rain's games a bit more and look at the finer aspects. I do see the difference with MVP in this regard as well.
|
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end.
"The most-winning. Not the best"? What the fuck kind of statement is that, flash isn't the best BW player only the "most-winning", Michael Jordon isn't the best basketball player only the "most-winning", iG aren't the best dota team only the "most-winning" seriously how do you quantify best as not "most-winning"? If a player has won more than everyone else he's the best, not this wishy washy "Oh he's actually better even though he lost" bullshit that's always spread around LR threads yes perhaps MMA is the better multitasker, perhaps taeja can macro better, perhaps rain is better at picking fights but there's much more to the game than that one aspect, enjoy that one aspect and cheer for that player fine whatever but don't say stupid shit like "Most-winning" that's an irrelevent phrase that just means best. Yes I am getting hung up on one phrase but that one phrase agitated me so much I had to respond.
|
On October 11 2012 03:37 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end. "The most-winning. Not the best"? What the fuck kind of statement is that, flash isn't the best BW player only the "most-winning", Michael Jordon isn't the best basketball player only the "most-winning", iG aren't the best dota team only the "most-winning" seriously how do you quantify best as not "most-winning"? If a player has won more than everyone else he's the best, not this wishy washy "Oh he's actually better even though he lost" bullshit that's always spread around LR threads yes perhaps MMA is the better multitasker, perhaps taeja can macro better, perhaps rain is better at picking fights but there's much more to the game than that one aspect, enjoy that one aspect and cheer for that player fine whatever but don't say stupid shit like "Most-winning" that's an irrelevent phrase that just means best. Yes I am getting hung up on one phrase but that one phrase agitated me so much I had to respond.
An example: When Stephano was asked about participating in Code S, he said he didn't want to play there, because he wouldn't do well in that format (preparing for one single player for a week).
MVP however, plays very well in this format. He is good at preparing for opponents, he is an excellent "poker player", both in the hand he shows and how he reads his opponent. He is excellent at the mindgame / nerve aspect of BOx-sets. He has played for years in a tournament that has been Terran dominated, and he is extremely good at TvT. So you could say, while Stephano is poorly suited for GSL, MVP has been very well suited for GSL.
However, I'm watching SC2 for people who can perform superhuman feats of control, coordination and creativity. The control and creativity are what I consider the "skills" in SC2, not the opponent preparation abilities and intraset mindgames, which are MVPs strengths.
Hero is extremely talented, but he often screws things up because of nerves. Stephano, however, is so far the mostwinning player in 2012, before MVP, but I don't consider him the best SC2 player. Skill doesn't always translate into wins, and vice versa.
|
On October 11 2012 03:56 partysnatcher wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 03:37 Fusilero wrote:On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end. "The most-winning. Not the best"? What the fuck kind of statement is that, flash isn't the best BW player only the "most-winning", Michael Jordon isn't the best basketball player only the "most-winning", iG aren't the best dota team only the "most-winning" seriously how do you quantify best as not "most-winning"? If a player has won more than everyone else he's the best, not this wishy washy "Oh he's actually better even though he lost" bullshit that's always spread around LR threads yes perhaps MMA is the better multitasker, perhaps taeja can macro better, perhaps rain is better at picking fights but there's much more to the game than that one aspect, enjoy that one aspect and cheer for that player fine whatever but don't say stupid shit like "Most-winning" that's an irrelevent phrase that just means best. Yes I am getting hung up on one phrase but that one phrase agitated me so much I had to respond. An example: When Stephano was asked about participating in Code S, he said he didn't want to play there, because he wouldn't do well in that format (preparing for one single player for a week). MVP however, plays very well in this format. He is good at preparing for opponents, he is an excellent "poker player", both in the hand he shows and how he reads his opponent. He is excellent at the mindgame / nerve aspect of BOx-sets. He has played for years in a tournament that has been Terran dominated, and he is extremely good at TvT. So you could say, while Stephano is poorly suited for GSL, MVP has been very well suited for GSL. However, I'm watching SC2 for people who can perform superhuman feats of control, coordination and creativity. That's what I consider the "skills" in SC2. I feel MVP has been very well adapted to the specific format and racial distribution of GSL, the amount of pressure involved and so on.
You just said yourself why MVP is such a good player though. He's a great "poker player"
He really does know how to play mindgames and he reads his opponents really well. That is a sign of a really good player. Not one who can just macro really well and multitask etc, but one who can really play the mindgames.
|
On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end.
