EPTIf you think cheese is too strong, don't hate the player, hate the game.
[GSL] Open S1 - Ro32 Day 4 - Page 149
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Gorguts
Canada254 Posts
If you think cheese is too strong, don't hate the player, hate the game. | ||
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Zakka
Netherlands762 Posts
Personally, I think Tester will roflstomp him : D | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On September 21 2010 02:00 Gorguts wrote: Wow, stop with the Hyperdub hate. If you think cheese is too strong, don't hate the player, hate the game. Some people are lactose intolerant, is all. Moving on - Hyperdub says he wins against Tester on ladder quite often in his interview; I wonder how Tester is feeling about that. *edit* damn you above, for moving on before i moved on! | ||
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keeblur
United States826 Posts
On September 21 2010 02:00 Gorguts wrote: Wow, stop with the Hyperdub hate. If you think cheese is too strong, don't hate the player, hate the game. ^ Can't blame the player for using what is given to him. Albeit it was risky, but so are a lot of things in sports. You take a risk and hope to be rewarded, but if it doesn't work you are bit in the ass. | ||
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
 GOGO Check! | ||
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ChApFoU
France2983 Posts
(I ain't going to root for that dude though :p) | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
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Flare23
United States27 Posts
The whole game is based off of figuring out how to counter your opponent, whether in terms of unit composition, timed attacks, meta-game, expansions. And the early game proxies are simply 1 strategy out of many. It is meant to succeed against some strategies, and it would fail against others. If "cheese" was eliminated, then all play style would have to be exactly the same, because any deviation from the "norm", would be considered "cheese". Everyone knows that boxer was well know for his innovations, he was infamous for his bunker rushes, marine micro against lurkers, and tank drops. All those were early game strategies that dominated his opponents. TLO is also well-known for his early game innovations, single reaper, hellion use, etc. I think all of it is very entertaining and fair. Especially in looking at the match today between TLO and Hyperdub, both were terran, both operated under the exact same set of rules, in the same environment, the only difference might be that they spawned at different location in the map and that perhaps Hyperdub had home court advantage since the tournament was in Korea. There was nothing unfair about any of the strategies used, both were excellent players who competed in a game, of which, naturally forced players to choose between various strategies in an attempt to out-smart one another. | ||
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Marl
United States694 Posts
"We're here with hyperdub who eliminated the fan favorite...." ffffuuuuu- With no foreigners now, I feel like I've lost all my hype for the tournament | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
On September 21 2010 02:30 Flare23 wrote: What most player term as "cheese" are simply a early game strategy focused on punishing players who are implementing mid game strategies and crippling players who are teching for macro strategies. The whole game is based off of figuring out how to counter your opponent, whether in terms of unit composition, timed attacks, meta-game, expansions. And the early game proxies are simply 1 strategy out of many. It is meant to succeed against some strategies, and it would fail against others. If "cheese" was eliminated, then all play style would have to be exactly the same, because any deviation from the "norm", would be considered "cheese". Everyone knows that boxer was well know for his innovations, he was infamous for his bunker rushes, marine micro against lurkers, and tank drops. All those were early game strategies that dominated his opponents. TLO is also well-known for his early game innovations, single reaper, hellion use, etc. I think all of it is very entertaining and fair. Especially in looking at the match today between TLO and Hyperdub, both were terran, both operated under the exact same set of rules, in the same environment, the only difference might be that they spawned at different location in the map and that perhaps Hyperdub had home court advantage since the tournament was in Korea. There was nothing unfair about any of the strategies used, both were excellent players who competed in a game, of which, naturally forced players to choose between various strategies in an attempt to out-smart one another. It's not about how early the attack comes. What's annoying is that it's done blindly. The only thing Hyperdub knows is TLO's position on the map. Hyperdub has no idea when TLO is going to discover Hyperdub's build and Hyperdub has no idea what build TLO is doing. There are many ways that could have gone wrong for Hyperdub and he wasn't doing anything to prevent them all. I do agree that the word "cheese" does not make discussion any more productive and it probably makes discussion less productive. People ought to discuss what happened without labeling things too broadly because the game is too complex. Taking shortcuts with all-encompassing words and phrases usually prevents discussion from making any good progress. | ||
