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Hi Ver
During IPL5 Korean regionals and the main IPL5 event Polt played some of his TvZ with a fast 2 base marine, heavy marauder hellion aggression that hits around the 9 min mark, give or take half a min with +1 attack, CS, and stim. It hits during the time when zerg is getting his tech, but before he is able to get any of the tech units out such as mutas or infestors. He then transitions into normal marine, tank, and medivac, taking his third later than usual around the 11 to 12 min mark
Depending on whether or not the Zerg takes gas or not, he would take a extremely fast third if the zerg does not take gas otherwise he would continue on with his regular 2 base aggression
It is safe against zerg all ins, yet you can also punish zergs that go for fast 3 base economy.
I was wondering if this sort of strategy is viable in the longterm, or is hellion banshee 3cc the only way to go in TvZ. Is Polt's playstyle only viable due to Korean Zergs most of the times avoid sacing ovies into the Terran base?
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Day9 made a daily yesterday about that style.
Here's the link-> + Show Spoiler +
He said its a good way to fight the zergs in the time when they want to drone hard and get their stuff as soon as possible and polt exploits that time to disturb their tech. you might want to check it out ~
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Hello,
I just finished reading Ver's comprehensive guide on improving. Kudos to a very well thought out guide.
My question regards TvT openers, there are a couple that are talked about in this thread (and also reflected on the front page of the Terran help me thread)
1) a 1/1/1 base play, usually a banshee expo or hellion elevator
2) rax cc/14 cc into 3 rax tech into medivacs
3) Thorzain's greedy variant of 2)
4) rax cc 1/1/1
For a macro-oriented player that is focused on improving his mechanics, which opening do you guys suggest?
Cheers.
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Hi in TvT when it gets to super late game and i have a maxed out air army, how do i control my bcs,viking, and ravens?
Do i focus more on seeker missiles or using the yamato cannon? Also how many ravens and bcs should i get or does it depend on the situation.Thank you.
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Russian Federation101 Posts
-NerdCrusher December 06 2012 14:30. Posts 12
Hi in TvT when it gets to super late game and i have a maxed out air army, how do i control my bcs,viking, and ravens?
Do i focus more on seeker missiles or using the yamato cannon? Also how many ravens and bcs should i get or does it depend on the situation.Thank you.
high master here
I usually have 3 hotkeys and in late game they re helpful. on 1 u get your whole air army and priority unit is raven so u don t rly need seperate hot key for ravens. Another hot key is for bc so u can instantly use it after hsm and pdd ofc if needed and another one is for ghosts(ofc if u have them in composition). u should go in thi order emp/hsm and then pay attention to bc.
high number are pretty much useless so u build only 4-8. u need them o tank dmg and poke with yamato canon. u need 16-18 vikings t one shot BC s and as much as possible ravens since they re energy units and hsm is powerful enough to take out any unit.
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I would do differently....
Priorities:
1) BC's in front yamato enemy ravens (your vikings back)
2) Ravens throw PDD and missiles on enemy vikings + your vikings arrives fucking things up
You should lose more BC than viking, and clean enemy army... so u just reinforce with some bc's to clear ground, and few viking to keep air superiority.
But again, it's situational.. if he have thor I yamato them, and I also don't build too many raven.
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--moved from terran ask me thread--
What's the game plan goal behind a Flash-style 1 rax FE -> 3rax (2 reactor, 1 tech) against P?
The opening hits the P base at 10:20-10:25 with a large number of marines, 1-2 rauders, 2 medivacs, +1, and combat shields, and Flash will often take his 3rd before adding additional rax. The part I don't understand is what you're trying to do in the long term with this build, because here's what I'm finding:
Arrive at 10:00 with my units, break down any rocks (if applicable), wait until CS finishes & medivacs arrive, and poke in, with results falling into a couple categories:
a) Protoss has done some kind of 3 gate robo opening with 1-2 forges, low unit count, but 1st collosus is out at ~9:30, so by the time I press @ 10:30 ish there is only about 10-15 seconds before the second collosus comes out, and they will also often have a 1 upgrade advantage - so no damage is really done, maybe I trade a few marines for a sentry. At this point I just try to delay their 3rd as long as possible while saturating mine.
b) Protoss has done a fast forge -> templar opening. Storm finishes around 10:30, completely deflects my attack because it's marine heavy. Again, I try to deny their 3rd to prevent them from taking a 5th/6th gas and ramping up templar production as long as possible, will throw down a ghost academy asap.
c) Protoss did something ridiculous like 2 forge, fast templar, robo bay, 4 expos, and just dies to 1a and the game ends.
