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On September 02 2010 20:25 Teddyman wrote:
So many people just want everything for free... Stupid arguments like "now I can't introduce new people to SC2", as if there wasn't thousands of hours of commentaries available and 5-30 live streams running any given time of the day. I agree that it's overpriced, the $30 option should have both the live stream and the VODs. Most people who catch it live won't sit down and watch the VODs all over again, so bandwidth costs won't increase much. They should provide at least a 700+ kbps stream, since they streamed 300kbps for free. Now it is most likely a smaller audience so bandwidth shouldn't be a problem.
People say that they don't have money and that advertisements should cover the broadcasting costs, but they don't realize that ads only work because people actually buy the products advertised. If the audience hasn't got any money, nobody will want to advertise to that audience. Ads also work much better if they are targeted. You can clearly see how the MLG ads are targeted towards American college students. ESL is a bit more global, and it also has Intel as a sponsor who wouldn't necessarily want to pay for advertising in 2 different global SC2 tournaments. ESL also has long presentations that sometimes interrupt the matches. The list of sponsors that want to advertise globally to gamers but aren't already doing so might not be that long.
Traditional sports can be streamed for free (ad-supported) because 90% of their audience doesn't just immediately pull the "I am really fucking broke" card.
The point I was trying to make about introducing new players to the scene was that the game is new and in my opinion the esports community and organizers would benefint from the scene having a lower threshold for entering into. They should concentrate on building a market in the beginning and then working on getting more money through premium deals and premium content later on. Yes there are many smaller venues that are free, but it is this sort of big, professional, hyped event that might tip the scale for many people to try watching once and see if it fits them.
Imo its Blizzard that has the responsibility for promoting sc2 as an esport and they should force gomtv to provide a free, standard quality, stream.
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this is really disheartening...
whats worse is knowing the future of esports is kinda in the hands of people like this and there's nothing we can do about it
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what a pity. i won't watch it.
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While they're at it, they should limit their web-page to registered and paying users only.
After all - viewing web content costs them bandwidth.
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Russian Federation5 Posts
On September 02 2010 18:07 rAize- wrote:
As everyone here screams that e-sports should become bigger and better. You pay to watch professional sports(Sky-sports anyone?) etc...You dont pay to watch everygame just like in sc. You dont pay for every game you could possibly watch, its a step further to professional e-sports and its a company...why not charge money if you see this serious. No need to whine. Accept it or dont.
who the fuck do you think you are.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On September 02 2010 20:34 Bear4188 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 19:22 nam nam wrote:On September 02 2010 19:05 Aurdon wrote:On September 02 2010 18:07 rAize- wrote:
As everyone here screams that e-sports should become bigger and better. You pay to watch professional sports(Sky-sports anyone?) etc...You dont pay to watch everygame just like in sc. You dont pay for every game you could possibly watch, its a step further to professional e-sports and its a company...why not charge money if you see this serious. No need to whine. Accept it or dont. You don't pay for MLB, NFL, NBA, or NHL. You don't pay for the Olympics or World Cup. You advertise and broadcast it free. IEM, MLG, and other eSports companies find a way to do this. Why can't GOMTV? So nhl center ice... don't cost money? People must be doing something wrong then. NHL Center Ice: $80 for 40 games/week from October to April, professional players far beyond the level of anything BW or SC2 has yet seen, professional announcers, production/stat/interview teams of dozens of people, full 1080p HD broadcasts. Why would you even begin to compare that to GOM's stream?
the bolded part was a bit of an overkill, but basicly, yes
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On September 02 2010 20:25 Teddyman wrote:
So many people just want everything for free... Stupid arguments like "now I can't introduce new people to SC2", as if there wasn't thousands of hours of commentaries available and 5-30 live streams running any given time of the day. I agree that it's overpriced, the $30 option should have both the live stream and the VODs. Most people who catch it live won't sit down and watch the VODs all over again, so bandwidth costs won't increase much. They should provide at least a 700+ kbps stream, since they streamed 300kbps for free. Now it is most likely a smaller audience so bandwidth shouldn't be a problem.
People say that they don't have money and that advertisements should cover the broadcasting costs, but they don't realize that ads only work because people actually buy the products advertised. If the audience hasn't got any money, nobody will want to advertise to that audience. Ads also work much better if they are targeted. You can clearly see how the MLG ads are targeted towards American college students. ESL is a bit more global, and it also has Intel as a sponsor who wouldn't necessarily want to pay for advertising in 2 different global SC2 tournaments. ESL also has long presentations that sometimes interrupt the matches. The list of sponsors that want to advertise globally to gamers but aren't already doing so might not be that long.
Traditional sports can be streamed for free (ad-supported) because 90% of their audience doesn't just immediately pull the "I am really fucking broke" card.
I'm sorry but that's just wrong. If you think no company wants to advertise to 16-25 y/o students because they are "broke" (don't want to pay 50$ a season (a month?) for a - not even hd - stream/vods) you have no idea how much money is behind this demographic group. I do understand that it might not be that easy to find good sponsors, especially for the first season, but I'm pretty positive that with a free-stream (which may be include being in the red for the first season) the sponsors would come when they see a huge amount of viewers. It would be way better for a long term business plan.
