• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:09
CET 03:09
KST 11:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros9[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win52025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!10BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams10Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest4
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four DreamHack Open 2013 revealed
Tourneys
Kirktown Chat Brawl #9 $50 8:30PM EST 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review Ladder Map Matchup Stats BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
KPDH "Golden" as Squid Game…
Peanutsc
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1512 users

[G] Stephano-Style ZvP – The 12 Minute Max-Out - Page 9

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 19 Next All
TheSwamp
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1497 Posts
April 11 2012 18:16 GMT
#161
I would like to know more about queen energy management. When do I lay down a tumor and with which queen?
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
LazinCajun
Profile Joined July 2011
United States294 Posts
April 11 2012 18:20 GMT
#162
Yeah, that game was sick. I couldn't believe how much crap nestea had. I hope they release replays.
jax1
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden35 Posts
April 11 2012 18:21 GMT
#163
does this really work i mean if you up agains blink stalkers you gonna be floating gas because all the ling you gonna make (they rape just roaches). then you need to tech infestors and this build goes out the window am i wrong?
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
April 11 2012 18:22 GMT
#164
stephano maxed out at 11:04 today on his stream, he said it was his new record. was funny, the immortal sentry push came and he was maxed :D
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
zZzJinzZz
Profile Joined August 2011
United States13 Posts
April 11 2012 18:37 GMT
#165
Nice build
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
April 11 2012 18:53 GMT
#166
On April 12 2012 03:21 jax1 wrote:
does this really work i mean if you up agains blink stalkers you gonna be floating gas because all the ling you gonna make (they rape just roaches). then you need to tech infestors and this build goes out the window am i wrong?


a) its meant to counter 2 base allins... you mass roach/ling from 3 base and from minute 8:00 on basically.
b) how do "blinkstalkers rape roaches" please?^^ you have the bigger eco, roaches are cheaper - and at that time you will have speed out.
c) if you make infestors, you simply die oO how can you ever afford to have enough gas and time to tech to infeswtors on 3 base trying to hold a 2 base allin?
just roach ling man!

dont wanna offend you but: you play lower leagues i guess, right?
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
jax1
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden35 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 19:04:30
April 11 2012 19:02 GMT
#167

b) how do "blinkstalkers rape roaches" please?^^ you have the bigger eco, roaches are cheaper - and at that time you will have speed out.

i am diamond, well maybe it works if you get the roach count up, im just saying if you only make roaches against someone who makes mass blink stalkers idk you need lings then and then you have to change thing up with the gas. i am almost offended that you say one build can beat everything.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
April 12 2012 03:14 GMT
#168
On April 12 2012 03:16 TheSwamp wrote:
I would like to know more about queen energy management. When do I lay down a tumor and with which queen?

This is a matter of preference. I've seen players a 2nd queen before the 3rd hatchery so they can spread 1 tumor before moving down to the expansion.

Other times, I've seen an early production of 3 consecutive queens in the main (The third queen is used to spread tumors, first 2 for injects at main/natural) then building a 4th queen at the 3rd hatchery to inject there. I personally prefer a 4-queen, 3-hatch style to actively spread creep.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
-Jackal-
Profile Joined September 2011
38 Posts
April 12 2012 04:56 GMT
#169
On April 12 2012 03:22 KalWarkov wrote:
stephano maxed out at 11:04 today on his stream, he said it was his new record. was funny, the immortal sentry push came and he was maxed :D


11 min max out... the way stephano does it is protected against viable all-in strats as well... that seems broken to me.

What is worse is when Toss do find a minor build order victory... the Zergs response is to suicide the roaches up the ramp into the natural - killing everything Toss has in the process and effectively ending the game. If it doesn't kill the Toss out right thats ok though, as Zerg has already tech'd and remaxed on Broodlords at that stage :o
Streaming @: www.twitch.tv./tspau1
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
April 12 2012 07:18 GMT
#170
On April 12 2012 12:14 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 03:16 TheSwamp wrote:
I would like to know more about queen energy management. When do I lay down a tumor and with which queen?

This is a matter of preference. I've seen players a 2nd queen before the 3rd hatchery so they can spread 1 tumor before moving down to the expansion.

Other times, I've seen an early production of 3 consecutive queens in the main (The third queen is used to spread tumors, first 2 for injects at main/natural) then building a 4th queen at the 3rd hatchery to inject there. I personally prefer a 4-queen, 3-hatch style to actively spread creep.

What I've seen Stephano do is walk down with his first queen from his main as he starts his second queen in his main. He injects his nat with this first queen, starting a queen at the nat about that time. He then waits with this first queen at the nat, put down a tumor, and walks it over to the third. So you get constant injects, and a tumor at your nat.
kmh
Profile Joined November 2010
Finland351 Posts
April 12 2012 10:20 GMT
#171
On April 12 2012 03:22 KalWarkov wrote:
stephano maxed out at 11:04 today on his stream, he said it was his new record. was funny, the immortal sentry push came and he was maxed :D


A link to a 11:10 max: http://www.twitch.tv/mstephano/b/314651590?t=114m0s

Might take the time to write the build down.
jax1
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden35 Posts
April 12 2012 12:04 GMT
#172
players play so fucking stupid against him. the first thing they should do is going stargate then he have to change up alot.
jax1
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden35 Posts
April 12 2012 12:13 GMT
#173
lol the guy he played went double stargate with one fucking sentry and then carrier rushed. that like gold league. he would die to like every all in that exists.
Agathon
Profile Joined February 2011
France1505 Posts
April 12 2012 12:13 GMT
#174
On April 12 2012 21:04 jax1 wrote:
players play so fucking stupid against him. the first thing they should do is going stargate then he have to change up alot.


