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[G] Zerg Guide to Macro-Aggression - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Disarm22
Profile Joined January 2011
United States151 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-11 00:09:23
January 11 2012 00:05 GMT
#81
i dont understand why people are arguing that this is a one base timing. the guide clearly teaches you how to macro as well as play aggressive. I think having a game plan is the best way to improve and perfect your play. Can't wait to try this out.
Cliiiiiiide!
zoohairZ
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada254 Posts
January 11 2012 00:33 GMT
#82
Tang, this is coming from me. Im notorious for cheesing almost everyone on the ladder at the GM level. Stop posting crap. Your builds are all either cheesy or all-in (i should know), so stop making threads with misleading titles. You're gonna divert the lower league players who should really be practicing legit standard macro mechanics into people who rely on cheesing and all inning. This may sound hypocritical but the only times i ever cheese is on ladder, i can play a standard macro game too and still beat top level players. Ive got replays to prove it if anyone doesnt believe me either. There is indeed a playstyle that consists of a zerg being aggressive, but this is not it. So stop posting crap.

User was warned for this post
hysterial
Profile Joined April 2011
United States2044 Posts
January 11 2012 00:39 GMT
#83
I hate how this is called macro-agression. I understand the build, I understand the follow-up, and the implications of both. However this is not MACRO based play in the slightest. This is more win the game early and hold onto a massive lead for a 100% guaranteed win. The guide is very descriptive and informative, I just worry that this style of play will set up a lot of zergs for failure as they start to get players who are able to actually defend this push.
lorestarcraft
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1049 Posts
January 11 2012 00:42 GMT
#84
On January 09 2012 07:37 Catgroove wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2012 07:21 TangSC wrote:
On January 09 2012 07:20 Soldier92 wrote:
I've read all your guides Tang, and I'm wondering if you will ever include anything beyond 1 base timings. At tbhis point in the meta 1 base plays are becoming less and less successful. I haven't seen any plan for a transition in your guides, are they allin gambles?

I'm a bit confused at where you saw the 1-base timing? This build opens with a fast expansion and recommends taking your 3rd base by 7:15. The only time I would recommend a 1-base timing would be for players learning the basics (bronze/silver).


Yes! The best way to improve is to take the easy route, right? Don't play to win, play to get better. One base allins won't make you better (well, to some extent it will, but if you really wanna improve and improve fast you should not do it).


That is not correct, I four gated until I got to Platinum, then I abruptly stopped because it stopped working. I did teach me mechanics and micro, now I am high in Diamond and I never do any all-ins.
SC2 Mapmaker
Funnyguy17
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1 Post
January 11 2012 02:10 GMT
#85
Thank you Tang, This post just got me back into the game. I never really cared about builds I just made stuff but that has all changed now :D.
"I am with my eye, I shoot with my mind, I kill with my heart"
HelixDnB
Profile Joined March 2011
United States34 Posts
January 11 2012 02:14 GMT
#86
Tang - what do you do vs banshee openings with this? Just stop the attack, defend, and then attack again later when you're able to?
"Shouting bite-sized self-assuring snippets of random thoughts into the air is basically how our generation communicates now."
Mahtasooma
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany475 Posts
January 11 2012 02:37 GMT
#87
On January 11 2012 09:33 zoohairz wrote:
Tang, this is coming from me. Im notorious for cheesing almost everyone on the ladder at the GM level. Stop posting crap. Your builds are all either cheesy or all-in (i should know), so stop making threads with misleading titles. You're gonna divert the lower league players who should really be practicing legit standard macro mechanics into people who rely on cheesing and all inning. This may sound hypocritical but the only times i ever cheese is on ladder, i can play a standard macro game too and still beat top level players. Ive got replays to prove it if anyone doesnt believe me either. There is indeed a playstyle that consists of a zerg being aggressive, but this is not it. So stop posting crap.


can we please clear the forums of ultratrolls like these, bragging about GM, saying he cheeses all the time, but he can macro as well and is ready to show it? How is this contributing to anything really?

