EPTWhat are your thoughts on it vs your recommended style?
[G] First Overview of HotS Zerg - Page 15
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
What are your thoughts on it vs your recommended style? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 31 2013 22:21 LoreSC wrote: I just dont understand why to start +1 melee first rather than range in video vs colossus/voidray. Didnt build any melee untis so isnt +1 range better? That video is old, I get +1 missile first now. On April 01 2013 01:39 Stardroid wrote: Why in the zvz builds are you staggering the gasses so closely to each other? Why not get 3 more with lai at 0600? I am not sure what you are talking about I start lair 5:50 - 6 minutes with 1 gas, then get gases 2 and 3 as soon as lair starts, 20 seconds later I get my 4'th gas. On April 01 2013 04:27 Xorphene wrote: Some Zergs who are giving coaching recommend roach hydra viper in ZvP, but I feel this style is too open to one bad engagement and you lose. What are your thoughts on it vs your recommended style? My thoughts on it are it's a really bad composition. Honestly zergs need to be shying away from roach/hydra, it's just not very good at all versus a good protoss who knows how to deal with it imo. I think swarmhost/roach/hydra is far, far superior to roach/hydra/viper or roach/hydra/corruptor or anything except with swarmhosts. I get mainly hydra with swarmhost, but do have a few roaches to tank and what not along with the locusts. Once late game hits though roaches don't get made anymore and it's ultra/hydra/swarmhost/viper. I feel this composition will soon be "standard" as zergs realize it crushes tempest/voidray/templar and all those death balls it can fight straight up as long as the zerg engages properly. | ||
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DysonCube
United Kingdom4 Posts
Are WoL style roach plays entirely untenable in the current metagame even if mutalisks aren't scouted? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 01 2013 04:58 DysonCube wrote: With ZvZ as my worst matchup I dislike the idea of ling/bling wars continuing into the midgame. How far has HOTS actually shifted the ZvZ metagame? Are WoL style roach plays entirely untenable in the current metagame even if mutalisks aren't scouted? It really is the best way to play. Not going mutalisks right now in hots is putting yourself behind if the muta player plays correctly. If you as the zerg go straight hydra then you will just die to muta/ling/bane sense the infestors will be super late. | ||
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DysonCube
United Kingdom4 Posts
On April 01 2013 05:00 blade55555 wrote: It really is the best way to play. Not going mutalisks right now in hots is putting yourself behind if the muta player plays correctly. If you as the zerg go straight hydra then you will just die to muta/ling/bane sense the infestors will be super late. Thanks man. I better learn to micro mutalisks then. If my opponent goes mutalisks as well as me would I be better to just continue along with mutalisk wars rather than teching to infestor? (Sorry by the way I pretty much have no clue about HOTS) | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 01 2013 05:09 DysonCube wrote: Thanks man. I better learn to micro mutalisks then. If my opponent goes mutalisks as well as me would I be better to just continue along with mutalisk wars rather than teching to infestor? (Sorry by the way I pretty much have no clue about HOTS) You can do multiple things, you can go muta/ling/bane (which is what I do) or you can do a muta/roach timing into roach/hydra/infestor. That's really up to you. I have been messing with muta/ling/bane and then adding in swarmhosts, but still not sure how I feel about it yet (while teching to get ultralisks to). I don't face non muta play very much so hard to know if what I am trying is good or not  . | ||
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
My thoughts on it are it's a really bad composition. Honestly zergs need to be shying away from roach/hydra, it's just not very good at all versus a good protoss who knows how to deal with it imo. I think swarmhost/roach/hydra is far, far superior to roach/hydra/viper or roach/hydra/corruptor or anything except with swarmhosts. I get mainly hydra with swarmhost, but do have a few roaches to tank and what not along with the locusts. Once late game hits though roaches don't get made anymore and it's ultra/hydra/swarmhost/viper. I feel this composition will soon be "standard" as zergs realize it crushes tempest/voidray/templar and all those death balls it can fight straight up as long as the zerg engages properly. As I thought, cheers Blade. PS: Amazing stream <3 | ||
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DysonCube
United Kingdom4 Posts
On April 01 2013 05:11 blade55555 wrote: You can do multiple things, you can go muta/ling/bane (which is what I do) or you can do a muta/roach timing into roach/hydra/infestor. That's really up to you. I have been messing with muta/ling/bane and then adding in swarmhosts, but still not sure how I feel about it yet (while teching to get ultralisks to). I don't face non muta play very much so hard to know if what I am trying is good or not .So far Plat ZvZ in HOTS for me has just been one cheese after another so it's pretty hard to get a handle on what is good at the moment. Thanks for the help, I guess its time for me to set the AI to straight to air and figure out what the hell I'm doing.  | ||
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