Now, my problem is that in scenarios a) and b), even though I usually get my 3rd up 4-5 minutes before the P, one of two things happens: either they take their third and turtle up forever till 3/3 and mass collo/templar, in which case I almost always lose, or they take their 3rd and counter with the units off 2 bases and kill me because they have either an upgrade advantage, a tech advantage, or both.
So my +1 finishes @10:20 with this build, +1 armor finishes @ 13:00, and then earliest it's possible to have 2/2 is just after 16 mins. But for the P, they can often have 2/2 by 14 mins or even earlier if they went something like 1 gate double forge into robo and I don't kill them - they might even be on 3/3 before I'm on 2/2. So I don't have a really clean 200/200 2/2 push that can hit them before they get templar+storm up (if they open robo) or collosus (if they open templar). Once the game goes into 3-4 base mode I almost never win, and I rarely see professional T players win this way either - they usually win before that. So what gives?
For reference, I was masters KR T last season, and am getting back into playing again.
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Russian Federation101 Posts
Fission December 07 2012 00:39. Posts 696
--moved from terran ask me thread--
What's the game plan goal behind a Flash-style 1 rax FE -> 3rax (2 reactor, 1 tech) against P?
The opening hits the P base at 10:20-10:25 with a large number of marines, 1-2 rauders, 2 medivacs, +1, and combat shields, and Flash will often take his 3rd before adding additional rax. The part I don't understand is what you're trying to do in the long term with this build, because here's what I'm finding:
Arrive at 10:00 with my units, break down any rocks (if applicable), wait until CS finishes & medivacs arrive, and poke in, with results falling into a couple categories:
a) Protoss has done some kind of 3 gate robo opening with 1-2 forges, low unit count, but 1st collosus is out at ~9:30, so by the time I press @ 10:30 ish there is only about 10-15 seconds before the second collosus comes out, and they will also often have a 1 upgrade advantage - so no damage is really done, maybe I trade a few marines for a sentry. At this point I just try to delay their 3rd as long as possible while saturating mine.
b) Protoss has done a fast forge -> templar opening. Storm finishes around 10:30, completely deflects my attack because it's marine heavy. Again, I try to deny their 3rd to prevent them from taking a 5th/6th gas and ramping up templar production as long as possible, will throw down a ghost academy asap.
c) Protoss did something ridiculous like 2 forge, fast templar, robo bay, 4 expos, and just dies to 1a and the game ends.
Now, my problem is that in scenarios a) and b), even though I usually get my 3rd up 4-5 minutes before the P, one of two things happens: either they take their third and turtle up forever till 3/3 and mass collo/templar, in which case I almost always lose, or they take their 3rd and counter with the units off 2 bases and kill me because they have either an upgrade advantage, a tech advantage, or both.
So my +1 finishes @10:20 with this build, +1 armor finishes @ 13:00, and then earliest it's possible to have 2/2 is just after 16 mins. But for the P, they can often have 2/2 by 14 mins or even earlier if they went something like 1 gate double forge into robo and I don't kill them - they might even be on 3/3 before I'm on 2/2. So I don't have a really clean 200/200 2/2 push that can hit them before they get templar+storm up (if they open robo) or collosus (if they open templar). Once the game goes into 3-4 base mode I almost never win, and I rarely see professional T players win this way either - they usually win before that. So what gives?
For reference, I was masters KR T last season, and am getting back into playing again.
a) case: In case gets colosus u have an advantage of dropping him at multiple location at the same time since only 1 colos he can t defend all drops and run bys which leaves him creepled for he later stage where u decide wherether to expand or finish game with popular timing when protoss switch his tech.
b) case: plz check 1st page how to punish greedy protoss since everything explained there properly with examples.
