EPTOn December 23 2010 06:32 PredY wrote:
the vods are really slow to load for me.. anyone else with the same issue?
the vods are really slow to load for me.. anyone else with the same issue?
You can try switching to a lower quality:
![[image loading]](http://i55.tinypic.com/nyec2c.png)
gisado aka KTH on gomtv - Page 28
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Odoakar
Croatia1835 Posts
You can try switching to a lower quality: | ||
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Vorlik
1522 Posts
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
MVP hella beast though o.O | ||
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Vorlik
1522 Posts
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superjoppe
Sweden3682 Posts
On December 23 2010 02:42 shire wrote: for all of you missed out on IMMVP vs ZERGS, VODs can be viewed at: http://ch.gomtv.com/4555/28119/401343 note, IP ADDRESS IS NOT BLOCKED for viewers outside of korea. However, the webpage is all in Korean. if you take a look at right side of the page it says IMMVP vs oGsZenio. click on play button to view the VODS WTF?? Gomtv.net has always been silent about us Mac users, and I have always had to hack the VLC streams. But when I visit this chinese site, it directs me to a working GOM version for Mac, made by Gretech Corp. I now see the video in GOM.app on my Mac.... | ||
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Ultramus
United States319 Posts
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bahl sofs tiil
United States233 Posts
On December 23 2010 05:58 KingRajesh wrote: I'm literally confused. What do you do against Marine/Tank? You can't go burrow roach, because roaches evaporate against tanks bonus damage against armored. You can't go hydra, since Marines already beat them cost for cost. You can't go Muta, because Mutalisks die in seconds to stimmed marines. You can't go mass zergling/baneling, since those die to tanks. You can't go infestor, since to fungal growth you need to be in tank range. It's nigh on impossible. So, you go all of them. Watch the match where Zenio beat IMmvp. He produces nearly every single unit in the brood. Zerg have one production building for all their units and the race is designed around that, in my opinion. Use mobility and drops and banelings to get the marines out of position, then come in with mutas to snipe tanks. If he is turtled hard, take the map and get broodlords and ultralisks. If the Terran player is leapfrogging tanks, spreading marines, blocking with marauders and spotting with air units, don't expect to just mass one or two units and beat all that. Meet his control with your control. The reaper rush, marine/tank is not. | ||
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dookudooku
255 Posts
If top terran players can split their marines to minimize damage from banelings, why can't Zerg split their banelings against tanks? I think Zerg players were so used to winning with their army composition that they spent too little time practicing micro. Among the BW pros who switched to SC2, MVP is definitely one of the best, and his useful APM and multi-tasking was far superior to his Zerg opponent's. | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On December 23 2010 09:09 dookudooku wrote: It's not the matchup, it's the players. Zerg players shouldn't assume just because they have the right strategy, they'll win. Both MTM and muta-ling-bane are very solid and safe strategies that can be used in most games. The battle between these two army compositions is actually so well balanced that it's no longer race-vs-race, but instead player-vs-player, as it should be. If top terran players can split their marines to minimize damage from banelings, why can't Zerg split their banelings against tanks? I think Zerg players were so used to winning with their army composition that they spent too little time practicing micro. Among the BW pros who switched to SC2, MVP is definitely one of the best, and his useful APM and multi-tasking was far superior to his Zerg opponent's. Because siege tanks have 13 range, they start firing on you BEFORE you even are in range to see them. It's like asking why terran can't split marines vs infestors, the infestors can fungal the instant marines appear, and you can't move around marines without balling them like in Age of Empires. Theres no way to move small banelings towards kiting marine balls without clumping because they are melee units. | ||
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Nimic
Norway1360 Posts
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On December 23 2010 09:17 Fa1nT wrote: Because siege tanks have 13 range, they start firing on you BEFORE you even are in range to see them. You don't need to see them to know that there are siege tanks. Your mutalisks, flying around, will have spotted them. On December 23 2010 09:17 Fa1nT wrote: Theres no way to move small banelings towards kiting marine balls without clumping because they are melee units. It's called APM. When the best BW pros switch over, watch them take 20 banelings and split them into different directions so that a siege tank can only hit 1 of them at any time, between the cooldown of a siege tank (3 game seconds). Then watch them clump those banelings to attack the marine balls before the next tank shot goes off. | ||
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iNversion
United States107 Posts
On December 23 2010 09:28 dookudooku wrote: It's called APM. When the best BW pros switch over, watch them take 20 banelings and split them into different directions so that a siege tank can only hit 1 of them at any time, between the cooldown of a siege tank (3 game seconds). Then watch them clump those banelings to attack the marine balls before the next tank shot goes off. While I agree Zerg players need to and SHOULD need to micro just as well as terrans to win and not just rely on the supposed superiority of muta/ling/bling composition, what you describe sounds ridiculous(ly awesome if it actually happens though). I would really want to see that in action now that i think about it lol. anyways, wp by mvp, his tvz is just so scary although his other matchups are kinda sketchy. (lost to choya in gsl, lost to choya again then clide in the ygosu invite group stages recently). although, people really good at one mu i.e. snipers were quite common in bw so its perfectably reasonable, especially since hes only switched over since the beginning of gsl2 and hasn't been playing for too long yet | ||
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SiCkO_
United States481 Posts
 or is it game 10? | ||
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zerious
Canada3803 Posts
On December 23 2010 09:49 SiCkO_ wrote: cant play IdrA's 7 pool game or is it game 10? It's the last game. | ||
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gozima
Canada602 Posts
