• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:13
CET 09:13
KST 17:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT9Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book16Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0224LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker15
StarCraft 2
General
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game?
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Team League Season 10 PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea Ladder maps - how we can make blizz update them? TvZ is the most complete match up Brood War inspired Terran vs Zerg cinematic – feed Which units you wish saw more use in the game?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Diablo 2 thread Nintendo Switch Thread Corso Formazione Insegnanti Yoga What Game makes you happy and stress free?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Search For Meaning in Vi…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2005 users

[G] Stephano-Style ZvP – The 12 Minute Max-Out - Page 9

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 19 Next All
TheSwamp
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1497 Posts
April 11 2012 18:16 GMT
#161
I would like to know more about queen energy management. When do I lay down a tumor and with which queen?
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
LazinCajun
Profile Joined July 2011
United States294 Posts
April 11 2012 18:20 GMT
#162
Yeah, that game was sick. I couldn't believe how much crap nestea had. I hope they release replays.
jax1
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden35 Posts
April 11 2012 18:21 GMT
#163
does this really work i mean if you up agains blink stalkers you gonna be floating gas because all the ling you gonna make (they rape just roaches). then you need to tech infestors and this build goes out the window am i wrong?
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
April 11 2012 18:22 GMT
#164
stephano maxed out at 11:04 today on his stream, he said it was his new record. was funny, the immortal sentry push came and he was maxed :D
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
zZzJinzZz
Profile Joined August 2011
United States13 Posts
April 11 2012 18:37 GMT
#165
Nice build
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
April 11 2012 18:53 GMT
#166
On April 12 2012 03:21 jax1 wrote:
does this really work i mean if you up agains blink stalkers you gonna be floating gas because all the ling you gonna make (they rape just roaches). then you need to tech infestors and this build goes out the window am i wrong?


a) its meant to counter 2 base allins... you mass roach/ling from 3 base and from minute 8:00 on basically.
b) how do "blinkstalkers rape roaches" please?^^ you have the bigger eco, roaches are cheaper - and at that time you will have speed out.
c) if you make infestors, you simply die oO how can you ever afford to have enough gas and time to tech to infeswtors on 3 base trying to hold a 2 base allin?
just roach ling man!

dont wanna offend you but: you play lower leagues i guess, right?
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
jax1
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden35 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 19:04:30
April 11 2012 19:02 GMT
#167

b) how do "blinkstalkers rape roaches" please?^^ you have the bigger eco, roaches are cheaper - and at that time you will have speed out.

i am diamond, well maybe it works if you get the roach count up, im just saying if you only make roaches against someone who makes mass blink stalkers idk you need lings then and then you have to change thing up with the gas. i am almost offended that you say one build can beat everything.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
April 12 2012 03:14 GMT
#168
On April 12 2012 03:16 TheSwamp wrote:
I would like to know more about queen energy management. When do I lay down a tumor and with which queen?

This is a matter of preference. I've seen players a 2nd queen before the 3rd hatchery so they can spread 1 tumor before moving down to the expansion.

Other times, I've seen an early production of 3 consecutive queens in the main (The third queen is used to spread tumors, first 2 for injects at main/natural) then building a 4th queen at the 3rd hatchery to inject there. I personally prefer a 4-queen, 3-hatch style to actively spread creep.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
-Jackal-
Profile Joined September 2011
38 Posts
April 12 2012 04:56 GMT
#169
On April 12 2012 03:22 KalWarkov wrote:
stephano maxed out at 11:04 today on his stream, he said it was his new record. was funny, the immortal sentry push came and he was maxed :D


11 min max out... the way stephano does it is protected against viable all-in strats as well... that seems broken to me.

