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escher
6 Posts
 ) but having read the posts from both sides, it does sound like the ESEA admins were in the wrong here.On October 12 2011 05:48 iNcontroL wrote: Let me subjectively say for the reasons above your league is a failure. I think you mean 'objectively'. A league which ends in a walkover is objectively a failure. | ||
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ehFk
Canada53 Posts
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riboflavin
United States226 Posts
As a mostly neutral party, the result of having read this is that my opinion of both parties is much lower. I'm not particularly interested in supporting either sides interests anymore and would prefer they had worked this out behind the scenes and come to terms that suit both. Why isn't EG's management handling this type of grievance? Another high profile progamer was dead on when he said that gamers should focus on being better at SC2 and let their management and leadership speak for them on these types of matters. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On October 12 2011 11:51 escher wrote: I tend to disagree with iNcontroL on a lot of things (for example, he apparently believes in creationism say what? that's embarrassing. I agree that a w/o finals is a pretty retarded decision. Every accommodation should be made so that your league final gets played. I'm also laughing hysterically at incontrol arguing the logic of decisions made by a league when he (NASL) and EG (EGMC) have been affiliated with tournaments/leagues that have had some of dumbest decisions known to man and the end result was usually, 'it's our league we will run it how we see fit.' Are people's memories really that short? incontrol being a raging hypocrite when it's not really necessary, shocker. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On October 12 2011 13:53 crms wrote: say what? that's embarrassing. I agree that a w/o finals is a pretty retarded decision. Every accommodation should be made so that your league final gets played. I'm also laughing hysterically at incontrol arguing the logic of decisions made by a league when he (NASL) and EG (EGMC) have been affiliated with tournaments/leagues that have had some of dumbest decisions known to man and the end result was usually, 'it's our league we will run it how we see fit.' Are people's memories really that short? incontrol being a raging hypocrite when it's not really necessary, shocker. uh the difference is I am a commentator for both those leagues and not an admin (he is) Also I am not a creationist.. you reddit people are really bad at reading. | ||
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javex
Canada4 Posts
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On October 12 2011 13:56 iNcontroL wrote: uh the difference is I am a commentator for both those leagues and not an admin (he is) Also I am not a creationist.. you reddit people are really bad at reading. I'm not a redditor.  I understand there is a difference between being a commentator and an admin. I was more referring to such moments like your tireless defense of EG's stance in the EGMC when Liquid was trying to argue over the playability of the servers. EG's stance was pretty silly but it basically came down to, 'this is how we want to run our league' and that was that, liquid pulled out. That is just one of many examples one could illustrate where this whole situation is highly ironic. The greatest of all though may just be you bashing into this relatively unknown tournament admin calling him a SHIT admin etc. etc., when he made a decision in the best interest of his league (or so he thought). I don't think it was a good decision but how is you laying into him calling him shitty at his profession over a poor decision any different then when you sob to the community about calling you a shitty player because you never win anything/perform well? Maybe I'm delusional but I think that's really silly. It's ok for you to bash this guy for being a 'shitty' admin but the community needs to be more positive towards your 'shitty' play? Weird. This isn't simply a bash post either, I really enjoy you on SOTG, you can be goddamn hilarious but I think you should take a step back and realize wtf you're doing sometimes. This and countless other examples is why you're so controversial in this community. You're a superstar of SC2 with way more fans than haters, but shit like this thread is a huge reason you have such a loud albeit minority voice against you so often. ps glad that you aren't a creationist, phew. | ||
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psycrop
United States9 Posts
On October 12 2011 14:10 crms wrote: You're a superstar of SC2 with way more fans than haters, but shit like this thread is a huge reason you have such a loud albeit minority voice against you so often. ps glad that you aren't a creationist, phew. Minority?? I'm pretty a lot of people hate his guts not only for being a shitty player, but for having a shitty attitude as well. I wish he'd tone it down sometimes, not everything revolves around him or his team. By the way, GL at Orlando iNcontrol. Hope you'd put your practice hat on, maybe this time you'll almost win your games. ESEA is a GOOD LEAGUE. Help them bring it to the level that it is in CS and TF2 and you got yourself another prestigious organization making way into the SC2 scene. User was warned for this post | ||
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escher
6 Posts