You call him overrated and for ages I have been voting against him myself. But how can you justify calling him overrated when he makes 2 GSL finals in a row, while having severe problems with his wrists? which don't allow him to practice as he would want to. You were obviously an upset fanboy. I am not a big MVP fan but he is simply amazing and no one, and I repeat NO ONE can come close to claiming they are better SC2 players over the life of the game so far than him. MC and Nestea would be the only other ones who had such sustained dominance and Nestea is basically gone and MC is simply a good Protoss now who can turn it on at times.
Your posts and reasoning are quite laughable too. How can you be the most winning(Then AND now) player ever by a long shot and not the best? Get over yourself.
|
On October 11 2012 04:16 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end. You call him overrated and for ages I have been voting against him myself. But how can you justify calling him overrated when he makes 2 GSL finals in a row, while having severe problems with his wrists? which don't allow him to practice as he would want to. You were obviously an upset fanboy. I am not a big MVP fan but he is simply amazing and no one, and I repeat NO ONE can come close to claiming they are better SC2 players over the life of the game so far than him. MC and Nestea would be the only other ones who had such sustained dominance and Nestea is basically gone and MC is simply a good Protoss now who can turn it on at times. Your posts and reasoning are quite laughable too. How can you be the most winning(Then AND now) player ever by a long shot and not the best? Get over yourself.
I call him overrated not because of his performances, but because of the amount of emotional worship he receives, despite people being unable to point out any distinct strengths besides pure mindgames.
The wrist problems I hear a lot of talk about, but MVP keeps playing and winning high-APM games, so until he starts conceding matches or seeming untrained, it looks like he really has no big problems (TLO had to stop playing completely)
If you want to use wins only as argument for success, then how about this? http://sc2earnings.com/?year=2012 (Stephano #1, MVP #6).
Anyway this is getting emotional and fanboyish again so I'm just going to peace out.
|
every fucking time
MVP is the boy who never cries wolf.
|
Amazing couple of series, my Liquibet got absolutely hammered. I think MVP's secret to success is actually my liquibet. When I vote against him he wins, whenever I vote for him he loses 
|
On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end.
See you could have made an actual argument for yourself if you would have left out this last part; really just makes you look like a moron.
We celebrate him because he is the greatest, and there's really no other way to refute that when you look at the simple facts. you say MMA has better decision making? why is he currently in code A? MC? he's not even in the gsl right now.
Everyone has the right to like certain players, and there's nothing wrong with that, but when you come in and say that MVP is overrated and support your argument with players like MMA/MC (not even going to go through the whole list) and continue to refute the simple fact that MVP holds the best record in Starcraft...
+ Show Spoiler +bro you either trollin' or u dumbbbbb
On October 11 2012 04:26 partysnatcher wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:16 mrtomjones wrote:On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end. You call him overrated and for ages I have been voting against him myself. But how can you justify calling him overrated when he makes 2 GSL finals in a row, while having severe problems with his wrists? which don't allow him to practice as he would want to. You were obviously an upset fanboy. I am not a big MVP fan but he is simply amazing and no one, and I repeat NO ONE can come close to claiming they are better SC2 players over the life of the game so far than him. MC and Nestea would be the only other ones who had such sustained dominance and Nestea is basically gone and MC is simply a good Protoss now who can turn it on at times. Your posts and reasoning are quite laughable too. How can you be the most winning(Then AND now) player ever by a long shot and not the best? Get over yourself. I call him overrated not because of his performances, but because of the amount of emotional worship he receives, despite people being unable to point out any distinct strengths besides pure mindgames. The wrist problems I hear a lot of talk about, but MVP keeps playing and winning high-APM games, so until he starts conceding matches or seeming untrained, it looks like he really has no big problems (TLO had to stop playing completely) If you want to use wins only as argument for success, then how about this? http://sc2earnings.com/?year=2012 (Stephano #1, MVP #6). Anyway this is getting emotional and fanboyish again so I'm just going to peace out.