What is worse is when Toss do find a minor build order victory... the Zergs response is to suicide the roaches up the ramp into the natural - killing everything Toss has in the process and effectively ending the game. If it doesn't kill the Toss out right thats ok though, as Zerg has already tech'd and remaxed on Broodlords at that stage :o
Streaming @: www.twitch.tv./tspau1
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
April 12 2012 07:18 GMT
#170
On April 12 2012 12:14 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 03:16 TheSwamp wrote:
I would like to know more about queen energy management. When do I lay down a tumor and with which queen?

This is a matter of preference. I've seen players a 2nd queen before the 3rd hatchery so they can spread 1 tumor before moving down to the expansion.

Other times, I've seen an early production of 3 consecutive queens in the main (The third queen is used to spread tumors, first 2 for injects at main/natural) then building a 4th queen at the 3rd hatchery to inject there. I personally prefer a 4-queen, 3-hatch style to actively spread creep.

What I've seen Stephano do is walk down with his first queen from his main as he starts his second queen in his main. He injects his nat with this first queen, starting a queen at the nat about that time. He then waits with this first queen at the nat, put down a tumor, and walks it over to the third. So you get constant injects, and a tumor at your nat.
kmh
Profile Joined November 2010
Finland351 Posts
April 12 2012 10:20 GMT
#171
On April 12 2012 03:22 KalWarkov wrote:
stephano maxed out at 11:04 today on his stream, he said it was his new record. was funny, the immortal sentry push came and he was maxed :D


A link to a 11:10 max: http://www.twitch.tv/mstephano/b/314651590?t=114m0s

Might take the time to write the build down.
jax1
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden35 Posts
April 12 2012 12:04 GMT
#172
players play so fucking stupid against him. the first thing they should do is going stargate then he have to change up alot.
jax1
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden35 Posts
April 12 2012 12:13 GMT
#173
lol the guy he played went double stargate with one fucking sentry and then carrier rushed. that like gold league. he would die to like every all in that exists.
Agathon
Profile Joined February 2011
France1505 Posts
April 12 2012 12:13 GMT
#174
On April 12 2012 21:04 jax1 wrote:
players play so fucking stupid against him. the first thing they should do is going stargate then he have to change up alot.


He uses to say that a player who makes pheonix vs him is already dead.
"C'est au pied du mur, qu'on voit le mieux...le mur".
The_Darkness
Profile Joined December 2011
United States910 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 15:09:43
April 12 2012 15:09 GMT
#175
Yesterday, Stephano also hit 192/200 at 12:00 after losing his third to cannons, which is freaking ridiculous. He even built 8-10 early lings and harassed the Protoss for a good portion of the early game, killing several probes.
To be is to be the value of a bound variable.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
April 12 2012 15:43 GMT
#176
On April 13 2012 00:09 The_Darkness wrote:
Yesterday, Stephano also hit 192/200 at 12:00 after losing his third to cannons, which is freaking ridiculous. He even built 8-10 early lings and harassed the Protoss for a good portion of the early game, killing several probes.

Did he do his 11overpool early ling harass? I've seen him open this way to great effect, but I can't decide whether it's a better opening than 15 pool. . .
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 15:52:07
April 12 2012 15:50 GMT
#177
On April 13 2012 00:43 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2012 00:09 The_Darkness wrote:
Yesterday, Stephano also hit 192/200 at 12:00 after losing his third to cannons, which is freaking ridiculous. He even built 8-10 early lings and harassed the Protoss for a good portion of the early game, killing several probes.

Did he do his 11overpool early ling harass? I've seen him open this way to great effect, but I can't decide whether it's a better opening than 15 pool. . .

I have more often seen him not doing damage and sitting there with 6-8 useless lings in the early game. Regarding his midgame is so good, I don't think thats a good risk to take.
(yeah he is getting mapcontrol, but during a time where protoss can't be aggresive and good toss have a probe out somewhere)
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
April 12 2012 15:51 GMT
#178
On April 13 2012 00:50 00Visor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2012 00:43 TangSC wrote:
On April 13 2012 00:09 The_Darkness wrote:
Yesterday, Stephano also hit 192/200 at 12:00 after losing his third to cannons, which is freaking ridiculous. He even built 8-10 early lings and harassed the Protoss for a good portion of the early game, killing several probes.

