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Standard LR rules apply: No balance whining, no KeSPA vs. GomTV inciting, no excessive derailing ESPECIALLY when games are on. This is not a thread for you to argue with other people. |
On October 11 2012 11:23 rogzardo wrote:
'Greats' come and go. Lots of players are hailed as the greatest, but its always fleeting. Nestea. MC. Taeja.
MVP is the only player to pwn again and again, consistently, for the past two years.
I'd be so homo if he'd only ask.
theres been players that have stuck aorund too, MKP probably the 2nd most consistent
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On October 11 2012 11:28 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 11:23 rogzardo wrote:
'Greats' come and go. Lots of players are hailed as the greatest, but its always fleeting. Nestea. MC. Taeja.
MVP is the only player to pwn again and again, consistently, for the past two years.
I'd be so homo if he'd only ask. theres been players that have stuck aorund too, MKP probably the 2nd most consistent
1 ro8 in a year? Not really
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For some reason, I think that the Elephants switching over to StarCraft 2 make it more likely for Mvp to win.
Why? Well, it becomes that much more difficult for Mvp. Odds are stacked against him...
which means he wins. What? o.O I don't understand it myself, but that's the King for you.
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On October 11 2012 12:01 zerious wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 11:28 L3g3nd_ wrote:On October 11 2012 11:23 rogzardo wrote:
'Greats' come and go. Lots of players are hailed as the greatest, but its always fleeting. Nestea. MC. Taeja.
MVP is the only player to pwn again and again, consistently, for the past two years.
I'd be so homo if he'd only ask. theres been players that have stuck aorund too, MKP probably the 2nd most consistent 1 ro8 in a year? Not really
well if youre going exclusively on GSL results then okay he hasnt done much of late, but hes won 2 MLGs this year (against top koreans) and done very well in a bunch of other non GSL tournaments
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On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time.
And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3.
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On October 11 2012 12:12 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 12:01 zerious wrote:On October 11 2012 11:28 L3g3nd_ wrote:On October 11 2012 11:23 rogzardo wrote:
'Greats' come and go. Lots of players are hailed as the greatest, but its always fleeting. Nestea. MC. Taeja.
MVP is the only player to pwn again and again, consistently, for the past two years.
I'd be so homo if he'd only ask. theres been players that have stuck aorund too, MKP probably the 2nd most consistent 1 ro8 in a year? Not really well if youre going exclusively on GSL results then okay he hasnt done much of late, but hes won 2 MLGs this year (against top koreans) and done very well in a bunch of other non GSL tournaments
I think we can call MKP consistently good. But to be considered great, GSL is still the proving ground (not necessarily wins but at least deep runs). I would put MC as being the 2nd most consistent over the 2 year span.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On October 11 2012 12:17 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 12:12 L3g3nd_ wrote:On October 11 2012 12:01 zerious wrote:On October 11 2012 11:28 L3g3nd_ wrote:On October 11 2012 11:23 rogzardo wrote:
'Greats' come and go. Lots of players are hailed as the greatest, but its always fleeting. Nestea. MC. Taeja.
MVP is the only player to pwn again and again, consistently, for the past two years.
I'd be so homo if he'd only ask. theres been players that have stuck aorund too, MKP probably the 2nd most consistent 1 ro8 in a year? Not really well if youre going exclusively on GSL results then okay he hasnt done much of late, but hes won 2 MLGs this year (against top koreans) and done very well in a bunch of other non GSL tournaments I think we can call MKP consistently good. But to be considered great, GSL is still the proving ground (not necessarily wins but at least deep runs). I would put MC as being the 2nd most consistent over the 2 year span.
MC was in code B, once :p
MKP's only stint in Code A was as runner up, lol.
But yeah, i think they're pretty comparable.
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On October 11 2012 12:12 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 12:01 zerious wrote:On October 11 2012 11:28 L3g3nd_ wrote:On October 11 2012 11:23 rogzardo wrote:
'Greats' come and go. Lots of players are hailed as the greatest, but its always fleeting. Nestea. MC. Taeja.
MVP is the only player to pwn again and again, consistently, for the past two years.
