EPT( if this is played on NA server that is ) / if it is not I apologize
[G] Stephano-Style ZvP – The 12 Minute Max-Out - Page 8
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Erotheiss
United States6 Posts
( if this is played on NA server that is ) / if it is not I apologize | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On April 05 2012 11:40 ZenithM wrote: Well that's still to make an abusive unstoppable push at some early point in the game (12 min is still early for PvZ). When the build is designed so that your opponent cannot macro himself, it cannot really be called a "macro" build. That's like calling a 7 gate after Nexus first in PvT a macro build. Well it's a little different than a 7gate, because Zerg players who do this build have 60+ drones, 4-5 hatcheries, and decent upgrades. It's not difficult to add on additional geysers and a few drones to tech to spire, infestation, hydra, hive, overlord drop,etc. | ||
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BlueBoxSC
United States582 Posts
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
It's so nice to feel swarmy for once. Instead of dodging and hiding and turtleling until broodlords. I wish there was a build like this in ZvT...but Terran's early game is so abusive, and repairs give them too much staying power for this to work. | ||
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SKGZombie
United States42 Posts
Heres a replay (playing by myself) where I hit 72 supply by the 8 min mark off of an 11 pool http://drop.sc/154606 Also have you seen Alej's post in the how to beat Stephano style thread regarding the 12:30 hydra ling max used by Hyun? On April 04 2012 03:42 Alejandrisha wrote: while this isn't pure roach i played hyun and he did a roach/ling hydra thing.. replicated it vs ai and here's what happens: standard 14/16 3rd hatch at 21ish ~16 lings at 7:30 for safety 5-8 safety roaches shortly after made 4 spores to simulate sg w/e 10:00 - 8 roaches 30 speed lings are at P 3rd base +1 range finishes at 10:50 11:00 - 8 speed roaches 7 range hydras 60 speed lings at p 3rd base 12:00 - 8 speed roaches 19 range hydra 106 speed lings 12:30 maxed. 8 speed roaches 28 range hydra 124 speed lings (4 of the hydras and 12 of the lings haven't quite hatched, though. what to do O_O edit: 2 gases standard timing then 2nd 2 are taken at about 60 food. 58 drones in this run | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On April 06 2012 02:57 SKGZombie wrote: Hey Tang have you tried this build with an 11 or 12 pool? I've been practicing it for a while and you can hit the 70 supply by the 8min macro benchmark with 2 gas Evo and RW. What this does is makes pylon blocks at your natural a non issue as 4 lings are out just as soon as you would send a drone from your main to make a hatch at your nat. This also allows you to send your second overlord out onto the map to scout rather than to your nat or third to check for pylons since you'll have lings to patrol these bases to watch for cannons. Heres a replay (playing by myself) where I hit 72 supply by the 8 min mark off of an 11 pool http://drop.sc/154606 Also have you seen Alej's post in the how to beat Stephano style thread regarding the 12:30 hydra ling max used by Hyun? Actually yeah, those games of Stephano against LoCo he opens 11 pool both times and does some damage. I like it, but I still prefer the 15pool. | ||
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Anomi
Sweden149 Posts
preview pic: http://i.imgur.com/PekvT.jpg : download link: https://rapidshare.com/files/2744717048/stephano_zvp_build_strukture.docx | ||
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
On April 05 2012 12:00 ZenithM wrote: There is a whole Protoss strategy thread (older than this one in fact) which mostly concluded that in theory this ZvP build shouldn't fail, and is at least very hard to stop/requires a very specific response. Stephano rarely loses with it btw. I didn't mean that it's an all in, more like it's not designed to play a macro game with Protoss. The goal is still to deny his third over and over by swarming him with an overwhelming amount of roaches early in the game, until P's just forced to 2 base all in. In fact, that may be the earliest dangerous Zerg timing in the ZvP matchup which isn't an all in. This build is very good. A macro build? Well, you macro some roaches indeed, can't deny that. If a build that gets 60 workers, maxes out at 12 minutes, has a solid timing and allows for a transition isn't a macro build, then what is? Honestly I think the only way you can disregard this as a macro build is by swearing to the NO RUSH 20 mentality of some zergs.  | ||
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LazinCajun
United States294 Posts