Where is all the hate coming from, anyway? Ts that hate to stop macroing like a boss behind his 4 hellions?

http://twitch.tv/mahtasooma
zoohairZ
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada254 Posts
January 11 2012 04:17 GMT
#88
On January 11 2012 11:37 Morghaine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2012 09:33 zoohairz wrote:
Tang, this is coming from me. Im notorious for cheesing almost everyone on the ladder at the GM level. Stop posting crap. Your builds are all either cheesy or all-in (i should know), so stop making threads with misleading titles. You're gonna divert the lower league players who should really be practicing legit standard macro mechanics into people who rely on cheesing and all inning. This may sound hypocritical but the only times i ever cheese is on ladder, i can play a standard macro game too and still beat top level players. Ive got replays to prove it if anyone doesnt believe me either. There is indeed a playstyle that consists of a zerg being aggressive, but this is not it. So stop posting crap.


can we please clear the forums of ultratrolls like these, bragging about GM, saying he cheeses all the time, but he can macro as well and is ready to show it? How is this contributing to anything really?

Where is all the hate coming from, anyway? Ts that hate to stop macroing like a boss behind his 4 hellions?



You have problems way beyond your ability to comprehend the context of a post. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I was bragging about anything at all.
NoSlack
Profile Joined November 2010
United States112 Posts
January 11 2012 04:40 GMT
#89
On January 11 2012 13:17 zoohairz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2012 11:37 Morghaine wrote:
On January 11 2012 09:33 zoohairz wrote:
Tang, this is coming from me. Im notorious for cheesing almost everyone on the ladder at the GM level. Stop posting crap. Your builds are all either cheesy or all-in (i should know), so stop making threads with misleading titles. You're gonna divert the lower league players who should really be practicing legit standard macro mechanics into people who rely on cheesing and all inning. This may sound hypocritical but the only times i ever cheese is on ladder, i can play a standard macro game too and still beat top level players. Ive got replays to prove it if anyone doesnt believe me either. There is indeed a playstyle that consists of a zerg being aggressive, but this is not it. So stop posting crap.


can we please clear the forums of ultratrolls like these, bragging about GM, saying he cheeses all the time, but he can macro as well and is ready to show it? How is this contributing to anything really?

Where is all the hate coming from, anyway? Ts that hate to stop macroing like a boss behind his 4 hellions?



You have problems way beyond your ability to comprehend the context of a post. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I was bragging about anything at all.


Umm....

On January 11 2012 09:33 zoohairz wrote:
Tang, this is coming from me. Im notorious for cheesing almost everyone on the ladder at the GM level. ...
...
i can play a standard macro game too and still beat top level players. Ive got replays to prove it if anyone doesnt believe me either.
...


Sounds like bragging to me... This build will work to a certain level on the ladder. Those masters players probably don't need it, but players like me appreciate the build and it's really got my gears turning in my head. I'm deployed in Afghanistan so I can't ladder because the internet is too slow, but doing it vs the AI is good for practice for when I get back. Usually I just build stuff that I think I need with no real structure or timings.

zoohairz I'd be happy to see your guide so I can learn some stuff from it as well. Thanks in advance!
zoohairZ
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada254 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-11 04:51:53
January 11 2012 04:50 GMT
#90
i was just providing credibility to my post, not bragging.
edit: i dont do guides, but i do coach, and it doesnt involve teaching people how to all in. GET AT ME.
(yes, im being sarcastic.)
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-11 05:23:49
January 11 2012 05:07 GMT
#91
^ I'm pretty sure everything Tang writes are just guides for bronze to platinum. He makes it pretty clear that none of this is really viable at the top level of play. I think what people really just need to take away from his guides - if I may be so presumptuous as to speak to his intentions - is to get a build down solidly (remember the guy who 6 pooled to GM? He wasn't great, but he is the best 6 pooler around), have a direction in your play, and just macro well and learn to make good decisions.

I mean... I'm very certain that at masters+, maybe even diamond nowadays, the DRG style 28 supply roach warren 8-12 roach pressure vs reactor/bf hellion expands, just does not work at all anymore. Terrans realize they can just make a single bunker/marauder/tank, terrans no longer make 10+ hellions from reactor hellion expand (rarely I even see more than 4) and use decent micro, as well as be macro'ing half decently so they don't fall behind or die when they shouldn't. But at bronze, learning what map control means, and why you can take a third so early when you have map control while otherwise you always feel so unsafe, is a great way to improve your game.

