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On April 04 2013 17:02 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 16:58 gronnelg wrote:On April 02 2013 23:49 ArhK wrote:On April 02 2013 23:44 LucoxP wrote:
If you open in ZvZ with 14 pool 15 hatch 15 gas, What do you do when...
1)6-9 pool allin comes?
2)10 pool economic comes?
3)10 pool speedling and/or baneling allin comes? Is it sarcastic ? When 6-10 pool comes you mineral walk until queen or ling poppe, since pool 6 / 9 doesn't use any fast speed ranged unit, like the reaper. When 10 pool baneling comes, it is extremely dicey, I see loads of GM zerg player losing to this so I don't really get your point. What do you mean by mineral walking? Like do you mineral walk to your natural, or do you just pull back the drones closes to his lings, but still in you main mineral line? By mineral walking he is talking about selecting your drones and clicking a mineral patch, this makes them combine themselves in a way and go through units so you can get a surround or avoid the lings getting a surround and killing a bunch of workers.
Right, I guess I was a bit unclear. I know what mineral walking is, but I'm a bit confused as to were you mineral walk to?
Like, do you stay in you main mineral line, and try got get a surround/avoid getting drones killed, or do you minral walk to you natural to completly avoid the lings?
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On April 04 2013 17:55 gronnelg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 17:02 blade55555 wrote:On April 04 2013 16:58 gronnelg wrote:On April 02 2013 23:49 ArhK wrote:On April 02 2013 23:44 LucoxP wrote:
If you open in ZvZ with 14 pool 15 hatch 15 gas, What do you do when...
1)6-9 pool allin comes?
2)10 pool economic comes?
3)10 pool speedling and/or baneling allin comes? Is it sarcastic ? When 6-10 pool comes you mineral walk until queen or ling poppe, since pool 6 / 9 doesn't use any fast speed ranged unit, like the reaper. When 10 pool baneling comes, it is extremely dicey, I see loads of GM zerg player losing to this so I don't really get your point. What do you mean by mineral walking? Like do you mineral walk to your natural, or do you just pull back the drones closes to his lings, but still in you main mineral line? By mineral walking he is talking about selecting your drones and clicking a mineral patch, this makes them combine themselves in a way and go through units so you can get a surround or avoid the lings getting a surround and killing a bunch of workers. Right, I guess I was a bit unclear. I know what mineral walking is, but I'm a bit confused as to were you mineral walk to? Like, do you stay in you main mineral line, and try got get a surround/avoid getting drones killed, or do you minral walk to you natural to completly avoid the lings?
Here is what I do vs early pools: I select a small group of drones (Normally the first 2-3 mineral patches) on the side the lings are coming in and send them away from the lings. If the lings pull out of my mineral line at that point, I do nothing, as there is no reason to delay mining. If the lings continue into my mineral line, about the midway point or so, I select all my drones, mineral walk to the opposite side, and when right on top of the lings, attack move. This should get you a near perfect surround and you can obliterate the lings with minimal losses.
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ZvZ meta is muta vs muta currently, if one of the zergs decides not to go muta, they lose (this is at code S level).
But code S meta bleeds into the ladder sooner or later.
So I was thinking of a way to fix this. I can't post on the blizzard forums but if anybody wants to post it for me so blizz devs see it then please do, just remember to credit me.
Ok:
According to starcraft lore, Hydralisks have poisonous spines. So, they should do bonus damage vs biological. Nothing ridiculous, maybe something like +5 vs biological. This way, they can stand up to mutas. Obviously, it's a difficult balancing act, empower hydras too much and mutas may become useless.
Also, it might make roach hydra decent vs bio terrans.
Another thing about starcraft lore that might be something at least worth thinking about is, hydralisks are capable of travelling up and down vertical surfaces... should they be able to climb up and down cliffs? Or that may make them a super effective reaper?
In any case I think a + X damage to bio for hydralisks would make them worthy of being the mascot for the zerg race.