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On December 07 2012 00:39 Fission wrote:
--moved from terran ask me thread--
What's the game plan goal behind a Flash-style 1 rax FE -> 3rax (2 reactor, 1 tech) against P?
The opening hits the P base at 10:20-10:25 with a large number of marines, 1-2 rauders, 2 medivacs, +1, and combat shields, and Flash will often take his 3rd before adding additional rax. The part I don't understand is what you're trying to do in the long term with this build, because here's what I'm finding:
Arrive at 10:00 with my units, break down any rocks (if applicable), wait until CS finishes & medivacs arrive, and poke in, with results falling into a couple categories:
a) Protoss has done some kind of 3 gate robo opening with 1-2 forges, low unit count, but 1st collosus is out at ~9:30, so by the time I press @ 10:30 ish there is only about 10-15 seconds before the second collosus comes out, and they will also often have a 1 upgrade advantage - so no damage is really done, maybe I trade a few marines for a sentry. At this point I just try to delay their 3rd as long as possible while saturating mine.
b) Protoss has done a fast forge -> templar opening. Storm finishes around 10:30, completely deflects my attack because it's marine heavy. Again, I try to deny their 3rd to prevent them from taking a 5th/6th gas and ramping up templar production as long as possible, will throw down a ghost academy asap.
c) Protoss did something ridiculous like 2 forge, fast templar, robo bay, 4 expos, and just dies to 1a and the game ends.
Now, my problem is that in scenarios a) and b), even though I usually get my 3rd up 4-5 minutes before the P, one of two things happens: either they take their third and turtle up forever till 3/3 and mass collo/templar, in which case I almost always lose, or they take their 3rd and counter with the units off 2 bases and kill me because they have either an upgrade advantage, a tech advantage, or both.
So my +1 finishes @10:20 with this build, +1 armor finishes @ 13:00, and then earliest it's possible to have 2/2 is just after 16 mins. But for the P, they can often have 2/2 by 14 mins or even earlier if they went something like 1 gate double forge into robo and I don't kill them - they might even be on 3/3 before I'm on 2/2. So I don't have a really clean 200/200 2/2 push that can hit them before they get templar+storm up (if they open robo) or collosus (if they open templar). Once the game goes into 3-4 base mode I almost never win, and I rarely see professional T players win this way either - they usually win before that. So what gives?
For reference, I was masters KR T last season, and am getting back into playing again.
Putting aside drops, which you can opt to do/should do - the timing most korean terrans go for atm is a quick max with many vikings before storm. Poke around and get a general idea of when he's getting templars and how many collos he's making. Make many vikings and rax (delay ghost academy, and dont get a second starport(settle for 4 medivacs)). Some players opt to forgo getting 2-2 (Bogus vs Squirtle on cloud kingdom in IPL 5 example). And then hit hard possibly pulling scvs and crush their non-templar army. In this case you probably don't want to drop too much 'cause you're just building army for this timing.
If you got your third earlier, you should also be able to outplay your opponent even if he does hit templar/colossus simply because of your tech advantage. When he takes a 3rd take a 4th and play for the lategame, when terran is ahead you can outplay the protoss in the lategame, sacrificing scvs and getting a massive army value lead.
Either way, if your 3rd is 4-5 minutes earlier you have many options and you're in a great spot. Just don't get into the mindset that says oh no hes got templars and collos and panic.
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On December 07 2012 00:39 Fission wrote:
--moved from terran ask me thread--
What's the game plan goal behind a Flash-style 1 rax FE -> 3rax (2 reactor, 1 tech) against P?
The opening hits the P base at 10:20-10:25 with a large number of marines, 1-2 rauders, 2 medivacs, +1, and combat shields, and Flash will often take his 3rd before adding additional rax. The part I don't understand is what you're trying to do in the long term with this build, because here's what I'm finding:
Arrive at 10:00 with my units, break down any rocks (if applicable), wait until CS finishes & medivacs arrive, and poke in, with results falling into a couple categories:
a) Protoss has done some kind of 3 gate robo opening with 1-2 forges, low unit count, but 1st collosus is out at ~9:30, so by the time I press @ 10:30 ish there is only about 10-15 seconds before the second collosus comes out, and they will also often have a 1 upgrade advantage - so no damage is really done, maybe I trade a few marines for a sentry. At this point I just try to delay their 3rd as long as possible while saturating mine.
b) Protoss has done a fast forge -> templar opening. Storm finishes around 10:30, completely deflects my attack because it's marine heavy. Again, I try to deny their 3rd to prevent them from taking a 5th/6th gas and ramping up templar production as long as possible, will throw down a ghost academy asap.
c) Protoss did something ridiculous like 2 forge, fast templar, robo bay, 4 expos, and just dies to 1a and the game ends.
