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Standard LR rules apply: No balance whining, no KeSPA vs. GomTV inciting, no excessive derailing ESPECIALLY when games are on. This is not a thread for you to argue with other people. |
Well, losing against MVP is ok for the kespa players since MVP was the best kespa player to swich before the others, but i don't think the outcome will be the same if they play each other one or two months from now.
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On October 11 2012 01:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 00:39 partysnatcher wrote:
MVP is in my opinion one of the most overrated stars out there. Like Polt, his skillset simply doesn't draw me in as a fan, and most people who are a fan of him, usually uses his "amount of wins" as argument for why.
I personally hope he gets crushed in the finals. Nothing like good old forum logic. "He's overrated. Hope he gets crushed in the GSL FINALS
Haha, was thinking the same.
Good old forum logic. People using the term "overrated" about players placing high in tournaments (and now with the best player) instead of talking about those that didn't even make the cut and calling them "overrated".
To partysnatcher: The reason why most of us like Mvp because he, again and again, shows that he can play any style and adapt. There is no "meta adapting" to Mvp's style because he has no style.
He will cheese, play macro, go bio or go mech. You never know what build he will go for and that's why he is so good. You can't study Mvp's style to beat him because there is no style. Like Artosis said "his style is winning".
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On October 11 2012 18:08 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 01:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On October 11 2012 00:39 partysnatcher wrote:
MVP is in my opinion one of the most overrated stars out there. Like Polt, his skillset simply doesn't draw me in as a fan, and most people who are a fan of him, usually uses his "amount of wins" as argument for why.
I personally hope he gets crushed in the finals. Nothing like good old forum logic. "He's overrated. Hope he gets crushed in the GSL FINALS Haha, was thinking the same. Good old forum logic. People using the term "overrated" about players placing high in tournaments (and now with the best player) instead of talking about those that didn't even make the cut and calling them "overrated". To partysnatcher: The reason why most of us like Mvp because he, again and again, shows that he can play any style and adapt. There is no "meta adapting" to Mvp's style because he has no style. He will cheese, play macro, go bio or go mech. You never know what build he will go for and that's why he is so good. You can't study Mvp's style to beat him because there is no style. Like Artosis said " his style is winning".
MVP in one, simple sentence.
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MVP is my all time favorite player because as Artosis so eloquently said.. his style is winning.
He can adapt to any situation and make better decisions than his opponent more often than not.. and in a Bo-X, that is what separates the great players from MVP.
When are the finals anyway? I hope MVP wins and then takes the time he needs to get the medical treatment he so desperately requires.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On October 11 2012 14:08 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 14:05 oneofthem wrote:On October 11 2012 13:56 opterown wrote:On October 11 2012 13:50 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3. The facts are that at the time SC2 came out the absolute best players were still playing BW. People with BW background that switched during that time were mostly B-Teamers and practice partners. And no being good at SC2 doesn't make you good at BW since the latter is a more demanding game skill-wise (you might not agree though). We've had this discussion a million times already so it's pointless to start another one here. What we've got now is the cream of the crop finally joining the ranks of the SC2 players and whether they all start owning face in the near future is irrelevant. It'll still benefit the metagame with so many dedicated players pouring in so rejoice! if it were this true, you'd expect the best bw players to be doing the best in sc2 out of those who recently switched, which does not seem the case quite yet mechanics is not the determinant factor in transition speed. it's about learning the meta and all the outcomes and responses. Yes just what made them so great in BW. What's your point ? Isn't that the reason why people thought the big names would transition faster then there lesser team mates ? They have great mechanics but what makes them really special is there game sences and ability to addapt.
the bigger names do tend to improve faster. look at the rankings of the mlg invitational. however, it's a skill ceiling vs speed of adaption problem. overall skill in bw plays a bigger role in the former, while in adaption speed it matters less.
you could say having better coach knowledge is a key factor too.
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wow so many Mvp hate, calling him, of all things, overrated.
are you fucking serious? If anything, MKP is overrated, Taeja is overrated, neither of them have a single GSL win.
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Rain is amazing, but the GSL is Mvp's house!
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awwwwwww MvP <333333333333 well i was hoping for GSL final of rain vs mvp .... but TvZ is still the best
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Are there interviews of the winner? If so, link pls?