On October 12 2011 13:56 iNcontroL wrote: Also I am not a creationist.. you reddit people are really bad at reading. I wonder how that rumor got started. Sorry, upon reflection it was a stupid offhanded/off-topic jab. My bad. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On October 12 2011 14:10 crms wrote: I'm not a redditor. I understand there is a difference between being a commentator and an admin. I was more referring to such moments like your tireless defense of EG's stance in the EGMC when Liquid was trying to argue over the playability of the servers. EG's stance was pretty silly but it basically came down to, 'this is how we want to run our league' and that was that, liquid pulled out. That is just one of many examples one could illustrate where this whole situation is highly ironic. The greatest of all though may just be you bashing into this relatively unknown tournament admin calling him a SHIT admin etc. etc., when he made a decision in the best interest of his league (or so he thought). I don't think it was a good decision but how is you laying into him calling him shitty at his profession over a poor decision any different then when you sob to the community about calling you a shitty player because you never win anything/perform well? Maybe I'm delusional but I think that's really silly. It's ok for you to bash this guy for being a 'shitty' admin but the community needs to be more positive towards your 'shitty' play? Weird. This isn't simply a bash post either, I really enjoy you on SOTG, you can be goddamn hilarious but I think you should take a step back and realize wtf you're doing sometimes. This and countless other examples is why you're so controversial in this community. You're a superstar of SC2 with way more fans than haters, but shit like this thread is a huge reason you have such a loud albeit minority voice against you so often. ps glad that you aren't a creationist, phew. Still absolutely not the same lol Believe it or not me one time defending my team's league and saying the ability to make rules for your own league does not exclude me from ever calling out another league for a bad decision. I know, confusing but I am sure you can work your way through that one. Additionally, I called him a "shit admin" because he made a shit choice. Me getting called names by random people like you and me saying that is a bad thing that happens in this community is not the same as me being mad at a decision _everyone_ agrees was terrible. Again, this may mystify you, but me being upset with random people calling me a bad player does not exclude me from criticizing people in any profession ever. Insane! Further, your name continuously pops up in threads I am involved in. You need to get a new hobby.. whatever makes you think it is fun to follow me around and try to argue is going to become a rather shallow experience. I have recognized you as the troll you are and will ignore you in the future. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On October 12 2011 14:29 psycrop wrote: Minority?? I'm pretty a lot of people hate his guts not only for being a shitty player, but for having a shitty attitude as well. I wish he'd tone it down sometimes, not everything revolves around him or his team. By the way, GL at Orlando iNcontrol. Hope you'd put your practice hat on, maybe this time you'll almost win your games. ESEA is a GOOD LEAGUE. Help them bring it to the level that it is in CS and TF2 and you got yourself another prestigious organization making way into the SC2 scene. Here let me help you out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority He wasn't referring to the number being a "small amount of people" but rather they are outnumbered by another group of people. you seem to be hot on the trail of your next banned account btw.. keep at it! | ||
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SirScoots
United States138 Posts
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HaruRH
Singapore2780 Posts
On October 12 2011 15:12 iNcontroL wrote: Here let me help you out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority He wasn't referring to the number being a "small amount of people" but rather they are outnumbered by another group of people. you seem to be hot on the trail of your next banned account btw.. keep at it! You do not need to reply to such crap from ignorant haters who only know how to stick to their own arguments and pay no attention to even what they are quoting. You know we love you, incontrol. You regularly give us insider news and give your honest feedbacks. Keep at it and disregard these people. | ||
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ATLpro
United States9 Posts
On October 12 2011 15:14 SirScoots wrote: If this happened to Craig when he ran 3D, he would have gone batshit on the league, funny how times change. lol.... aren't you EG's manager.. I understand the players voicing their opinions in a public forums, but the manager? I thought EG(CS) and ESEA had a better relationship than this.. Professionalism 101 guys. | ||
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ChuCky.Ca
Canada2497 Posts
On October 12 2011 15:26 ATLpro wrote: lol.... aren't you EG's manager.. I understand the players voicing their opinions in a public forums, but the manager? I thought EG(CS) and ESEA had a better relationship than this.. Professionalism 101 guys. NOO Fluff | ||
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SirScoots
United States138 Posts
Erik also called our EGMC "a backyard online league" is that the one that gives out $10k, streams 4 nights a week, and flies casters to a studio to cast the finals. We need more of these shitty backyard online leagues if you ask me.  | ||
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Phobbers
773 Posts
