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On October 12 2011 23:22 Fadetowhite wrote:
should rename the track to backstab central. everyone taking jabs at everyone it is kinda sad~~
i think everyone sees that giving a walkover finals is really bad, but shouldn´t x6 be a sport here and refuse to take a WO? this would be good for everyone.
EG gets their rightful shot at the finals.
x6 would make the win legit and if they lose they know that the better team at that time won+sportmanship.
ESEA gets their finals played, viewership / publicity.
just a suggestion.
Check six had no decision in the matter, we strive for fairness. And yes, torbull should be taking an active role in this discussion.
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On October 12 2011 06:06 iNcontroL wrote:
I don't want your respect I want a competent league that doesn't give w/o's in the finals. I want an admin who can admit he was wrong and not continue to go "ESEA is the best!" and then later admit "well this is my first time running a league" No shit? I couldn't tell.. well here is some huge advice GET THE FINALS PLAYED.
Want me to act professional in regards to your league? Then run a professional league. You yourself talked about giving respect and getting it. Well guess what? That sword cuts both ways. I have 0 respect for ESEA thus far. Want my respect? Stop being a shit league that makes up rules around the finals and would rather w/o a team than play the finals.
Ironically the most PR ESEA will get in 2 seasons will be me talking about this on SOTG.
holy shit you act like a 12 year old child, grow up, wtf is wrong with you? You do realize your posts are that of an angry man that has insecurities? You should go to church, aren't you religious? Act more immature please, it's quite amusing, you're trying to hard to talk shit over something that can't be fixed...
User was warned for this post
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Da Bears! Best of luck next season in ESEA. Hopefully all this can work itself out. What happened is in the past now and one can only try to improve on that.
P.S. Big fan of you and 3D in CS. Still remember you from Frag or Die, best cs frag movie EVER!
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On October 12 2011 06:57 dbizzle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 06:51 elliminist wrote:On October 12 2011 06:24 dbizzle wrote:On October 12 2011 06:17 elliminist wrote:On October 12 2011 06:00 dbizzle wrote:
I never called every other league a "backyard" or talk about the way you run your league. I apologized to your manager and all the other team managers via msging and on the phone about the delays and hiccups that happened in ESEA. You have your right to say whatever you want to say and voice your opinions on the league.
I am learning how to run a better league with each season and things will be improved. The way we run things are a little different, yea the coverage was very little, but thats ok. In due time things will get rolling and you will see a lot more coverage with ESEA sc2.
This is my first league I have ever ran and I've made some mistakes and learning new things every week. I am grateful that ESEA is branching off into sc2 and looking forward to season 3.
Name calling is just immature and unprofessional, I am here to let you guys know of a new season and to get your feedback. If you're that type of person who would rather bitch and yell and pull out your hair because something went wrong instead of calmly assessing the situation, thats cool man. Just do it in respect, other wise you wont get any respect thrown back at you.
I don't think you quite get what needs to be done yet. Right now your publicity and marketing are so far behind the schedule its unacceptable to even consider asking for league entry fees or awarding prizes. Heck you even had entrants who entered thinking was 1v1 because of how poorly presented the league is. You're just lucky that it has received so little coverage. I don't see InControl here asking for a CW finals REMATCH or anything like that at all. The fact he has to make it public that your league just 'ran' with a walkover finals without any clear justification. Given there was absolutely no effect of whether the finals was held the same day (which team EG intended to honor), or a day after makes a pretty clear case that the management decision was absolute rubbish. Especially if higher-ups make a decision saying they 'can't wait', it just shows how little respect ESEA has for the players and teams of the league. Doesn't matter that they pitch money to fly people to finals, the mere fact they think it's okay to announce a w/o knowing there was internet outage. Hell it's better PR salvage to withdraw the w/o decision than to just pretend to be ignorant about the outage. There is a very clear process of actions that need to be done to rectify this. You cannot make a claim that the league is great and well run considering even you yourself admit this is your first league that you have run. It has been made clear on this thread there were many complaints about the ways things happened - no publicity, no admins, no penalties until finals, no consideration for teams who FOLLOWED rules. ESEA needs to release a public apology to teams for the poor management of the league. Please understand that the sc2 division has had its problems, when I talk about ESEA being a top league. I'm referring to the years of 1.6 and source seasons that have been running with out a hitch. SC2 is an infant compared to the other games in ESEA, things will mess up and go wrong. We are fixing problems when they appear as fast as we can. ESEA is in it for the long run, and we will prove it to the community. I appreciate that you are trying to make it work better. However refusing to release a public apology (as implied in your reply) just shows everyone how far this league is willing to go in terms of professionalism, which unfortunately isn't very far. There is a difference between working towards something and refusing to admit that there were problems in the past. Look at all the other big tournaments. Do you think they publicly apologise because they like to? I don't think so. It's part of being a legitimate league. I have apologized many times to the public and to the managers, and again I am sorry for how things turned out and how this thread has turned out. I do admit there were problems in the past, I have always tried to be as level headed as I can be. Fixing problems and trying to be successful at a league takes some steps and hard work which can take some time here and there. I'll say that so far season 2, even though it had some problems, were immensely better in terms of things being reported and delays compared to season one.