Now, my problem is that in scenarios a) and b), even though I usually get my 3rd up 4-5 minutes before the P, one of two things happens: either they take their third and turtle up forever till 3/3 and mass collo/templar, in which case I almost always lose, or they take their 3rd and counter with the units off 2 bases and kill me because they have either an upgrade advantage, a tech advantage, or both.
So my +1 finishes @10:20 with this build, +1 armor finishes @ 13:00, and then earliest it's possible to have 2/2 is just after 16 mins. But for the P, they can often have 2/2 by 14 mins or even earlier if they went something like 1 gate double forge into robo and I don't kill them - they might even be on 3/3 before I'm on 2/2. So I don't have a really clean 200/200 2/2 push that can hit them before they get templar+storm up (if they open robo) or collosus (if they open templar). Once the game goes into 3-4 base mode I almost never win, and I rarely see professional T players win this way either - they usually win before that. So what gives?
For reference, I was masters KR T last season, and am getting back into playing again.
when flash did this build he applied a shitton of pressure with his bio once stim finishes. It's possible to actually kill Protoss's in this time if they are doing a colossus build and haven't got their colossus out yet and for some reason they don't notice you out on the map or are just being super duper greedy bastards.
If you're not going to be as aggressive with these unist or think it's just a silly idea then don't get add ons before factory.
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On December 06 2012 12:12 HotStuffs wrote:
Hello,
I just finished reading Ver's comprehensive guide on improving. Kudos to a very well thought out guide.
My question regards TvT openers, there are a couple that are talked about in this thread (and also reflected on the front page of the Terran help me thread)
1) a 1/1/1 base play, usually a banshee expo or hellion elevator
2) rax cc/14 cc into 3 rax tech into medivacs
3) Thorzain's greedy variant of 2)
4) rax cc 1/1/1
For a macro-oriented player that is focused on improving his mechanics, which opening do you guys suggest?
Cheers.
Any of them really. None of those are the best standard macro build, they all do something and expand or expand and then do something, you'll always be on 2 base at some point. It's more about how you play out all the situations, some of which will just murder the shit out of you and make you extremely mad.
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As I posted in the help me thread -- I'm looking for very standard build orders to go up with TvT, TvZ, and TvP. I've been out of the game for over 5 months, and while I'm hugely rusty I have forgotten what build orders go where, and my games are a total mess. I want to practice the builds and learn what to stress... and I need the timings/BOs to do it!
Any links/ideas would be helpful. Day9 is good but he goes too far in depth in his analysis, and has too many builds to analyse for my benefit. I'm not a pro, I just want a solid foundation to build upon and if I watch Day9 my mind can't be made up, and my builds look like a combination of everything he says :p
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I'd like to gather opinions on 3 different midgame bio styles in tvp as i want to further my understanding on different styles in this matchup, and how they should be played:
1) the difference in effectiveness between going 3 rax medivac into third and 5 rax medivac into third against various protoss styles
2) bomber's build, which delays factory tech slightly to allow the player to either add a quick third or 2 additional raxes around 830 without compromising production
3) getting armory and 2nd ebay before 3rd cc
These days, I find going 5 rax before 3rd to be less effective if protoss does a defensive 2 base tech-heavy style, and i find that the earlier third gives you the added advantage of a strong 3 max base timing to break toss before he hits max. I don't really see how going 5 rax instead of 3 will allow you to delay his third much longer, as he will be eventually able to defend drops while having a more cost effective army to engage yours, which forces you to back off and just take your third (which won't be much earlier than his, reducing the effectiveness of a follow-up timing perhaps before storm). Yet, I still see most pros going for 2 additional raxes before the 3rd cc.