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"Winners gonna win" - Mvp
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On October 11 2012 00:39 partysnatcher wrote:
MVP is in my opinion one of the most overrated stars out there. Like Polt, his skillset simply doesn't draw me in as a fan, and most people who are a fan of him, usually uses his "amount of wins" as argument for why.
I personally hope he gets crushed in the finals.
overrated ---> fans use his amount of wins for why he's good
what the fuck am i reading
4 time gsl winner 6 time gsl finalist
best performing sc2 player ever so far
this has to be a troll
i know that post is old but i had to reply to it
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Mvp, the crusher of all dreams and hype trains.
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On October 11 2012 15:01 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 13:50 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3. The facts are that at the time SC2 came out the absolute best players were still playing BW. People with BW background that switched during that time were mostly B-Teamers and practice partners. And no being good at SC2 doesn't make you good at BW since the latter is a more demanding game skill-wise (you might not agree though). We've had this discussion a million times already so it's pointless to start another one here. What we've got now is the cream of the crop finally joining the ranks of the SC2 players and whether they all start owning face in the near future is irrelevant. It'll still benefit the metagame with so many dedicated players pouring in so rejoice! Sry but there's no such a thing as BW top players are gifted at RTS game in general. They are just gifted at BW. There's no guarantee that they will be top player in SC2. Just wait and see some of your beloved BW top players just dissappear and new one will rise. I will wait for BW's fanboys excuse about why those players can't do well.
I don't mean to burst your bubble but maybe you should go take a look at this weeks code a results and think about how long they have been playing SC2 "full time".
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All this BW talk. BW and SC2 are two different games like numerous people have said before. I was D+ terran on Iccup server (BW) and now I'm only platinum in SC2 (random race). I remember before people were saying that if you could get D+ on Iccup you can get masters on SC2, but they are two different games. There are no mules, larva inject, or chronoboost in BW.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On October 12 2012 06:49 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 15:01 Wildmoon wrote:On October 11 2012 13:50 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3. The facts are that at the time SC2 came out the absolute best players were still playing BW. People with BW background that switched during that time were mostly B-Teamers and practice partners. And no being good at SC2 doesn't make you good at BW since the latter is a more demanding game skill-wise (you might not agree though). We've had this discussion a million times already so it's pointless to start another one here. What we've got now is the cream of the crop finally joining the ranks of the SC2 players and whether they all start owning face in the near future is irrelevant. It'll still benefit the metagame with so many dedicated players pouring in so rejoice! Sry but there's no such a thing as BW top players are gifted at RTS game in general. They are just gifted at BW. There's no guarantee that they will be top player in SC2. Just wait and see some of your beloved BW top players just dissappear and new one will rise. I will wait for BW's fanboys excuse about why those players can't do well. I don't mean to burst your bubble but maybe you should go take a look at this weeks code a results and think about how long they have been playing SC2 "full time".
yes, BW players did well, but that's not unexpected. what is unexpected is how the top of the top in BW are not quite top of the top of the BW players who recently switched yet.
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On October 11 2012 17:52 Elroi wrote:
Well, losing against MVP is ok for the kespa players since MVP was the best kespa player to swich before the others, but i don't think the outcome will be the same if they play each other one or two months from now.
your probably right but MVP also has terrible wrist problems for over a year now, really shows how scary MVP has consistently been since the beginning.
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On October 12 2012 06:49 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 15:01 Wildmoon wrote:On October 11 2012 13:50 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3. The facts are that at the time SC2 came out the absolute best players were still playing BW. People with BW background that switched during that time were mostly B-Teamers and practice partners. And no being good at SC2 doesn't make you good at BW since the latter is a more demanding game skill-wise (you might not agree though). We've had this discussion a million times already so it's pointless to start another one here. What we've got now is the cream of the crop finally joining the ranks of the SC2 players and whether they all start owning face in the near future is irrelevant. It'll still benefit the metagame with so many dedicated players pouring in so rejoice! Sry but there's no such a thing as BW top players are gifted at RTS game in general. They are just gifted at BW. There's no guarantee that they will be top player in SC2. Just wait and see some of your beloved BW top players just dissappear and new one will rise. I will wait for BW's fanboys excuse about why those players can't do well. I don't mean to burst your bubble but maybe you should go take a look at this weeks code a results and think about how long they have been playing SC2 "full time".
Look at what happpened to the other Code S seed this season.