I respect you da bears  , you have done a lot for competitive gaming as a whole on the counter strike level playing for high level teams like EG back in the days, now taking on starcraft 2, hope you do well, and ESEA is a good league that doesn't accept failure because of arrogant people like incontrol bashing the league instead of giving constructive criticism in at least a semi appropriate manner. ESEA will be a league that starcraft gamers will come to, I've been around the league since the very first year it's started and there is no reason ESEA shouldn't be a front runner as one of the top leagues in North America. Some people just don't understand that your league is a business and you can't delay a 85+ thousand dollar season for games like TF2/Source/1.6 just because starcraft is behind on schedule.
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On October 12 2011 07:00 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 06:54 dbizzle wrote:On October 12 2011 06:06 iNcontroL wrote:
I don't want your respect I want a competent league that doesn't give w/o's in the finals. I want an admin who can admit he was wrong and not continue to go "ESEA is the best!" and then later admit "well this is my first time running a league" No shit? I couldn't tell.. well here is some huge advice GET THE FINALS PLAYED.
Want me to act professional in regards to your league? Then run a professional league. You yourself talked about giving respect and getting it. Well guess what? That sword cuts both ways. I have 0 respect for ESEA thus far. Want my respect? Stop being a shit league that makes up rules around the finals and would rather w/o a team than play the finals.
Ironically the most PR ESEA will get in 2 seasons will be me talking about this on SOTG. You exaggerate a lot of my words when I'm trying to explain the situations of what and why things happened. I don't want to publicly put down EG and tell everyone that we've had many problems with your team through out both seasons of reporting scores and going weeks and weeks with out turning in any replays, thus delaying the season itself. You want SC2 to be the next big game and to be like korea in terms of money and how much they love it over there. Yet you can't even throw in positive advice with out sounding like an immature brat. If you want a potential league to succeed (who is willing to throw down thousands of dollars) it takes the community to fuel it. You want to talk bad about esea and how shitty it is on your talk show, go ahead, all you are doing is putting a negative impact in the sc2 community. You remind me of the people who bashed Championship Gaming Series when they were throwing MILLIONS of dollars for a gaming. Yea the format and things weren't ran right, but it takes time, trial and error sometimes to make something right. If the whole cs and css community showed more support the league could very well be here still today. I don't care who you are or what team you play for, if you don't show up to a finals when you are suppose to play, you forfeit, go ahead and try it at any tournament. Even other team managers hate dealing with you because your head is so far up your own ass that you think the world is willing to bend over backwards for EG. I barely even know you and I already don't like you. You are a big icon in the starcraft 2 community and you represent yourself and EG terribly with your attitude. ESEA wasn't the best ran league, but at least I have respect for other people and try my best to fix the problems. I look forward to reading this out loud on SOTG. You sound like a fantastic ESEA admin! Complaining that I call you names but then turning around and doing exactly that. You want to try and say I am hurting esports because I call you out for being a shit admin? LOL try not being a shit admin dude. It's obvious at this point you've lost it. Laurent and creig are good people. You are a horrible admin who is getting pissy because you can't admit when you are wrong and would rather start calling me names. Also comparing my complaints about ESEA to people complaining about CGS is laughable. CGS fucked up.. not people complaining about them. Fuck you for even suggesting otherwise. And here you go again, fucking up another league and then blaming the people who are upset about it
Sort of like NASL fucked up season 1 right? Not what geoff thinks, you're close minded, no matter how many people that complained about NASL, your mind is set on the fact that you were associated with the league so it had to be good am I right or am I right? Wait, you can't admit you're wrong and would rather start calling the community names.