Am I missing something here, or perhaps i'm playing wrongly?
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On November 25 2012 18:07 teamamerica wrote:
When are some good times to temporarily cut scvs to get production buildings/gas/more units out faster? Such as I sometimes briefly cut scvs to have double gas before 2nd dept after 1rax expo in TvZ (get blocked briefly because I delay depot)? I'm trying to learn some more aggressive builds.
Around 10' when you 1 rax expand in TvP, to get your third and/or Barracks #4 and #5 faster (if you don't use Bomber's variation which has its own timings).
On November 25 2012 18:07 teamamerica wrote:
Also, is the counter to a 1rax expo in TvT when you've already 1rax expod to go triple CC before gas?
I would not call this a “counter,” but it's a common answer, yes.
On November 25 2012 18:07 teamamerica wrote:
If I'm going gas first and I've scouted my opponent going 1rax expo, is it worth going for 1base allin automatically?
No, you will freelose to dual gas 1-1-1 follow-ups while not having an auto-win against bio follow-ups.
On November 25 2012 18:07 teamamerica wrote:
If I'm going 1rax expo -> 3rax combat shield, and I see my opponent going 1base marine tank allin, is it worth trying to engage outside my base? I.e. on Daybreak is it worth trying to meet the opponents army at the watch tower?
You need to try to delay his push by forcing Siege repeatedly, you don't want to engage with your Marines alone as he should have enough to crush you.
On November 25 2012 18:07 teamamerica wrote:
Is it worth engineering bay blocking a protoss who ISN'T skipping his zealot, and hasn't taken his second gas?
Depends on your scouting SCV timing. If you scout after Barracks you don't have much time if you first head towards his main then go back to the natural (assuming 0 Chronoboost on Gateway and 13 scout, Zealot is out at ~3'40). Besides, to be safe, you need to pull another SCV and try to sneak it on the map to make sure he expanded if you lost the SCV who built the EB.
On November 25 2012 18:07 teamamerica wrote:
Is it worth engineering bay blocking a protoss who HAS taken 2nd gas and is mining 3per geyser.
You won't have the time if you scout whether he has 3 Pylons or not in his base (important to rule out early proxies).
On November 25 2012 18:07 teamamerica wrote:
Is it ever worth it going 10scout and engineering bay block TvZ on a 2 player map?
No.
On November 25 2012 18:07 teamamerica wrote:
Are there any decent ghost timing attacks (i.e. before factory get ghost) timings in TvP?
No, since EMP is 1.5 radius a Stim timing with 2 Ghosts is too weak.
On November 25 2012 18:07 teamamerica wrote:
What's the best way to play on maps like Entombed & Antiga in TvP? If I go 1rax expo on lowground and I scout them last and they're close position, if they went 12gate chronod zlot/stalker it does a lot of damage if I don't go bunker immediately after command center (i.e. depot, cc, bunker, depot, rest of build).
That's quite a lot of “if”. You never need to Bunker before second Depot, a Zealot alone can't do anything against 2 or 3 Marines because you just walk away with the one being chased by the Zealot while the other(s) fire. Worst case scenario you just retreat and pull some SCVs to deal with this.
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On November 25 2012 18:42 ThaSlayer wrote:
However, I am very weak at midgame decision making.
1) If Toss opens templar tech rather than colos, I tend to get a faster armoury for double upgrades, faster 3rd whilst getting a ghost academy, all around 10-12min. However, my ghost count always seems to be less than idea (around 2-4?) and I have no idea what to do afterwards.
You need more Ghosts as you will likely lose some to the Zealot swarm, aim at least at 8. Keep scouting so you don't get surprised by the likely double Robotics Colossus tech switch. Personnally, if I am in a decent spot, I get Cloak and try to attack at +2 attack if it matches his armor upgrade; if you manage to kill Observers nearby your cloaked Ghosts can EMP/Snipe all his Templars, one of the rare situations in which you can keep your Marines in a tight formation and blissfully 1a your way to victory. That's an ideal situation, of course (one Cannon can prevent your cloaked Ghosts from reaching all Templars).