+ Show Spoiler +this just makes me thing you're even dumber than your previous post
|
On October 11 2012 03:56 partysnatcher wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 03:37 Fusilero wrote:On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end. "The most-winning. Not the best"? What the fuck kind of statement is that, flash isn't the best BW player only the "most-winning", Michael Jordon isn't the best basketball player only the "most-winning", iG aren't the best dota team only the "most-winning" seriously how do you quantify best as not "most-winning"? If a player has won more than everyone else he's the best, not this wishy washy "Oh he's actually better even though he lost" bullshit that's always spread around LR threads yes perhaps MMA is the better multitasker, perhaps taeja can macro better, perhaps rain is better at picking fights but there's much more to the game than that one aspect, enjoy that one aspect and cheer for that player fine whatever but don't say stupid shit like "Most-winning" that's an irrelevent phrase that just means best. Yes I am getting hung up on one phrase but that one phrase agitated me so much I had to respond. An example: When Stephano was asked about participating in Code S, he said he didn't want to play there, because he wouldn't do well in that format (preparing for one single player for a week). MVP however, plays very well in this format. He is good at preparing for opponents, he is an excellent "poker player", both in the hand he shows and how he reads his opponent. He is excellent at the mindgame / nerve aspect of BOx-sets. He has played for years in a tournament that has been Terran dominated, and he is extremely good at TvT. So you could say, while Stephano is poorly suited for GSL, MVP has been very well suited for GSL. However, I'm watching SC2 for people who can perform superhuman feats of control, coordination and creativity. The control and creativity are what I consider the "skills" in SC2, not the opponent preparation abilities and intraset mindgames, which are MVPs strengths. Hero is extremely talented, but he often screws things up because of nerves. Stephano, however, is so far the mostwinning player in 2012, before MVP, but I don't consider him the best SC2 player. Skill doesn't always translate into wins, and vice versa.
Why do you believe that opponent preparation abilities, intraset mindgames, selfcontrol, be able to face the presion are not skills!?
superhuman feats of control, coordination and creativity lose to preparation and calm mind, that is in SC2 - BW and every other sport in the earth. Yea you can play super cool in the ladder and beat everyone there, but if you don't pass first round in tournaments because of your nervousess really is the same as everyother one that lose always in the first one.
All the other abilities that impact the result of the game, are important and cannot be underrated. In fact mental strenght is one of the more important abilities in any competition. Specially the 1 vs 1 ones. Sorry but Skill ALWAYS translate into wins. Maybe your problem is that you don't value all the skills the same way.
|
I get the feeling while some players handle some aspects of the game really really well, Mvp handles all aspects really well. He's able to switch through all forms of play. It's the combination of all factors that singles him out as the best player so far in SC2 imo.
|
On October 11 2012 03:19 partysnatcher wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 03:05 Ysellian wrote:On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end. What makes Rain and Stephano more enjoyable than MVP? Honest question, because I feel these two players in particular have plenty of similarities in their play style. A defensive macro orientated strategy focusing more on out thinking their opponents than out microing / out multitasking their opponents. (with even the occasional cheese thrown into the mix) My favorite part of Rain's play is his approach to engagements, the way he chooses his concaves and sets up his damage (storms or colossus). I enjoy the way he has reinvented P by using Zealots as his opportunity unit and by reducing the sentry count. Other than that, I agree that his skillset overlaps with MVP ("bulletproof" builds, great decision making etc). As for Stephano, he is a macro and build beast, and there's a reason why Jaedong himself expressed enthusiasm for his style. I'm not a huge fan of watching Stephanos games, but I like that he exists because he has perfected a niche.
My favorite part of Rain's play is how he lost to mvp this morning.
My favorite part of Stephano's play is how he isn't even in the GSL.
My favorite part of Jaedong's play is that he dropped to Code B after getting a free seed.
My favorite part of mvp's play is that he is the only bonjwa today.
|
On October 11 2012 04:26 partysnatcher wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:16 mrtomjones wrote:On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end. You call him overrated and for ages I have been voting against him myself. But how can you justify calling him overrated when he makes 2 GSL finals in a row, while having severe problems with his wrists? which don't allow him to practice as he would want to. You were obviously an upset fanboy. I am not a big MVP fan but he is simply amazing and no one, and I repeat NO ONE can come close to claiming they are better SC2 players over the life of the game so far than him. MC and Nestea would be the only other ones who had such sustained dominance and Nestea is basically gone and MC is simply a good Protoss now who can turn it on at times. Your posts and reasoning are quite laughable too. How can you be the most winning(Then AND now) player ever by a long shot and not the best? Get over yourself. I call him overrated not because of his performances, but because of the amount of emotional worship he receives, despite people being unable to point out any distinct strengths besides pure mindgames. The wrist problems I hear a lot of talk about, but MVP keeps playing and winning high-APM games, so until he starts conceding matches or seeming untrained, it looks like he really has no big problems (TLO had to stop playing completely) If you want to use wins only as argument for success, then how about this? http://sc2earnings.com/?year=2012 (Stephano #1, MVP #6). Anyway this is getting emotional and fanboyish again so I'm just going to peace out.