I'd be so homo if he'd only ask. theres been players that have stuck aorund too, MKP probably the 2nd most consistent 1 ro8 in a year? Not really well if youre going exclusively on GSL results then okay he hasnt done much of late, but hes won 2 MLGs this year (against top koreans) and done very well in a bunch of other non GSL tournaments
Should that second spot not go to MC instead ? MKP has had a very rough long period inbetween results unlike MC who just lives on a plane and makes a good living of it.
ah nevermind already said 
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Part of me wants to see MVP get 4-0'd so Blizzard will patch the game again.
The other part of me wants to see him win 4-3 in the most stacked season of Code S..with the most underpowered race.. with the most terrible physical condition..against a favored opponent.
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On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3.
The facts are that at the time SC2 came out the absolute best players were still playing BW. People with BW background that switched during that time were mostly B-Teamers and practice partners.
And no being good at SC2 doesn't make you good at BW since the latter is a more demanding game skill-wise (you might not agree though). We've had this discussion a million times already so it's pointless to start another one here.
What we've got now is the cream of the crop finally joining the ranks of the SC2 players and whether they all start owning face in the near future is irrelevant. It'll still benefit the metagame with so many dedicated players pouring in so rejoice!
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On October 11 2012 13:42 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 12:12 L3g3nd_ wrote:On October 11 2012 12:01 zerious wrote:On October 11 2012 11:28 L3g3nd_ wrote:On October 11 2012 11:23 rogzardo wrote:
'Greats' come and go. Lots of players are hailed as the greatest, but its always fleeting. Nestea. MC. Taeja.
MVP is the only player to pwn again and again, consistently, for the past two years.
I'd be so homo if he'd only ask. theres been players that have stuck aorund too, MKP probably the 2nd most consistent 1 ro8 in a year? Not really well if youre going exclusively on GSL results then okay he hasnt done much of late, but hes won 2 MLGs this year (against top koreans) and done very well in a bunch of other non GSL tournaments Should that second spot not go to MC instead ? MKP has had a very rough long period inbetween results unlike MC who just lives on a plane and makes a good living of it. ah nevermind already said
mc had a pretty rough time too (it was shorter duration but deeper)
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On October 11 2012 13:50 revoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3. The facts are that at the time SC2 came out the absolute best players were still playing BW. People with BW background that switched during that time were mostly B-Teamers and practice partners. And no being good at SC2 doesn't make you good at BW since the latter is a more demanding game skill-wise (you might not agree though). We've had this discussion a million times already so it's pointless to start another one here. What we've got now is the cream of the crop finally joining the ranks of the SC2 players and whether they all start owning face in the near future is irrelevant. It'll still benefit the metagame with so many dedicated players pouring in so rejoice!
if it were this true, you'd expect the best bw players to be doing the best in sc2 out of those who recently switched, which does not seem the case quite yet
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On October 11 2012 13:54 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 13:42 Lysanias wrote:On October 11 2012 12:12 L3g3nd_ wrote:On October 11 2012 12:01 zerious wrote:On October 11 2012 11:28 L3g3nd_ wrote:On October 11 2012 11:23 rogzardo wrote:
'Greats' come and go. Lots of players are hailed as the greatest, but its always fleeting. Nestea. MC. Taeja.
MVP is the only player to pwn again and again, consistently, for the past two years.
I'd be so homo if he'd only ask. theres been players that have stuck aorund too, MKP probably the 2nd most consistent 1 ro8 in a year? Not really well if youre going exclusively on GSL results then okay he hasnt done much of late, but hes won 2 MLGs this year (against top koreans) and done very well in a bunch of other non GSL tournaments Should that second spot not go to MC instead ? MKP has had a very rough long period inbetween results unlike MC who just lives on a plane and makes a good living of it. ah nevermind already said mc had a pretty rough time too (it was shorter duration but deeper)
True but he just wins a foreign tournament and get's his code S spot back 
There's offcourse also Nestea, if you talk about consistant well until next season that is.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On October 11 2012 13:56 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 13:50 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3. The facts are that at the time SC2 came out the absolute best players were still playing BW. People with BW background that switched during that time were mostly B-Teamers and practice partners. And no being good at SC2 doesn't make you good at BW since the latter is a more demanding game skill-wise (you might not agree though). We've had this discussion a million times already so it's pointless to start another one here. What we've got now is the cream of the crop finally joining the ranks of the SC2 players and whether they all start owning face in the near future is irrelevant. It'll still benefit the metagame with so many dedicated players pouring in so rejoice! if it were this true, you'd expect the best bw players to be doing the best in sc2 out of those who recently switched, which does not seem the case quite yet mechanics is not the determinant factor in transition speed. it's about learning the meta and all the outcomes and responses.
