gisado aka KTH on gomtv - Page 26

On December 22 2010 23:32 Ultramus wrote:
And I'm asking if you actually watched the games, explain to me how roaches or hydras will ever force terran away from the same composition MVP did. It won't because it's equally good against it. The mutalisks forced missile turrets, and that had little to no effect on MVP's army strength.

As for those saying match statistics will show something, that isn't true at all. MVP is a step above the rest, and he showed that with proper control marine tank can be nearly invincible, and he showed it vs the best zergs in the world with equally good unit control.

I'm looking at these games specifically for balance because you have to factor in player skill, I'd actually say TvZ is pretty balanced if you completely took away micro. But when you consider the abilities of the top terrans in the world you see that zerg's responses become exponentially worse.

I personally feel that banelings really hold zerg back in this matchup. Before terrans learned such great control of marines we had the invincible mech build which on PAPER was completely imbalanced, but then Zerg learned to magic box and suddenly it was an even exchange with the thors. If people can accept that micro can make a matchup balanced they should just as easily see how it can make one imbalanced.

On December 22 2010 23:17 Asha` wrote:
MvP vs Zenio :: 2-1 (L. Xel Naga || W. Steppes || W. Shakuras)
MvP vs Fruitdealer :: 2-0 (W. Lost Temple || W. Jungle Basin)
MvP vs Leenock :: 2-0 (W. Scrapstatiion || W. Xel Naga)
MvP vs NesTea :: 2-0 (W. Shakuras || W. Steppes)
MvP vs Idra :: 2-0 (W. Scrapstation || W. Delta Quadrant)

On December 22 2010 23:37 CalmDown.Breathe wrote:


to be honest, i think fruitdealer had the right idea in the first gsl which is better ways of delivering banelings. all Pros agree that the burst damage of the banelings are the only things to counter marine medivac which heals at an absurd rate + high dps. baneling drop on top of bio forces while lings engage and mutas pick off tanks would be ideal. zergs need to be more all in ish imo in the mid to late game. theres no point in having 5k minerals stacked up if you lose everything. go for an all in lose all your ovie drop. reduce drone count to 45 ish through spine crawlers / sacrifice and have a larger ling count. 100 food worth of cracklings = 200 . thats a lot.

On December 22 2010 23:41 dtz wrote:


Yes you are right in your last paragraph. People figure out new things all the time.

As I said in the other thread. There has been no significant changes since 1.2 ( MLG DC) and at that time IdrA said "there is NOTHING that a Terran can do against me" now he is the one saying that Zerg are helpless.

I thought that statement was too bold at that time and i think he would agree to it.

I am not saying that there is balance now . I am just saying that with how fast people are figuring things out all the time. There is no way for the game to be balanced all the time. Some undeserving players will end up winning GSL and a lot of money by exploiting these "imbalances of the moment" but in the long run who knows if it was really imbalanced.

On December 22 2010 23:49 IdrA wrote:

i said i didnt think id lose to a terran for a month, not that the matchup was actually zerg favored.

On December 22 2010 23:45 BahlSofsTiil wrote:
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/vod/1230

IMmvp vs oGsZenio. IMmvp wins game one but Zenio wins the series using zerglings, roaches, banelings, mutalisks, infestors, broodlords and ultralisks against marine, marauder, medivac, tank, vikings and thors. He takes advantage of the tank immobility, spreads creep all over, and uses drops.

You say these things don't work but here is a video where anyone can see that it can. Control and decision making beats any perceived imbalance. Today, IMmvp played better than basically every player in the world.

IMmvp was a beast, today. Too bad he hit MC in the first round of GSL3. I would love to see more games from him.

On December 22 2010 23:49 IdrA wrote:

i said i didnt think id lose to a terran for a month, not that the matchup was actually zerg favored.

On December 23 2010 00:05 derppp wrote:

thats a lie, i clearly remember u saying in interview zerg is favored after 1.2 patch

On December 22 2010 23:59 Ultramus wrote:


I watched those games and I think many would agree that MVP played considerably better tonight than during that series.

I would actually agree that baneling infestor vs clumped marines was pretty absurd.

The issue with micro deciding balance is that there is that zerg lack any units capable of being utilized in some new and unique way due to micro. Banelings only roll into their enemies, lings are melee as well. Roaches can't shoot and not get shot due to their limited range. I've thought that maybe infestors would really become more prevalent in the matchup as templar tech has gone in vogue in PvT but that has clearly not been the case.

As per my previous posts, I'm willing to admit that nothing is wrong if anyone can give me a reasonable solution. Does anyone think that had it not been made impossible 5 rax reaper would have fallen out of favor? I'm sure my frustration is showing in my responses but it seems like the only thing that ever changes in the game is new ways for the other races to kill zerg, or do it better, whereas we have been using the same strategies since beta, I'd say what we are seeing is the discrepancy that has always been in the game, just that the other races are being fleshed out at a slower pace then zerg was, which is understandable when you factor in the wider breadth of viable builds.

On December 23 2010 00:05 derppp wrote:

thats a lie, i clearly remember u saying in interview zerg is favored after 1.2 patch

MLG: Are you pleased with the way the patch is working out so far?

Idra: Yes, definitely. I believe ZvT is pretty close to balanced right now—it’s actually going to seem Z>T for a while as bad Terrans disappear and the remaining ones have to adapt to a new style of play.