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On October 11 2012 18:20 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 18:08 papaz wrote:On October 11 2012 01:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On October 11 2012 00:39 partysnatcher wrote:
MVP is in my opinion one of the most overrated stars out there. Like Polt, his skillset simply doesn't draw me in as a fan, and most people who are a fan of him, usually uses his "amount of wins" as argument for why.
I personally hope he gets crushed in the finals. Nothing like good old forum logic. "He's overrated. Hope he gets crushed in the GSL FINALS Haha, was thinking the same. Good old forum logic. People using the term "overrated" about players placing high in tournaments (and now with the best player) instead of talking about those that didn't even make the cut and calling them "overrated". To partysnatcher: The reason why most of us like Mvp because he, again and again, shows that he can play any style and adapt. There is no "meta adapting" to Mvp's style because he has no style. He will cheese, play macro, go bio or go mech. You never know what build he will go for and that's why he is so good. You can't study Mvp's style to beat him because there is no style. Like Artosis said " his style is winning". MVP in one, simple sentence.
And some people can't stand this, so they invent reasons to hate on him and discredit him.
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On October 12 2012 08:51 snafoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 06:49 BlazeFury01 wrote:On October 11 2012 15:01 Wildmoon wrote:On October 11 2012 13:50 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 12:15 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 11:11 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:56 vthree wrote:On October 11 2012 10:40 revoN wrote:On October 11 2012 06:50 will216 wrote:On October 11 2012 06:35 TAMinator wrote:
Rain had to play OSL and GSL back to back
Rain played less SC2 than MVP
Rain had less time to prepare to due point 1
Still went to ace match
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the B word for MVP you crazy nerds. So, GSL 4 titles don't mean shit to you ? Consider the length of GSL as compared to say OSL. There wasn't anyone in SC2 who was dominant over a long period of time. Also he got his 4 wins before the Age of Elephants came about. Even if MVP wins this one I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be the last time he ever does (granted KeSPA players' continuous participation in the GSL and their skills getting better and better as time goes by). Anyway it's still too early to call anyone the best player that ever touched the game. People have been saying that bout Nestea and MC as well... Don't get me wrong. I still think MVP is one of the best players at the moment, though his play is too inconsistent to call him the absolute best. Mvp won his first GSL back in Jan 2011. If he wins this GSL, the time span will be 22 months which is a decent amount of time. And you can't downplay his achievements by saying it was before the Age of Elephants. It would be saying that Boxer wouldn't have won if JD and Flash played earlier. You can only be compare to the competition you had during that time. There's also all the time in-between his wins where his play showed some inconsistencies. And it's different from Boxer vs JD/Flash. Back then there was only one scene - BW. I'm not downplaying MVP's achievements. You are right bout one thing - you can only compare to the competition you had during that time. Consider that the absolute best was still playing BW during that time. And BW and SC2 are different games with similarities. Being good in one does not necessarily mean you will be just as good in the other. It would be saying that since Stephano is really good in SC2, he would have been very good in BW. So Idra was only really best foreigner in the late stages of BW because Stephano was playing WC3. The facts are that at the time SC2 came out the absolute best players were still playing BW. People with BW background that switched during that time were mostly B-Teamers and practice partners. And no being good at SC2 doesn't make you good at BW since the latter is a more demanding game skill-wise (you might not agree though). We've had this discussion a million times already so it's pointless to start another one here. What we've got now is the cream of the crop finally joining the ranks of the SC2 players and whether they all start owning face in the near future is irrelevant. It'll still benefit the metagame with so many dedicated players pouring in so rejoice! Sry but there's no such a thing as BW top players are gifted at RTS game in general. They are just gifted at BW. There's no guarantee that they will be top player in SC2. Just wait and see some of your beloved BW top players just dissappear and new one will rise. I will wait for BW's fanboys excuse about why those players can't do well. I don't mean to burst your bubble but maybe you should go take a look at this weeks code a results and think about how long they have been playing SC2 "full time". Look at what happpened to the other Code S seed this season.
A lot of people (including myself) didn't even think Jaedong deserved that seed and it should have went to RoRo. Anyway, what point are you trying to make? The Kespa players have played SC2 full time for how long now? Approx 2 months. They will improve in time and it is showing too. Btw Jaedong 2-0ed MC in the MLG Invitational.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
holy crap okay i just realised i won't be able to do the LR for the finals next week, sorry guys!
[and probably not any more in the next few weeks, a bit busy - i'll premake a few threads, feel free to get them up]
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EPT
