EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 78
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v0rtex
123 Posts
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Cybren
United States206 Posts
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On July 03 2013 03:15 v0rtex wrote: Hey I have another question. I am a low master zerg and I normally play roach/ling/bane styles since HotS however I really want to try ling/bane/muta but because of aggressive tactics like hellbat drops, WM drops etc... I am a bit unaware of what timings to get gases and when to take 4th etc... I want to try a heavy lair tech midgame with a timing (not sure what timing would work perhaps 2/2/1? or 1/1/0 - referring also to muta upgrades) and when to tech to Hive and get ultras as sometimes I begin teching then terran hits a push and I am not prepared and lose... Any tips would be great. Thanks! You can't really hit a timing. In WoL you could hit that 2/2 ling bane timing with about 10-14 mutas, but that's impossible now. The transition of reaper (or no reaper) --> hellion --> hellbat drops --> 3CC/double ebay either forces roaches/queens, or static defense/queens. On account of this, economy is delayed, as are upgrades. You are rarely ahead on upgrades as Zerg. Plus, assuming you choose to play a macro game, Terran has that window where they have 3 CCs of econ and 7+ barracks of bio/mine coming at you non stop. This forces Zerg to be quite reactionary in ZvT, mostly trying to posture and engage correctly, rather than attacking into a defensive Terran. I don't think there are any set timings... it's all dependent on what the Terran does. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On July 03 2013 03:15 v0rtex wrote: Hey I have another question. I am a low master zerg and I normally play roach/ling/bane styles since HotS however I really want to try ling/bane/muta but because of aggressive tactics like hellbat drops, WM drops etc... I am a bit unaware of what timings to get gases and when to take 4th etc... I want to try a heavy lair tech midgame with a timing (not sure what timing would work perhaps 2/2/1? or 1/1/0 - referring also to muta upgrades) and when to tech to Hive and get ultras as sometimes I begin teching then terran hits a push and I am not prepared and lose... Any tips would be great. Thanks! With ling/bane/muta you still want to get a roach warren (encase of the hellbat/bio timing, it can be very difficult to hold a marauder/hellbat timing with just ling/bane. You can hold it with pure ling/bane but it's a lot harder then with roach/ling/bane). Or any other sort of hellbat play. But for muta play you want to get double upgrades before lair still, start lair at about 8 - 8:30, stay 2 gas until all 3 bases are saturated then get the rest of your gases. Make mainly ling (make banes if he pushes, roaches as well if you think you need them) while you wait for the spire to finish. You should be double gasing at 6 minutes vs CC first/1 rax expand. On July 03 2013 09:27 Cybren wrote: So I don't understand ZvP at all. I feel like when I lose ZvP it's only if my opponent fucked up. Other matchups I might be bad at but at least I know what's going on. In ZvP I lose a lot and can't figure out why other than "I'm bad at Starcraft" (which is true). Specifically I have no idea how to play against Skytoss or air in general Well if you are playing zvp and getting to late game and losing I have a feeling you do roach/hydra play? You don't really say how you play so I can only guess. Don't do roach/hydra/corruptor, it's a BAD composition. Especially if you are facing void/colossi. You will never kill a void/colossi/templar army with roach/hydra/corruptor. (again I can only guess what you are having issues with). If you are going to do roach/hydra do the hyun fast hive for roach/hydra/viper and then transitioning into ultra/hydra/infestor/ling late game. You can also do swarmhost play, the fun way or the boring way whichever you prefer. The fun way is being more active and going ultra/hydra/swarmhost/viper (this is super strong versus sky toss, if he's going pure skytoss + templar then just go sh/hydra/viper/infestor). The boring way is to just make a ton of spines, a ton of spores and go turtle swarmhost and abduct air units with vipers into the spores and have corruptors/queen/infestor. you can also do muta/corruptor into swarmhost or muta into ultralisks. I mean there are so many ways to play zvp it's really all up to how you want to play it. The one style I would never recommend though is roach/hydra/corruptor, imo if you want to go roach/hydra do a fast hive and get vipers. | ||
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Cybren
United States206 Posts
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A_Scarecrow
Australia721 Posts
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Spec
Taiwan931 Posts
In ZvP, going Hydra SH, and the opponent is going mass colos to counter. What is the proper timing for hive if you want to get Ultralisks in time to stop critical numbers of colos? | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On July 04 2013 05:11 Spec wrote: Likely a question for Blade: In ZvP, going Hydra SH, and the opponent is going mass colos to counter. What is the proper timing for hive if you want to get Ultralisks in time to stop critical numbers of colos? You don't want to get ultras to counter colossi, you want vipers or corruptors. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On July 04 2013 05:11 Spec wrote: Likely a question for Blade: In ZvP, going Hydra SH, and the opponent is going mass colos to counter. What is the proper timing for hive if you want to get Ultralisks in time to stop critical numbers of colos? If they are going super collisi heavy you should add corruptors. By super I am talking 7. Also you should start hive no later then 1230. | ||
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ghostCatalyst
Philippines39 Posts
