EPTOnce there are enough void rays on the field, it becomes a stalemate where he can't attack the creep and the roaches can't deny expansions anymore.
[G] Stephano-Style ZvP – The 12 Minute Max-Out - Page 19
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yevoc
United States93 Posts
Once there are enough void rays on the field, it becomes a stalemate where he can't attack the creep and the roaches can't deny expansions anymore. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On September 04 2012 03:55 yevoc wrote: I just learned the hard way that not eventually getting a spire can really, really hurt if the game drags on. Once there are enough void rays on the field, it becomes a stalemate where he can't attack the creep and the roaches can't deny expansions anymore. Usually if you can keep Protoss contained to two bases long enough, you can continue trading roaches off of your three-base economy until you win. If he's still on two-bases by 11-12minutes, you should be pretty relentless with your roaches, knowing that you have the saturation behind it to continue reinforcing, and he won't be able to match production. Still, it's not a bad idea to squeeze out those extra 8-10 drones to take the additional 2 geysers and a spire (once you've successfully denied the third), mixing in corruptors with your roaches will keep his voidray/colossus below a critical number. | ||
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TheOnlyRedViper
Norway20 Posts
Do you have the same experience or I'm I off? The cool thing, I think is that you can do the opening then choose if you want to play the max out style or something else, and still utilizing the potential power of a 11:00-11:30 maxout vs an array of protoss all ins. What are your thoughts about the style in the present "metagame" ? | ||
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On October 20 2012 17:51 Salivanth wrote: The first 8 minutes are incredibly standard no matter what you do in ZvP. The timings the pros use may change slightly, but you can definitely go 6:00 2x gas, 7:00 RW + Evo, 7:30 Lair and then go into whatever you like, such as muta-ling, ling-infestor, etc. The maxout style only really starts at the 8-minute mark when you pump OLs and Roaches: Before that, it's about 95% standard macro ZvP. The gas and lair timings in standard ZvP were defined by this opening though, not copied by it | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On October 20 2012 02:20 TheOnlyRedViper wrote: The cool thing, I think is that you can do the opening then choose if you want to play the max out style or something else, and still utilizing the potential power of a 11:00-11:30 maxout vs an array of protoss all ins. What are your thoughts about the style in the present "metagame" ? More players are steering towards mutalisks when Protoss takes a third, by taking a fourth and immediately moving up to 6 gas. It's rare to see top-tier players still maxing out on Roaches in response to a third nexus, the Roach-max is more used to hold off 2-base all-ins. | ||
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Infocus
Canada31 Posts
On November 19 2012 03:34 TangSC wrote: More players are steering towards mutalisks when Protoss takes a third, by taking a fourth and immediately moving up to 6 gas. It's rare to see top-tier players still maxing out on Roaches in response to a third nexus, the Roach-max is more used to hold off 2-base all-ins. O.o I always thought that the roach max was designed to deny a 3rd base and so was very good against failed 2 base all ins, Aren't most 2 base all ins designed to hit before the production cycle of your 4/5 hatch + injects really come into play? | ||
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naggerNZ
New Zealand708 Posts
On November 19 2012 13:40 Infocus wrote: O.o I always thought that the roach max was designed to deny a 3rd base and so was very good against failed 2 base all ins, Aren't most 2 base all ins designed to hit before the production cycle of your 4/5 hatch + injects really come into play? The prevalence of Immortal/Sentry openers in combination with closer thirds and Protoss players adapting to the heavy Roach max style with more careful forcefield use and walling off open sections of their third means that the chance of denying a third has decreased significantly. It's basically been almost made obsolete by rapid Hive tech timings and mutalisk play. We may see a resurgence of aggressive mid-game unit compositions, however, as Korean Protoss players have started to figure out extremely strong Pre-Hive attack timings off of three bases (look at most of Rain's ZvPs on Daybreak from BWC to know exactly what I'm talking about). I'm imagining a transition to heavily upgraded Roach/Ling/Infestor/Corrupter compositions until Zerg is on 5bases with 10 gas geysers operational as becoming the next step in the metagame. | ||
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vahgar.r24
India465 Posts
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PHXerxes
Germany8 Posts
not only the msc is new voidrays so incredible strong against like everything what the zerg got and hydras with the buff are just much stronger than the roaches , i think mass lings are now better than ling roach style (i´m protoss and got more problems against mass lings than roach ling) | ||
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Banorac
Belgium2 Posts
Considering the last reply was from november 2012, that should have given you a hint. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On May 16 2013 22:01 Banorac wrote: The opening is still somewhat valid, but the getting pure roach part has become somewhat obsolete, much like this thread. Considering the last reply was from november 2012, that should have given you a hint. Well the opening has changed a bit, but I don't think pure roach is obsolete - in fact, I think it's still one of the stronger approaches to mid-game ZvP - especially with the effective hydra transitions. | ||
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On May 16 2013 22:50 TangSC wrote: Well the opening has changed a bit, but I don't think pure roach is obsolete - in fact, I think it's still one of the stronger approaches to mid-game ZvP - especially with the effective hydra transitions. Additionally, on many ladder maps holding the third is a nightmare for the Protoss so yeah, while this build may be outdated, lair tech bust remain extremely effective. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On May 16 2013 23:13 Teoita wrote: Additionally, on many ladder maps holding the third is a nightmare for the Protoss so yeah, while this build may be outdated, lair tech bust remain extremely effective. Yeah that's really true some of the the new maps, even on Akilon wastes (which seems like an easier third behind the rocks) the natural ramp is HUGE and tough for Toss to defend. | ||
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ManiacTheZealot
United States490 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
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