EPTAlso, should I not bother with blinding cloud against colossus/stalkers and only use viper energy for abducting only? Even when fgoing head to head with 200/200 armies, with me being a base or 2 up on the toss, I still find my army gets demolished after only killing a fraction of his. My vipers die right off the bat, and my hydras and ultras fall very quickly to colossus/voids/ht/carriers/archons, leaving only my burrowed swarmhosts, which get cleaned up shortly thereafter. Maybe it's just terrible micro on my part, but I feel like I need to engage in a perfect position to make this composition work. I am not good at abducting/clouding with vipers and burrowing/repositioning my swarmhosts while trying to get a concave for my hydras while the Protoss just a-moves and maybe casts a storm or 2 to much greater effect.
[G] First Overview of HotS Zerg - Page 14
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Frankie Teardrop
United States74 Posts
Also, should I not bother with blinding cloud against colossus/stalkers and only use viper energy for abducting only? Even when fgoing head to head with 200/200 armies, with me being a base or 2 up on the toss, I still find my army gets demolished after only killing a fraction of his. My vipers die right off the bat, and my hydras and ultras fall very quickly to colossus/voids/ht/carriers/archons, leaving only my burrowed swarmhosts, which get cleaned up shortly thereafter. Maybe it's just terrible micro on my part, but I feel like I need to engage in a perfect position to make this composition work. I am not good at abducting/clouding with vipers and burrowing/repositioning my swarmhosts while trying to get a concave for my hydras while the Protoss just a-moves and maybe casts a storm or 2 to much greater effect. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 29 2013 10:17 Frankie Teardrop wrote: I've been having trouble with the hydra/ultra/sh/viper comp vs Protoss deathballs. I usually try to tech to hive around 12:00. At this time +1/+1 is done and +2/+2 is starting, the hydra and locust upgrades are finishing up, and I am starting to pump about 20 hydras and 12 swarm hosts. Once I hit hive, I usually get a few vipers (and extra evos to consume) before starting my ultralisks cavern. Is this a good order to build my army in, or should I start making ultras before vipers? Also, should I not bother with blinding cloud against colossus/stalkers and only use viper energy for abducting only? Even when fgoing head to head with 200/200 armies, with me being a base or 2 up on the toss, I still find my army gets demolished after only killing a fraction of his. My vipers die right off the bat, and my hydras and ultras fall very quickly to colossus/voids/ht/carriers/archons, leaving only my burrowed swarmhosts, which get cleaned up shortly thereafter. Maybe it's just terrible micro on my part, but I feel like I need to engage in a perfect position to make this composition work. I am not good at abducting/clouding with vipers and burrowing/repositioning my swarmhosts while trying to get a concave for my hydras while the Protoss just a-moves and maybe casts a storm or 2 to much greater effect. Yes you want to focus the abducts on the colossi. The colossi if you can abduct them and get rid of them it's just sooo much easier to engage the late game protoss army. Honestly the late game engagement goes to how both of you control, does protoss feedback vipers? No? Does zerg control vipers to not get feedbacked, have ultras in front? It really is all about the control from both players which is better then wol style where it was just if zerg spread bl/corr/infestor he was fine  .but yeah don't worry about blinding cloud  . | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On March 28 2013 17:11 d07.RiV wrote: I'm seeing a few players use ling/roaches in ZvP and completely ignoring air, meanwhile building a fair amount of queens and spreading creep across the map. When ultras are out, push with ultra/ling/queens, as the latter do very good against voidrays, much better than hydras, and can also keep ultras alive. I've watched a GM zerg do this with ~75% winrate and it looked pretty much unstoppable unless facing some sort of 4gate all-in. I also saw some of games like this, and actually is pretty funny how good it seems. You just skip everything, go for 3-4 bases, and just tech straight up to the Hive, with just Speedlings and Roaches, and go Ultras instantly while massing Queens. You will have superior ground army because of the Ultralisks, and because he went skytoss, and mass Queens do really well, with their high range(7) against air, 175 hp for 150 minerals, and they aren't armored. That together with transfuse, I think that they beat Voids cost per cost pretty convincingly. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 29 2013 17:17 Ramiz1989 wrote: Blade, what do you think about what d07.RiV said? I also saw some of games like this, and actually is pretty funny how good it seems. You just skip everything, go for 3-4 bases, and just tech straight up to the Hive, with just Speedlings and Roaches, and go Ultras instantly while massing Queens. You will have superior ground army because of the Ultralisks, and because he went skytoss, and mass Queens do really well, with their high range(7) against air, 175 hp for 150 minerals, and they aren't armored. That together with transfuse, I think that they beat Voids cost per cost pretty convincingly. To be honest I am not a fan. With what I do zvp now I rarely lose in a macro game and I see no reason to change it when I win most of the time. I used to do this in beta though fast ultra, it has some vulnerabilities if protoss is keeping tabs on your hive timing and unit count. I am not a big fan of this at all and mass queens I was never a fan of and could never do it due to how boring/slow the unit is. I also don't struggle versus sky toss it's a pretty easy win for me and I rarely lose in the late game so no reason for me to want to try something I know I don't like but I imagine it's strong as most protosses wouldn't expect it. | ||
