EPT[!] Pro Terran Strategy Q/A - Page 18
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Abstinence
United States328 Posts
1. Uses 1 drone to deny or 2. Pulls an extra drone or 3. Goes 14 pool instead of 15 hatch? | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
Both games of the BO3 he went for CC first into a marine hellion medivac timing with a quick 3rd behind it, into standard play (and on the 2nd game, eventually transitioned into sky with ghost and some tank support @ Antiga) is that build solid for normal use (as an alternative to the hellion banshee style)? I took notes on the build order (with some timings, some of it supply, depending on what I can see on the production tab/timer when I watched gsl) + Show Spoiler + 14cc 15rax 17rax oc x2 21gas 22gas take natural with cc poke tower with 3 marines factory, reactor@rax 5-6 minutes: bunker 34 techlab@rax research stim, swap fact->reactor make a reactor on the rax again marine, hellion, stim production 52 3rd CC -- 6 hellions 61 starport (~8 min) x2 gas after 6 hellions, lift factory for techlab starport -> fact's old reactor double ebay x2 medivacs +1/+1 drop marines with hellion support into main while taking 3rd -- need good control to not get baneling'd combat shields, seige mode, seige tank (1 viking) x3 rax armory x2 reactor 11:30 ish: turrets x2 gas, +2/+2, +1 mech 13 minutes ish: 2nd factory and then usual standard marine tank play also is there a way to adapt this timing for a 1rax fe opening? | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On November 21 2012 05:19 zhurai wrote: Hi. I have a question about taeja's games vs dark on gsl Both games of the BO3 he went for CC first into a marine hellion medivac timing with a quick 3rd behind it, into standard play (and on the 2nd game, eventually transitioned into sky with ghost and some tank support @ Antiga) is that build solid for normal use (as an alternative to the hellion banshee style)? I took notes on the build order (with some timings, some of it supply, depending on what I can see on the production tab/timer when I watched gsl) + Show Spoiler + 14cc 15rax 17rax oc x2 21gas 22gas take natural with cc poke tower with 3 marines factory, reactor@rax 5-6 minutes: bunker 34 techlab@rax research stim, swap fact->reactor make a reactor on the rax again marine, hellion, stim production 52 3rd CC -- 6 hellions 61 starport (~8 min) x2 gas after 6 hellions, lift factory for techlab starport -> fact's old reactor double ebay x2 medivacs +1/+1 drop marines with hellion support into main while taking 3rd -- need good control to not get baneling'd combat shields, seige mode, seige tank (1 viking) x3 rax armory x2 reactor 11:30 ish: turrets x2 gas, +2/+2, +1 mech 13 minutes ish: 2nd factory and then usual standard marine tank play also is there a way to adapt this timing for a 1rax fe opening? Dunno about that build specifically but in general marine hellion 2 medivac builds are super vulnerable to a counter speedling/bane timing before you have siege up. They can just spam lings/banes and aggro while droning and taking a 4th and it's really hard to hold. That's if you do no damage though which isn't always the case ~.`;; Even if you hold that you're still behind in econ and they should have decently timed hive coming regardless. | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
On November 19 2012 19:52 monkybone wrote: Hi, just want to say to the blue posters here, what an excellent job you are doing, it is really informative. I use standard build 1 rax FE build into double gas, reactored hellion with cloak banshee followed up with 3rd CC and then 2 engi bays before I put down 4 raxes with reactors. When I do my 2-2 maxed marine tank medievac timing around 15 minutes after hellion banshee pressure, sometimes I haven't been able to keep the creep away properly. So when I'm half-way there I sometimes have to traverse through creep to do any kind of damage with the push. What should I do in this situation? Should I poster on the edge of the creep and gradually push it back while I continue to macro, and harras? Should I spread my units and charge into creep onto a position where I can siege his 4th? I really don't know, and I've had some uncomfortable encounters with infestors in the middle of the map just slaughtering my army. Also, should I do any sort of harrassment with marine drops before the push? Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, any tips here? I usually send my medievac in a path where I have cleared overlords with a viking. One more question regarding hellion banshee. I'm a bit uncertain as to what my goal is with these units. I send my initial banshee to harass and to the damage it can. Then, when he has spores and queens in position they can do nothing more. From here, what should this army do? Should I try to suicide hellions into drone lines, continually poke? And how important is it to keep this army alive? Thanks! A 15 minute 2-2 timing feels too slow. Zerg gets broodlords at 1530-1545 if they are really good, so you need to killing bases before that point. Even if you start at the middle watchtower on entombed and run to his 4th he'll have broods out by the time his 4th is barely done. How you execute the timing push really depends on figuring out what he is doing. If the Zerg is going muta/ling/bling, his broods are delayed til 17-18 mins at minimum so you can take your time avoid excessive risks. Ryung vs DRG on Whirlwind is a good example of this play. If he is going infestors, you have to suicide units (hellion or rine) to determine his army location, then scan if need be, to see what he's going. If you see 6-8 infestors and 0/low bane count, he's hive rushing. If you see him hive rushing, then you need to blitz forward and a) force banelings/kill infestors and b) kill at least 1 if not 2 bases to remain in the game. In this case with proper pre splitting you can just bulldoze through creep ( though make sure to scan all the way) with pre stimmed units setting up a screen in front and the trigger finger on stim/siege. If you don't feel hes going to counter then rally everything to support the attack; you win or lose with this push. If you see lots of gas units (12+ infestors, more than a dozen ish banes), then he's not hive rushing as fast and you have another minute or two of leeway. This means you can clear the first few waves of creep more freely, siege outside, and advance abit more slowly. Your goal is to lure him into battle with at least part of your army off creep, but if you have to fight on creep, so be it. Just make sure you are well-pre split and target fire gas units with tanks. Either way your goal is to make him bleed gas, which forces him to reproduce gas units to stay alive, which means later broods. Unless he continually leapfrogs a frontal spore, which is kind of annoying to do, you should be able to delay his initial creep a long way by flying your banshee (after you make sure he spores all his other bases) in front of his creep line and picking off any tumors. Against even a really good player you should be able to prevent him from getting creep beyond the middle of the map on entombed or antiga by delaying his spread with the threat of hellion runbys early and cloak banshee later until overseer. That is considered 'playable.' Three goals with hellion/banshee: 1) With first 4 hellions, threaten a runby into the nat/main. This forces him to either be making premature lings (pull back asap if you see them, as you can't know his speed timing) or keep his queens walling the nat ramp until he can get a full wall in. That means no tumors for this period. So you are slowing creep via threat of runby. Of course if he has all his queens on the edge of the creep, zoom right in and roast 20+ drones. Take some shots in the nat, force him to run, then go into the main and run in circles. You can rally your next 2 into the nat/third as well. On certain maps like Ohana you can threaten runbys into the third when you have 6 to keep him cautious 2) With first banshee go right for the mineral line and kill as many dronse as you can. Once his spore is up you can try to get potshots, just prioritize keeping it alive. Once spores are up at all bases, and its useful to check as some zergs get lazy, then circle in front of his creep cloaked (ala taeja vs revival on entombed) to limit his spread. 3) Make sure to keep hellions alive (unless you can get 20+ drones for them) in order to safeguard your third. Ideally you want to be making your third at the third base like flash does, unless you triple cc before gas. Also make sure he never gets watchtower with banshees after he masses speedlings to chase the hellions away. I think in general its worth it to lead with a single drop when you push; dual drop can work too but you run the risk of your middle army being overrun. It's ok that he sees it because it makes it awkward for him to focus on both fronts at once, though obviously you want to pray he can't spread overlords. When do you drop focus more on the push than the drop; your pre spread is critical. On November 21 2012 05:09 Abstinence wrote: Hey, a quick question - what's the best response when my 11/11 gets scouted and he 1. Uses 1 drone to deny or 2. Pulls an extra drone or 3. Goes 14 pool instead of 15 hatch? Not 100% sure these are the best responses; just don't want to ignore this. 1. Pull another scv, or two if need be, from your main. First priority is to finish the first rax. Pull the 2nd scv off if needed; you must have that orbital on 13. Second priority is not to lose any scvs. If he scouts it fast enough you have to cancel the 2nd rax and use that scv to defend the first one. 2. I suppose this would only happen if you proxy close to him or he does some insanely dumb 11 scout. Pull 2 more scvs from your main and make sure you dont lose any scvs. Once your first marine pops out he has to run and you should take every chance to continue building when hes chasing your initial 2 scvs around. 