1) Keep flooding low tech units and end up in a situation where you HAVE to do damage before it gets too hard to trade somewhat efficiently, in which case it can feel like a 3 base max pop all-in as strange as that sounds. Or, 2) Very carefully make your way up to hive tech, somehow trying to trade supply ineffecient roaches out to make room for better units. The hard part (imo) here is staying safe while doing so. For comparison's sake, day9 highlighted a couple games from stephano on shakuras where he wasn't pressured much, and didn't make more than ~20 roaches. The P went for a pretty quick 3rd IIRC, and stephano only lightly pressured. He went over 100 drones, and basically went drone - spinecrawler - hatchery - creep spread while teching extremely hard to infestor / broodlord (with a decent chunk of corruptors thrown in to deal with a collosus push). The spines plus his small ground army with infestors let him grab a huge tech advantage, and he just walked over and killed the P with some stupid amount of broods. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On April 08 2012 06:16 Anomi wrote: I structured up the guide outlines on 1 page for those that just want a document to print out. preview pic: http://i.imgur.com/PekvT.jpg : download link: https://rapidshare.com/files/2744717048/stephano_zvp_build_strukture.docx Thanks for making this, Anomi! I'm sure it will help some players remember the steps. | ||
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shizaep
Canada2920 Posts
I have a request that I hope you will do: could you make a guide on beating Terran mech as zerg, I think a lot of people will appreciate it. Thanks! | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On April 10 2012 03:32 shizaep wrote: Hey Tang, I just dropped by to say that I have enjoyed all of your guides and this one was the best one so far. I have a request that I hope you will do: could you make a guide on beating Terran mech as zerg, I think a lot of people will appreciate it. Thanks! My next guide will be on ZvT, but it's DRG's roach/ling/baneling. Coincidentally it works well against hellion expand, which is a common opener when players are going mech. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
On April 11 2012 02:35 TangSC wrote: My next guide will be on ZvT, but it's DRG's roach/ling/baneling. Coincidentally it works well against hellion expand, which is a common opener when players are going mech. That would be nice. I'm doing a version of that build right now, although I'm not sure if it's optimized. 9 drone scout* 15 hatch, 14pool, 15 gas, two queens *scout* *1 rax, 1gas= 1 spine crawler *2 rax, 2 spine crawler, earlier roach warren *two gas, evolution chamber, 3rd queen and spore...(keep going with the roach rush, Terran will be forced to choose between saving their own base with the banshee or going for a base trade....which they WILL lose) ****** drone to 28 lingspeed roach warren banelingnest 2 overlords 7 roaches 1 overlord as many lings as I can afford. rally to opponent's base, inject, more lings 8-10 banelings, 2 more in the back morphing while the attack occurs. hits at 8:40 bust down the front supply depo, keep any left over banes alive and in a separate control group. focus on raping scvs and clups of marines with any spare banelings. works great. Most amazing thing about this build is that it's all off one gas. <3 DRG sexiest man alive. I want his babies. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On April 11 2012 07:41 neoghaleon55 wrote: Most amazing thing about this build is that it's all off one gas. Actually the build I'm referring to is a 2gas version, droning to 44 before placing the warren down. This hits around 8:40 as well, but has way more drones, which makes it easier to transition into muta like DRG or mass ling/infestor like Stephano (or any other number of viable alternatives). The one you're talking about seems more all-in because you build drones only to 28, similar to the "big bust" all-in I talk about in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306525 | ||
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usNEUX
United States76 Posts
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InfectedGoat
Canada444 Posts
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
Someone in Korea better call JYP then because he can't seem to  | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On April 12 2012 02:03 InfectedGoat wrote: Haha I think you can change the title to 11 minutes, he just did it!! Was this a game on Stephano's stream today? (Just curious.) | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On a side note: You will almost certainly lose your third hatch if the P gets a pylon down near your base and builds between 8 and 10 zealots. (This assumes of course you didn't see it in time.) I've seen Stephano's third go down once or twice this way (to Bischu or Dream at the EG Cup recently). However, assuming you build enough roaches when you see this happening and transfer your drones away, you should still, surprisingly, be ahead of Protoss as long as you throw down a macro hatch, kill the zealots and then re-expand to the third. I've actually never lost when doing this build after losing my third to a gateway army. Protoss always has to invest so much and usually loses everything just to get the hatch. It's usually not cost effective. | ||
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
Oh and all by 11:30. | ||
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