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On April 04 2013 19:23 Duncaaaaaan wrote:
ZvZ meta is muta vs muta currently, if one of the zergs decides not to go muta, they lose (this is at code S level).
But code S meta bleeds into the ladder sooner or later.
So I was thinking of a way to fix this. I can't post on the blizzard forums but if anybody wants to post it for me so blizz devs see it then please do, just remember to credit me.
Ok:
According to starcraft lore, Hydralisks have poisonous spines. So, they should do bonus damage vs biological. Nothing ridiculous, maybe something like +5 vs biological. This way, they can stand up to mutas. Obviously, it's a difficult balancing act, empower hydras too much and mutas may become useless.
Also, it might make roach hydra decent vs bio terrans.
Another thing about starcraft lore that might be something at least worth thinking about is, hydralisks are capable of travelling up and down vertical surfaces... should they be able to climb up and down cliffs? Or that may make them a super effective reaper?
In any case I think a + X damage to bio for hydralisks would make them worthy of being the mascot for the zerg race.
Well, although I do get your point, it´s not really the damage output hydras have vs mutas that makes it not viable. If the muta player sees the opponent going for hydras instead of mutas, he grabs baneling speed, 2 evos and stops making mutas at ~16. Then you basically grab an early hive and go for ultras. If the roach/hydra player attacks, roll over his hydras with a ton of speedbanes, and let the mutas clean up everything else.
This has worked for me 100% of my zvz vs someone that tried to beat me with roach/hydra (mid master level).
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Hey blade,
I have been practicing your zvp with swarm host pressure, i have some hydralisks with my swarmhosts for protection and obs sniping, the problem i have is warp prism warp ins into my main, how do you go about defending such attacks, do you overbuild static defenses or do you just leave some army in base? I am talking about 8-10 zealots and 1-2 dts
I am diamond level btw, thanks !
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On April 05 2013 11:08 vojnik wrote:
Hey blade,
I have been practicing your zvp with swarm host pressure, i have some hydralisks with my swarmhosts for protection and obs sniping, the problem i have is warp prism warp ins into my main, how do you go about defending such attacks, do you overbuild static defenses or do you just leave some army in base? I am talking about 8-10 zealots and 1-2 dts
I am diamond level btw, thanks !
You do need to have static defense, leave some roach/ling behind and maybe a couple hydra so you can snipe the warp prism. You do need to leave some units + static D or warp prism harass will destroy you.
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So how will the ZvZ metagame develop?
Or will it get stagnant in muta vs muta?
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Hi Blade,
Thank you for posting an excellent guide in your team's forums. I am obviously very fortunate as a Platinum Zerg to have some Grandmaster post a guide to help me not go in blind. I am very appreciative and will use this guide to help my advancement.
Cheers,
- eXe ATHEOTES
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On April 05 2013 14:05 FakeDeath wrote:
So how will the ZvZ metagame develop?
Or will it get stagnant in muta vs muta?
Right now muta vs muta is the best way to play zvz. I am currently in the works of messing with a semi different zvz but I am not sure how viable it is right now as I have had very few sample size with it (2-2 with it so far).
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Sup blade ^_^
Question: when you throw down your hatch in zvt. (3rd) at 36.do you go:
36h
ovie.
mass drones to 44
5th queen (and double gas) to allow the 5th to build then ovie?
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After watching your stream/videos I've started trying swarm host/hydra/ultra/viper ZvP in Masters League, and it's starting to go ok. However, I feel like I always take 5 bases, get a bunch of spores and then just sit there, letting the opponent do whatever they want. I feel like I will just suicide my army if I try to be aggressive with it without spores. I just played a game on Daybreak where I won, but I feel like I had a lead and then let him get back in to the game and getting up that collossus/void ray/templar mix for free. Should I try to camp at the open area at my opponents 4th earlier and get a bunch of spores up there instead of taking my 5 bases fast and be defensive?