3.14 pool (no gas) is an auto loss versus 11/11 generally. You need to be active with an scv to confirm if he took gas and if he's making lings or drones, but your priority is just to mass rines and make sure you wall your ramp. If he makes drones, you pull 8-10 scvs at 5 rines and go kill his natural. He can't hold. If he makes lings, you need to wait longer but his econ will be shot so badly eventually you will just have enough marines to kill him with scv pull or you can just defend and double expand. On November 21 2012 05:19 zhurai wrote: Hi. I have a question about taeja's games vs dark on gsl Both games of the BO3 he went for CC first into a marine hellion medivac timing with a quick 3rd behind it, into standard play (and on the 2nd game, eventually transitioned into sky with ghost and some tank support @ Antiga) is that build solid for normal use (as an alternative to the hellion banshee style)? I took notes on the build order (with some timings, some of it supply, depending on what I can see on the production tab/timer when I watched gsl) + Show Spoiler + 14cc 15rax 17rax oc x2 21gas 22gas take natural with cc poke tower with 3 marines factory, reactor@rax 5-6 minutes: bunker 34 techlab@rax research stim, swap fact->reactor make a reactor on the rax again marine, hellion, stim production 52 3rd CC -- 6 hellions 61 starport (~8 min) x2 gas after 6 hellions, lift factory for techlab starport -> fact's old reactor double ebay x2 medivacs +1/+1 drop marines with hellion support into main while taking 3rd -- need good control to not get baneling'd combat shields, seige mode, seige tank (1 viking) x3 rax armory x2 reactor 11:30 ish: turrets x2 gas, +2/+2, +1 mech 13 minutes ish: 2nd factory and then usual standard marine tank play also is there a way to adapt this timing for a 1rax fe opening? Frankly I think that I could get a significant lead (which generally translates into an almost auto win ) vs any Terran in the world who did this, with my zerg that I've played maybe 40-50 ZvTs in my life with. What's worse is that you can lose in two distinct ways: the counter that KR mentioned, as you force them to retreat (and lose) or push onto creep (and lose). Or they flank you when you push on creep with 6 queen ling/bane. If Zerg reacts properly, your best hope is that you can lift up almost everything and only lose a third of your army while he gets full initiative. KR is spot on. Two relevant games, albeit somewhat dated, are Sheth vs Polt on Daybreak (MLG Columbus, pre-patch) and Mystik vs Illusion on Daybreak (WCS NA). Sheth does the counter, Mystik does the surround. Suppy vs Happy on Daybreak is a more relevant example. In the Abyssal city game of taeja/dark Dark goes 2 hatch muta eco so it mostly evened out. In the Antiga game Dark's build was dubious and he doesn't scout, so he has weak creep, only 2 queens at the front, and no units ready. Taeja gets slightly unlucky (something very very easy to happen to you doing this) and has to run. In short, Taeja had the second and third best case scenario happen both games and he ended up even or slightly behind. The only reason he has doing this is if the Zerg does a 2 base allin blindly. Then it works out very well. But Korean Zergs for some reason have severe early game issues; I don't understand why. Thus all these Korean Terrans keep using objectively abysmal openings but they still work out, even though they should lose or put them way behind. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On November 21 2012 05:36 KawaiiRice wrote: Dunno about that build specifically but in general marine hellion 2 medivac builds are super vulnerable to a counter speedling/bane timing before you have siege up. They can just spam lings/banes and aggro while droning and taking a 4th and it's really hard to hold. That's if you do no damage though which isn't always the case ~.`;; Even if you hold that you're still behind in econ and they should have decently timed hive coming regardless. I see. On November 21 2012 09:28 Ver wrote: Frankly I think that I could get a significant lead (which generally translates into an almost auto win ) vs any Terran in the world who did this, with my zerg that I've played maybe 40-50 ZvTs in my life with. What's worse is that you can lose in two distinct ways: the counter that KR mentioned, as you force them to retreat (and lose) or push onto creep (and lose). Or they flank you when you push on creep with 6 queen ling/bane. If Zerg reacts properly, your best hope is that you can lift up almost everything and only lose a third of your army while he gets full initiative. KR is spot on. Two relevant games, albeit somewhat dated, are Sheth vs Polt on Daybreak (MLG Columbus, pre-patch) and Mystik vs Illusion on Daybreak (WCS NA). Sheth does the counter, Mystik does the surround. Suppy vs Happy on Daybreak is a more relevant example. In the Abyssal city game of taeja/dark Dark goes 2 hatch muta eco