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On October 12 2011 07:29 TomSlick wrote:
im pretty sure ESEA is about the only event EG can actually win so i completely understand incontrols rage here.
lmfao funny, but totally true.
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On October 12 2011 16:17 dbizzle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 15:36 SirScoots wrote:I simply pointed out that when he was managing a team, he would have lost his mind had a league tried to pull this on his team. Simple as that. Erik also called our EGMC "a backyard online league" is that the one that gives out $10k, streams 4 nights a week, and flies casters to a studio to cast the finals. We need more of these shitty backyard online leagues if you ask me. I never commented on EGMC or called any league a backyard league. Incontrol really loves to twist words around to make a point.
On October 12 2011 05:08 dbizzle wrote:
You do not run ESEA, you do not know how the system works. This isn't your backyard online league
You were saying?
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On October 12 2011 15:10 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 14:10 crms wrote:On October 12 2011 13:56 iNcontroL wrote:On October 12 2011 13:53 crms wrote:On October 12 2011 11:51 escher wrote:
I tend to disagree with iNcontroL on a lot of things (for example, he apparently believes in creationism say what? that's embarrassing. I agree that a w/o finals is a pretty retarded decision. Every accommodation should be made so that your league final gets played. I'm also laughing hysterically at incontrol arguing the logic of decisions made by a league when he (NASL) and EG (EGMC) have been affiliated with tournaments/leagues that have had some of dumbest decisions known to man and the end result was usually, 'it's our league we will run it how we see fit.' Are people's memories really that short? incontrol being a raging hypocrite when it's not really necessary, shocker. uh the difference is I am a commentator for both those leagues and not an admin (he is) Also I am not a creationist.. you reddit people are really bad at reading. I'm not a redditor.  I understand there is a difference between being a commentator and an admin. I was more referring to such moments like your tireless defense of EG's stance in the EGMC when Liquid was trying to argue over the playability of the servers. EG's stance was pretty silly but it basically came down to, 'this is how we want to run our league' and that was that, liquid pulled out. That is just one of many examples one could illustrate where this whole situation is highly ironic. The greatest of all though may just be you bashing into this relatively unknown tournament admin calling him a SHIT admin etc. etc., when he made a decision in the best interest of his league (or so he thought). I don't think it was a good decision but how is you laying into him calling him shitty at his profession over a poor decision any different then when you sob to the community about calling you a shitty player because you never win anything/perform well? Maybe I'm delusional but I think that's really silly. It's ok for you to bash this guy for being a 'shitty' admin but the community needs to be more positive towards your 'shitty' play? Weird. This isn't simply a bash post either, I really enjoy you on SOTG, you can be goddamn hilarious but I think you should take a step back and realize wtf you're doing sometimes. This and countless other examples is why you're so controversial in this community. You're a superstar of SC2 with way more fans than haters, but shit like this thread is a huge reason you have such a loud albeit minority voice against you so often. ps glad that you aren't a creationist, phew. Still absolutely not the same lol Believe it or not me one time defending my team's league and saying the ability to make rules for your own league does not exclude me from ever calling out another league for a bad decision. I know, confusing but I am sure you can work your way through that one. Additionally, I called him a "shit admin" because he made a shit choice. Me getting called names by random people like you and me saying that is a bad thing that happens in this community is not the same as me being mad at a decision _everyone_ agrees was terrible. Again, this may mystify you, but me being upset with random people calling me a bad player does not exclude me from criticizing people in any profession ever. Insane! Further, your name continuously pops up in threads I am involved in. You need to get a new hobby.. whatever makes you think it is fun to follow me around and try to argue is going to become a rather shallow experience. I have recognized you as the troll you are and will ignore you in the future.
Analogies are not supposed to be 'absolutely the same thing', it's why they're called analogies.
