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On October 09 2010 07:30 Cranberries wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 07:28 kojinshugi wrote:On October 09 2010 07:24 kasumimi wrote:
So once T was a PF expansion up it can't be broken unless you have a massive advantage?
Reminds me of War3 and SK|ToD's disgusting tower defense.
Yes, you generally need a massive advantage to walk into a superior force and destroy his primary mining base. It's the only AoE terran has in that matchup, because tanks are nullified by phoenixes. The PF wasn't even hitting anything, Colossi outrange it. It was just a building being repaired half the time. Ehm? It's not the damage the Planetary Fortress deals that ruins the game, it's the flow that is ruined. If it was an Orbital Command and not a Planetary Fortress, Kiwi would have won there and then. 5 Colossi and 5 Stalkers would have beaten the non-Planetary Fortress expansion and the forces, and it would have been down to 2v3 bases, or 2v2 bases if Kiwi's gold was countersniped.
What imaginary flow are you talking about? The game flowed just fine. It was one of the best matches I've witnessed today.
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On October 09 2010 07:28 Tuke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 07:23 zemiron wrote:
Does anyone know what time it starts tomorrow? Event Time: 03:30 KST Sat 20:30 CEST Sat 14:30 EDT Sat 11:30 PDT Sat 21:30 EEST You can see it in the calendar , just little bit to right, above the streams.
Thanks, I didn't see it when I check a few minutes ago.
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On October 09 2010 07:23 zemiron wrote:
Does anyone know what time it starts tomorrow?
look at the top left of your screen maybe.
edit : nice' fail, it was top right :D
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On October 09 2010 07:30 EzoGooD wrote:
Kiwi didnt get outplayed, he did wat eh could do with that army .... he did FINE, just fenix played good to with a better army combo....
Not having the right army = being outplayed.
This is an RTS, not Diablo II.
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On October 09 2010 07:29 Crissaegrim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 07:25 mcleod wrote:
do you realize that you dont have to kill the PF, go around it and kill his main
jesus its not that hard
no idea why kiwi continue to engage it, simply could of went from left side and GG the game Listen, he had a PF at the GOLD expansion. His main was mined out. Killing his main would have been less than efficient compared to trying to stop a gold. Plus if he attacked the main, the terran would have just ran into the toss's gold expo and take that out leaving the toss's eco in the ditch. Actually forget that last part, it didnt matter what Kiwi did, cause the mobility of a terran just steamrolls any sort of strategic play that kiwi could do.
He could have targeted the SCVs repairing and won, he was seriously attacking that PF for about a minute.
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ESL has Murder beating Huk. hmmmm
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1-1 Drewbie and Suggy right now.
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On October 09 2010 07:33 Pudge_172 wrote:
ESL has Murder beating Huk. hmmmm
Is this for real?? sweet :D
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On October 09 2010 07:32 Bloodba7h wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 07:30 Cranberries wrote:On October 09 2010 07:28 kojinshugi wrote:On October 09 2010 07:24 kasumimi wrote:
So once T was a PF expansion up it can't be broken unless you have a massive advantage?
Reminds me of War3 and SK|ToD's disgusting tower defense.
Yes, you generally need a massive advantage to walk into a superior force and destroy his primary mining base. It's the only AoE terran has in that matchup, because tanks are nullified by phoenixes. The PF wasn't even hitting anything, Colossi outrange it. It was just a building being repaired half the time. Ehm? It's not the damage the Planetary Fortress deals that ruins the game, it's the flow that is ruined. If it was an Orbital Command and not a Planetary Fortress, Kiwi would have won there and then. 5 Colossi and 5 Stalkers would have beaten the non-Planetary Fortress expansion and the forces, and it would have been down to 2v3 bases, or 2v2 bases if Kiwi's gold was countersniped. What imaginary flow are you talking about? The game flowed just fine. It was one of the best matches I've witnessed today.
Meh, it was hardly a great game. Fenix had a well fortified position and then ran around harassing with Kiwi running around like a headless chicken while Fenix dictated the 'flow'. The game was extremely one sided, I can't see what was so good about it.