Did he do his 11overpool early ling harass? I've seen him open this way to great effect, but I can't decide whether it's a better opening than 15 pool. . .

I have more often seen him not doing damage and sitting there with 6-8 useless lings in the early game. Regarding his midgame is so good, I don't think thats a good risk to take.

Well what I'm wondering is whether it really impacts the mid-game that much, I've heard arguments that the 11 Overpool is just as economical as 14/15 pools.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 15:56:36
April 12 2012 15:54 GMT
#179
On April 13 2012 00:51 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2012 00:50 00Visor wrote:
On April 13 2012 00:43 TangSC wrote:
On April 13 2012 00:09 The_Darkness wrote:
Yesterday, Stephano also hit 192/200 at 12:00 after losing his third to cannons, which is freaking ridiculous. He even built 8-10 early lings and harassed the Protoss for a good portion of the early game, killing several probes.

Did he do his 11overpool early ling harass? I've seen him open this way to great effect, but I can't decide whether it's a better opening than 15 pool. . .

I have more often seen him not doing damage and sitting there with 6-8 useless lings in the early game. Regarding his midgame is so good, I don't think thats a good risk to take.

Well what I'm wondering is whether it really impacts the mid-game that much, I've heard arguments that the 11 Overpool is just as economical as 14/15 pools.

I think thats right. 11 Overpool is only a bit behind in eco. Problem is the amount of lings you make.
Its not a big eco risk, he still won most games, but I think its unnecessary.
Liquid`Snute
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Norway839 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 16:02:50
April 12 2012 15:59 GMT
#180
Heres another 11min example, this time maxed out at 11:01. i wonder who can bring it to 10:40 first (edit: if not like 10:25-30) xD
DL: http://drop.sc/158539

+ Show Spoiler [replay comments] +
major shortcuts:
- blind 3rd base
- skipped lingspeed
- skipped detection
- ignoring incoming 8min pressure (lucky cancel in this rep)

room for improvement?
- fewer drones and 4gas instead of 5, will it hit max sooner? more safe either way
- a bit late 5gas for the amount of drones.
- macrohatch could even be a 4th, maybe its not needed in the first place with lower drone count?
- get detection in for the build to remain legit and transitionable
- slight saturation balance obviously


It's really braindead but works wonders. Hopefully zergs will be able to optimize 3-4base 4gas mass roach a bit more so we can see some truly crisp timings, and hopefully will P find ways to at the very least survive in those cases where 8min-pressure is not applied.

Good luck everyone! looking forward to the development
Team Liquid
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 19 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 47m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft539
SortOf 71
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 317
GuemChi 317
ajuk12(nOOB) 102
scan(afreeca) 71
Sacsri 38
Shinee 29
JulyZerg 20
GoRush 18
Purpose 16
SilentControl 12
[ Show more ]
ZergMaN 12
Bale 12
Dota 2
XaKoH 551
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv515
Stewie2K488
kRYSTAL_21
Other Games
summit1g8911
C9.Mang0343
Liquid`RaSZi323
Tasteless321
Mew2King98
Trikslyr22
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick863
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 75
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH215
• StrangeGG 52
• Gemini_19 18
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1686
• Stunt509
• HappyZerGling132
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
47m
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3h 47m
Replay Cast
15h 47m
PiG Sty Festival
1d
Maru vs Bunny
Classic vs SHIN
The PondCast
1d 1h
KCM Race Survival
1d 1h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 3h
OSC
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 15h
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Clem vs Percival
Zoun vs Solar
[ Show More ]
Epic.LAN
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
herO vs NightMare
Reynor vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
Serral vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

C-League Week 31
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026: China & Korea Invitational
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.