Of course you defending your teams league or you asking the community to be more positive about results doesn't mean that you cannot go off on tangents, ridicule others or do anything else you could ever think of doing. Nobody has said otherwise. The entire point is it comes off as silly when you get on your soap box about the communities negativity etc., and then act like you have in this thread.
I'm sorry you have me targetted as a dirty troll who should be ignored. I generally think my positions are pretty rational and thought out. I think the worst thing I ever said to you was leaving casting/shows to focus on playing was a bad idea because you shined more as a community member than as a player. I would have given that advice to my best friend in the same situation. I think I may have also been harsh about EG results at some point as well because I've been an EG fan for a very, very, long time and until recently, I didn't feel the team was playing at the level I expect from an organization like EG.
Oh well. I'll still wear my EG shirts but just because people disagree with you or call you out on actions doesn't mean they're always a troll. People can disagree and argue and not be trolling one another. -.-
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On October 13 2011 00:47 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 15:10 iNcontroL wrote:On October 12 2011 14:10 crms wrote:On October 12 2011 13:56 iNcontroL wrote:On October 12 2011 13:53 crms wrote:On October 12 2011 11:51 escher wrote:
I tend to disagree with iNcontroL on a lot of things (for example, he apparently believes in creationism say what? that's embarrassing. I agree that a w/o finals is a pretty retarded decision. Every accommodation should be made so that your league final gets played. I'm also laughing hysterically at incontrol arguing the logic of decisions made by a league when he (NASL) and EG (EGMC) have been affiliated with tournaments/leagues that have had some of dumbest decisions known to man and the end result was usually, 'it's our league we will run it how we see fit.' Are people's memories really that short? incontrol being a raging hypocrite when it's not really necessary, shocker. uh the difference is I am a commentator for both those leagues and not an admin (he is) Also I am not a creationist.. you reddit people are really bad at reading. I'm not a redditor. I understand there is a difference between being a commentator and an admin. I was more referring to such moments like your tireless defense of EG's stance in the EGMC when Liquid was trying to argue over the playability of the servers. EG's stance was pretty silly but it basically came down to, 'this is how we want to run our league' and that was that, liquid pulled out. That is just one of many examples one could illustrate where this whole situation is highly ironic. The greatest of all though may just be you bashing into this relatively unknown tournament admin calling him a SHIT admin etc. etc., when he made a decision in the best interest of his league (or so he thought). I don't think it was a good decision but how is you laying into him calling him shitty at his profession over a poor decision any different then when you sob to the community about calling you a shitty player because you never win anything/perform well? Maybe I'm delusional but I think that's really silly. It's ok for you to bash this guy for being a 'shitty' admin but the community needs to be more positive towards your 'shitty' play? Weird. This isn't simply a bash post either, I really enjoy you on SOTG, you can be goddamn hilarious but I think you should take a step back and realize wtf you're doing sometimes. This and countless other examples is why you're so controversial in this community. You're a superstar of SC2 with way more fans than haters, but shit like this thread is a huge reason you have such a loud albeit minority voice against you so often. ps glad that you aren't a creationist, phew. Still absolutely not the same lol Believe it or not me one time defending my team's league and saying the ability to make rules for your own league does not exclude me from ever calling out another league for a bad decision. I know, confusing but I am sure you can work your way through that one. Additionally, I called him a "shit admin" because he made a shit choice. Me getting called names by random people like you and me saying that is a bad thing that happens in this community is not the same as me being mad at a decision _everyone_ agrees was terrible. Again, this may mystify you, but me being upset with random people calling me a bad player does not exclude me from criticizing people in any profession ever. Insane! Further, your name continuously pops up in threads I am involved in. You need to get a new hobby.. whatever makes you think it is fun to follow me around and try to argue is going to become a rather shallow experience. I have recognized you as the troll you are and will ignore you in the future. Analogies are not supposed to be 'absolutely the same thing', it's why they're called analogies. Of course you defending your teams league or you asking the community to be more positive about results doesn't mean that you cannot go off on tangents, ridicule others or do anything else you could ever think of doing. Nobody has said otherwise. The entire point is it comes off as silly when you get on your soap box about the communities negativity etc., and then act like you have in this thread. I'm sorry you have me targetted as a dirty troll who should be ignored. I generally think my positions are pretty rational and thought out. I think the worst thing I ever said to you was leaving casting/shows to focus on playing was a bad idea because you shined more as a community member than as a player. I would have given that advice to my best friend in the same situation. I think I may have also been harsh about EG results at some point as well because I've been an EG fan for a very, very, long time and until recently, I didn't feel the team was playing at the level I expect from an organization like EG. Oh well. I'll still wear my EG shirts but just because people disagree with you or call you out on actions doesn't mean they're always a troll. People can disagree and argue and not be trolling one another. -.-
rationalization at its finest
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On October 13 2011 00:38 Tyrr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 16:17 dbizzle wrote:On October 12 2011 15:36 SirScoots wrote:I simply pointed out that when he was managing a team, he would have lost his mind had a league tried to pull this on his team. Simple as that. Erik also called our EGMC "a backyard online league" is that the one that gives out $10k, streams 4 nights a week, and flies casters to a studio to cast the finals. We need more of these shitty backyard online leagues if you ask me. I never commented on EGMC or called any league a backyard league. Incontrol really loves to twist words around to make a point. Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 05:08 dbizzle wrote:
You do not run ESEA, you do not know how the system works. This isn't your backyard online league
You were saying?
