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Russian Federation81 Posts
On March 27 2013 14:03 blade55555 wrote:
Just use them to attack bases like the terrans third, 4'th, etc just keep using them aggressively once hive tech is out.
So it's not worth deliberately sacing them in favor of infestors and/or bigger mobile army? Should I be getting ranged upgrades then (we're talking about variations of bio, of course I would be getting ranged upgrades versus mech)?
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Concerning using the ZvP style you detail in order to defend against a sentry/immortal all-in by using swarm hosts, isn't there a variation of the push that hits before swarm hosts come out? I mean, you can get about 4 swarm hosts out around 10:15, no? I've seen in streams GM Protoss players practically reaching the Zerg's third by 9:30 or 9:45. What do you do in this situation?
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On March 27 2013 15:18 TFS wrote:
Concerning using the ZvP style you detail in order to defend against a sentry/immortal all-in by using swarm hosts, isn't there a variation of the push that hits before swarm hosts come out? I mean, you can get about 4 swarm hosts out around 10:15, no? I've seen in streams GM Protoss players practically reaching the Zerg's third by 9:30 or 9:45. What do you do in this situation?
To be honest every GM toss I play does the build horribly. On korea I played 2 tosses who did immortal all in and they can reach your base by about 10 minutes with delaying. It's a let your third die and spine your natural while you wait for the swarmhosts (not TO many spines just enough to defend/delay until swarmhosts are out).
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On March 27 2013 15:20 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 15:18 TFS wrote:
Concerning using the ZvP style you detail in order to defend against a sentry/immortal all-in by using swarm hosts, isn't there a variation of the push that hits before swarm hosts come out? I mean, you can get about 4 swarm hosts out around 10:15, no? I've seen in streams GM Protoss players practically reaching the Zerg's third by 9:30 or 9:45. What do you do in this situation? To be honest every GM toss I play does the build horribly. On korea I played 2 tosses who did immortal all in and they can reach your base by about 10 minutes with delaying. It's a let your third die and spine your natural while you wait for the swarmhosts (not TO many spines just enough to defend/delay until swarmhosts are out).
So, you'd say you crush it pretty convincingly most, if not every time you face it? That's pretty cool. Any chance you could post more replays? I've only seen the one in the OP.
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On March 27 2013 15:42 TFS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 15:20 blade55555 wrote:On March 27 2013 15:18 TFS wrote:
Concerning using the ZvP style you detail in order to defend against a sentry/immortal all-in by using swarm hosts, isn't there a variation of the push that hits before swarm hosts come out? I mean, you can get about 4 swarm hosts out around 10:15, no? I've seen in streams GM Protoss players practically reaching the Zerg's third by 9:30 or 9:45. What do you do in this situation? To be honest every GM toss I play does the build horribly. On korea I played 2 tosses who did immortal all in and they can reach your base by about 10 minutes with delaying. It's a let your third die and spine your natural while you wait for the swarmhosts (not TO many spines just enough to defend/delay until swarmhosts are out). So, you'd say you crush it pretty convincingly most, if not every time you face it? That's pretty cool. Any chance you could post more replays? I've only seen the one in the OP.
I posted a whole replay pack on the previous page you can go also find it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404915
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Hey Blade!
When fighting bio in ZvT. What should my lategame compostion be, if I go for utlras?
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On March 27 2013 17:27 gronnelg wrote:
Hey Blade!
When fighting bio in ZvT. What should my lategame compostion be, if I go for utlras?
Ultra/infestor/ling/bane. Eventually add in broodlords (or you can start broodlords then go ultra your choice).
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Ok.
So infestors are preferable to vipers then? Do you rely on infestors for anti air?
Is it viable ot have both infestors and vipers?
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On March 27 2013 17:59 gronnelg wrote:
Ok.
So infestors are preferable to vipers then? Do you rely on infestors for anti air?
Is it viable ot have both infestors and vipers?
For anti air I am thinking of adding in corruptors to focus medivacs and stuff then morphing them into broods after. I am seeing more zergs doing this and it might be worth doing.
Also yes infestors are preferable because even with blinding cloud terran can still kite your ultras to death so you need a way to keep the units in place so ultras can slaughter them. If you can get both do that, but that is pretty gas intensive.
