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On September 20 2010 23:30 Tonyoh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 22:44 ZeaL. wrote:On September 20 2010 22:35 Arceus wrote:
if cheese was accepted and loved in BW, why not the same in SC2 ? If it was TLO who cheesed, fanbois woulda been like "wow, TLO must have some steel neurons for risking cheesing at deciding game omg dub got humiliated omg" Cheese is something that divides people. Just look at Kwanro. Or even the last OSL thread. Generally speaking if its a no name thats cheesing its "cheesy motherfucker" and if its an S-class its "brilliant" play. Yeah thats what I think too =) Cheesing is just like a big raise when you are third to bet with 76s at poker. You take high risk, but reward/risk ratio is quite good, so thats why its interesting to do =) Or like a 3bet with nothing. In short cheesing is good, but not always as its easily countered. I would say I cheese 15% of the time and this does work fairly well. great series and hope to see more from both players in the future =) Still a bit sad it was the last non-korean in the tournament.
User was warned for this post
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guess it was good i didn't call sick today 
don't worry TLO, your still the winner in my eyes <3
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On September 20 2010 22:28 Twiggy123 wrote:
that's pro cheese
What? This is done all the time on ladder; there's nothing unique or special about it. It makes cheesing significantly more powerful at any level.
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So does that mean all foreign players made a lost in terms of money from this GSL trip? This might have a bad effect on any future sponsoring. I think most sponsor requires you to achieve a certain performance level as part of the deal.
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It is the will of the gods... Koreans are better than everyone else...
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On September 20 2010 23:20 Unain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 23:17 Veldril wrote:
Artosis: Do you lose because you contracted chicken pox and could not practice?
TLO: No, that's absolutely not true.
Artosis: Wow, man. I'm trying to get an out man.
TLO: That's would be totally horrible, man.
That's why I like you, TLO. Keep on practicing and I will keep on cheering you. The last line was: TLO: That's not how I roll, man 
Woots, thank for the correction. It's pretty hard for non-English native speaker to listen to other non-English native speaker sometimes
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Cheesing is a completely legit strategy. I don't do it myself but just because I don't see it as a good strat doesn't make it any less viable. It's possible to stop but unfortunately in this case TLO decided to not take the precautions against it and he paid the price.
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On September 20 2010 22:24 Fa1nT wrote:
It's like Hyperdub owes the bank 500$, and instead of working for it, he rolled the dice at a casino and won big.
I'm sorry, but when you are a skilled player vs another skilled player and you resort to luck to win instead of playing the game with your skill, it just seems highly disrespectful to both your opponent and the fans of the game.
GG hyperdub, even if you lose to Tester, at least you and Lotze showed IdrA and TLO that koreans love them some 5 minute games and that you have to scout every spot every match or you will lose.
...it's not like that at all.
I think it's a bit naive to simplify down the situation to something like that. Other factors like mental state, being on tilt etc. come into play. Maybe Hyperdub saw a weakness in TLO's playstyle that left him open for a switch-up in tactics? It wasn't a gamble; it was more a calculated risk that hyperdub took, that paid off. That's where the skill is, not just in the execution of the build.
And besides, you have to scout in every game regardless, or you will lose..?
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So sad that TLO is out but he will come back stronger for sure.
Don't hate on Hyperdub, his cheese was a great move and if TLO would have scouted like Clide did
in his games it would have been no problem. I don't think he will make that mistake again.
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On September 21 2010 00:01 entocheets wrote:
And besides, you have to scout in every game regardless, or you will lose..?
Clearly not, as a lot of the players have NOT been scouting so throughly that they could stop any cheese. It's just so few have been attempted except by protoss. And DAVIT, but we see how that turned out, stomping Genius.
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On September 20 2010 22:42 aru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 22:38 XDsCrazy wrote:
Can anyone here tell me they think Jeadong is bad ? no one right ?
But he still 4 pooled Flash twice in a row in the last OSL final ! To be fair, Jaedong has proven to the world that he can macro with the best. So his "cheesing" is strategic genius! The majority of TL probably didn't even know who Hyperdub is before he was matched against TLO.
Hyper proved he could play a long/macro/micro game with TLO in the first 2 set of the series so the argument that this guy cant play at TLO's level in a normal game in invalid.
We can the assume he did a good strategic move.
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oGsInca on why he cannon cheesed - "The first game was very tough and I didn't want to go through another long game again"
Maybe the above can give you guys hints on why Hyperdub cheesed.
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On the plus side, the first game was the most increidbl comback and game of TvT ive ever seen. Everyone should definitly check it out when its released as a Vod
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Fuckkk that was so unlucky by TLO 
If he scouted close positions first, he would've noticed no rax then immediately placed a bunker on ramp, guaranteeing the win. Sighhhhh
1st game though was definitely most epic game of SC2, ever. Brought tears to me eyes.
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On September 20 2010 21:23 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 21:22 DminusTerran wrote:
Wow terrible cheese defense by TLO. badluck that he scouted it last. there was nothing he could do at that point.
Whats even worse is that he scouted the wrong way, on that map you scout to bottom first.
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On September 20 2010 21:51 Angra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 21:49 Censured wrote:
I really dont get people who say: hyperdub cheesed = no credit for him? Didn't you guys watch OSL finals between Flash and Jaedong? It was freakin cheese fest, and still these two guys are most beloved progamers ever... I don't think most people in this thread know that a BW forum even exists.
and its sad none of these new players know who boxer is
he created a huge following with his bunker rushes, proxies, and what not.
one of the cheesiest players when he felt like it, but he is THE MOTHER FUCKING EMPEROR
yeah.
dont hate.
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United Kingdom12023 Posts
This is more a question, related to the GSL and not so much the TLO game, but has anyone else noticed if you ladder like, directly after the games, if any cheese was used during the GSL, everyone all of a sudden starts cheesing?
I just got cheesed the three games I played in a row, once by each different race. I have no idea why, but it always seems to happen.
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does scouting thoroughly for proxies and stuff set you back a lot? i'm actually pretty curious. i'm starting to think it's a bigger gamble to assume your opponent is not going to proxy you... especially in korea where it was done multiple times in the same tournament. this is my argument to people who keep saying hyperdub took a big gamble and won by luck and not skill... it seems like a bigger gamble to pretend proxies aren't an option.
not only that, but TLO did this same proxy FTW vs dimaga recently he should've been careful, especially game 3 on metalopolis where we've seen these rushes so much.
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Just watched the series. Man, I know that's the game and a win is a win but seeing TLO going down with a proxy barracks after such an amazing game 1 T_T
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EPT