Where did he specifically state EG's online league... It's called a metaphor.
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On October 13 2011 00:52 dbizzle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 00:38 Tyrr wrote:On October 12 2011 16:17 dbizzle wrote:On October 12 2011 15:36 SirScoots wrote:I simply pointed out that when he was managing a team, he would have lost his mind had a league tried to pull this on his team. Simple as that. Erik also called our EGMC "a backyard online league" is that the one that gives out $10k, streams 4 nights a week, and flies casters to a studio to cast the finals. We need more of these shitty backyard online leagues if you ask me. I never commented on EGMC or called any league a backyard league. Incontrol really loves to twist words around to make a point. On October 12 2011 05:08 dbizzle wrote:
You do not run ESEA, you do not know how the system works. This isn't your backyard online league
You were saying? I was being pretty general, I did not mean EGMC in any way or think about EGMC while saying that.
I could figure that much myself by your defending of the statement, but next time you should probably choose your words a little more carefully. Since you were speaking directly to Incontrol, and he's had his hand in BOTH the EGMC and NASL, saying "your" might make someone believe that one of those leagues are being referenced....which seems to be what happened here. Just thought I'd point that out. I don't want to get involved with this shit storm further than I have to. :<
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On October 13 2011 00:52 dbizzle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 00:38 Tyrr wrote:On October 12 2011 16:17 dbizzle wrote:On October 12 2011 15:36 SirScoots wrote:I simply pointed out that when he was managing a team, he would have lost his mind had a league tried to pull this on his team. Simple as that. Erik also called our EGMC "a backyard online league" is that the one that gives out $10k, streams 4 nights a week, and flies casters to a studio to cast the finals. We need more of these shitty backyard online leagues if you ask me. I never commented on EGMC or called any league a backyard league. Incontrol really loves to twist words around to make a point. On October 12 2011 05:08 dbizzle wrote:
You do not run ESEA, you do not know how the system works. This isn't your backyard online league
You were saying? I was being pretty general, I did not mean EGMC in any way or think about EGMC while saying that.
Well since Incontrol is going to MLG Orlando you should talk with him about these issues, it's much easier to explain to someone the thoughts running through your head face to face than over the internet, people like incontrol don't understand we're all humans and make mistakes, which he's done in competitive gaming for a while now.
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Xeris post made me laugh. He contradicts himself a lot.
I now hope even more that ESEA becomes on of the biggest clan leagues out there just so fnatic gets shafted despite my love for there CS division.
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On October 13 2011 01:58 yawnoC wrote:
Xeris post made me laugh. He contradicts himself a lot.
I now hope even more that ESEA becomes on of the biggest clan leagues out there just so fnatic gets shafted despite my love for there CS division.
A big successful league doesn't become what it is if it removes teams due to not liking them.
