EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 237
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On February 20 2014 10:37 mizU wrote: If I scout CC first, and I want to get aggressive, is it better to chrono out two stalkers and msc or a zeal/stalker msc? zealot/stalker/MSC hits earlier. Skipping the zealot just allows you to get down a slightly earlier nexus. I usually go all out WoL with that and go zealot/stalker/stalker/MSC before nexus. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On February 20 2014 12:22 SC2John wrote: zealot/stalker/MSC hits earlier. Skipping the zealot just allows you to get down a slightly earlier nexus. I usually go all out WoL with that and go zealot/stalker/stalker/MSC before nexus. Reactively scouting CC first and then going for it seems like it wouldn't work most of the time, unless you 9 scouted (you shouldn't 9 scout), but going zealot > stalker > msc > stalker is actually a really solid way to be aggressive against terrans these days: it's very strong against anything except 1 rax gasless expand or some kind of 1 base multi-rax build. You need to keep the second stalker at home unless you are sure there is no reaper however. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On February 20 2014 12:39 Whitewing wrote: Reactively scouting CC first and then going for it seems like it wouldn't work most of the time, unless you 9 scouted (you shouldn't 9 scout), but going zealot > stalker > msc > stalker is actually a really solid way to be aggressive against terrans these days: it's very strong against anything except 1 rax gasless expand or some kind of 1 base multi-rax build. You need to keep the second stalker at home unless you are sure there is no reaper however. 13 scout arrives right about when you start the cyber core, giving you ample time to respond appropriately. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On February 20 2014 12:22 SC2John wrote: zealot/stalker/MSC hits earlier. Skipping the zealot just allows you to get down a slightly earlier nexus. I usually go all out WoL with that and go zealot/stalker/stalker/MSC before nexus. thanks berry much | ||
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
I'm having trouble nailing down things like what to make/how many phx before expansion, when to put down the 2nd and 3rd stargate, when to start upgrades, when to get fleet beacon, when to get archons, etc etc lol I know the basic transition you gotta make but I'm having trouble figuring out when to do each part | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On February 20 2014 13:08 SC2John wrote: 13 scout arrives right about when you start the cyber core, giving you ample time to respond appropriately. Depends on the map I suppose, certainly can't reliably punish it on Frost or Alterzim with a 13 scout, but I suppose he was referring to 2 player maps. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On February 21 2014 06:03 Whitewing wrote: Depends on the map I suppose, certainly can't reliably punish it on Frost or Alterzim with a 13 scout, but I suppose he was referring to 2 player maps. You can scout it in time on some 4 player maps, if you're lucky. Usually I play greedier on the bigger maps anyway. | ||
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Extenz
Italy822 Posts
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kuruptt
Canada168 Posts
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On February 21 2014 17:23 kuruptt wrote: Do you guys have a good micro guide for protoss? How do you guys hotkey your armies and such? I heard that most pros use only 1 hotkey for there whole army is that true? How does that work haha. Protoss requires a lot of micro to for there army so how do you guys do it? everyone is going to give you a different answer if you can double click fast enough, you can just use 1 hotkey otherwise generally it should be army on one hotkey, templar on another, maybe msc | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On February 21 2014 17:23 kuruptt wrote: Do you guys have a good micro guide for protoss? How do you guys hotkey your armies and such? I heard that most pros use only 1 hotkey for there whole army is that true? How does that work haha. Protoss requires a lot of micro to for there army so how do you guys do it? One hotkey requires a lot of tabbing and manual spreading. I wouldn't recommend it, although I don't know if pros use it because they don't show their hotkeys in tournaments anymore. Usually you'd have your fighting units that don't require too much micro on one with separate keys for HT, blink stalker, phoenix, MSC and/or tempests depending on the matchup and your composition. So in lategame PvT, I'd do: 1. Warp Prism/scouting phoenix/phoenix group 2. Blink Stalkers 3. Army 4. High Templar | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
` for warp prism/harassment (left of 1 on murican keyboards) 1 for main army 2 for templar 3 for msc I control click blink stalkers instead of having them on a separate hotkey. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On February 21 2014 10:52 Extenz wrote: All I know is that I am getting a lot of easy wins right now because the build I have always done in PvT (super stable 1gate expo into robo into 2-3 more gates, depending on what Terran is doing) beats this type of stuff fairly easily. I've only lost one PvT this week as a result of this new trend. Usually I was sitting at around 50-60%.blink is dead, cant get it to work anymore everyone is doing what polt is doing just send a troop at around 8,30 and if they delay medivacs their bio is too big and you cant ever go to their base if they keep threateting a base race, gg But then again, I kinda predicted this would happen (trend away from blink/oracle) so I never started doing blink or oracle stuff in the first place. Basing your entire matchup off an all-in or a gamble is not a good way to learn or improve a matchup because once it gets figured out you're back at square one. It's much better to have a slower, more stable means of improvement. It was inevitable that this would happen. It (by it I mean people figuring out how to stop a Protoss all-in) has always happened, this time it just took a little while longer than normal. It's been that way since the start of Wings of Liberty. Also, everyone, if you are having trouble with PvZ, go watch Nony's IEM analysis next time it is on his stream (he is still doing analysis for a couple more sessions I think. The last session was archived. The first wasn't). It helped me so much. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On February 22 2014 01:58 Ben... wrote: All I know is that I am getting a lot of easy wins right now because the build I have always done in PvT (super stable 1gate expo into robo into 2-3 more gates, depending on what Terran is doing) beats this type of stuff fairly easily. I've only lost one PvT this week as a result of this new trend. Usually I was sitting at around 50-60%. But then again, I kinda predicted this would happen (trend away from blink/oracle) so I never started doing blink or oracle stuff in the first place. Basing your entire matchup off an all-in or a gamble is not a good way to learn or improve a matchup because once it gets figured out you're back at square one. It's much better to have a slower, more stable means of improvement. It was inevitable that this would happen. It (by it I mean people figuring out how to stop a Protoss all-in) has always happened, this time it just took a little while longer than normal. It's been that way since the start of Wings of Liberty. Also, everyone, if you are having trouble with PvZ, go watch Nony's IEM analysis next time it is on his stream (he is still doing analysis for a couple more sessions I think. The last session was archived. The first wasn't). It helped me so much. I still haven't worked my way through all of the Polt VODS from IEM. And, as I have never blink all-inned in PvT, I have no idea what the current Terran meta response is. Are they finally starting to figure out a workable response to the strategy? I just keep losing PvT because I keep reading builds wrong and reacting incorrectly rather than just playing safe and standard. What are Terrans currently doing in response to a committed Blink all-in? And thanks for the NoNy reminder, Ben. I tried to find the first broadcast but it was not archived. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On February 22 2014 01:58 Ben... wrote: All I know is that I am getting a lot of easy wins right now because the build I have always done in PvT (super stable 1gate expo into robo into 2-3 more gates, depending on what Terran is doing) beats this type of stuff fairly easily. I've only lost one PvT this week as a result of this new trend. Usually I was sitting at around 50-60%. But then again, I kinda predicted this would happen (trend away from blink/oracle) so I never started doing blink or oracle stuff in the first place. Basing your entire matchup off an all-in or a gamble is not a good way to learn or improve a matchup because once it gets figured out you're back at square one. It's much better to have a slower, more stable means of improvement. It was inevitable that this would happen. It (by it I mean people figuring out how to stop a Protoss all-in) has always happened, this time it just took a little while longer than normal. It's been that way since the start of Wings of Liberty. Also, everyone, if you are having trouble with PvZ, go watch Nony's IEM analysis next time it is on his stream (he is still doing analysis for a couple more sessions I think. The last session was archived. The first wasn't). It helped me so much. Blink and oracle openings, especially more transitional openings like 2-base blink and oracle -> templar, are hardly "allin" or a "gamble", but rather aggressive openings designed to punish Terran greed and/or narrow the options of the Terran. It's somewhat similar to Life's 10-pool opening ZvT in WoL; while it had the potential to deal game-ending damage, most of the time, it simply forced the Terran to build their CC on the high ground. Polt's response to blink is pure gold, but it's still quite exploitable. We'll probably continue to see blink be relevant in the metagame. Sidenote, not directed at specificially at you: Being adaptable is the most important aspect of being a top gamer. For learning, I always say "learn the standard" and play very defensively, but once you start getting into masters, it's very important to start branching out and trying different things. The "I only play the difficult, standard way, and my way is best" is a toxic mindset that's gotten the best of many SC2 progamers. As a non-pro, it can wear you down and cause a lot of frustration; just focus on what's fun and improving via focused practice  .On February 22 2014 04:50 aZealot wrote: I still haven't worked my way through all of the Polt VODS from IEM. And, as I have never blink all-inned in PvT, I have no idea what the current Terran meta response is. Are they finally starting to figure out a workable response to the strategy? I just keep losing PvT because I keep reading builds wrong and reacting incorrectly rather than just playing safe and standard. What are Terrans currently doing in response to a committed Blink all-in? And thanks for the NoNy reminder, Ben. I tried to find the first broadcast but it was not archived. Usual response is cut early medivacs, get an extra tech lab (for concussive shells), maybe make a widow mine or two, and build 2+ bunkers depending on the map. Polt has been doing that except instead of building lots of bunkers and playing defensively, he sneaks a group of ~8 marines/2 marauders around to the Protoss base and defends with reinforcements. The idea here is that he can just base race (or draw) if the Protoss commits to the all-in, or he can split up the blink stalkers. 6-8 blink stalkers attacking your base is not anywhere close to scary compared to 12+. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
When the real one flies in, will the turret/crawler target it because of higher priority, or continue to target the hallucination? If the second option is true, once the hallucination it was shooting at dies, does it always target the real one afterward? | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
All units in the game automatically ignore hallucinations after they've detected them until there are no real units around to attack instead. Once there is a real unit in range of the turret, the turret will ignore an infinite amount of hallucinations until the real one is dead. | ||
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skorched
United States81 Posts
On February 21 2014 17:23 kuruptt wrote: Do you guys have a good micro guide for protoss? How do you guys hotkey your armies and such? I heard that most pros use only 1 hotkey for there whole army is that true? How does that work haha. Protoss requires a lot of micro to for there army so how do you guys do it? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377148 Great guide by RemarK, also gives great tips like binding Q to control group 0. | ||
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