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Standard LR rules apply: No balance whining, no KeSPA vs. GomTV inciting, no excessive derailing ESPECIALLY when games are on. This is not a thread for you to argue with other people. |
On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds.
So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ?
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On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ?
Where did he say that they mean nothing?
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On October 11 2012 06:24 Dodgin wrote:
It's so sad that being in 6 GSL finals overshadows all of Mvp's achievements outside the GSL, where he also has the most premier tournament wins of any player. " Only good in the GSL! " yeah, not really. Waxangel didn't even predict him to make it out of the open bracket at IEM and yet he wins the whole tournament, Mvp had like a 10 minute break between the semis and finals, still crushes Nerchio. He is not all about preparation, he also has the raw skill.
It really is ridiculous that people say that. For lan tournaments besides GSL he won Blizzcon, WCG (and the more impressive WCG Korea), an MLG (and took top 4 at another), an IEM, and Gainward. Then there are 4 online tournaments that he did very well in. 3 he won and the other 1 he got 2nd place. MVP is good in every type of tournament.
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i think it's so awesome how MVP picked the perfect name for himself when he was still playing a game in which he clearly was not the MVP. lol this dude is just ridiculous at sc2 though. i think he's gonna beat Life. Life is a stylistic player and MVP has a week and a half to study his games (including the very recent ZvTs against MKP and Taeja) which should give him an edge, plus MVP has more experience in this situation than all of startale combined.
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On October 11 2012 01:29 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 00:39 partysnatcher wrote:
MVP is in my opinion one of the most overrated stars out there. Like Polt, his skillset simply doesn't draw me in as a fan, and most people who are a fan of him, usually uses his "amount of wins" as argument for why.
I personally hope he gets crushed in the finals. This is such a pathetic post. Far from being overrated, mvp is actually underrated. Every season, every round, every match people say its the end for him. And every season, every round, every match mvp gives 200% and cements himself as the greatest player of all time. People are mvp's fan because 1. He is always humble. 2. He is always fun to watch. 3. He has a fascinating background story. 4. He is an all around awesome guy. 5. He has a killer smile. 6. He can suck people's soul when his mouth opens. 7. He has 97 GSL Code S wins. 8. He is in his 6th GSL final. 9. He has 4 championships. 10. He is the first WCG winner for sc2. 11. He is the main innovator of builds that everyone else copies. 12. He won season 2, and is in the finals this season with extreme amounts of pain in his neck and wrists.
I agree that Mvp is underrated. People say Rain is the best even after Mvp beat him. People were saying Squirtle was the best, and Mvp beat him.
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MVP please win your 5th GSL.
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On October 11 2012 06:49 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. Also, MVP had a chance to see 7 of rains PvT's a day prior to their game with 3 of those games of last showing how to beat Rain.
MVP has played 100's of TvP's since starting SC2 that Rain could watch. Your argument is terrible. MVP won today and is obviously still the best in the world whether or not he wins this next match. Two finals in a row is crazy especially against people who are so hot at the time(Squirtle, parting, Rain etc). I would much rather many others won as I am fairly neutral on MVP but he simply wins. Maybe next GSL Rain or someone else will win and they will start up but making arguments for Rain is just as silly as making arguments for Taeja or anyone else ESF or Kespa that is out of GSL now.
I keep hoping for Squirtle, Parting, or Taeja to finally take the championship but it looks like I have to keep waiting :/
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I wish Rain and Squirtle would participate as a team in a 2v2 tournament.
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I find it funny how people can call Mvp overrated, when his skille are being called into question all the time.
In my opinion, to be the best at a sport, or anything really, it's the sum of your skills that matter. Thats what Mvp has, when it's all summed up he's the best and therefore has the most wins. If the skill are mechanics, multi tasking, nerve controls, game understandig, preperation etc doesn't matter. Even if Mvp wasn't the top 5 in the world in any of those categories, he still apparantly is the best player. Maybe those who are nr.1 in any of those categories aren't even among the top 50 in some of those others and thats what's hindering them from being a champion.
I almost never root for Mvp, dont know why, but he's never caught my fanboy heart. However, give credit where credit is due.
