EPTBTW for those crying about cheese, defending against it actually requires a lot of presence of mind. For example Tester should have been out of that tournament with that almost unbeatable two gate in game 3 of his matches, but he really showed why he is so good in that match. Of course his opponent made a couple of mistakes but he capitalized on that and pulled off an impossible win. I guess thats what separates the good players from the really good players...
[GSL] Open S1 - Ro32 Day 4 - Page 147
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
|
WickedBit
United States343 Posts
BTW for those crying about cheese, defending against it actually requires a lot of presence of mind. For example Tester should have been out of that tournament with that almost unbeatable two gate in game 3 of his matches, but he really showed why he is so good in that match. Of course his opponent made a couple of mistakes but he capitalized on that and pulled off an impossible win. I guess thats what separates the good players from the really good players... | ||
|
JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:30 SKtheAnathema wrote: does scouting thoroughly for proxies and stuff set you back a lot? i'm actually pretty curious. i'm starting to think it's a bigger gamble to assume your opponent is not going to proxy you... especially in korea where it was done multiple times in the same tournament. this is my argument to people who keep saying hyperdub took a big gamble and won by luck and not skill... it seems like a bigger gamble to pretend proxies aren't an option. not only that, but TLO did this same proxy FTW vs dimaga recently  he should've been careful, especially game 3 on metalopolis where we've seen these rushes so much.Dunno bout terran, but early scout drone can throw off the timing for zerg - i found that out the hard way | ||
|
Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:30 SKtheAnathema wrote: does scouting thoroughly for proxies and stuff set you back a lot? i'm actually pretty curious. i'm starting to think it's a bigger gamble to assume your opponent is not going to proxy you... especially in korea where it was done multiple times in the same tournament. this is my argument to people who keep saying hyperdub took a big gamble and won by luck and not skill... it seems like a bigger gamble to pretend proxies aren't an option. not only that, but TLO did this same proxy FTW vs dimaga recently he should've been careful, especially game 3 on metalopolis where we've seen these rushes so much.Its impossible to scout every place a proxy could go. | ||
|
Woozyman
19 Posts
Well it's only season 1, more GSL to come and TLO won't disappoint. If he's smart he won't QQ like most here are doing, but take this lost and learn from it. Perseverance, dedicating and hard work and TLO will reach the finals. I really wished I could have seen the TLO interview, I like that he was smiling, it shows the mark of a true player. | ||
|
Ome
Canada157 Posts
The one thing I'm worried about is that when that 1st prize is on the line, in the final 8 final 4 etc, the players will start relying heavily on those all in cheesy strats and it will really hurt the quality of the product being presented. Time will tell. | ||
|
vnlegend
United States1389 Posts
Looks like Koreans are better both at standard/mechanical play and aggressive/strategic play. gg foreigners | ||
|
RinconH
United States512 Posts
If someone is too greedy or techs too hard, "cheese" is the flipside of the coin. | ||
|
teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:47 RinconH wrote: Cheese is what balances the game. If someone is too greedy or techs too hard, "cheese" is the flipside of the coin. The word you're looking for is aggressive play... not cheese. If TLO had scouted his enemy's base and saw no raxes, he could've just plopped a bunker at his ramp and instantly won the game or at least come out miles ahead. Cheese depends entirely on an enemy not scouting it, and loses if it does get seen. | ||
|
HuHEN
United Kingdom514 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:42 vnlegend wrote: TLO is trying too much cute stuff which the other guy responds by just attacking and killing him. It also seems like Koreans have a diversity of builds for specific maps while foreigners are doing the same stuff over and over, being predictable, and losing. Looks like Koreans are better both at standard/mechanical play and aggressive/strategic play. gg foreigners Idra lost because of a silly scouting error and TLO lost to a cheese, it hardly sounds like an insurmountable skill gap to me, not to mention how few foreigners actually took part in the tournament. | ||
|
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:51 HuHEN wrote: Idra lost because of a silly scouting error and TLO lost to a cheese, it hardly sounds like an insurmountable skill gap to me, not to mention how few foreigners actually took part in the tournament. Hyperdub was clearly the better player in the series, sure he made one bad decision in game 1 and that ultimately lost him the game because of how TvT works, but he still was way, way better than TLO pretty much everywhere else. If he had just played the lameass way and made a million turrets and quad-expanded after containing TLO in game one, there's no way he'd have lost. | ||