As HTs usually come along with many Charge Zealots, don't get more than 10-15 Marauders unless you first decide to spend all your gas on Medivacs, quickly reaching 10-12 of them so you can keep dropping/fighting despite Storms and repetitive Stims.
On November 25 2012 18:42 ThaSlayer wrote:
2) Poor medivac pressure - What is the correct approach for this? It never seems like a wise idea to stim into the natural and try to take out sentries - I can never trade effectively. Should I wait for 4 medivacs and try a two-pronged attack instead?
When you move out with your first 2 Medivacs, it's more of a poke than a real timing. As you probably experienced, painfuls things do happen if you try to force your way through a ramp, so unless Protoss went some kind of horrible build not allowing him to defend this simple pressure, just soft contain him while waiting reinforcements / more information about what he's up to. When Medivacs #3 and 4 arrive you have more possibilities; you can try a quadruple drop when Protoss moves out his army near his warping third while moving the rest of your army to cancel the warping Nexus, etc. But there are games in which nothing special happens and you just get away with a faster third (preferably built directly in its location).
On November 25 2012 18:42 ThaSlayer wrote:
3) Knowing when to move out and attack - Till to this day, T v P seems like a rather bizzare matchup for me. I have no idea when to actually attack, indications of weaknesses in protoss play.
Do I wait for my upgrades? Do I do a timing attack? I cant make informed decisions in this matchup at all.
Weaknesses in Protoss play: generally when he's tech switching (particularly from Colossi to HTs, see KawaiiRice's answer above on SCV pulls) or when he's getting a key upgrade (Charge, Storm, Thermal Lance when switching from HTs to Colossi). To attack, you have to make sure you have appropriate counters in appropriate numbers (not enough Vikings against 3+ Colossi or no Ghosts against multiple Storms = huge no-no), and it's much better if your attack upgrade matches his armor upgrade; actually I feel it's almost mandatory against Zealots with Charge. Of course there may be situations in which you can win fights despite an upgrade disadvantage, e. g. you have a high Medivac count against Zealots/Archons/HTs, or you murdered his Colossi so he lacks AoE damage, or you have several Ghosts ready for his Storm-less 3-0-3 timing, or you just outnumber him so badly it doesn't matter, etc., but generally you don't trade well when your opponent has the upgrade advantage (his armor vs your attack) over you.
I suggest you watch Bomber vs Crank (both games) @ Lone Star Clash II and his TvPs @ IPL5, there are good examples of nice multi-pronged (Bomber vs Creator on EV) and timing attacks, some of them with SCVs.
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On November 29 2012 04:33 saaaa wrote:
Assuming i go cc first and scout no gas - in fact a queen build with a 3rd base between 3:30 and 6:30. What should be my reaction depending on my scouting?
Should i delay my starport for a few secs and get my third cc right after my factory or should i try to go for a hellion+cloak banshee timing and maybe destroy his 3rd? Whats the better choice for a mech player?
Unless your scouting SCV saw an early third morphing you can't decide anything upon scouting Zerg opened gasless because he can take dual gas and go agressive afterwards. Even triple Hatchery before Pool doesn't necessarily mean passive macro play. By the time you confirm a 6 Queens build with your first Hellions, you already chose your follow-up, so… Your choice in the end.
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On December 06 2012 03:00 NoZyneighbor wrote:
During IPL5 Korean regionals and the main IPL5 event Polt played some of his TvZ with a fast 2 base marine, heavy marauder hellion aggression that hits around the 9 min mark, give or take half a min with +1 attack, CS, and stim. It hits during the time when zerg is getting his tech, but before he is able to get any of the tech units out such as mutas or infestors. He then transitions into normal marine, tank, and medivac, taking his third later than usual around the 11 to 12 min mark
Depending on whether or not the Zerg takes gas or not, he would take a extremely fast third if the zerg does not take gas otherwise he would continue on with his regular 2 base aggression
It is safe against zerg all ins, yet you can also punish zergs that go for fast 3 base economy.
Unfortunately this kind of timing “punishes” only bad scouting and/or risky play. 6 Queens builds can hold any 2-bases timing and thus remain at a significant advantage (which should translate to a win unless Zerg feels sorry for you and gives you 10 Infestors or something) if Zerg sacrifices an Overlord and react appropriately. I could go so far as to say that with the current state of TvZ, those builds are basically disguised all-ins. I am exaggerating a bit there but you see the point, those builds really have to do tons of damage to justify your delayed third and upgrades; even if you wipe out the entire third you're not in a particularly commanding position.