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Juggernaut477
United States379 Posts
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Purce
Italy31 Posts
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Xardov
12 Posts
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On March 30 2013 00:11 Xardov wrote: Hey! Yesteday I was watching IdrA's stream, and he talked about using corruptors in ZvZ. Seeing as they are quite tanky, and that the main strategy in ZvZ is to do mutalisk, I'd want to see your opinion on them being any reliable. For now, I only get them when I feel far behind, and use all my excess minerals to deny my opponents third, but once that goes down they tend to switch to hydra muta force, which basically makes all my corruptors useless. So what do you think? Are corruptors useful on ZvZ? Well, corruptors basically mean your muta/corruptor pack sacrifices its speed. Your opponent will never have to fight your flock straight on, and can pick off expansions left and right. So.. I'd say no. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 30 2013 02:46 Henk wrote: Well, corruptors basically mean your muta/corruptor pack sacrifices its speed. Your opponent will never have to fight your flock straight on, and can pick off expansions left and right. So.. I'd say no. This. I mean maybe it is fine, but if you go corruptors your mobility is going to be no where near as good as the pure muta player. I feel like it wouldn't be good, but there is always a chance it is. On March 29 2013 23:25 CMMBL wrote: And if they add some carriers and there are no colossi, what is the best composition to destroy their army? Vipers + hydra and swarmhost/ultra same thing. Swarmhost/ultra to take care of templar, vipers to abduct colossi and hydra shoot them . | ||
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MrSourGit
England135 Posts
Really miss WoL , the steps and transitions that happened , now it's just long bling , into long bling muta , such a shame  ! | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 31 2013 03:47 MrSourGit wrote: Thanks for the guide , ZvZ is my main problem . Don't like the new muta style , Really miss WoL , the steps and transitions that happened , now it's just long bling , into long bling muta , such a shame ! Guess I am one of a kind I hated wol zvz so much I love hots zvz compared to wol tbh | ||
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
Masters Z from WoL who just picked up HotS. Simple question: what maps should I veto? I know a "real" competitive player would play all maps but I am a casual hack who just wants to play games most favorable to Z style. Thanks and fantastic guide. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 31 2013 08:35 IPA wrote: Hi Blade - Masters Z from WoL who just picked up HotS. Simple question: what maps should I veto? I know a "real" competitive player would play all maps but I am a casual hack who just wants to play games most favorable to Z style. Thanks and fantastic guide. Nah even a real competitive player vetos shit maps . I veto newkirk and korhal compound. I like the rest of the maps. | ||
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nekigosu
17 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 31 2013 12:37 nekigosu wrote: how do u deal with mass tempest? hydra/swarmhost/viper/ultra. Honestly tempests aren't that scary, mass voidray is 10x scarier then mass tempests imo. | ||
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nekigosu
17 Posts
On March 31 2013 13:31 blade55555 wrote: hydra/swarmhost/viper/ultra. Honestly tempests aren't that scary, mass voidray is 10x scarier then mass tempests imo. but there is ground support for protoss with zealots and stalkers and my hydras couldn't even get in range of the tempest to snipe them | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 31 2013 13:37 nekigosu wrote: but there is ground support for protoss with zealots and stalkers and my hydras couldn't even get in range of the tempest to snipe them That's why there are vipers | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On March 31 2013 13:37 nekigosu wrote: but there is ground support for protoss with zealots and stalkers and my hydras couldn't even get in range of the tempest to snipe them And that is why he said Ultras and Swarm Hosts, that will clear everything on the ground easily. | ||
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LoreSC
Bulgaria4 Posts
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Stardroid
United Kingdom159 Posts
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