Of course some risk is involved. But risk is always involved.
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On September 02 2010 20:34 Bear4188 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 19:22 nam nam wrote:On September 02 2010 19:05 Aurdon wrote:On September 02 2010 18:07 rAize- wrote:
As everyone here screams that e-sports should become bigger and better. You pay to watch professional sports(Sky-sports anyone?) etc...You dont pay to watch everygame just like in sc. You dont pay for every game you could possibly watch, its a step further to professional e-sports and its a company...why not charge money if you see this serious. No need to whine. Accept it or dont. You don't pay for MLB, NFL, NBA, or NHL. You don't pay for the Olympics or World Cup. You advertise and broadcast it free. IEM, MLG, and other eSports companies find a way to do this. Why can't GOMTV? So nhl center ice... don't cost money? People must be doing something wrong then. NHL Center Ice: $80 for 40 games/week from October to April, professional players far beyond the level of anything BW or SC2 has yet seen, professional announcers, production/stat/interview teams of dozens of people, full 1080p HD broadcasts. Why would you even begin to compare that to GOM's stream?
Uhm I wasn't comparing it to anything or the the one saying "You don't pay for MLB, NFL, NBA, or NHL." You know, the post I was responding to... I only pointed out YOU DO PAY TO WATCH NHL ONLINE. If you don't you are watching an illegal stream or the occasional free game that usually are ip blocked to north america.. How hard is that to figure out?
Don't get me wrong I don't support GOMTV on this, but if people want to use something to argue their pov, then at least make sure it's correct...
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On September 02 2010 21:21 Mortician wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 20:34 Bear4188 wrote:On September 02 2010 19:22 nam nam wrote:On September 02 2010 19:05 Aurdon wrote:On September 02 2010 18:07 rAize- wrote:
As everyone here screams that e-sports should become bigger and better. You pay to watch professional sports(Sky-sports anyone?) etc...You dont pay to watch everygame just like in sc. You dont pay for every game you could possibly watch, its a step further to professional e-sports and its a company...why not charge money if you see this serious. No need to whine. Accept it or dont. You don't pay for MLB, NFL, NBA, or NHL. You don't pay for the Olympics or World Cup. You advertise and broadcast it free. IEM, MLG, and other eSports companies find a way to do this. Why can't GOMTV? So nhl center ice... don't cost money? People must be doing something wrong then. NHL Center Ice: $80 for 40 games/week from October to April, professional players far beyond the level of anything BW or SC2 has yet seen, professional announcers, production/stat/interview teams of dozens of people, full 1080p HD broadcasts. Why would you even begin to compare that to GOM's stream? the bolded part was a bit of an overkill, but basicly, yes
The better point is that NHL games are still on TV for free, especially local games, and the Stanley Cup playoffs. If GOM had made their main broadcasts free, and then you could pay for a whole bunch of other games that were casted, and the VODs, then that would be more acceptable.
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The $20 livepass seems to be a waste of money when GOMs europe connection can't handle more than 250kbps.
Maybe I'll get the vod package although $30 is a bit steep.
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On September 02 2010 21:54 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 21:21 Mortician wrote:On September 02 2010 20:34 Bear4188 wrote:On September 02 2010 19:22 nam nam wrote:On September 02 2010 19:05 Aurdon wrote:On September 02 2010 18:07 rAize- wrote:
As everyone here screams that e-sports should become bigger and better. You pay to watch professional sports(Sky-sports anyone?) etc...You dont pay to watch everygame just like in sc. You dont pay for every game you could possibly watch, its a step further to professional e-sports and its a company...why not charge money if you see this serious. No need to whine. Accept it or dont. You don't pay for MLB, NFL, NBA, or NHL. You don't pay for the Olympics or World Cup. You advertise and broadcast it free. IEM, MLG, and other eSports companies find a way to do this. Why can't GOMTV? So nhl center ice... don't cost money? People must be doing something wrong then. NHL Center Ice: $80 for 40 games/week from October to April, professional players far beyond the level of anything BW or SC2 has yet seen, professional announcers, production/stat/interview teams of dozens of people, full 1080p HD broadcasts. Why would you even begin to compare that to GOM's stream? the bolded part was a bit of an overkill, but basicly, yes The better point is that NHL games are still on TV for free, especially local games, and the Stanley Cup playoffs. If GOM had made their main broadcasts free, and then you could pay for a whole bunch of other games that were casted, and the VODs, then that would be more acceptable.
So if the gsl games are free in Korea how is this any different for us Europeans when it comes to the nhl? We can't watch it for free on us channels and it cost to watch it legally on the internet.