Felt too much like Fenix playing with Kiwi without being at any real risk.
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On October 09 2010 07:31 kojinshugi wrote:
Yes, because Planetary fortresses poop out armies if your production buildings get destroyed. I think that upgrade is like 25/25 and researched in an ebay.
didn't we see how well base-trading goes down for protoss JUST TODAY? (suggy vs murder)
I really don't/didn't wanna join this balance-discussion-"gruesomeness" but how can you possibly suggest that protoss is just supposed to commit to an all-in when terran gets a PF at gold up? is this what you'd like to see in the future instead of long, intense back and forth macro-battles?
On October 09 2010 07:32 Bloodba7h wrote:
What imaginary flow are you talking about? The game flowed just fine. It was one of the best matches I've witnessed today.
I think you need really much terran-bias to agree on this - we have indeed seen many great games, the amazing comeback from murder vs suggy in game 3 comes to my mind, but this was just utterly boring to watch; it was dead obvious kiwikaki was gonna lose unless fenix would make a big blunder after kiwikaki got his gold nexus sniped and fenix managed to save his PF;
there was no real back and forth at all, basicly it was fenix bleeding kiwikaki out until he realized he could all-in now anyway because there was no real chance for him getting back into the game
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On October 09 2010 07:34 trevabob wrote:Is this for real?? sweet :D
They could have put it in wrong. They did get one match wrong earlier and fixed it
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On October 09 2010 07:33 Pudge_172 wrote:
ESL has Murder beating Huk. hmmmm
if thats true, then go murder!
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On October 09 2010 07:35 Pudge_172 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 07:34 trevabob wrote:On October 09 2010 07:33 Pudge_172 wrote:
ESL has Murder beating Huk. hmmmm Is this for real?? sweet :D They could have put it in wrong. They did get one match wrong earlier and fixed it
It is wrong.
Huk beat Murder 2-1
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On October 09 2010 07:35 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 07:35 Pudge_172 wrote:On October 09 2010 07:34 trevabob wrote:On October 09 2010 07:33 Pudge_172 wrote:
ESL has Murder beating Huk. hmmmm Is this for real?? sweet :D They could have put it in wrong. They did get one match wrong earlier and fixed it It is wrong. Huk beat Murder 2-1
bugger 
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On October 09 2010 07:32 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 07:30 EzoGooD wrote:
Kiwi didnt get outplayed, he did wat eh could do with that army .... he did FINE, just fenix played good to with a better army combo.... Not having the right army = being outplayed. This is an RTS, not Diablo II.
So your dumb I take it... he had colossi vs the marines, he had sentries for the rauders with he colossi and FF, he had phoenix for the siege tanks and vikings.... HE DID EVERYTHING he could with the ARMY he had, if kiwi went HT and not that many colossi i bet we would have a different outcome. AS I SAID, the ARMY COMBO he had , he played PERFECT with. But as a TERRAN, the ARMY COMBO he had , HE PLAYED BETTER WITH. Every game terran has marines and rauders, he just used them smartly to win the game. u cant split up ur colossi , or they all die , u cant take all your stalkers to one spot or vikings kill the colossi , do u see what im saying, with what KIWI had , he played FINE with.
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On October 09 2010 07:32 Bloodba7h wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 07:30 Cranberries wrote:On October 09 2010 07:28 kojinshugi wrote:On October 09 2010 07:24 kasumimi wrote:
So once T was a PF expansion up it can't be broken unless you have a massive advantage?
Reminds me of War3 and SK|ToD's disgusting tower defense.
Yes, you generally need a massive advantage to walk into a superior force and destroy his primary mining base. It's the only AoE terran has in that matchup, because tanks are nullified by phoenixes. The PF wasn't even hitting anything, Colossi outrange it. It was just a building being repaired half the time. Ehm? It's not the damage the Planetary Fortress deals that ruins the game, it's the flow that is ruined. If it was an Orbital Command and not a Planetary Fortress, Kiwi would have won there and then. 5 Colossi and 5 Stalkers would have beaten the non-Planetary Fortress expansion and the forces, and it would have been down to 2v3 bases, or 2v2 bases if Kiwi's gold was countersniped. What imaginary flow are you talking about? The game flowed just fine. It was one of the best matches I've witnessed today.
