EPT[G] First Overview of HotS Zerg - Page 12
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Simsons2
Latvia73 Posts
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On March 25 2013 16:45 blade55555 wrote: Ok guys this is a little tease of what to expect in my replay pack coming this week. This is a zvp replay of me vs a GM toss (ares is his name). Late game he gets voidray/colo/templar. How does Blade beat that composition!?!?!? Watch the replay. I have NOT lost to this composition yet since beta :D http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?cw56uzt7j7i102j I'll watch this when I can, but overall, do you think your way to play lategame is the right one and should be standard even for pro, or do you think it works because even at high master/GM people makes still a lot of mistakes? Thanks about your answer about ZvT swarmhost, i catch some Sen game where he played like this and it seems to be really a fun way to play. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 25 2013 19:08 Henk wrote: Sorry for posting this again Blade, but I feel like you missed my post and I would really love an answer! Sorry for missing this not sure how I missed this post. I actually started skipping corruptors a week or 2 ago and went straight to vipers. I am going to update my guide with this soon because corruptors suck and delay hive and you don't need them to deal with a colossi push. Pretty much I don't do hydra/ling just hydra and sometimes roaches if I think their going to do a silly push with the swarmhosts. On March 26 2013 02:19 Vanadiel wrote: I'll watch this when I can, but overall, do you think your way to play lategame is the right one and should be standard even for pro, or do you think it works because even at high master/GM people makes still a lot of mistakes? Thanks about your answer about ZvT swarmhost, i catch some Sen game where he played like this and it seems to be really a fun way to play. Yes I think my late game zvp is 1 way to beat it. I think there may be others, but their more boring and last longer then the style I do. I think this will be standard eventually if protosses keep with the current deathball, zergs just need to realize it. I have not lost to voidray/templar/colo since beta and that was before I started doing this composition  | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On March 26 2013 03:21 blade55555 wrote: Sorry for missing this not sure how I missed this post. I actually started skipping corruptors a week or 2 ago and went straight to vipers. I am going to update my guide with this soon because corruptors suck and delay hive and you don't need them to deal with a colossi push. Pretty much I don't do hydra/ling just hydra and sometimes roaches if I think their going to do a silly push with the swarmhosts. So basically you get 10 SH, a lot of hydras (and some roaches), and go for an early hive to get vipers. What would you say is the right amount of vipers before producing ultras? I usually get around 5 vipers. Also, what would you consider the right timing to get hive, assuming a standard game? (As in, ~supply to get it?) I take my upgrades like this; +1 range, when it's almost done add 2 more evos then go for 1/2/1. After that, just 2/2 and 3/3 melee/carapace upgrades. Do you think this is appropriate? Sorry for all these questions, I played some more games today and got into masters again, but I took a demolishing loss vs protoss using this comp. So I'm trying to refine it a little bit:D Thanks!! | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 26 2013 03:33 Henk wrote: So basically you get 10 SH, a lot of hydras (and some roaches), and go for an early hive to get vipers. What would you say is the right amount of vipers before producing ultras? I usually get around 5 vipers. Also, what would you consider the right timing to get hive, assuming a standard game? (As in, ~supply to get it?) I take my upgrades like this; +1 range, when it's almost done add 2 more evos then go for 1/2/1. After that, just 2/2 and 3/3 melee/carapace upgrades. Do you think this is appropriate? Sorry for all these questions, I played some more games today and got into masters again, but I took a demolishing loss vs protoss using this comp. So I'm trying to refine it a little bit:D Thanks!! I get 12-14 swarmhosts, mostly hydras sometimes only hydras it really depends on the protosses unit composition (is he going air? is he just going pure ground?). I get 3-5 vipers normally. I start my hive at 12 minutes, 12:30 latest. I get +1 missile, then add in a second evo and get carapace with it. Sometimes I get a third evo to start melee, but I normally wait till carapace is done upgrading. | ||
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Aelendis
Belgium892 Posts
On March 26 2013 03:35 blade55555 wrote: I get 12-14 swarmhosts, mostly hydras sometimes only hydras it really depends on the protosses unit composition (is he going air? is he just going pure ground?). I get 3-5 vipers normally. I start my hive at 12 minutes, 12:30 latest. I get +1 missile, then add in a second evo and get carapace with it. Sometimes I get a third evo to start melee, but I normally wait till carapace is done upgrading. Noob question: how do you adjust your unit composition in those cases? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 26 2013 04:59 Aelendis wrote: Noob question: how do you adjust your unit composition in those cases? Versus ground no air at all I will add in 5-8 broodlords with viper/ultra/hydra/swarmhost. There wont' be many hydras because hydras aren't very good vs colo/templar when there are no voids no reason to make to many hydra. | ||
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SCRaining
Canada7 Posts
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
i.e. are the gass timings to look for, lord suiciding and all that like in Wings? | ||
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FistsOHeavy
United States1 Post
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InspectorPing
Germany8 Posts