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On March 27 2013 18:04 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 17:59 gronnelg wrote:
Ok.
So infestors are preferable to vipers then? Do you rely on infestors for anti air?
Is it viable ot have both infestors and vipers?
For anti air I am thinking of adding in corruptors to focus medivacs and stuff then morphing them into broods after. I am seeing more zergs doing this and it might be worth doing. Also yes infestors are preferable because even with blinding cloud terran can still kite your ultras to death so you need a way to keep the units in place so ultras can slaughter them. If you can get both do that, but that is pretty gas intensive.
It is gas intensive, but in the late game where you have 5k/3k, not so much. :D
And you don't have to mass them if you don't have a lot of gas, instead of 10 Infestors, you can go for like 6 Infestors and 3-4 Vipers. It is still much better, especially vs. Bio if you manage to hit both Fungal and Blinding Cloud at the same time.
Btw, watched some of your replays from that thread, I love how you basically go for every unit against Terran. :D
You start with Lings and Roaches, few more Queens for spread, go for Banelings and Mutalisks, transition into Swarm Hosts when you start Hive, go for Vipers and Ultralisks, and then add Brood Lords and Infestors. Almost every unit in the Zerg arsenal except for Hydras(and you even use them in some cases), I love it. Zerg feels great in HotS, I love all of the options! :D
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In ZvZ using the muta guide what do you do if he turtles a little bit with spores and goes roach hydra? Expand and switch to roach hydra infestor?
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On March 27 2013 16:50 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 15:42 TFS wrote:On March 27 2013 15:20 blade55555 wrote:On March 27 2013 15:18 TFS wrote:
Concerning using the ZvP style you detail in order to defend against a sentry/immortal all-in by using swarm hosts, isn't there a variation of the push that hits before swarm hosts come out? I mean, you can get about 4 swarm hosts out around 10:15, no? I've seen in streams GM Protoss players practically reaching the Zerg's third by 9:30 or 9:45. What do you do in this situation? To be honest every GM toss I play does the build horribly. On korea I played 2 tosses who did immortal all in and they can reach your base by about 10 minutes with delaying. It's a let your third die and spine your natural while you wait for the swarmhosts (not TO many spines just enough to defend/delay until swarmhosts are out). So, you'd say you crush it pretty convincingly most, if not every time you face it? That's pretty cool. Any chance you could post more replays? I've only seen the one in the OP. I posted a whole replay pack on the previous page you can go also find it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404915
In that replay pack, you face some type of sentry immortal all-in three times, and lose to it each time. Can you post replays of your style defeating it?
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On March 28 2013 07:23 TFS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 16:50 blade55555 wrote:On March 27 2013 15:42 TFS wrote:On March 27 2013 15:20 blade55555 wrote:On March 27 2013 15:18 TFS wrote:
Concerning using the ZvP style you detail in order to defend against a sentry/immortal all-in by using swarm hosts, isn't there a variation of the push that hits before swarm hosts come out? I mean, you can get about 4 swarm hosts out around 10:15, no? I've seen in streams GM Protoss players practically reaching the Zerg's third by 9:30 or 9:45. What do you do in this situation? To be honest every GM toss I play does the build horribly. On korea I played 2 tosses who did immortal all in and they can reach your base by about 10 minutes with delaying. It's a let your third die and spine your natural while you wait for the swarmhosts (not TO many spines just enough to defend/delay until swarmhosts are out). So, you'd say you crush it pretty convincingly most, if not every time you face it? That's pretty cool. Any chance you could post more replays? I've only seen the one in the OP. I posted a whole replay pack on the previous page you can go also find it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404915 In that replay pack, you face some type of sentry immortal all-in three times, and lose to it each time. Can you post replays of your style defeating it?
