Standard LR rules apply: No balance whining, no KeSPA vs. GomTV inciting, no excessive derailing ESPECIALLY when games are on. This is not a thread for you to argue with other people.
On October 10 2012 22:36 Bagration wrote: Wow, IMMVP you are so damn good.
Many other Terrans have come and tried to take your position as #1 Terran over the years. MKP met you in the finals twice, but you beat them. Polt, Bomber, MMA, and Taeja. All tried to take the #1 Terran title from you, but you have outlasted them all. 6 GSL finals appearances, twice as many as the next highest, and twice as many titles as the next highest.
The Greatest
MVP has 4 GSL titles and a plethora of other titles under his belt(WCG,IEM,MLG,etc).
Until they(Polt,Bomber,MMA,Taeja) start to win those number of titles, then we can start talking.
I never liked how TL hyped up Taeja as the current " best Terran player in the world " when he hasn't win a GSL title yet.
Now the hype train for Taeja will now be slowed down.
People are always going to rush to the latest result and catapult that person upwards. MVP has had the highest korean-ELO peak, and currently holds the 4th highest international-ELO peak. Take that and combine it with the fact that he generally doesn't travel outside of korea, is a Blizzcon Champion, WCS Champion, MLG Champion and four-time GSL champion and it's ridiculous to even say that anyone else is as close to MVP in terms being "the greatest."
the only thing Mvp needed is to win the WCS Global at the end of the year (probably one of the last big WoL events to cap it off) but alas no Mvp there
He was sort of screwed out of that tournament due to his LG sponsorship (having to go to IEM and winning that instead).
The WCS is not an accurate measurement of the "best" player in the world, the tournament itself is so weird right now that the actual WCS Finals in China are going to be nothing but PvZ's.
it's probably the most coveted title this year, but the lack of certain top players delegitimises it a bit. still, some insane competition there, and those who win it will have taken out aforementioned top players on the way.
Honestly mvp should just get a seed into WCS. Does anyone think we can have a world championship series without the greatest player in the world? WCS is worth nothing if mvp isn't playing in it.
Then he shouldn't have lost to Polt in the winners bracket.
I was so hoping that Rain would win MVP, but at least it was a close and amazing match. Don't wanna count Life out this early, but Rain vs MVP may have been the finals we were looking for.
On October 11 2012 01:53 oneofthem wrote: rain played a ton of high level tournaments in a short duration. it's probably 75%-90% of his top form we saw
On October 10 2012 22:36 Bagration wrote: Wow, IMMVP you are so damn good.
Many other Terrans have come and tried to take your position as #1 Terran over the years. MKP met you in the finals twice, but you beat them. Polt, Bomber, MMA, and Taeja. All tried to take the #1 Terran title from you, but you have outlasted them all. 6 GSL finals appearances, twice as many as the next highest, and twice as many titles as the next highest.
The Greatest
MVP has 4 GSL titles and a plethora of other titles under his belt(WCG,IEM,MLG,etc).
Until they(Polt,Bomber,MMA,Taeja) start to win those number of titles, then we can start talking.
I never liked how TL hyped up Taeja as the current " best Terran player in the world " when he hasn't win a GSL title yet.
Now the hype train for Taeja will now be slowed down.
People are always going to rush to the latest result and catapult that person upwards. MVP has had the highest korean-ELO peak, and currently holds the 4th highest international-ELO peak. Take that and combine it with the fact that he generally doesn't travel outside of korea, is a Blizzcon Champion, WCS Champion, MLG Champion and four-time GSL champion and it's ridiculous to even say that anyone else is as close to MVP in terms being "the greatest."
the only thing Mvp needed is to win the WCS Global at the end of the year (probably one of the last big WoL events to cap it off) but alas no Mvp there
He was sort of screwed out of that tournament due to his LG sponsorship (having to go to IEM and winning that instead).
The WCS is not an accurate measurement of the "best" player in the world, the tournament itself is so weird right now that the actual WCS Finals in China are going to be nothing but PvZ's.
it's probably the most coveted title this year, but the lack of certain top players delegitimises it a bit. still, some insane competition there, and those who win it will have taken out aforementioned top players on the way.
Honestly mvp should just get a seed into WCS. Does anyone think we can have a world championship series without the greatest player in the world? WCS is worth nothing if mvp isn't playing in it.
Even though I don't rate WCS at all and the only one I was interested in watching was WCS Europe (for the fucking crazy production quality, and the players too), Mvp honestly can't play in so many leagues and still perform well at this point, there is a reason he can still perform in leagues like GSL - preparation. It must be torture for Mvp to practice as much as he does, and 1-2 Bo3-5's a week is probably the most he wants to play.