If I expand first my army is weaker, so I have a 60 second risk window, and a further risk of the expansion being under attack from harassment so you need to defend.
If I successfully expand I am now in front.
You then expand to get even. You have a 60 second risk window, and a further risk of the expansion being under attack from harassment so you need to defend.
If you successfully expand and break even with me, we are even.
I expand a second time during a time where that 400 minerals could mean I lose. I get up my expansion and the Planetary Fortress and begin to catch up. There is zero risk because I have a Planetary Fortress and outside of Colossi, it cannot be attacked head on due to worker priority mechanics.
The flow is that when you expand you are at risk because you have to defend +1 expansions, and need to defend more locales. A Planetary Fortress nullifies this. As I said, if it was an Orbital Command and was attacked Fenix would have lost.
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I love how some terrans here think it's in anyway viable to just ignore the PF in that situation. You've clearly stumbled upon some wonderful knowledge and should immediately call Kiwikaki that the PF is dangerous and he should go around it.
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On October 09 2010 07:26 DonKey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 07:24 question wrote:
Lol it doesnt matter if it was PF or OC. that PF was out of range that collasus army..... ^ this is very true it wasn't the fact that it was a PF that stopped kiwi from killing it , it was the repairing from the scvs that kept it alive.
I'm not gonna discuss balance, Kiwi made some bad decissions and Fenix deserved the win - but this is just nonsense. The fact that it was a PF stopped Kiwi from both getting closer to kill off the scvs(there were no tanks up at that time) and attacking with his group of sentries/stalkers. An OC would have gone down instantly.
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watch korean pvt they always leave 2-3 zealots + ht in expansions in case of drops
also kiwi never made any cannons not to mention how many times he got lured into some silly battle with his whole army to lose his gold expansion to few marauders and marines lol
just look at the last battle even thought fenix had huge upgrade and economical advantage he lost in few seconds his whole army to coloses (even tho he was P forced to attack camping terran which put him in huge disadvantage), if kwi didnt fuck up whole game, exped like normal person and didnt lose 10 nexuses in the process fenix wouldnt have a counter to this army.
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United States22883 Posts
On October 09 2010 07:29 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 07:25 Jibba wrote:On October 09 2010 07:22 Cranberries wrote:On October 09 2010 07:19 Jibba wrote:On October 09 2010 07:18 Cranberries wrote:
Seriously, this game was ruined because you can't engage Planetary Fortresses. There were 5 Colossi against a Planetary Fortress and 10-12 Barracks units, and it couldn't be broken. It's just ridiculous and it really does just ruin a flow of a game. Then don't attack the Planetary Fortress. Nevermind that Fenix was 3/1 and Kiwi was 0/0/0. What? I'm talking about when Fenix was 1/1 and Kiwi was 0/0. Besides, Infantry upgrades don't improve the upgrades on a Planetary Fortress. It's just sick how good they are. You'd need around 10~ Cannons to have the same lifespan of a Planetary Fortress, which would cost 1500 minerals compared to the 150/150 of the Planetary Fortress. They're just a boring thing and totally destroy any game flow. Back and forth games are fun, that game was going to be back and forth - and then the Planetary Fortress went up and that was game over. If you can't attack an expansion, that's ridiculous. He tried to 1a into a fortified position. If this is BW, the P army would've been annihilated by siege tanks. This is no different. Fenix outplayed him with several feints that Kiwi bit on every single time. Well, in BW terran isn't allowed to split his army up into small squads to take out bases and still defend his own expansion. ;P
Sure they can. It takes a daring T to try it, but Dropship marines is still pretty deadly in BW. Either way, the only reason it was allowed is because Kiwi was out of position every time.
Fenix sends 6 vikings to the back so all the phoenix leave. Fenix sends 6 marauders to the right so Kiwi's entire army shifts over.
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EPT