P.S. I expect some wacky antics on the next SotG iNcontrol!! | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On October 12 2011 15:37 Phobbers wrote: Overall, I feel iNcontrol has every right to be angered over this situation, but I also feel this type of argument should not be occurring on a public forum. P.S. I expect some wacky antics on the next SotG iNcontrol!! I disagree. In eSports we don't have a way to hold leagues accountable for their actions save for public opinion. I can't write a letter to ESEA and get real change. I don't have a 3rd party to go to and have this issue mediated. I need people to know ESEA went ahead and made a choice that is really shitty and literally everyone agrees.. even dabears knows this. The difference is everyone knows it's shitty and should change but dabears is like "sup we can't do anything now!" and is unapologetic. Even calling me names, disrespecting other leagues and in general being defensive when he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. | ||
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Phobbers
773 Posts
On October 12 2011 15:40 iNcontroL wrote: I disagree. In eSports we don't have a way to hold leagues accountable for their actions save for public opinion. I can't write a letter to ESEA and get real change. I don't have a 3rd party to go to and have this issue mediated. I need people to know ESEA went ahead and made a choice that is really shitty and literally everyone agrees.. even dabears knows this. The difference is everyone knows it's shitty and should change but dabears is like "sup we can't do anything now!" and is unapologetic. Even calling me names, disrespecting other leagues and in general being defensive when he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. If your aim was to make it well known to the public, then more power to you. I know for a fact after going through this thread I have been informed, prior to this I actually had little knowledge of ESEA, and now I can say I'm somewhat glad I didn't if this is how things get handled. I know I would be servery saddened if a finals I was looking forward to was just a simple walk over. All in all, I hope this can be a valuable experience for ESEA. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
It's absolutely disgusting that this league literally takes money from people and has terrible, incompetent administration and rules. I signed up in Season 1 on the premise that CW times are set in stone... and mind you, the ESEA admins ASKED me to sign up Fnatic and I only signed up because I was told that times are set. Not the case at all... their online scheduling system is cumbersome as shit. You have to set a time on the website, then the other team can suggest a new team... and if you don't accept/reject it and suggest a new time in 24 hours the time they set becomes the official time. You have to sit and watch the stupid website all day. Especially because some teams are really bm and try to exploit this system to get free wins. They change the times constantly, then you don't pay attention for a day and get walk over'd. We only played 5 CW's in our first season, and had a ton of outstanding games. I had pm'd admins consistently over the second half of the season, seeking to get games from earlier played because there were so many miscommunication problems and almost all the league games from the first half hadn't been played. Despite all my efforts, I found out before the playoffs that we'd just gotten forfeit losses for all the games we didn't play. For a league that YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR, the admins are very hands off -- they make you do all the work. You have to schedule, you have to contact your opponents and deal with problems yourselves. Despite trying to get help, the admins never offered to try to talk to the other teams on my behalf to attempt to reschedule. As far as I know they do little / no work. The website is not at all intuitive, it's hard to navigate, report results, set schedules, check the draw, etc. The coverage is horrid. I just got a ton of spam email about upcoming matches, but that was it... Compare that to your "backyard" leagues like GCPL or EGMC. I ran GCPL Season 1 single handedly, and it was the biggest clan league to date, with all the top non Korean teams. I sent emails to teams individually every week, in addition to reminders. I made posts on TL every single day, AND updated the GosuCoaching website, AND made sure that every single game was streamed. And I did this by myself. EG Masters Cup started at the beginning of 2011 and has become the best clan league, hands down. It's presentation is professional, its prize makes it competitive, and its prestige is growing. That league is run by a small handful of people. Those two leagues are light years more successful than ESEA, and yet ESEA is some big organization with a big staff list and supposedly funding. There's no excuse for that. This problem just highlights how incompetent this league is. I'd urge any team to boycott this league until it commits to hiring competent administrators, changing its format to something that works, and apologizing to the community for putting out a shitty product for two consecutive seasons. ESEA will never change unless people boycott it -- they make $8 per player, per season... that's several thousand dollars of free money they extract from the community without giving anything substantial back to it. ESEA is a leech, and unless the community takes action against it, it will have no incentive to change its practices. I believe the NA scene deserves better. | ||
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