This post is easy countered by this! http://sc2earnings.com/?year=2011,2010,2012 (from the same site BTW)
Oh and guess who has less tournament apparences.
|
On October 11 2012 04:31 renaissanceMAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end. See you could have made an actual argument for yourself if you would have left out this last part; really just makes you look like a moron. We celebrate him because he is the greatest, and there's really no other way to refute that when you look at the simple facts. you say MMA has better decision making? why is he currently in code A? MC? he's not even in the gsl right now. Everyone has the right to like certain players, and there's nothing wrong with that, but when you come in and say that MVP is overrated and support your argument with players like MMA/MC (not even going to go through the whole list) and continue to refute the simple fact that MVP holds the best record in Starcraft... + Show Spoiler +bro you either trollin' or u dumbbbbb Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:26 partysnatcher wrote:On October 11 2012 04:16 mrtomjones wrote:On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end. You call him overrated and for ages I have been voting against him myself. But how can you justify calling him overrated when he makes 2 GSL finals in a row, while having severe problems with his wrists? which don't allow him to practice as he would want to. You were obviously an upset fanboy. I am not a big MVP fan but he is simply amazing and no one, and I repeat NO ONE can come close to claiming they are better SC2 players over the life of the game so far than him. MC and Nestea would be the only other ones who had such sustained dominance and Nestea is basically gone and MC is simply a good Protoss now who can turn it on at times. Your posts and reasoning are quite laughable too. How can you be the most winning(Then AND now) player ever by a long shot and not the best? Get over yourself. I call him overrated not because of his performances, but because of the amount of emotional worship he receives, despite people being unable to point out any distinct strengths besides pure mindgames. The wrist problems I hear a lot of talk about, but MVP keeps playing and winning high-APM games, so until he starts conceding matches or seeming untrained, it looks like he really has no big problems (TLO had to stop playing completely) If you want to use wins only as argument for success, then how about this? http://sc2earnings.com/?year=2012 (Stephano #1, MVP #6). Anyway this is getting emotional and fanboyish again so I'm just going to peace out. + Show Spoiler +this just makes me thing you're even dumber than your previous post
Your post is just a collection of how much I suck and how great MVP is. You seem to think MVP is in a different league from MC, which is of course wrong. (MC has won more money) In general, you argument like a child, so it's really difficult for me to take you seriously.
|
I think some people here look at these games and players too shallow. I read things like "Mvp is not good mechanically", "Mvp doesn't have MKP's micro or Bombers macro etc."
It is not at all about that. This is Gsl Code S. The best of the best. The highest level. All this guys know how to macro properly, all this guys know how to micro/engage... You don't just win by playing straight up macro every single time, or by relying on great micro/positioning, that just isn't enough at this level.
The biggest difference is in the head, the mindset. Mvp knows how to win and that's why he is the best.
Just look at the last game, or even better, the last game of his last gsl finals with Squirtle. He knows how to choose build order, he knows exactly how he stands in the game (ahead/behind) and when something needs to be done to get back in the game and win, he will in most cases deliver...
|
ahhhhhhh.. nice results.. will be a sweet finals.
XD
|
On October 11 2012 03:56 partysnatcher wrote:
MVP however, plays very well in this format. He is good at preparing for opponents, he is an excellent "poker player", both in the hand he shows and how he reads his opponent. He is excellent at the mindgame / nerve aspect of BOx-sets. He has played for years in a tournament that has been Terran dominated, and he is extremely good at TvT. So you could say, while Stephano is poorly suited for GSL, MVP has been very well suited for GSL.
I'd just like to point out that MVP has also won MLG, WCG, and IEM, all of which are much different formats than the GSL.
|
Fun fact: when MVP wins the GSL he will have more earnings than MC. As to your main point, if the best player(and thus most skilled) is not the consistent player who wins then I don't know what a best player looks like. A player can have the best mechanics yet not be able to handle the mind games another player uses to win. This would not make the more mechanically sound player the better player, especially if they could not win.
In short, the player who wins with more consistency is the better player, despite your dislike of them. I do hope you will come around when MVP wins to celebrate with the rest of us.
Quick edit: MvP has the most winnings in 2012 currently,
|
As a matter of fact, the most winning player is the best player. Winning is the only way to determine who´s the best. You can´t be the best if you don´t win. It´s obvious that different players have different strenghs and weaknesses. But the player who makes the most of his abilities in order to win is clearly the best player.
This is competition, not some sort of kindergarten where you get something for trying to win with a certain style or entertaining. Winning is the only thing which matters to determine a players skill and individual sucess.
Here´s an analogy for you Partysnatcher:
Usain Bolt won 6 gold medals because he´s the fastest man on the planet.
Barcelona won nearly everything in soccer in the past 4 years because they played the best soccer in that period of time.
You can´t possibly argue that these teams/people aren´t the best and just the most winning. That would be ridiculous. They win because they are the best.
And the same thing is true for MVP. He won most stuff because he is the best.
|
Interesting player and best player are not the same folks
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