On April 01 2013 04:58 DysonCube wrote: With ZvZ as my worst matchup I dislike the idea of ling/bling wars continuing into the midgame. How far has HOTS actually shifted the ZvZ metagame? Are WoL style roach plays entirely untenable in the current metagame even if mutalisks aren't scouted? I don't like ling/bling into mutas either so I open roach and go for 2base speed roach timing with burrow and +1 attack while taking my third. It hits before mutas are out so you can deny their third. Then I just get a lot of spores and drone like crazy and go for a 3base roach/hydra/infestor push pretty much. It's a bit gimmicky and it probably doesn't work very well against decent players, but it works fine in mid masters. | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 02 2013 02:11 Arisen wrote: what do you do against that super early 888 or whatever proxy reaper? I've never beaten it, they have so many reapers out before you even have any lings and i never seem to make the right number of lings and i either end up way way way behind economically or i just die outright. I haven't lost to proxy 8 reaper yet. The reason is I scout really diligently for proxies and if you scout the proxy you win as an 8/8/8 if you kill the scv and not let the rax complete he's dead. Here's a video show casing zvt bio + widow mine! | ||
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Yunxing
United States3 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 02 2013 03:50 Yunxing wrote: Thanks, blade. This post is very helpful. I'm trying to use the ling/bane/muta to ling/bane/muta/sh against T. I have a question about how many sh should i make to transition to late game against the bio+wm compostion? How many sh is enough to tank the wm attacks since they are quite expensive. I also planning to transition to ultras in late game. I'm still quite confuse about how to use swarm hosts since they are quite immobile and easy to be killed by bio+stim+scan The video goes over most of those questions. 10 swarmhosts is perfect number, ALWAYS have ling/bane support at minimum with the swarmhosts and you still get ultras late game . | ||
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
Thanks. | ||
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Lucoda
Ireland183 Posts
1)ZvP,I push with SH/Hydra/Roach when I get 10 SH. Should I be pushing earlier? Later? How many SH do I want for the late game? How many Ultra/Viper? 2)In ZvZ, I find myself losing constantly to Roach Hydra players. How would you reccomend playing vs that style as a Muta Ling Bane player in ZvZ? Thanks in advance. EDIT: Wow, i'm sorry, just re read the post and saw you answered question 2. Very sorry! | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 02 2013 09:09 LucoxP wrote: Hey blade! I really find your guides helpful and you're so awesome for helping people out!I have some questions. 1)ZvP,I push with SH/Hydra/Roach when I get 10 SH. Should I be pushing earlier? Later? How many SH do I want for the late game? How many Ultra/Viper? 2)In ZvZ, I find myself losing constantly to Roach Hydra players. How would you reccomend playing vs that style as a Muta Ling Bane player in ZvZ? Thanks in advance. EDIT: Wow, i'm sorry, just re read the post and saw you answered question 2. Very sorry! 1. Pushing out once you have 10 SH is a good timing. You want 12-14 swarmhosts late game, 3-5 ultra 4-6 vipers. | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
On April 02 2013 03:21 blade55555 wrote: I haven't lost to proxy 8 reaper yet. The reason is I scout really diligently for proxies and if you scout the proxy you win as an 8/8/8 if you kill the scv and not let the rax complete he's dead. Here's a video show casing zvt bio + widow mine! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TiF6JroWtkE well, pro players lose to this, you can't catch a proxy every single time unless you're sending out 2 early drone scouts or something redonkulous. if he's not in an overlord patch or in view of a watchtower there has to be times where you don't catch him. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 02 2013 14:09 Arisen wrote: well, pro players lose to this, you can't catch a proxy every single time unless you're sending out 2 early drone scouts or something redonkulous. if he's not in an overlord patch or in view of a watchtower there has to be times where you don't catch him. Hm you can if you know the proxy locations. I do drone scout earlier then most pros, seems most zerg pros don't drone scout until 14 or 15 food, I drone scout once I start my overlord and my 10nth drone goes to scout for proxies. There is no reason not to scout it if you scout that early as long as you know the proxy locations. I did forget to say what you should do if you don't scout it so that's my bad sorry about that. The best way to defend against it is to send 3-4 drones, once they get weak on health make them extractors/spore/evo chamber/etc so they don't die (don't forget to cancel). You have to do this until lings pop and that's really the best response if you hatch first. | ||
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Rossie
136 Posts
So much for the theory that Protoss is a noob race that relies on cheese. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 02 2013 16:02 Rossie wrote: Pretty comical how thin this is compared with the corresponding guide for Protoss. So much for the theory that Protoss is a noob race that relies on cheese. lol? Not sure what this has to do with this strategy but you realize that thread was made in november of 2012 right? There was also a huge announcement for it as well. This ones only been out 2 in a half weeks :O. But again what your post has to do with this guide at all is really out of place ^^. | ||
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