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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. |
On May 13 2014 08:19 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 08:02 Ben... wrote:On May 13 2014 00:53 SatedSC2 wrote:Also, I've come up against people doing the bloody 2 Rax Reactor/Tech Lab opening again recently. The Terrans I've played have claimed that they have a very good win-rate with it. I guess it's because Protoss have gotten greedier and greedier and have probably crossed over some line that previously made 2 Rax stupid against Photon Overcharge. Every time I've come up against it so far I've been Dark Templar rushing, and so a Dark Templar at my base and a Dark Templar at their base has defended nicely, so I'm wondering how people have fared against it with 1GFE builds. That's assuming anyone else has actually seen it and I haven't just been flukily coming up against the handful of people who do it  I've seen that a lot lately too. I just have been doing the response from back in the day. Rush an immortal and use immortal/sentry/stalker to hold it off. 2-3 sentries minimum so you can split their army up or on certain maps fully forcefield the ramp off if need be. I lost to it a ton at first but now I basically never do anymore. Like literally, I just do a Wings of Liberty-style opening and can hold. On seeing a reactor I blind do this response because it works against this two barracks thing and it is good against that multipronged hellions at natural/mine drop in main build that is common. Do they try and specifically target the nexus down or try and damage it and then attack again and finish it off? That's is what the people I'm facing that do this seem to do. They lose their army to Dark Templar and most of their SCVs to Dark Templar. I've literally not seen it when doing a 1 Gate FE, which is why I was asking. I suppose I will remember that I can do my normal build, but adjust it to get Immortals if I see someone opening with a Reactor 
Actually I got the reactor push today. I delayed my expo and killed his push. He then followed up with a scv pull later in game. If it wasn't for my observer lol I would have been dead. The moment I saw his all in coming I just made a thick pylon wall with just one narrow choke lol. Timed warp, photon overcharge plus colo did the job.
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On May 13 2014 12:13 FreeZEternal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 08:19 SatedSC2 wrote:On May 13 2014 08:02 Ben... wrote:On May 13 2014 00:53 SatedSC2 wrote:Also, I've come up against people doing the bloody 2 Rax Reactor/Tech Lab opening again recently. The Terrans I've played have claimed that they have a very good win-rate with it. I guess it's because Protoss have gotten greedier and greedier and have probably crossed over some line that previously made 2 Rax stupid against Photon Overcharge. Every time I've come up against it so far I've been Dark Templar rushing, and so a Dark Templar at my base and a Dark Templar at their base has defended nicely, so I'm wondering how people have fared against it with 1GFE builds. That's assuming anyone else has actually seen it and I haven't just been flukily coming up against the handful of people who do it I've seen that a lot lately too. I just have been doing the response from back in the day. Rush an immortal and use immortal/sentry/stalker to hold it off. 2-3 sentries minimum so you can split their army up or on certain maps fully forcefield the ramp off if need be. I lost to it a ton at first but now I basically never do anymore. Like literally, I just do a Wings of Liberty-style opening and can hold. On seeing a reactor I blind do this response because it works against this two barracks thing and it is good against that multipronged hellions at natural/mine drop in main build that is common. Do they try and specifically target the nexus down or try and damage it and then attack again and finish it off? That's is what the people I'm facing that do this seem to do. They lose their army to Dark Templar and most of their SCVs to Dark Templar. I've literally not seen it when doing a 1 Gate FE, which is why I was asking. I suppose I will remember that I can do my normal build, but adjust it to get Immortals if I see someone opening with a Reactor Actually I got the reactor push today. I delayed my expo and killed his push. He then followed up with a scv pull later in game. If it wasn't for my observer lol I would have been dead. The moment I saw his all in coming I just made a thick pylon wall with just one narrow choke lol. Timed warp, photon overcharge plus colo did the job.
Interesting. That is what I usually see when they are successful with the reactor thing but don't kill me. The idea being that they do enough damage with the 2rax opening that Protoss is slowed down so much that an SCV pull becomes quite tough to stop.
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It looks like colossus builds get countered hardcore. I'm trying early colossus blink stalkers but the terran pushes before I get enough stalkers to deal with vikings effectively. Is it just better to go 1 colo with no range while getting charge + storm against this type of pushes?
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On May 14 2014 12:11 FreeZEternal wrote:
It looks like colossus builds get countered hardcore. I'm trying early colossus blink stalkers but the terran pushes before I get enough stalkers to deal with vikings effectively. Is it just better to go 1 colo with no range while getting charge + storm against this type of pushes?
I am having some of the same problems as you as well. So far I have found that getting 3 collosi is good for an all in, or I tech to templar with 2 collosi. However, I am only diamond so if you are higher league then maybe it won't work for you?
Does anyone have build orders for current PVT standard builds getting collosi or tips of when to tech to templar depending on if you are getting blink or not, and 1 or 2 ups?
thanks
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In PvP, is 2 probes in each geyser common for proxy Oracle, or does it usually have to be 3? If so, about how much does having 2 probes delay the first Oracle?