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On October 11 2012 04:56 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:39 redviper wrote:On October 11 2012 03:19 partysnatcher wrote:On October 11 2012 03:05 Ysellian wrote:On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end. What makes Rain and Stephano more enjoyable than MVP? Honest question, because I feel these two players in particular have plenty of similarities in their play style. A defensive macro orientated strategy focusing more on out thinking their opponents than out microing / out multitasking their opponents. (with even the occasional cheese thrown into the mix) My favorite part of Rain's play is his approach to engagements, the way he chooses his concaves and sets up his damage (storms or colossus). I enjoy the way he has reinvented P by using Zealots as his opportunity unit and by reducing the sentry count. Other than that, I agree that his skillset overlaps with MVP ("bulletproof" builds, great decision making etc). As for Stephano, he is a macro and build beast, and there's a reason why Jaedong himself expressed enthusiasm for his style. I'm not a huge fan of watching Stephanos games, but I like that he exists because he has perfected a niche. My favorite part of Rain's play is how he lost to mvp this morning. My favorite part of Stephano's play is how he isn't even in the GSL. My favorite part of Jaedong's play is that he dropped to Code B after getting a free seed. My favorite part of mvp's play is that he is the only bonjwa today. Only he isn't? lol I didnt know Nada, oov and savior died.
Old bonjwas don't have to die for new ones to come... by that logic, Nada, oov and savior cannot all be alive.
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On October 11 2012 07:18 Gorilla23 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 01:29 redviper wrote:On October 11 2012 00:39 partysnatcher wrote:
MVP is in my opinion one of the most overrated stars out there. Like Polt, his skillset simply doesn't draw me in as a fan, and most people who are a fan of him, usually uses his "amount of wins" as argument for why.
I personally hope he gets crushed in the finals. This is such a pathetic post. Far from being overrated, mvp is actually underrated. Every season, every round, every match people say its the end for him. And every season, every round, every match mvp gives 200% and cements himself as the greatest player of all time. People are mvp's fan because 1. He is always humble. 2. He is always fun to watch. 3. He has a fascinating background story. 4. He is an all around awesome guy. 5. He has a killer smile. 6. He can suck people's soul when his mouth opens. 7. He has 97 GSL Code S wins. 8. He is in his 6th GSL final. 9. He has 4 championships. 10. He is the first WCG winner for sc2. 11. He is the main innovator of builds that everyone else copies. 12. He won season 2, and is in the finals this season with extreme amounts of pain in his neck and wrists. I agree that Mvp is underrated. People say Rain is the best even after Mvp beat him. People were saying Squirtle was the best, and Mvp beat him.
Hey now you know how people are on teamliquid  Personally, I believe that Rain might be having some good results lately but to be the best he has a lot of proving ground. He has to not only win championships, he also has to maintain consistency. MVP has done that but he's also played a lot longer than rain too. In other words, if Rain is still as dominant as he is today within a year or so's time then I believe he will then be an eligible candidate to be called "the best". While MVP's titles do hold weight, they didn't include the best "starcraft" players in the world. I can't wait to see what the GSL looks like after one year time to see which current SC2 pros will be still standing and which Kespa pros have entered.
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http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments_Medalists
I think this is all we need.
MVP has more non-GSL 1st places then anyone else - well, same amount as Stephano, but WCS Eu had no Koreans so take from that what you want - despite travelling significantly less. People who say he is only good at GSL(and BoX where he can prepare) are pretty silly.
It's so easy to say MVP is the best Starcraft 2 player, because well, there's evidence available at every turn.
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On October 11 2012 08:01 snafoo wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments_MedalistsI think this is all we need. MVP has more non-GSL 1st places then anyone else - well, same amount as Stephano, but WCS Eu had no Koreans so take from that what you want - despite travelling significantly less. People who say he is only good at GSL(and BoX where he can prepare) are pretty silly. It's so easy to say MVP is the best Starcraft 2 player, because well, there's evidence available at every turn.
That doesn't list the gainward tournament which should definitely be counted as a premier event. It wasn't online (besides the qualifiers) and had an amazing player pool (at the time). So even counting WCS EU MVP still has more.