so it mostly evened out. In the Antiga game Dark's build was dubious and he doesn't scout, so he has weak creep, only 2 queens at the front, and no units ready. Taeja gets slightly unlucky (something very very easy to happen to you doing this) and has to run. In short, Taeja had the second and third best case scenario happen both games and he ended up even or slightly behind. The only reason he has doing this is if the Zerg does a 2 base allin blindly. Then it works out very well. But Korean Zergs for some reason have severe early game issues; I don't understand why. Thus all these Korean Terrans keep using objectively abysmal openings but they still work out, even though they should lose or put them way behind. so I guess taeja did it as more of a metagame-ish build, but in general it just sucks for standard play ok thanks for answering (both you and Kawaiirice) | ||
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TRpredator
Russian Federation101 Posts
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On November 21 2012 22:35 TRpredator wrote: I have a question regarding TvZ. Well general idea is that i gain advantage against zerg because i defend some push without much of a loss or able to kill a good amount of drones though harass, which sets me up in good mid game or late game spot. when i try to push (with timings like before T3 units appear) i scout where his army is by droppiung or sending some hellions to get his attention away where as i set up at his 4th and try to kill it .He simply abandons his 4th base and attacks my 3rd forcing base trade. In this case i try to split my army by leaving little part to kill of 3rd and 4th base and another part to defend however when i return he simply leaves my 3rd and escapes. This put s me in bad spot bec my eco at 3rd is shattered which kinda equalize our eco since i killed his 4th and possibly 3rd if lucky. however during that forced base trade he gets his tech (T3) which later on is hard to counter since i need to get vikings or marads with almost 1 base eco(1st base almost mined and at 3rd scv line crushed. As result i can t do much to prevent this base trade situations even if i make wall offs and put bunkers how is it possible to prevent from happening? I'd say, fortifie your natural as good as possible, while he rips your 3rd and go for the full basetrade. Lift up a few buildings from your main and float them away to 1) the edge of the map, if he has no air-to-air, or 2) to your army, if he has (try to get around his army, so he doesn't notice). Maybe even both. An alternative would be to move a small to middleish force into his main to kick the T3 buildings and the rest back to "save" the 3rd. It depends a bit on what you're playing, bio or mech (couldn't find a clear statement about that). Mech is too slow to go back and safe your base, so you're better off with the basetrade. Bio could be possible. User was warned for this post | ||
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TRpredator
Russian Federation101 Posts
BurningRanger Germany. November 21 2012 23:04. Posts 121 PM Profile Quote # On November 21 2012 22:35 TRpredator wrote: I have a question regarding TvZ. Well general idea is that i gain advantage against zerg because i defend some push without much of a loss or able to kill a good amount of drones though harass, which sets me up in good mid game or late game spot. when i try to push (with timings like before T3 units appear) i scout where his army is by droppiung or sending some hellions to get his attention away where as i set up at his 4th and try to kill it .He simply abandons his 4th base and attacks my 3rd forcing base trade. In this case i try to split my army by leaving little part to kill of 3rd and 4th base and another part to defend however when i return he simply leaves my 3rd and escapes. This put s me in bad spot bec my eco at 3rd is shattered which kinda equalize our eco since i killed his 4th and possibly 3rd if lucky. however during that forced base trade he gets his tech (T3) which later on is hard to counter since i need to get vikings or marads with almost 1 base eco(1st base almost mined and at 3rd scv line crushed. As result i can t do much to prevent this base trade situations even if i make wall offs and put bunkers how is it possible to prevent from happening? I'd say, fortifie your natural as good as possible, while he rips your 3rd and go for the full basetrade. Lift up a few buildings from your main and float them away to 1) the edge of the map, if he has no air-to-air, or 2) to your army, if he has (try to get around his army, so he doesn't notice). Maybe even both. An alternative would be to move a small to middleish force into his main to kick the T3 buildings and the rest back to "save" the 3rd. It depends a bit on what you're playing, bio or mech (couldn't find a clear statement about that). Mech is too slow to go back and safe your base, so you're better off with the basetrade. Bio could be