If anyone want to give me some feedback on the replay I would be grateful! 
http://drop.sc/318267
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On April 06 2013 06:04 BuiBui wrote:
Sup blade ^_^
Question: when you throw down your hatch in zvt. (3rd) at 36.do you go:
36h
ovie.
mass drones to 44
5th queen (and double gas) to allow the 5th to build then ovie?
No I do 34 Overlord, 36 hatch.
Double gas 6 minutes.
On April 06 2013 06:11 Zheryn wrote:After watching your stream/videos I've started trying swarm host/hydra/ultra/viper ZvP in Masters League, and it's starting to go ok. However, I feel like I always take 5 bases, get a bunch of spores and then just sit there, letting the opponent do whatever they want. I feel like I will just suicide my army if I try to be aggressive with it without spores. I just played a game on Daybreak where I won, but I feel like I had a lead and then let him get back in to the game and getting up that collossus/void ray/templar mix for free. Should I try to camp at the open area at my opponents 4th earlier and get a bunch of spores up there instead of taking my 5 bases fast and be defensive? If anyone want to give me some feedback on the replay I would be grateful! http://drop.sc/318267
You should be being aggressive with hydra/sh and hydra/sh/viper. There is no reason to turtle you should be putting on pressure with sh all the time or if you are being defensive that is being because he is going to attack, if he's not attacking you should be with sh.
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On April 05 2013 11:19 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:08 vojnik wrote:
Hey blade,
I have been practicing your zvp with swarm host pressure, i have some hydralisks with my swarmhosts for protection and obs sniping, the problem i have is warp prism warp ins into my main, how do you go about defending such attacks, do you overbuild static defenses or do you just leave some army in base? I am talking about 8-10 zealots and 1-2 dts
I am diamond level btw, thanks ! You do need to have static defense, leave some roach/ling behind and maybe a couple hydra so you can snipe the warp prism. You do need to leave some units + static D or warp prism harass will destroy you.
do you have any proffered timing where you start to build static defense in bases, like max supply or hive or whatever?
Btw thank you so much for your quick responses, your guide has helped a clueless zerg in ZvP and i am actually starting to win !
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On April 06 2013 06:57 vojnik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:19 blade55555 wrote:On April 05 2013 11:08 vojnik wrote:
Hey blade,
I have been practicing your zvp with swarm host pressure, i have some hydralisks with my swarmhosts for protection and obs sniping, the problem i have is warp prism warp ins into my main, how do you go about defending such attacks, do you overbuild static defenses or do you just leave some army in base? I am talking about 8-10 zealots and 1-2 dts
I am diamond level btw, thanks ! You do need to have static defense, leave some roach/ling behind and maybe a couple hydra so you can snipe the warp prism. You do need to leave some units + static D or warp prism harass will destroy you. do you have any proffered timing where you start to build static defense in bases, like max supply or hive or whatever? Btw thank you so much for your quick responses, your guilde has helped a clueless zerg in ZvP and i am actually starting to win !
Once I start getting a mineral bank I start making static defense :D
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I am not a fan of them because those have to do damage. I prefer 3 base swarmhost imo better and easier to transition out of faster :D.
But it is strong
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On April 06 2013 08:57 blade55555 wrote:I am not a fan of them because those have to do damage. I prefer 3 base swarmhost imo better and easier to transition out of faster :D. But it is strong
Aight. I'm going to try out the 2 base variant to practise being more aggressive/active with my SHs :D
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I'm a bit confused on mutas in zvp. If the toss opens 2stargate, I cant go muta, right?
So at what time do you have to scout for stargates, and what/how do you transition out of mutas?
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Zurich15366 Posts
Wish I had read this before mass laddering the other day
Great job as always TL Strategy!
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After some practice in ZvP, I feel how powerful is SH Hydra in this matchup (when I survive early haha :p).
Thanks in helping me crushing some Protoss !
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EPT