Or more generally, what should I be focusing my attention on while my probe is scouting at around 4:00-ish?
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Russian Federation16 Posts
On May 14 2014 12:11 FreeZEternal wrote:
It looks like colossus builds get countered hardcore. I'm trying early colossus blink stalkers but the terran pushes before I get enough stalkers to deal with vikings effectively. Is it just better to go 1 colo with no range while getting charge + storm against this type of pushes?
Does he push with scvs off 2 bases?
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Russian Federation16 Posts
On May 14 2014 12:30 Allred wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 12:11 FreeZEternal wrote:
It looks like colossus builds get countered hardcore. I'm trying early colossus blink stalkers but the terran pushes before I get enough stalkers to deal with vikings effectively. Is it just better to go 1 colo with no range while getting charge + storm against this type of pushes? I am having some of the same problems as you as well. So far I have found that getting 3 collosi is good for an all in, or I tech to templar with 2 collosi. However, I am only diamond so if you are higher league then maybe it won't work for you? Does anyone have build orders for current PVT standard builds getting collosi or tips of when to tech to templar depending on if you are getting blink or not, and 1 or 2 ups? thanks
I've seen progamers like Rain, herO or Dear to go for 5-6 colossi and very late storm (first templars become archons). There is at least one very strong timing with 5-6 colossi, archons and 3/3.
A lot of stalkers (favoring them over zealots) and very good forcefields can stop timings with vikings, but it may be really hard sometimes, I agree.
You can take a look on Rain's build, for example. He goes for it pretty much every PvT.
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are there any protoss replays from the latest patch anywhere ? (gm level)
i forgot every build with protoss in my inactivity and now i have to play 30 minute games vs golds to win because i dont know when to attack ^^
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Hi all,
What's the best way to counter this build as P? Zerg goes 14 pool and expands to his natural with gas. Goes for very quick roaches (finishing around 4:50) and makes about 7 of them and spends the rest of his money on speedlings. (King Sejong Station).
To me it seems FFE into 2 cannons and quick MsC then Stargate would hold pretty well.
Ideas?
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On May 15 2014 19:19 Drake wrote:
are there any protoss replays from the latest patch anywhere ? (gm level)
i forgot every build with protoss in my inactivity and now i have to play 30 minute games vs golds to win because i dont know when to attack ^^
You should watch some vods from Proleague. The games are pretty exciting and you will see a VERY wide selection of builds that you can copy.
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Italy12248 Posts
On May 16 2014 00:27 DinoMight wrote:
Hi all,
What's the best way to counter this build as P? Zerg goes 14 pool and expands to his natural with gas. Goes for very quick roaches (finishing around 4:50) and makes about 7 of them and spends the rest of his money on speedlings. (King Sejong Station).
To me it seems FFE into 2 cannons and quick MsC then Stargate would hold pretty well.
Ideas?
Spam cannons, keep your wall up, chrono sentries. If you can get out a msc and/or void ray the rush will be over, but realistically you will need cannons and sentries before that. Once you hold proceed to the 2base allin of your choice and you'll win.
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does anyone know of a good guide or advice for playing against mech to the point where it ends up with mass ravens vikings and thors and banshees? i think ht would be good but he was good at laying point defence drones down and seeker missiles all over my army, sniping the obervers and cloaking the banshees.
help?
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United States4883 Posts
On May 16 2014 12:28 Allred wrote:
does anyone know of a good guide or advice for playing against mech to the point where it ends up with mass ravens vikings and thors and banshees? i think ht would be good but he was good at laying point defence drones down and seeker missiles all over my army, sniping the obervers and cloaking the banshees.
help?
Check the OP.
Tbh, in late late late game, you generally want to end up on pure tempest/HT with a few cannon-fortified areas to fall back to. It's also really important to get observer speed and just rally 2-3 obs to your Mothership or one of your tempests.
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Guys, I keep getting harassed successfully by terrans going with the two medivacs harass. I usually open gate expand robo into colossus. It looks like I'm short in units when I get dropped in two places. When do you usually get twilight for blink assuming I'm getting thermal upgrade? Also what's the proper timing for forge with this build? Should I get more zealots than stalkers? Once the terran drops my stalkers can't fight the bio effectively.
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When you do 3gate pressure in pvp, how do you deal with oracle? It usually hits at the same time as you attack. Or is this just a BO loss?
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On May 18 2014 03:27 OPDream wrote:
When you do 3gate pressure in pvp, how do you deal with oracle? It usually hits at the same time as you attack. Or is this just a BO loss?
A slight BO loss but can be dealt with (kind of):
3gate pressure hits 5:15 earliest and if there is an oracle in ur base by 5:15 then your opponent has almost 0 units at home.