possible.Last edit: 2012-11-21 23:05:23 Well i don t like playing certain style so i have variation of mech and bio mech builds. In case of mech i get countered by roach base trades and if he gets into the main i m pretty much dead bec he can get burrowed movement upgrade and game is pretty much finished. however in case of marine tank it s a bit harder because i get base trades when he goes for mutas which breaks fortification with rather ez u could say(tanks on the edge is useless and if u don t have sufficient marines number fortification will be broken not saying how good banelings can blow up buildings) so i can very much lose the game bec i won t have any buildings left as he can get far away expos due to his mutalisk tech and even if i ll have bigger army i ll get killed by simple technical victory | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On November 22 2012 19:10 Pursuit_ wrote: Almost every high-level Korean TvP I've watched recently that wasn't some sort of 1/2 base heavy aggression / all-in from either side has ended with a massive bio / viking push with ~ half of their scv's pulled a short time after the Protoss takes their third. This seems to happen regardless of whether or not the Terran has an advantage coming into the mid-game. I haven't seen this against a High Templar first builds (since so many Protoss are going for double forge Collosi -> third builds, my instinct tells me this wouldn't be as strong vs Templar builds since the scv's wouldn't mess with storm the way they do collosi attacks). What's causing this metagame shift? Is it because Protoss is too hard to face in the late game and the Terran wants to try to finish it before Protoss gets on 3 base, or because Protoss is playing too greedy and Terrans found a way to punish it? If so what triggers them to know that the Protoss is playing greedy? While I haven't seen this push fail yet, it seems to win by only a hair's breadth, and especially when Terran has a clear economy advantage in the mid game it seems weird to see them going for this all-in. The scv pull is going for the timing where P's are cutting gas units (stalker/colo) to get HT. It's not necessarily protoss greed. The scv pull lets them get several more volleys of viking shots on the colossus before bio units start getting killed. Really depends on how well P micros with FF and focus firing vikings to decide the game. That timing is different against storm because storm is just super good against scvs but also because T can't really afford ghosts before 3base economy, so going 2base ghost scv pull they would have to get ghost academy really early and it would be really allin since they can't afford the 3rd cc. Then they would be praying ht's never get good storms off (but if ht's are spread this is obviously ridiculously stupid to pray for). +_+ | ||
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teamamerica
United States958 Posts
Also, is the counter to a 1rax expo in TvT when you've already 1rax expod to go triple CC before gas? If I'm going gas first and I've scouted my opponent going 1rax expo, is it worth going for 1base allin automatically? If I'm going 1rax expo -> 3rax combat shield, and I see my opponent going 1base marine tank allin, is it worth trying to engage outside my base? I.e. on Daybreak is it worth trying to meet the opponents army at the watch tower? Is it worth engineering bay blocking a protoss who ISN'T skipping his zealot, and hasn't taken his second gas? Is it worth engineering bay blocking a protoss who HAS taken 2nd gas and is mining 3per geyser. Is it ever worth it going 10scout and engineering bay block TvZ on a 2 player map? Are there any decent ghost timing attacks (i.e. before factory get ghost) timings in TvP? What's the best way to play on maps like Entombed & Antiga in TvP? If I go 1rax expo on lowground and I scout them last and they're close position, if they went 12gate chronod zlot/stalker it does a lot of damage if I don't go bunker immediately after command center (i.e. depot, cc, bunker, depot, rest of build). However if I do that and they've gone nexus first I'm a bit more behind then I'd like to be. Should I 1) deal with it and play normally 2) send two scouts 3) open gas on that map? 3) just triple cc after seeing it? Last time this situation happened (I had rushed bunker and scouted nexus first last) I went triple CC but because they went nexus first their gateway timing was that much quicker and I lost because I had 3 bunkers facing my natural ramp but they isolated them 1 by 1 by breaking my side rocks and coming in. Thanks a ton for doing this! | ||
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ThaSlayer
707 Posts