|
Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:54 Shikyo wrote: Hyperdub was clearly the better player in the series, sure he made one bad decision in game 1 and that ultimately lost him the game because of how TvT works, but he still was way, way better than TLO pretty much everywhere else. If he had just played the lameass way and made a million turrets and quad-expanded after containing TLO in game one, there's no way he'd have lost. you don't proxy cheese your opponent when it's all on the line because you're way better than your opponent. | ||
|
mmdmmd
722 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:57 travis wrote: you don't proxy cheese your opponent when it's all on the line because you're way better than your opponent. You do because your opponent is thinking the same thing. Mind games edit: Not saying that TLO's opp is way better than him. But in general. | ||
|
teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:54 Shikyo wrote: Hyperdub was clearly the better player in the series, sure he made one bad decision in game 1 and that ultimately lost him the game because of how TvT works, but he still was way, way better than TLO pretty much everywhere else. If he had just played the lameass way and made a million turrets and quad-expanded after containing TLO in game one, there's no way he'd have lost. Which is why TLO is higher ranked than Hyperdub in the oGs house... and he ended up doing an all-in proxy build in the final game. Just look at how a player who cheesed his way into the Ro32 (DAVIT) ends up getting 100% demolished against straight up solid play from Clide. Like it wasn't even close, Clide was probably 10x better. Sure, DAVIT took out NEXGenius 2-0, but can anyone really say that he was he was the better player? | ||
|
vnlegend
United States1389 Posts
TLO nuked a ton of times which didn't do anything except cost mins/gas AND the ghosts died. There were maybe only 2 useful nukes, 1 killed vikings and the other delayed the other guy's army so TLO can take out his expo. It may have been better to send in cloaked ghosts behind enemy lines and nuke at various expos. Since hyperdub had all his defenses at the front and many expos, he may miss the nukes. The frontal nukes were too easily predictable. I'm not too sure of the Thor opening, mass marauders could've rolled him over in any early game. Anyway, what would've happened if TLO played vs Clide or Top? Those players are incredibly resilient, have great macro and strategy, and would probably easily defeat TLO's strategy. | ||
|
Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On September 21 2010 01:01 mmdmmd wrote: You do because your opponent is thinking the same thing. Mind games edit: Not saying that TLO's opp is way better than him. But in general. no... you still don't. because if you're way better than your opponent then cheesing is an unnecessary risk. the fact is that hyperdub is not way better than TLO and it is stupid to say so. | ||
|
Slunk
Germany768 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3595/p080l93dq2.jpg) User was warned for this post | ||
|
Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On September 21 2010 00:57 travis wrote: you don't proxy cheese your opponent when it's all on the line because you're way better than your opponent. Well he did say that after game 1 he knew he'd win. I think he saw TLO use that BO twice and he knew he'd win close to 100% with that proxy rush. It's like the BO he used vs Losira. If it went to G3 and Losira rushed TLO because of how late his rax was would it really be because he was worried he'd lose or would it be because he thought he'd almost always win with it. | ||
|
bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:02 Shatter wrote: What? As long as you play within the rules of the game, any strategy is 100% fine. You play to win, not for respect. Sportsmanship has nothing to do with ingame actions. People dont understand that players play for win, cute play won't give you any money, wining does. | ||
|
DarkspearTribe
568 Posts
| ||
|
teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On September 21 2010 01:07 Sfydjklm wrote: Well he did say that after game 1 he knew he'd win. I think he saw TLO use that BO twice and he knew he'd win close to 100% with that proxy rush. How do you not understand that as SOON as TLO scouts either the proxy raxes or Hyperdub's main in time, he could build a bunker at his ramp and safely defend for a massive advantage? Doing a proxy build like that is basically taking a huge gamble that may or may not pay off. For sure not even close to 100%, more like 50% seeing as how TLO has two paths to scout, either top or bottom first and he chose the wrong one. | ||
| ||