At max probably 1 stalker and 1 zealot and he will never get an MSC for overcharge. So it's usually a basetrade scenario, after killing the zealot and stalker, focus all pylons to make sure he cant get a voidray out. Game is over by then.
Also run probes when oracle hits so it'll kill least amount of probes.
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On May 18 2014 05:01 Xinzoe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2014 03:27 OPDream wrote:
When you do 3gate pressure in pvp, how do you deal with oracle? It usually hits at the same time as you attack. Or is this just a BO loss? A slight BO loss but can be dealt with (kind of): 3gate pressure hits 5:15 earliest and if there is an oracle in ur base by 5:15 then your opponent has almost 0 units at home. At max probably 1 stalker and 1 zealot and he will never get an MSC for overcharge. So it's usually a basetrade scenario, after killing the zealot and stalker, focus all pylons to make sure he cant get a voidray out. Game is over by then. Also run probes when oracle hits so it'll kill least amount of probes.
I am talking about standard 3 gate pressure which hits around 6min, not the 10gate one. I saw what duckdeok did in wcs EU was keep his msc at home to defend any oracle or dt shenanigans. But time warp is a very powerful spell to use offensively.
BTW if there is an oracle in ur base around 5:15, it's proxy for sure, and u can't stop him getting a VR out.
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United States4883 Posts
On May 18 2014 05:20 OPDream wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2014 05:01 Xinzoe wrote:On May 18 2014 03:27 OPDream wrote:
When you do 3gate pressure in pvp, how do you deal with oracle? It usually hits at the same time as you attack. Or is this just a BO loss? A slight BO loss but can be dealt with (kind of): 3gate pressure hits 5:15 earliest and if there is an oracle in ur base by 5:15 then your opponent has almost 0 units at home. At max probably 1 stalker and 1 zealot and he will never get an MSC for overcharge. So it's usually a basetrade scenario, after killing the zealot and stalker, focus all pylons to make sure he cant get a voidray out. Game is over by then. Also run probes when oracle hits so it'll kill least amount of probes. I am talking about standard 3 gate pressure which hits around 6min, not the 10gate one. I saw what duckdeok did in wcs EU was keep his msc at home to defend any oracle or dt shenanigans. But time warp is a very powerful spell to use offensively. BTW if there is an oracle in ur base around 5:15, it's proxy for sure, and u can't stop him getting a VR out.
If it's a proxy oracle with a normally timed MSC, the proxy oracle should be favored. In any case, whenever you're doing the 3-gate pressure build, you should be poking around with the first two to three stalkers to get an idea of what your opponent is doing. If your opponent doesn't really put up a fight to hold his ramp and has almost no units, you need to keep in mind either fast DTs or proxy oracle and react appropriately.
3-gate pressure is a very scouting-oriented build and requires you to use your aggression to really think about what your opponent is going. If you're not completely comfortable with all the possible combinations of early game PvP and very up-to-date on all the little tells and such, it's better to take a step back and rely on a more stable build like blink/robo or DT expand, imo.
On May 17 2014 23:03 FreeZEternal wrote:
Guys, I keep getting harassed successfully by terrans going with the two medivacs harass. I usually open gate expand robo into colossus. It looks like I'm short in units when I get dropped in two places. When do you usually get twilight for blink assuming I'm getting thermal upgrade? Also what's the proper timing for forge with this build? Should I get more zealots than stalkers? Once the terran drops my stalkers can't fight the bio effectively.
There are a lot of variations on opening colossus, but the most common ones get forge(s) around 7:00-7:30, twilight + colossus bay ~8:00, and additional gateways (gateways 4-6) at 9:00 (or two-base saturation). Your first colossus will pop out at 10:00 just as the pressure hits. After your additional gateways at 9:00, you'll also have enough time to warp in about two rounds of zealots before the pressure hits. Blink and colossus production are started concurrently and thermal lance should only be started after your second colossus is started.
For the two medivac timing, just keep all of your army together. You don't actually need to split up your army until he has 4 medivacs, which is generally around 11:00.
Here are some notes on PvT builds and their divergence points that I wrote a while back: + Show Spoiler +Divergence points:
1) gas income before expansion
-less gas = "greedy"
-more gas = more options
2) tech choice
-stargate, robo, or twilight
-In-base usually after first stalker
-Proxies generally on 2nd pylon or early 3rd pylon
3) forge/gateways vs. natural gases
-natural gases first = greedy
-forge vs. gateways is stylistic
4) templar vs. colossus
-stylistic choice
-templar more flexible while colossus is easier to execute
-templar/charge and colossus/blink usually paired
-Warp prism PvT a variant of templar play
5) 3rd base timing
-before additional gates = greedy, usually in response to fast 3CC
-normal timing (~10:30)
-Late 3rd = usually defending allin
-outlier: stim timings
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Thanks for the help. I just decided to switch back to the chargelot/HT opening because with the Colo the drops were driving me nuts. Ah...the amazing feeling you get when you storm bio...
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EPT