I always open 1 rax fe into 3 rax, or quick 3rd cc forgg style, and have no problem winning in the midgame if my opponent commits to colos -> a 13-14 min timing attack with 6 vikings usually kills them? However, I am very weak at midgame decision making. 1) If Toss opens templar tech rather than colos, I tend to get a faster armoury for double upgrades, faster 3rd whilst getting a ghost academy, all around 10-12min. However, my ghost count always seems to be less than idea (around 2-4?) and I have no idea what to do afterwards. 2) Poor medivac pressure - What is the correct approach for this? It never seems like a wise idea to stim into the natural and try to take out sentries - I can never trade effectively. Should I wait for 4 medivacs and try a two-pronged attack instead? 3) Knowing when to move out and attack - Till to this day, T v P seems like a rather bizzare matchup for me. I have no idea when to actually attack, indications of weaknesses in protoss play. Do I wait for my upgrades? Do I do a timing attack? I cant make informed decisions in this matchup at all. 4) Watching ForGG stream, he seems to be able to take out tosses in 13-14min attacks, way before both robo and templar tech trees attain a critical mass. How do I end my T v P matches in the midgame (through timing attacks), preferably when he is trying to get his second tech path to work (i.e from robo to hts)? I am terrible at juggling between viking and ghost numbers in the late game. 5) Not sure if anyone knows about ForGG's build where he gets a 3rd CC early and powers on 8 raxes, but how can I ulitise the strengths of this build effectively? Thank you! | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
Should i delay my starport for a few secs and get my third cc right after my factory or should i try to go for a hellion+cloak banshee timing and maybe destroy his 3rd? Whats the better choice for a mech player? | ||
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GaryOakSC2
Germany14 Posts
I love to see people that are trying to get the community to play better. So, I am Master Protoss on EU and recently I realized that PvT is my worst matchup. I figured out that I usually play too safe and thus am far behind against any fast 3rd CC or double upgrades. My play was: 1 Forge, fast 2 no-range Colossi -> Charge -> Storm at 1-2 my 2end Forge finishes. After third Base Colossi Range and 4th. I started dying to any form of greed like fas 3 CCs double Gas. I tryed to go for 2 Base all-ins but more often than no Terran defended it easily. So now I am at a loss. I tried Creator style but with the same information and the same units Terran just kill me around 10-11 minutes, dropping in the main and running up the natural. I checked various replays and my opponents seem to delay upgrades a little and simply pump from 5 Barracks, overwhelming me easily while getting a third CC. Creator's Terran opponents simply walk in circles in front of the ramp with less units at this time and if they would drop he would take significant damage. (Here it is somewhere around 1 Colossus just finished, 3-4 Sentries 3 Zealots and 3-5 Stalkers against like 25-30 Marines/Marauders and 2-4 Medivacs) Do you think Creator style is even possible at lower levels where players will just attack and see what happens? What other safe macro oriented style would be a good choice? Is there something fundamentally I might be missing in my defence? Usually Terran scans my natural to see my army. If there are no Stalkers there he will try to pick off units one by one, if he sees the Stalkers he will drop 2 Medivacs worth of units in my main. He can safely run up the ramp, if I cut off a portion of his army with Forcefields he can evacuate with Medivacs because I have my Stalkers in the main defending against drops.. | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
On November 29 2012 20:47 GaryOakSC2 wrote: Hey, awesome job! I love to see people that are trying to get the community to play better. So, I am Master Protoss on EU and recently I realized that PvT is my worst matchup. I figured out that I usually play too safe and thus am far behind against any fast 3rd CC or double upgrades. My play was: 1 Forge, fast 2 no-range Colossi -> Charge -> Storm at 1-2 my 2end Forge finishes. After third Base Colossi Range and 4th. I started dying to any form of greed like fas 3 CCs double Gas. I tryed to go for 2 Base all-ins but more often than no Terran defended it easily. So now I am at a loss. I tried Creator style but with the same information and the same units Terran just kill me around 10-11 minutes, dropping in the main and running up the natural. I checked various replays and my opponents seem to delay upgrades a little and simply pump from 5 Barracks, overwhelming me easily while getting a third CC. Creator's Terran opponents simply walk in circles in front of the ramp with less units at this time and if they would drop he would take significant damage. (Here it is somewhere around 1 Colossus just finished, 3-4 Sentries 3 Zealots and 3-5 Stalkers against like 25-30 Marines/Marauders and 2-4 Medivacs) Do you think Creator style is even possible at lower levels where players will just attack and see what happens? What other safe macro oriented style would be a good