On July 03 2013 12:59 A_Scarecrow wrote: ran into the polt maurauder, hellbat marine timing on ladder from masters terran. i held it off didnt lose many drone but he did kill my upgrades. after that he just kept dropping and pushing forward and i couldnt hold it. i was doing roach ling bling. ussually works but his timing hits just befor i can get the macro going. any ideas on how to defend this easier? i did spine spore per base but just couldnt trade efficient against him. on a side note when is it a good time to scout protoss atm. been running into numerious 2 base all ins all different but effective and hard to stop. just need few tips on that normal macro verse toss im fine, its the all ins atm. On the Polt composition: I do think that spines + roach/ling/bling is the most correct way to hold it. If you hold it off without many losses, as long as you stay defensive and stay on your side of the map, the drops shouldn't do that much. I believe it would depend on if the Terran is on 2 bases or 3 bases. Keeping your upgrades alive is ideal, but if he's still on 2 base after a very long time, it becomes less important. On Protoss scouting: Depending on if they 1 Gate FE or FFE, I think the earliest a mass warpgate all-in can come is about 7:45-8:15. If they 1 Gate FE, the +1 attack might be a little bit later. Usually the main way that most pros defend against warpgate all-ins is with queens (usually 2 or 3), static defense and a lot of roach-ling. Depending on the timing or type of all-in, it might be possible to get a Hydralisk Den up, but that's usually if it's an Immortal/Sentry or Voidray + Mass warpgates. | ||
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Spec
Taiwan931 Posts
I've tried pure roaches, it just dies slowly since I can't ever get close to the immortals. I've tried roach bane queen, but I also got smashed. The banes go through the first round of zealots but then I couldn't keep up with the reinforcements. Now I am working on making additional queens for the engagement, I think if I begin reacting to the build at 7 minutes, I can have 7 Queens in the engagement, and about 10 banes. I think one of the key is to get additional gases, and begin Queen production... Protoss usually hit with HSC, 1 Prism, 2 immortals, and 10 zealots at 9:00 If anyone can provide some replays that'd be great. Thanks. | ||
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A_Scarecrow
Australia721 Posts
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
But is 15 pool really any better? When doing something like 15p 16h, the i find myself just starting a 15/16 lord as the pool finishes, and then have to wait for 150 minerals to build the queen. As I recall, this all seemed more seamless with the 14p 15h. Any input? | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On July 04 2013 12:28 Spec wrote: Is anyone willing to dig up replays of 3 base Zerg holding vs the man train? That's immortal prism 7 gate +1 zealot, 1 gas. Hit around 9 minutes. My standard build don't get early zergling speed, and lings don't really do well versus +1 zealots anyways, so I do not have speed. I've tried pure roaches, it just dies slowly since I can't ever get close to the immortals. I've tried roach bane queen, but I also got smashed. The banes go through the first round of zealots but then I couldn't keep up with the reinforcements. Now I am working on making additional queens for the engagement, I think if I begin reacting to the build at 7 minutes, I can have 7 Queens in the engagement, and about 10 banes. I think one of the key is to get additional gases, and begin Queen production... Protoss usually hit with HSC, 1 Prism, 2 immortals, and 10 zealots at 9:00 If anyone can provide some replays that'd be great. Thanks. Scout their main base - check for gases. If he only has one he's doing the mantrain. Then get bane nest, spread some creep, roll over his army with 15 banelings and cleanup with lings. Make sure banelings don't hit the immortals. | ||
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SweKenZo
Sweden82 Posts
On July 04 2013 20:49 gronnelg wrote: 14 pool seems to have fallen out of style in favor of 15 pool. But is 15 pool really any better? When doing something like 15p 16h, the i find myself just starting a 15/16 lord as the pool finishes, and then have to wait for 150 minerals to build the queen. As I recall, this all seemed more seamless with the 14p 15h. Any input? This shouldnt be happening. if you follow the BO: 15p, 16h, 15OL, then you should have exactly 150 mins when the pool is done. maybe wait for 2-3 secs depending on map and spawning positions.. (hatch north or south of mineral line) Hope you get to refine your opening  gl! | ||
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A_Scarecrow
Australia721 Posts
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On July 05 2013 09:24 A_Scarecrow wrote: really struggling against toss atm. im 80% winrate verse terran and zerg but protoss i always get hit by 2 base all ins and my winrate is now 44%. is there a standard build that i can do that is safe verse this or am i just playing wrong? i do 2 hatch 1gas for speed into 3rd. scout and go roach ling and then hydra but they hit befor hydra. That's because you apparently aren't scouting at all. You can't just go 'into hydra' if they're all inning. Scout for their natural gas timings and scout their main base. scout gas at 6:30. No gas? Most likely gate way pressure/all in. Deny proxy pylons and build stuff. 2 gas? Possible tech build such as immortal sentry all in. Scout main base to find out. 1 gas? Can be anything. Scout main base around 7:00. Counts amount of gates - 6-7 gates? Attack incoming. 3 gates and a robo? Expand, most likely. Empty base? either double stargate or DT. Build spores. | ||
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On July 05 2013 17:45 schmutttt wrote: Diamond player here, when Protoss opens 1 gate FE I really have no idea what is a good opener against it. Can you take 3 bases or should you go 2 base roach into a 3rd? Please help If he opens gateway, take gas and get speed. (So get a gas asap you scout it, ~17 supply or so) Take your 3rd base when you see him take his natural. Then play as usual. | ||
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CommanderS
Germany53 Posts
In this replay I wanted to produce queens constantly while holding the reapers back with zerglings but I couldn't get a comfortable number of queens out since he already had 5 reapers when my first 2 popped, so he was able to kill them pretty easily. He won that game with 0 units lost. http://drop.sc/347579 | ||
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