Also LG-IM already have Seed going to WCS, and they will have a few players in IPL5/GSL WC/GSL 5, Mvp has a silly amount of trophies at this point.
Now, I don't feel as bad about MKP losing to Life, since Life destroyed Taeja just as bad and is the next zerg bonjwa. Will be really interesting to see how MVP plays life. Taeja didn't play like MKP and still got rolled.
On October 11 2012 01:53 oneofthem wrote: rain played a ton of high level tournaments in a short duration. it's probably 75%-90% of his top form we saw
Please explain your reasoning for this comment as it makes no sense. I would agree if the tournaments were across the world and he had to travel a lot but he doesn't. No matter what I've done competitively, and I think lots can agree with me here, when I am on a tear, I am playing fucking awesome regardless. In fact especially when I used to play premiere league soccer the more games/tourneys I had over a short stretch the more pumped I would get to play.
Damn, really thought Rain had that one in the bag. Seemed like he tunnelvissioned a bit towards the end of game 5 though, probably making a few too many dts once MVP already had his main and nat secured with turrets. And going up to 4 colo was pretty greedy as well, imagine if he had invested in more archons/an earlier second forge/more gateway units. I think he would have held that all in no problem and been set for lategame.
On October 11 2012 01:53 oneofthem wrote: rain played a ton of high level tournaments in a short duration. it's probably 75%-90% of his top form we saw
Are you out of your damn mind? Even if this was true if your good enough you will overcome this and find a way to win. We just saw a great series between 2 great players, don't try and taint the result with bullshit like this.
So happy when I saw the results. Pity I haven't been able to watch any of Mvp's run this season due to being overseas. Can't wait to get back and watch all his games. What a champion!
I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly: 3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote: I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly: 3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote: I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly: 3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end.
All I read was "Salt"
All I read was you reposting my opinion by replying to it. Thanks! <3
On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote: I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly: 3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end.
What makes Rain and Stephano more enjoyable than MVP? Honest question, because I feel these two players in particular have plenty of similarities in their play style. A defensive macro orientated strategy focusing more on out thinking their opponents than out microing / out multitasking their opponents. (with even the occasional cheese thrown into the mix)
On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote: I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly: 3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end.
I agree with your first point. I almost always liquibet against MVP, but the guy just keeps on winning, which honestly I attribute mostly to his uncanny ability to prepare for boX series and mindgaming. Should go without saying that to win 4 Code S titles you have to be top-end in everything else as well, but honestly I don't think the guy is better than say Rain or a bunch of other top players purely in terms of raw skill and understanding. I find Life much more impressive than MVP, but it won't surprise me if MVP wins again.
On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote: I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly: 3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end.
What makes Rain and Stephano more enjoyable than MVP? Honest question, because I feel these two players in particular have plenty of similarities in their play style. A defensive macro orientated strategy focusing more on out thinking their opponents than out microing / out multitasking their opponents. (with even the occasional cheese thrown into the mix)
My favorite part of Rain's play is his approach to engagements, the way he chooses his concaves and sets up his damage (storms or colossus). I enjoy the way he has reinvented P by using Zealots as his opportunity unit and by reducing the sentry count. Other than that, I agree that his skillset overlaps with MVP ("bulletproof" builds, great decision making etc).
As for Stephano, he is a macro and build beast, and there's a reason why Jaedong himself expressed enthusiasm for his style. I'm not a huge fan of watching Stephanos games, but I like that he exists because he has perfected a niche.
On October 11 2012 02:36 partysnatcher wrote: I state my impressions about MVP feeling overrated, and tons of fanboys bring in their emotion-based arguments on why MVP is so amasazing. Ah, the irony!
So here are my personal reasons why I, personally (ie, just me - you don't have to agree), consider him overrated:
1. There are known players with far better single skills than MVP (decision making, micro, macro, multifronting), and thus I personally find him boring and unspectacular in comparison to guys like MMA, Taeja, Stephano, Hero, MKP, Rain, MC etc. I have a personal preference towards players with a focused skillset, so I personally like these kinds of players better.
2. Most of his wins came in a period where the game, the metagame and the map-pool was imbalanced in favor of the race he played, 40-50% of the players in Code S were Terrans, and most of his games were GOMTvTs.
And, most importantly: 3. He is, as we see in this thread, worshipped as the best player in SC2 history. I consider him the most-winning. Not the best. I personally would prefer a scenario where MVP loses in the final, because I think he has enough money and wins, more than I think he deserves, as an entertainer and a player.
The end.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but it seems pretty shallow to me. Being able to win should always be the most amazing part about any competitive game and if MVP has to excel in mindgames to do so, then I feel like we should be in awe of what he does. It's not as flashy, but that's just because we don't understand it the same way we can do for MMA's multitasking.
EPT