On December 23 2010 09:28 dookudooku wrote: It's called APM. When the best BW pros switch over, watch them take 20 banelings and split them into different directions so that a siege tank can only hit 1 of them at any time, between the cooldown of a siege tank (3 game seconds). Then watch them clump those banelings to attack the marine balls before the next tank shot goes off. I'd be so blown away if any like this happens. I'm not saying it won't happen, but it would be crazy if it does. I guess people weren't exaggerating MvPs vZ. Not a single cheesy game from him, and he utterly dominated some of the best  in the world. Fun games to watch. Highly recommend. | ||
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On December 23 2010 09:41 iNversion wrote: While I agree Zerg players need to and SHOULD need to micro just as well as terrans to win and not just rely on the supposed superiority of muta/ling/bling composition, what you describe sounds ridiculous(ly awesome if it actually happens though). I would really want to see that in action now that i think about it lol. Concert pianists train 6+ hours a day for 10+ years to reach their level of dexterity. I think they can do up to 17 repetitions per second on a single key. The sheer speed of their arms, hands, and fingers is sick. Playing Starcraft is obviously not the same as playing piano, but my point is that we haven't seen players reach the limits of what's humanely possible. And that's what a sport or form or art should be -- pushing the limits of human ability. Not just physical, but also mental. | ||
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Ultramus
United States319 Posts
On December 23 2010 09:28 dookudooku wrote: You don't need to see them to know that there are siege tanks. Your mutalisks, flying around, will have spotted them. It's called APM. When the best BW pros switch over, watch them take 20 banelings and split them into different directions so that a siege tank can only hit 1 of them at any time, between the cooldown of a siege tank (3 game seconds). Then watch them clump those banelings to attack the marine balls before the next tank shot goes off. I've enjoyed many of the discussion in this thread. This post just reeks of trolling however. This isn't BW, you can't make all the tanks fire on a ling then get the banes in. The micro zerg players have been doing is running the lings in to aggro the tank fire and then have the banelings attack the marines. Problem is engaging into a siege line has so much burst damage that 20% of your force is taken out before the battle even starts. The latter sentence is more than ridiculous, spreading the banelings and then hitting a marine BALL? have we not established that the problem isn't a clump of marines but rather marines spreading and kiting the banelings. Also any fancy or attempted fancy maneuvering with banelings makes them less efficient, the banelings aren't a DPS unit, the longer they exist in a battle the worse they are, as they are getting shot by everything. The best idea I can think of is staying low tech, getting roach speed and focusing on using only roach ling bane to stop the push, because it seems that muta harass is not cost effective, even forcing the terran to make 3 missile turrets per base I still feel like you are behind due to the high cost of mutas and spire tech. I definitely don't feel that the answer is more tech :/ | ||
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On December 23 2010 10:03 Ultramus wrote: The latter sentence is more than ridiculous, spreading the banelings and then hitting a marine BALL? have we not established that the problem isn't a clump of marines but rather marines spreading and kiting the banelings. Also any fancy or attempted fancy maneuvering with banelings makes them less efficient, the banelings aren't a DPS unit, the longer they exist in a battle the worse they are, as they are getting shot by everything. As I said, this match is fairly balanced. Whatever Terran does can be defeated with superior control, and vice versa. Also, the marine spreads we're seeing are not perfect. There's usually 3-5 marines together, enough for banelings to be effective. Once Zerg players can control their units better, Terran players will need to be able to split their marines even better -- spread 30 marines into SINGLE marine groups in seconds. Also, spread marines are vulnerable to mutalisks and zerglings. Eventually we'll see Zerg players build only enough banelings to force the marines to spread, then rely on zerglings and mutalisks to do damage. And then Terrans will counter will different spread and kiting patterns. It should be a never ending battle of who has better control. Going back to the piano analogy -- if you've never seen or heard a top level pianist perform, you wouldn't have any idea of what's possible with that instrument. But the piano has been around for 300 years, and we know what a human is capable of with that instrument. SC has been around for 10 years, and SC2 for less than a year. So none of us really know what's possible -- what I'm saying is not completely outrageous. | ||
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On December 23 2010 09:41 iNversion wrote: anyways, wp by mvp, his tvz is just so scary although his other matchups are kinda sketchy. (lost to choya in gsl, lost to choya again then clide in the ygosu invite group stages recently). although, people really good at one mu i.e. snipers were quite common in bw so its perfectably reasonable, especially since hes only switched over since the beginning of gsl2 and hasn't been playing for too long yet I wouldn't be surprised if MVP had a friend create custom scenarios so he could practice everything about this matchup, like the MTM vs muta-ling-bane fight, depending against muta harass, even MTM + BC vs muta-ling-bane. | ||
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wintergt
Belgium1335 Posts
On December 23 2010 10:03 Ultramus wrote: I've enjoyed many of the discussion in this thread. This post just reeks of trolling however. This isn't BW, you can't make all the tanks fire on a ling then get the banes in. The micro zerg players have been doing is running the lings in to aggro the tank fire and then have the banelings attack the marines. Problem is engaging into a siege line has so much burst damage that 20% of your force is taken out before the battle even starts. The latter sentence is more than ridiculous, spreading the banelings and then hitting a marine BALL? have we not established that the problem isn't a clump of marines but rather marines spreading and kiting the banelings. Also any fancy or attempted fancy maneuvering with banelings makes them less efficient, the banelings aren't a DPS unit, the longer they exist in a battle the worse they are, as they are getting shot by everything. The best idea I can think of is staying low tech, getting roach speed and focusing on using only roach ling bane to stop the push, because it seems that muta harass is not cost effective, even forcing the terran to make 3 missile turrets per base I still feel like you are behind due to the high cost of mutas and spire tech. I definitely don't feel that the answer is more tech :/ Without mutas you'll get dropped to death. We saw this happen in a nestea (I believe, maybe Leenock) game who went late muta on shakuras. Maybe you don't need to get that many though, I can agree with that. | ||
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