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nukkuj
Finland403 Posts
Game one was insanely epic match thought, I wonder how many fans he already has in korea.  | ||
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ChApFoU
France2983 Posts
On September 21 2010 02:30 Flare23 wrote: What most player term as "cheese" are simply a early game strategy focused on punishing players who are implementing mid game strategies and crippling players who are teching for macro strategies. The whole game is based off of figuring out how to counter your opponent, whether in terms of unit composition, timed attacks, meta-game, expansions. And the early game proxies are simply 1 strategy out of many. It is meant to succeed against some strategies, and it would fail against others. If "cheese" was eliminated, then all play style would have to be exactly the same, because any deviation from the "norm", would be considered "cheese". Everyone knows that boxer was well know for his innovations, he was infamous for his bunker rushes, marine micro against lurkers, and tank drops. All those were early game strategies that dominated his opponents. TLO is also well-known for his early game innovations, single reaper, hellion use, etc. I think all of it is very entertaining and fair. Especially in looking at the match today between TLO and Hyperdub, both were terran, both operated under the exact same set of rules, in the same environment, the only difference might be that they spawned at different location in the map and that perhaps Hyperdub had home court advantage since the tournament was in Korea. There was nothing unfair about any of the strategies used, both were excellent players who competed in a game, of which, naturally forced players to choose between various strategies in an attempt to out-smart one another. Not to take anything from Hyperdub victory (see my post above) but the strategy he used in game 3 was not an early game strategy focused on blablabla : it was a classic do-or-die all-in build, kinda like a 4 pool rush in BW, that would have resulted in a disaster if TLO had scouted bottom first. It's success was very highly based on luck, a lot more than a hidden banshee or hidden void ray (which some already consider as cheese). That being said, it's part of the game and will always be and there's nothing unfair in that but can't expect ppl to not be dissapointed when the 3rd game of a great serie ends like that, esp when the guy who looses is a fan favorite. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11075 Posts
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Pekkz
Norway1505 Posts
On September 21 2010 02:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote: It's not about how early the attack comes. What's annoying is that it's done blindly. The only thing Hyperdub knows is TLO's position on the map. Hyperdub has no idea when TLO is going to discover Hyperdub's build and Hyperdub has no idea what build TLO is doing. There are many ways that could have gone wrong for Hyperdub and he wasn't doing anything to prevent them all. He had made up his mind about proxy even before he found him. He sent an early scv out with a 33% chance of winning , and 66% chance of getting behind. TLO had just massiv bad luck with sending his scv the wrong way AND getting close positions=[ | ||
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revoN
Japan804 Posts
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roliax
135 Posts
The rax seems like it came down too early to be process of elimination...and if he scouted TLO's base, shouldn't TLO have seen it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't be scouted without knowing that you were scouted because scvs has same vision. | ||
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sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
On September 21 2010 02:52 Pekkz wrote: He had made up his mind about proxy even before he found him. He sent an early scv out with a 33% chance of winning , and 66% chance of getting behind. TLO had just massiv bad luck with sending his scv the wrong way AND getting close positions=[ this exactly. dup was pretty lucky and that's it. any other position and he wouldve been way behind and probably even lost the game he would have to build the barracks on the gold minerals if it weren't cloe postitions. barracks woul've been built later and a longer way. | ||
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Lighioana
Norway466 Posts
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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Ym1r
United States1164 Posts
On September 21 2010 02:52 Pekkz wrote: He had made up his mind about proxy even before he found him. He sent an early scv out with a 33% chance of winning , and 66% chance of getting behind. TLO had just massiv bad luck with sending his scv the wrong way AND getting close positions=[ If it was an early SCV, <was it that early?> shouldn't TLO have suspected something? Also, people need to stop hating Hyperdub just because he cheesed and beat your beloved TLO. Why do I get the feeling if he played another person it would've been claimed as "a smart move" to a guy who did the same build over and over again. | ||
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