1) How do you keep a mech-terran from taking his third when using your build? Or do you even keep him from doing that or does the contain just cover the fourth and following bases? I never seem to have just enough Units to keep him from getting that base. 2) In ZvZ, is there a trick or a technique for ling/baneling micro? I always try to get one ling to attack the banelings, but I cant click fast enough to remove one from the group and order the rest away. Is this just practice or is there a optimal way to do this? Thanks in advance to everyone who might answer | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 27 2013 02:06 InspectorPing wrote: First of all, thank you for this amazing guide, it helped me quite a lot with my zerg play. Even got into Diamond while studying it and I'm able to keep myself around 50%. Now I have two questions: 1) How do you keep a mech-terran from taking his third when using your build? Or do you even keep him from doing that or does the contain just cover the fourth and following bases? I never seem to have just enough Units to keep him from getting that base. 2) In ZvZ, is there a trick or a technique for ling/baneling micro? I always try to get one ling to attack the banelings, but I cant click fast enough to remove one from the group and order the rest away. Is this just practice or is there a optimal way to do this? Thanks in advance to everyone who might answer 1. You can't stop a meching third base if the mech player plays it correctly. You can however deny a 4'th for a long time most of the time with swarmhost/roach/hydra and then with viper support. 2. Hm just mouse control and selecting, no special trick it's normally practice that helps here. | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
Also one more thing, in my experience if Terran opens Hellions it is good idea to make good amount of Roaches and just go and attack him. I got inspired by expand into 7 Roach but 7 isn't enough. This attack does 2 things - checks if Terran went mech or bio and punishes him for going Hellions, especially if mech was the choice. Jaedong did this in SPL in the first match TL-EG had - http://en.twitch.tv/sc2proleague/c/1779962 This is WoL strategy though but I'm guessing it wouldn't be that hard to adjust this to HoTS. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 27 2013 02:58 beetlelisk wrote: Blade do you have experience with 2rax multiple SCV mutiple bunkers all in? In my experience no later hatch than 14 with 14 pool can work. Also one more thing, in my experience if Terran opens Hellions it is good idea to make good amount of Roaches and just go and attack him. I got inspired by expand into 7 Roach but 7 isn't enough. This attack does 2 things - checks if Terran went mech or bio and punishes him for going Hellions, especially if mech was the choice. Jaedong did this in SPL in the first match TL-EG had - http://en.twitch.tv/sc2proleague/c/1779962 This is WoL strategy though but I'm guessing it wouldn't be that hard to adjust this to HoTS. You can hold with 15 hatch 16 pool just pull drones to try and surround marines while you wait. As for a roach rush, a good terran won't die to it even when opening hellions. It's fine but you do have to do damage and if he has a bunker + repair you could end up behind economically. Now for off topic here is a big replay pack from the korean server guys! http://www.mediafire.com/?q0irnbhcs8g9nr1 | ||
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AyMnRSC2
United States123 Posts
Great guide, very well put together. Massive shout out to you and all who helped you put this together. Looks great, people can get to what they want to see easily, just very well done. Congratulations and keep up the good work!!!! | ||
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Roth
Germany165 Posts
While thanks to your guide my winrates vs Toss and Zerg are about 50% or higher versus Terran I have only about 40%. It really bothers me since ZvT was my best Matchup in WoL. Somehow I adapted your openings pretty good and try to not forget your guide but in the end I mostly end up losing anyways. Am I the only one who has that hard times against Terrans? I know this statement is some kind of useless because you or others of the community can not give me tips because I do not really know my problem vsT. But it had to be said. | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:37 blade55555 wrote: You can hold with 15 hatch 16 pool just pull drones to try and surround marines while you wait. I guess I will try again but smart Terran can have a bunker out of sight fast enough. I really do mean multiple - at least 3 SCVs and all minerals go on bunkers and marines. As for a roach rush, a good terran won't die to it even when opening hellions. It's fine but you do have to do damage and if he has a bunker + repair you could end up behind economically. Now for off topic here is a big replay pack from the korean server guys! http://www.mediafire.com/?q0irnbhcs8g9nr1 I didn't write kill him, just punish. It all comes down to correct number of Roaches. And if he repairs the SCVs can be targeted. Did you see the game I linked? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 27 2013 05:20 AyMnRSC2 wrote: Now if only blade would not rage as much on ladder haha just kidding man. Great guide, very well put together. Massive shout out to you and all who helped you put this together. Looks great, people can get to what they want to see easily, just very well done. Congratulations and keep up the good work!!!! haha yesterday was a bad day in general xD. On March 27 2013 08:06 beetlelisk wrote: I guess I will try again but smart Terran can have a bunker out of sight fast enough. I really do mean multiple - at least 3 SCVs and all minerals go on bunkers and marines. I didn't write kill him, just punish. It all comes down to correct number of Roaches. And if he repairs the SCVs can be targeted. Did you see the game I linked? Well I was saying if a terran sees it coming it shouldn't do much damage and will only work if terran isn't prepared for it or see it coming at all. For the 2 rax comment it all comes down to control, it's hard cause it's so rare so get a terran to practice verse until you get good at it | ||
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Atthasit
Russian Federation81 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 27 2013 14:00 Atthasit wrote: I have a question about ZvT (that matchup that pisses the shit out of me lately). I realise that without GM level unit control swarm hosts are pretty much a must now and I'm perfectly fine with that, they're great midgame. But what do I do with them lategame? That awkward stage of the game when I have 7 bases scattered all over the map and that pesky EZ mode race just drops all of them at the same time. 12-14 SHs do eat into supply a lot, significantly reducing the size of my rolling ball of ultra bane, and being so immobile they look absolutely useless. Do I just sac them? Or is there a better way to use them lategame? Just use them to attack bases like the terrans third, 4'th, etc just keep using them aggressively once hive tech is out. | ||
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