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This kind of immaturity is what makes esports such a joke lol. You have ESEA trying to support sc2 with thousands of dollars and people are just tearing it apart. Some people are hating just because a iNcontroL is holding a grudge about an unfortunate event. A lot of you like to compare video games to actual sports right? With that being said, it doesn't matter if your bus broke down or if the internet went out. If you can't show up to the game, you forfeit. It sucks but it's not the end of the world. There's always next season and plenty of other tournaments to look forward to.
lpkane knew and stated himself that it was going to be rough at the start, but ESEA was looking forward to grinding it out while improving from season to season. Which is what dabears has been saying. And which is what we should be looking forward to. They're even welcoming input from us. It blows my mind how negative some of you are when they're just trying to better their league for the players and spectators.
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This is weird. Incontrol is right on pretty much every point he makes, yet I can't possibly make myself agree with him.
Want me to act professional in regards to your league?
More general, it would be much appreciated if you could act at least a little bit professional in your role as EG spokesperson. A role that you seem to have assumed long ago and still fulfill for god knows what reason.
Once again you attack someone in public who tries to be civil in his responses to you for so long, and once again you keep going and going, not knowing when to stop.
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On October 13 2011 01:58 yawnoC wrote:
Xeris post made me laugh. He contradicts himself a lot.
I now hope even more that ESEA becomes on of the biggest clan leagues out there just so fnatic gets shafted despite my love for there CS division.
Did you manage in the in ESEA SC2 League? No, I didn't think so. I did and it was fucking awfully run. The ESEA system is set up terribly and is more in favor of people who want FF wins more then anything.
da_bears how about you respond to my post then?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=274326¤tpage=5#86
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iNcontroL wrote:
It's shit like this that will forever hold ESEA as a second rate clan league that continues to disappoint and get lackluster attention. How can a community take an organization serious when it basically castrates it's own finals?
iNcontroL wrote:
If you want to get serious and join the other organizations in running legit tourneys where people rally around and get excited let us know!
iNcontroL wrote:
Do you have any fucking interest in a finals for a league? Do you care about the games integrity at all?
iNcontroL wrote:
And no, each season is not running better and better. This season ended with a walkover and a shitty thread announcing the next season with a "oh btw here are the places for the previous season:
iNcontroL wrote:
Kidding me? That sounds better to you?
iNcontroL wrote:
It's fucking terrible.
iNcontroL wrote:
Great. You seem to be a fantastic league admin.
iNcontroL wrote:
WTF man? Are you literally insane?
iNcontroL wrote:
For future reference: It'd be best if you didn't continue to try and slander me by calling me unprofessional, other leagues "backyard" and go on about how special the ESEA league is in a thread discussing a major fuck up.
+ Show Spoiler +Who's slandering who, do you see the shit you have said? He called every other league a backyard league by saying ESEA wasn't one? This thread is about how bad ESEA is, not Season 3, and he needs to acknowledge how shit ESEA is and stop trying to promote Season 3?
iNcontroL wrote:
PS: Season 1 and 2 are the same pile of shit but at least in season 1 they played the finals..
iNcontroL wrote:
I look forward to reading this out loud on SOTG.
You sound like a fantastic ESEA admin! Complaining that I call you names but then turning around and doing exactly that. You want to try and say I am hurting esports because I call you out for being a shit admin? LOL try not being a shit admin dude.
and the kicker!
iNcontroL wrote:
Take your own advice: be more respectful if you want anyone to take you seriously.
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Here's the deal:
I hate that Incontrol is being backed up and supported for this type of behavior.
ESEA has clearly done a poor (maybe even horrible) job with Starcraft 2 so far.
It is unacceptable for a league to charge money and not deliver a quality experience or even a finals. They are apparently going to work on that.
It is also unacceptable for somebody with the status of Incontrol to be so aggressive and rude in a public forum. He has no plans to work on this and goes between bashing those who call him out as trolls/haters or ignoring them.
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United States4991 Posts
Who cares what Incontrol's status is? What matters is that he's right, not whether he has a lot of posts or says things on camera.
The league made a joke of a decision, and is being called on it. Every single one of your posts in this thread is a personal attack on Incontrol, rather than actually addressing the fact that the league fucked up big time and is now trying to sweep it under the rug. Merely saying "they're working on it and it's new and blah blah" isn't a valid excuse for a pay to enter league. Why would you shoot the messenger?
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EPT