choice? Is there something fundamentally I might be missing in my defence? Usually Terran scans my natural to see my army. If there are no Stalkers there he will try to pick off units one by one, if he sees the Stalkers he will drop 2 Medivacs worth of units in my main. He can safely run up the ramp, if I cut off a portion of his army with Forcefields he can evacuate with Medivacs because I have my Stalkers in the main defending against drops.. If you read my guide on Creator style, it says to make cannons against mass barrack aggression. Creator style is fragile against the popular 10 minute medivac timing properly executed at high levels, but against everything else, it's still a very strong build. (Here it is somewhere around 1 Colossus just finished, 3-4 Sentries 3 Zealots and 3-5 Stalkers against like 25-30 Marines/Marauders and 2-4 Medivacs) If you have this kind of composition when using a creator style, you're doing something wrong. It's more like you have 3 sentries, 8 zealots, 6 stalkers before you get a single colossi. Edit: just realized this is the Pro Terran thread. Someone else feel free to answer. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On November 29 2012 20:47 GaryOakSC2 wrote: Hey, awesome job! I love to see people that are trying to get the community to play better. So, I am Master Protoss on EU and recently I realized that PvT is my worst matchup. I figured out that I usually play too safe and thus am far behind against any fast 3rd CC or double upgrades. My play was: 1 Forge, fast 2 no-range Colossi -> Charge -> Storm at 1-2 my 2end Forge finishes. After third Base Colossi Range and 4th. I started dying to any form of greed like fas 3 CCs double Gas. I tryed to go for 2 Base all-ins but more often than no Terran defended it easily. So now I am at a loss. I tried Creator style but with the same information and the same units Terran just kill me around 10-11 minutes, dropping in the main and running up the natural. I checked various replays and my opponents seem to delay upgrades a little and simply pump from 5 Barracks, overwhelming me easily while getting a third CC. Creator's Terran opponents simply walk in circles in front of the ramp with less units at this time and if they would drop he would take significant damage. (Here it is somewhere around 1 Colossus just finished, 3-4 Sentries 3 Zealots and 3-5 Stalkers against like 25-30 Marines/Marauders and 2-4 Medivacs) Do you think Creator style is even possible at lower levels where players will just attack and see what happens? What other safe macro oriented style would be a good choice? Is there something fundamentally I might be missing in my defence? Usually Terran scans my natural to see my army. If there are no Stalkers there he will try to pick off units one by one, if he sees the Stalkers he will drop 2 Medivacs worth of units in my main. He can safely run up the ramp, if I cut off a portion of his army with Forcefields he can evacuate with Medivacs because I have my Stalkers in the main defending against drops.. Why are you making two no range colossus? If you make one you should be able to defend attacks with good ff.and focus on marines. This should help you get charge faster. Stalkers should be defending in the main and you rely.on ff.and one Colo in Nat. Once you have charge and hts you can fb medivacs to stop.their pressure then make archons or save up energy for storm if they don't. Sorry for random periods im on my phone | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On November 29 2012 04:33 saaaa wrote: Assuming i go cc first and scout no gas - in fact a queen build with a 3rd base between 3:30 and 6:30. What should be my reaction depending on my scouting? Should i delay my starport for a few secs and get my third cc right after my factory or should i try to go for a hellion+cloak banshee timing and maybe destroy his 3rd? Whats the better choice for a mech player? anyone?  | ||
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herMan
Japan2053 Posts
High master terran here. If you mech, I would lean on trying to outgreed the zerg and getting that third, especially on big maps like Daybreak. The more gas geysers that you can get while meching the better it is since mech revolves around gas units. The hellions guarantee that you won't be threatened for a while since you have map control and if you are you can react in time. The great thing about hellion banshee while expanding behind is that you can harass the zerg easily with hellions while maintaining map control. Conversely, hellion banshee doesn't work so incredibly well against zerg since they've adapted quite a bit. Cloak is a worthwhile investment when going mech since if zerg does not get mutas out, they can't deal with them very well resulting in favorable trades. Someone with more knowledge than me can feel free to correct me. tl;dr: Get the third, the cloak banshees can wait a while. | ||
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