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On September 02 2010 21:58 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 21:54 tree.hugger wrote:On September 02 2010 21:21 Mortician wrote:On September 02 2010 20:34 Bear4188 wrote:On September 02 2010 19:22 nam nam wrote:On September 02 2010 19:05 Aurdon wrote:On September 02 2010 18:07 rAize- wrote:
As everyone here screams that e-sports should become bigger and better. You pay to watch professional sports(Sky-sports anyone?) etc...You dont pay to watch everygame just like in sc. You dont pay for every game you could possibly watch, its a step further to professional e-sports and its a company...why not charge money if you see this serious. No need to whine. Accept it or dont. You don't pay for MLB, NFL, NBA, or NHL. You don't pay for the Olympics or World Cup. You advertise and broadcast it free. IEM, MLG, and other eSports companies find a way to do this. Why can't GOMTV? So nhl center ice... don't cost money? People must be doing something wrong then. NHL Center Ice: $80 for 40 games/week from October to April, professional players far beyond the level of anything BW or SC2 has yet seen, professional announcers, production/stat/interview teams of dozens of people, full 1080p HD broadcasts. Why would you even begin to compare that to GOM's stream? the bolded part was a bit of an overkill, but basicly, yes The better point is that NHL games are still on TV for free, especially local games, and the Stanley Cup playoffs. If GOM had made their main broadcasts free, and then you could pay for a whole bunch of other games that were casted, and the VODs, then that would be more acceptable. So if the gsl games are free in Korea how is this any different for us Europeans when it comes to the nhl? We can't watch it for free on us channels and it cost to watch it legally on the internet.
Thats a good point. I would have liked a scalling pay system that allows user to ease into the service (first season 5 $ and free vods, next 10/5 for vods, up to their intended goal) that was shown to everyone from the start. That way we could get a cheap season or two, appreciate the service as GOMTV wants to supply it, and then at least we would feel like it was worthy of our hard earned cash.
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In near future Gretech will understand that ads > premium system, and ads+premium system>premium system and we will all watch VODs in normal quality with ads.
By that time we will watch stolen stuff.  m'kay.
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I guess that in a perfect world Gretech would just develop a p2p streaming system for Gom player and use that to stream at maybe 10% of the cost (for them). Then have a free stream and a HQ premium stream. And Chill said it, having someone who actually knows something about the western ESPORTS scene would help them a lot.
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I woke up this morning with an email from TorcH. He has somehow managed to get a meeting with the GOMtv CEO in regards to the streaming responses. I quickly mailed back because it sounded like the meeting was this very early this morning but it's now been postponed until tomorrow.
I honestly have no idea if this is just a "we'll listen but that's about it" type of meeting, or if they are serious about finding a solution, but I'm going to unload a ton of contacts and suggestions to TorcH to see if they would be willing to go with anything.
Thanks to TorcH for looking out and hopefully something can come from it.
UPDATE: I've sent TorcH an email with a ton of suggestions and I've also mailed the founder of UStream to try to get something to happen here. I don't know if this is all for show or what... but it sounds like the massive amounts of criticism has them at least paying some attention.
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It feels to me that they don't really believe there to be a market outside of Korea and any service they provide to foreigners is only for the hardcore fans that they expect will pay anything they ask.
They have sponsors and business models that work in Korea, but they don't believe they can build the esports market in the west and don't seem to have any confidence that they can get targetted sponsors for the western market. And have no intention of trying to invest in building a future market. Hence they provide the stream only for the select few that are willing to pay. Sadly their stream will just end up pirated instead.
At least that is my take on their motivation, might be completely wrong.
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On September 02 2010 22:25 djWHEAT wrote:
I woke up this morning with an email from TorcH. He has somehow managed to get a meeting with the GOMtv CEO in regards to the streaming responses. I quickly mailed back because it sounded like the meeting was this very early this morning but it's now been postponed until tomorrow.
I honestly have no idea if this is just a "we'll listen but that's about it" type of meeting, or if they are serious about finding a solution, but I'm going to unload a ton of contacts and suggestions to TorcH to see if they would be willing to go with anything.
Thanks to TorcH for looking out and hopefully something can come from it.
UPDATE: I've sent TorcH an email with a ton of suggestions and I've also mailed the founder of UStream to try to get something to happen here. I don't know if this is all for show or what... but it sounds like the massive amounts of criticism has them at least paying some attention.
Thanks man! Great your supporting the community! Lets hope the effort is worth it! Also great to see TorcH is trying to help although he has to prepare for his important matches!
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God damnit... I was so excited for GSL and now I'm not going to see much of it
What a disappointment GOM TV.
/stare daggers
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On September 02 2010 22:25 djWHEAT wrote:
I woke up this morning with an email from TorcH. He has somehow managed to get a meeting with the GOMtv CEO in regards to the streaming responses. I quickly mailed back because it sounded like the meeting was this very early this morning but it's now been postponed until tomorrow.
I honestly have no idea if this is just a "we'll listen but that's about it" type of meeting, or if they are serious about finding a solution, but I'm going to unload a ton of contacts and suggestions to TorcH to see if they would be willing to go with anything.
Thanks to TorcH for looking out and hopefully something can come from it.
UPDATE: I've sent TorcH an email with a ton of suggestions and I've also mailed the founder of UStream to try to get something to happen here. I don't know if this is all for show or what... but it sounds like the massive amounts of criticism has them at least paying some attention.
Thanks for all your efforts djwheat
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Lets hope TorcH is able to put a few things in perspective for those Gom-TV people.
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EPT