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On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
nLets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds.
Nobody is saying he's a Bonjwa becasue of beating Rain you crazy nerd.
Nobody would rate Rain that highly. Don't be so god damn elitist.
We're talking about his 6 GSL finals, 4 (possibly 5) victories, and his 14 top 4 Premier Tournament finishes, including 8 golds.
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On October 11 2012 08:35 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
nLets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. Nobody is saying he's a Bonjwa becasue of beating Rain you crazy nerd. Nobody would rate Rain that highly. Don't be so god damn elitist. We're talking about his 6 GSL finals, 4 (possibly 5) victories, and his 14 top 4 Premier Tournament finishes, including 8 golds.
Agreed, if MVP isnt declared bonjwa of WOL no one will ever be bonjwa ever. MVP is as much bonjwa as you can possibly become, its just nostalgia broodwar fanboys who would say otherwise. (yes i have followed broodwar since 2006 and watched almost every single game but nostalgia doesnt beat facts)
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If anyone is worthy of the bonjwa title it clearly is MVP. As for the finals I have no idea who will win. I want MVP to win because he's been one of my favorite players since the beginning. Life has been preparing for terrans for a while and has eliminated both MKP and Taeja but that means that MVP has a lot of games to study and prepare builds for life's style. Either way it should be a great finals and I hope MVP can pull of the win.
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On October 10 2012 19:45 MrCon wrote:
He has 4 stalkers, go kil lthe colossi !
Ho god stop random bitbybiting ffs
strong grasp of the pvt matchup.
i hate lr threads as much as i love them.
it's a love-hate thing.
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I haven't followed the SC2 scene that much yet. Have the korean media used the B word yet? There have been thousands of B word debates in TL even before SC2 but no one gets to say who's the B and who's not except the korean media. We can all shut up until then.
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On October 11 2012 03:56 partysnatcher wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 03:37 Fusilero wrote:On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote:
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly:
3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end. "The most-winning. Not the best"? What the fuck kind of statement is that, flash isn't the best BW player only the "most-winning", Michael Jordon isn't the best basketball player only the "most-winning", iG aren't the best dota team only the "most-winning" seriously how do you quantify best as not "most-winning"? If a player has won more than everyone else he's the best, not this wishy washy "Oh he's actually better even though he lost" bullshit that's always spread around LR threads yes perhaps MMA is the better multitasker, perhaps taeja can macro better, perhaps rain is better at picking fights but there's much more to the game than that one aspect, enjoy that one aspect and cheer for that player fine whatever but don't say stupid shit like "Most-winning" that's an irrelevent phrase that just means best. Yes I am getting hung up on one phrase but that one phrase agitated me so much I had to respond. An example: When Stephano was asked about participating in Code S, he said he didn't want to play there, because he wouldn't do well in that format (preparing for one single player for a week). MVP however, plays very well in this format. He is good at preparing for opponents, he is an excellent "poker player", both in the hand he shows and how he reads his opponent. He is excellent at the mindgame / nerve aspect of BOx-sets. He has played for years in a tournament that has been Terran dominated, and he is extremely good at TvT. So you could say, while Stephano is poorly suited for GSL, MVP has been very well suited for GSL. However, I'm watching SC2 for people who can perform superhuman feats of control, coordination and creativity. The control and creativity are what I consider the "skills" in SC2, not the opponent preparation abilities and intraset mindgames, which are MVPs strengths. Hero is extremely talented, but he often screws things up because of nerves. Stephano, however, is so far the mostwinning player in 2012, before MVP, but I don't consider him the best SC2 player. Skill doesn't always translate into wins, and vice versa.
You must be confusing MVP with Nestea. Nestea is someone who is good at preparing for BoX with specific strategies and mindset. MVP, often times, just goes with the flow of games and uses his instincts (we call this "Star Sense"). Just like the last game against Rain which MVP "sensed" that DTs might be on their way. I seriously don't understand where this misconception about MVP is coming from.
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Dont you guys have anything better to do? Seriously, some people are supporting MVP, then LET THEM BE.......
Some others support rain, and SO BE IT.....
Seriously, grow up...
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EPT