On the replays on the korean server honestly all the ones that immo all ind me I wasn't even thinking of them doing it until they moved out and then I kinda died. Need to spine and get swarmhosts out if you are going to do swarmhost otherwise you be dead :p
If beta replays worked I would send you those but alas they dont 
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On March 28 2013 10:22 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 07:23 TFS wrote:On March 27 2013 16:50 blade55555 wrote:On March 27 2013 15:42 TFS wrote:On March 27 2013 15:20 blade55555 wrote:On March 27 2013 15:18 TFS wrote:
Concerning using the ZvP style you detail in order to defend against a sentry/immortal all-in by using swarm hosts, isn't there a variation of the push that hits before swarm hosts come out? I mean, you can get about 4 swarm hosts out around 10:15, no? I've seen in streams GM Protoss players practically reaching the Zerg's third by 9:30 or 9:45. What do you do in this situation? To be honest every GM toss I play does the build horribly. On korea I played 2 tosses who did immortal all in and they can reach your base by about 10 minutes with delaying. It's a let your third die and spine your natural while you wait for the swarmhosts (not TO many spines just enough to defend/delay until swarmhosts are out). So, you'd say you crush it pretty convincingly most, if not every time you face it? That's pretty cool. Any chance you could post more replays? I've only seen the one in the OP. I posted a whole replay pack on the previous page you can go also find it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404915 In that replay pack, you face some type of sentry immortal all-in three times, and lose to it each time. Can you post replays of your style defeating it? On the replays on the korean server honestly all the ones that immo all ind me I wasn't even thinking of them doing it until they moved out and then I kinda died. Need to spine and get swarmhosts out if you are going to do swarmhost otherwise you be dead :p If beta replays worked I would send you those but alas they dont
So, when you do know it's coming and you prepare properly for it like you just mentioned, you have a pretty high success rate against it?
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On March 28 2013 11:32 TFS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 10:22 blade55555 wrote:On March 28 2013 07:23 TFS wrote:On March 27 2013 16:50 blade55555 wrote:On March 27 2013 15:42 TFS wrote:On March 27 2013 15:20 blade55555 wrote:On March 27 2013 15:18 TFS wrote:
Concerning using the ZvP style you detail in order to defend against a sentry/immortal all-in by using swarm hosts, isn't there a variation of the push that hits before swarm hosts come out? I mean, you can get about 4 swarm hosts out around 10:15, no? I've seen in streams GM Protoss players practically reaching the Zerg's third by 9:30 or 9:45. What do you do in this situation? To be honest every GM toss I play does the build horribly. On korea I played 2 tosses who did immortal all in and they can reach your base by about 10 minutes with delaying. It's a let your third die and spine your natural while you wait for the swarmhosts (not TO many spines just enough to defend/delay until swarmhosts are out). So, you'd say you crush it pretty convincingly most, if not every time you face it? That's pretty cool. Any chance you could post more replays? I've only seen the one in the OP. I posted a whole replay pack on the previous page you can go also find it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404915 In that replay pack, you face some type of sentry immortal all-in three times, and lose to it each time. Can you post replays of your style defeating it? On the replays on the korean server honestly all the ones that immo all ind me I wasn't even thinking of them doing it until they moved out and then I kinda died. Need to spine and get swarmhosts out if you are going to do swarmhost otherwise you be dead :p If beta replays worked I would send you those but alas they dont So, when you do know it's coming and you prepare properly for it like you just mentioned, you have a pretty high success rate against it?
Yeah I haven't really faced it much though even in beta it was rare so it's not like I have a lot of games to go by.
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Thanks very much blade for this awesome guide  !
Well, just to be sure... your ZvP build aim to be prepared for all the 10m pushes, and the roach warren and +1 ranged is for the earlier pushes (with speedling / spines) ? Plat noob question here, so sorry if obvious, but ZvP is the only matchup where I have no real game plan / game awareness.
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Russian Federation50 Posts
I'm seeing a few players use ling/roaches in ZvP and completely ignoring air, meanwhile building a fair amount of queens and spreading creep across the map. When ultras are out, push with ultra/ling/queens, as the latter do very good against voidrays, much better than hydras, and can also keep ultras alive. I've watched a GM zerg do this with ~75% winrate and it looked pretty much unstoppable unless facing some sort of 4gate all-in.
In ZvZ using the muta guide what do you do if he turtles a little bit with spores and goes roach hydra? Expand and switch to roach hydra infestor?