He uses to say that a player who makes pheonix vs him is already dead.
"C'est au pied du mur, qu'on voit le mieux...le mur".
The_Darkness
Profile Joined December 2011
United States910 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 15:09:43
April 12 2012 15:09 GMT
#175
Yesterday, Stephano also hit 192/200 at 12:00 after losing his third to cannons, which is freaking ridiculous. He even built 8-10 early lings and harassed the Protoss for a good portion of the early game, killing several probes.
To be is to be the value of a bound variable.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
April 12 2012 15:43 GMT
#176
On April 13 2012 00:09 The_Darkness wrote:
Yesterday, Stephano also hit 192/200 at 12:00 after losing his third to cannons, which is freaking ridiculous. He even built 8-10 early lings and harassed the Protoss for a good portion of the early game, killing several probes.

Did he do his 11overpool early ling harass? I've seen him open this way to great effect, but I can't decide whether it's a better opening than 15 pool. . .
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 15:52:07
April 12 2012 15:50 GMT
#177
On April 13 2012 00:43 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2012 00:09 The_Darkness wrote:
Yesterday, Stephano also hit 192/200 at 12:00 after losing his third to cannons, which is freaking ridiculous. He even built 8-10 early lings and harassed the Protoss for a good portion of the early game, killing several probes.

Did he do his 11overpool early ling harass? I've seen him open this way to great effect, but I can't decide whether it's a better opening than 15 pool. . .

I have more often seen him not doing damage and sitting there with 6-8 useless lings in the early game. Regarding his midgame is so good, I don't think thats a good risk to take.
(yeah he is getting mapcontrol, but during a time where protoss can't be aggresive and good toss have a probe out somewhere)
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
April 12 2012 15:51 GMT
#178
On April 13 2012 00:50 00Visor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2012 00:43 TangSC wrote:
On April 13 2012 00:09 The_Darkness wrote:
Yesterday, Stephano also hit 192/200 at 12:00 after losing his third to cannons, which is freaking ridiculous. He even built 8-10 early lings and harassed the Protoss for a good portion of the early game, killing several probes.

Did he do his 11overpool early ling harass? I've seen him open this way to great effect, but I can't decide whether it's a better opening than 15 pool. . .

I have more often seen him not doing damage and sitting there with 6-8 useless lings in the early game. Regarding his midgame is so good, I don't think thats a good risk to take.

Well what I'm wondering is whether it really impacts the mid-game that much, I've heard arguments that the 11 Overpool is just as economical as 14/15 pools.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 15:56:36
April 12 2012 15:54 GMT
#179
On April 13 2012 00:51 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2012 00:50 00Visor wrote:
On April 13 2012 00:43 TangSC wrote:
On April 13 2012 00:09 The_Darkness wrote:
Yesterday, Stephano also hit 192/200 at 12:00 after losing his third to cannons, which is freaking ridiculous. He even built 8-10 early lings and harassed the Protoss for a good portion of the early game, killing several probes.

Did he do his 11overpool early ling harass? I've seen him open this way to great effect, but I can't decide whether it's a better opening than 15 pool. . .

I have more often seen him not doing damage and sitting there with 6-8 useless lings in the early game. Regarding his midgame is so good, I don't think thats a good risk to take.

Well what I'm wondering is whether it really impacts the mid-game that much, I've heard arguments that the 11 Overpool is just as economical as 14/15 pools.

I think thats right. 11 Overpool is only a bit behind in eco. Problem is the amount of lings you make.
Its not a big eco risk, he still won most games, but I think its unnecessary.
Liquid`Snute
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Norway839 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 16:02:50
April 12 2012 15:59 GMT
#180
Heres another 11min example, this time maxed out at 11:01. i wonder who can bring it to 10:40 first (edit: if not like 10:25-30) xD
DL: http://drop.sc/158539

+ Show Spoiler [replay comments] +
major shortcuts:
- blind 3rd base
- skipped lingspeed
- skipped detection
- ignoring incoming 8min pressure (lucky cancel in this rep)

room for improvement?
- fewer drones and 4gas instead of 5, will it hit max sooner? more safe either way
- a bit late 5gas for the amount of drones.
- macrohatch could even be a 4th, maybe its not needed in the first place with lower drone count?
- get detection in for the build to remain legit and transitionable
- slight saturation balance obviously


It's really braindead but works wonders. Hopefully zergs will be able to optimize 3-4base 4gas mass roach a bit more so we can see some truly crisp timings, and hopefully will P find ways to at the very least survive in those cases where 8min-pressure is not applied.

Good luck everyone! looking forward to the development
Team Liquid
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 19 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
23:00
PiGosaur Cup #54
CranKy Ducklings151
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft416
Nathanias 88
RuFF_SC2 86
Livibee 42
PiLiPiLi 16
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 47
Icarus 3
Dota 2
monkeys_forever485
capcasts181
PGG 165
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor118
Other Games
summit1g10327
WinterStarcraft323
C9.Mang0315
JimRising 245
Skadoodle93
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1490
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 19
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta29
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21676
League of Legends
• Doublelift4621
• Stunt198
• Hupsaiya46
Upcoming Events
Epic.LAN
9h 51m
BSL Team A[vengers]
11h 51m
Dewalt vs ZeLoT
UltrA vs ZeLoT
LAN Event
11h 51m
BSL 21
16h 51m
BSL Team A[vengers]
1d 11h
Cross vs Sobenz
Sziky vs IcaruS
LAN Event
1d 12h
BSL 21
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
SC4ALL: Brood War
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.