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On October 11 2012 14:05 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 13:56 opterown wrote:On October 11 2012 13:50 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3. The facts are that at the time SC2 came out the absolute best players were still playing BW. People with BW background that switched during that time were mostly B-Teamers and practice partners. And no being good at SC2 doesn't make you good at BW since the latter is a more demanding game skill-wise (you might not agree though). We've had this discussion a million times already so it's pointless to start another one here. What we've got now is the cream of the crop finally joining the ranks of the SC2 players and whether they all start owning face in the near future is irrelevant. It'll still benefit the metagame with so many dedicated players pouring in so rejoice! if it were this true, you'd expect the best bw players to be doing the best in sc2 out of those who recently switched, which does not seem the case quite yet mechanics is not the determinant factor in transition speed. it's about learning the meta and all the outcomes and responses.
Yes just what made them so great in BW.
What's your point ?
Isn't that the reason why people thought the big names would transition faster then there lesser team mates ? They have great mechanics but what makes them really special is there game sences and ability to addapt.
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On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3.
Thank you. There is only one SC2 scene. The Boxer vs JD/Flash scenario does hold true for Mvp as well.
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Australia1662 Posts
Enjoy your 1 game win over RAIN's 1st ever GSL tournament. RAIN is just warming up! xD
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On October 11 2012 13:50 revoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3. The facts are that at the time SC2 came out the absolute best players were still playing BW. People with BW background that switched during that time were mostly B-Teamers and practice partners. And no being good at SC2 doesn't make you good at BW since the latter is a more demanding game skill-wise (you might not agree though). We've had this discussion a million times already so it's pointless to start another one here. What we've got now is the cream of the crop finally joining the ranks of the SC2 players and whether they all start owning face in the near future is irrelevant. It'll still benefit the metagame with so many dedicated players pouring in so rejoice!
Sry but there's no such a thing as BW top players are gifted at RTS game in general. They are just gifted at BW. There's no guarantee that they will be top player in SC2. Just wait and see some of your beloved BW top players just dissappear and new one will rise. I will wait for BW's fanboys excuse about why those players can't do well.
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On October 11 2012 13:50 revoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3. The facts are that at the time SC2 came out the absolute best players were still playing BW. People with BW background that switched during that time were mostly B-Teamers and practice partners. And no being good at SC2 doesn't make you good at BW since the latter is a more demanding game skill-wise (you might not agree though). We've had this discussion a million times already so it's pointless to start another one here. What we've got now is the cream of the crop finally joining the ranks of the SC2 players and whether they all start owning face in the near future is irrelevant. It'll still benefit the metagame with so many dedicated players pouring in so rejoice!
I agree with you that Kespa players joining has upped the stakes and push the game play. BUT we cannot just ignore the success of Mvp previously just because Kespa players didn't change over. Meta changes and all around skills improve over time. It was players like Mvp, MKP, MC, Nestea would evolved the meta. You can't just look at the skills because I think if you take anyone in Code S now and have them go back to 2011 Jan Code S, you would likely see them dominating the tournament. The general level of micro and macro is so much better.
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On October 11 2012 15:01 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 13:50 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3. The facts are that at the time SC2 came out the absolute best players were still playing BW. People with BW background that switched during that time were mostly B-Teamers and practice partners. And no being good at SC2 doesn't make you good at BW since the latter is a more demanding game skill-wise (you might not agree though). We've had this discussion a million times already so it's pointless to start another one here. What we've got now is the cream of the crop finally joining the ranks of the SC2 players and whether they all start owning face in the near future is irrelevant. It'll still benefit the metagame with so many dedicated players pouring in so rejoice! Sry but there's no such a thing as BW top players are gifted at RTS game in general. They are just gifted at BW. There's no guarantee that they will be top player in SC2. Just wait and see some of your beloved BW top players just dissappear and new one will rise. I will wait for BW's fanboys excuse about why those players can't do well.
Very solid argument to make and one I actually support.
I do not think the best in BW will be the best in SC2. In saying that, most of the greats in BW, i think, will do great in SC2. Because both games require similar skill-sets.
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EPT