I once ran into a Zerg who prepared a surround with Zerglings/Banelings (out of 55 Drones on 3 bases) to defend my Marine/Marauder/Hellion timing and I can tell you things were not pretty to watch.
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Didn't Flash do an engineering bay block against Zenio in PL? He also said it wasn't based around any special preparation, so what is your opinion on what he did?
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Sup,
during a TvT Code S match between Polt and Bbyong one of the casters said, that mech in TvT is the future. I'm only plat, so I do not have sufficient knowledge to agree or disagree with that statement. Would anybody care to elaborate on that? I also wouldn't mind to learn a mech build. It would be peachy it someone had a link to a vod/thread! gg
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On December 14 2012 17:53 tino wrote:
Sup,
during a TvT Code S match between Polt and Bbyong one of the casters said, that mech in TvT is the future. I'm only plat, so I do not have sufficient knowledge to agree or disagree with that statement. Would anybody care to elaborate on that? I also wouldn't mind to learn a mech build. It would be peachy it someone had a link to a vod/thread! gg
Must've been Artosis...
The reasoning behind mech > bio is the mech army composition which is unbeatable in straight up fights. People say mech is the future because mech has zero room for errors and thus you have to play it perfectly which no one has yet accomplished hundred percent.
The benefit of bio is that it allows more errors since no one is nowhere perfect in this game yet. It allows mobility and rewards great multitasking, opposed to mech which is mostly sitting and waiting to max out.
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On December 14 2012 18:53 herMan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 17:53 tino wrote:
Sup,
during a TvT Code S match between Polt and Bbyong one of the casters said, that mech in TvT is the future. I'm only plat, so I do not have sufficient knowledge to agree or disagree with that statement. Would anybody care to elaborate on that? I also wouldn't mind to learn a mech build. It would be peachy it someone had a link to a vod/thread! gg Must've been Artosis... The reasoning behind mech > bio is the mech army composition which is unbeatable in straight up fights. People say mech is the future because mech has zero room for errors and thus you have to play it perfectly which no one has yet accomplished hundred percent. The benefit of bio is that it allows more errors since no one is nowhere perfect in this game yet. It allows mobility and rewards great multitasking, opposed to mech which is mostly sitting and waiting to max out.
I think what people say (especially Artosis on non-P play) should be taken with a pinch of salt. Hellion / banshee harass rewards multi-tasking very nicely. Serious errors with bio (e.g. mis-judging tank count, not paying quite enough attention) are just as deadly. Sure, you may not die for another 5 or 10 minutes - but that doesn't mean you haven't lost if something goes far enough awry.
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On December 13 2012 02:41 kollin wrote:
Didn't Flash do an engineering bay block against Zenio in PL? He also said it wasn't based around any special preparation, so what is your opinion on what he did?
No idea, I did not see the game. Maybe he improvised, maybe he wanted to throw his opponent out of his autopilot. Thirds on this map seems to be far away, so at least Zerg would have troubles connecting bases with creep and defending if he takes his third right away instead of his natural.
Thing is, you're delaying yourself for approximatively 20 seconds—not the Barracks but the expand if you 1 rax FE. Seeing how Zergs can deal no particular damage with 10 pool (other than forcing an early second Depot and CC inbase which is hardly a big deal economy-wise) yet still have an even game, I don't see why they couldn't do that (or better actually) with a 15 pool. Not to mention the possibilties to come across a scouting Drone (thus giving away your intention since early Terran scouts are very rare) or your opponent opening 10 pool and laughing at you.
On December 14 2012 17:53 tino wrote:
Sup,
during a TvT Code S match between Polt and Bbyong one of the casters said, that mech in TvT is the future.
Don't listen to casters.
For mech resources, check this thread.
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i saw Liquid.Sea do reactor helion marine banshee allin once he had 2banshees with nonstop helion production in tvp, it was game agains Genius, is it viable or genius just f-ed up?
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EPT