I don't like that idea, you're basically playing on his grounds, where he has upgrade and quantity advantage. Stick to ling/muta and abuse your mobility to deny his expansions. You can also engage hydras until there's too many of them, as mutas will be back to full health quite fast. Meanwhile, tech to ultras as they absolutely crush roach/hydra comp.
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On March 28 2013 17:07 RandomQueen wrote:Thanks very much blade for this awesome guide ! Well, just to be sure... your ZvP build aim to be prepared for all the 10m pushes, and the roach warren and +1 ranged is for the earlier pushes (with speedling / spines) ? Plat noob question here, so sorry if obvious, but ZvP is the only matchup where I have no real game plan / game awareness.
Yes, make sure to watch the replays to as it really shows a good way to play zvp
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On March 28 2013 17:23 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 17:07 RandomQueen wrote:Thanks very much blade for this awesome guide ! Well, just to be sure... your ZvP build aim to be prepared for all the 10m pushes, and the roach warren and +1 ranged is for the earlier pushes (with speedling / spines) ? Plat noob question here, so sorry if obvious, but ZvP is the only matchup where I have no real game plan / game awareness. Yes, make sure to watch the replays to as it really shows a good way to play zvp
Ok thanks, I planned to watch them today.
By the way thanks to you my ZvZ is better after like 5-10 match than it was years ago when I stopped playing (~90% Win), and my ZvT is decent for Plat league (~50%). If I catch the idea of your ZvP I will be back in my old ELO in no time. I think you dont need me to continue your job but please do :D !
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Hey guys added and updated a section.
For zvt I added the section muta/ling/bane/swarmhost
+ Show Spoiler +Muta/ling/bane/swarmhost into hive
This is a style I started doing on hots release and is very solid versus bio + widow mine. The past week I have seen korean zergs starting to do this style as well (I know their not copying me).
So the zerg should open up like typical ling/bane/muta. This style will play out just like normal muta/ling/baneling and the zerg should not start adding in swarmhosts until the zerg has 14-16 mutalisks, 2/2 melee and carapace and hive tech. The transition into swarmhosts is to start after this. So once the zerg starts hive the zerg should be adding in 10 swarmhosts. If the zerg uses the swarmhosts correctly by not being overly aggressive with them and put a good distance back, the zerg should hold any bio + widow mine push easily.
The zerg should have mutalisks to deal with any drop play and some ling/bane at a couple bases so that if the mutalisks are out of position the drop can still be dealt with, with minimal damage. Once the zerg has 10 swarmhosts they should be using it to supplement the army and have the locusts draw the fire from widow mines. The zerg can also use them to kill them if they have proper overseer placement.
Now once hive finishes the zerg should be teching to either broodlords or ultralisks. Both work great and going ultra then broodlord then back to ultralisk is a great thing to do. The end game composition is going to be ultra/ling/bane/swarmhost/infestor and the zerg can add in vipers later. If the zerg loses swarmhosts they do not have to remake them, but you shouldn't lose them unless they are out of position so try to avoid that. This is very strong versus the bio widow mine and the zerg can decide not to do this if the zerg is facing marine/tank.
For zvp I updated the late game composition
+ Show Spoiler +Best way to Fight Sky Toss
The composition of templar/voidray/colo or tempest/colo/templar/voidray. The dreaded composition that zergs are struggling versus right now. This is a strategy that I have finally found out how to fight and beat in a head on engagement.If the zerg can deny this composition that's better, but if not the best way to fight it is to go the composition of ultra/hydra/swarmhost/viper.
So the zerg needs to have approximately 12 swarmhosts, 3-5 ultralisks 4-6 vipers, rest hydralisks. The best way to use the composition is to have ultras + swarmhosts locusts go first and then send in hydras with the vipers abducting colossi or the air units. The swarmhost locust + ultralisks will tank damage and kill colossi/templar pretty easily and that leaves just hydralisks which can deal with mass voidray/tempest as long as the zerg can use vipers to abduct as well on tempest/carrier. Now in a straight up 200/200 fight the zerg will lose all the hydralisks, but the remax will crush the left over air of the protoss and thus the zerg will have defeated that unit.
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EPT