Like he says in the bronze section make 4 lings. That's suicide to make that many, often times even just opening with 2 is too many. But at bronze, you probably need to be told "dont be making more than 4 lings" rather than "only make 2". This is clearly a lower level guide.

I mean... I wouldn't write guides that aren't viable at masters (ie when people macro normally), but the guy is helping people so he's not doing anything wrong. Plus I think he's sort of promoting his coaching stuff, and giving lots of feedback to lower level players. Not everyone is diamond like us bro

edit: why are there two guides by this guy of the exact same build?
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
snexwang
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia224 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-11 06:06:58
January 11 2012 06:06 GMT
#92
why are there two guides by this guy of the exact same build?
I think, to begin with, he was using that build as an example in his overall guide... but then it seems like it became entirely focused on the build, whether intentional or not.
whoopingchow
Profile Joined June 2011
United States293 Posts
January 11 2012 06:12 GMT
#93
I'm terran, and I'm just wondering. How do you defend against this? Obviously, siege mode is going to be key, but with 8 roaches at the top of my ramp at 7:15, I may only have a single siege tank sieged up, and if I try to push anytime around that and my units are caught in the open, 32 speedlings are just going to eat through everything. Fast banshees? If I want to get siege tech and banshees, that's going to delay my expansion by a huge amount that I'm just not that comfortable with. Any advice?
stakiman
Profile Joined May 2010
Bulgaria42 Posts
January 11 2012 06:23 GMT
#94
Thanks for this guide, i learned one thing from it, but it was still worth it! - "Don't pull drones off mining!" Thanks, master player here.
Be the change you want to see in the world
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
January 11 2012 06:26 GMT
#95
TL hates on the cheese.

Good build Tang, thanks for the post.

Unfortunately, the western scene considers themselves too good for aggression before the 10 minute mark.

That kind of stuff is for scrubs, not people who... you know... like winning...

Stupid cheese...

...

:|
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
mrGRAPE
Profile Joined November 2011
Singapore293 Posts
January 11 2012 06:28 GMT
#96
On January 11 2012 15:12 whoopingchow wrote:
I'm terran, and I'm just wondering. How do you defend against this? Obviously, siege mode is going to be key, but with 8 roaches at the top of my ramp at 7:15, I may only have a single siege tank sieged up, and if I try to push anytime around that and my units are caught in the open, 32 speedlings are just going to eat through everything. Fast banshees? If I want to get siege tech and banshees, that's going to delay my expansion by a huge amount that I'm just not that comfortable with. Any advice?



So far from my experience on the ladder ~Plat level, this push can be scouted for an pre-empted if you poked up with like a marine and find very little lings at his natural. Scan, build a tech lab immediately and a bunker if you're anticipating that the push will be coming and just hold at your ramp. You don't necessarily need siege mode to hold this off. I've played a Terran who held this off even though I broke his wall and killed one supply depot off. He just planted two marauders behind those depots and with pure marine/tank dps managed to repel my attack.

Like I said before, this works well against a reactor hellion expand. If you're going 1/1/1 you can hold this off long enough for the Zerg to realize that it's not worth the push up the ramp.
Starcraft 2 and eSports enthusiast. https://twitter.com/#!/mrGRAPETV | http://mrgrapetv.wordpress.com/
NoSlack
Profile Joined November 2010
United States112 Posts
January 11 2012 06:35 GMT
#97
mrGRAPE when using this on the ladder and getting stopped were you behind in the game? Did you win?
mrGRAPE
Profile Joined November 2011
Singapore293 Posts
January 11 2012 06:58 GMT
#98
On January 11 2012 15:35 NoSlack wrote:
mrGRAPE when using this on the ladder and getting stopped were you behind in the game? Did you win?


That depends.

I've honestly won just about as much as I lost, though I think the deciding factor was what both of us were doing during and after the push. Sometimes I lose a little too many roaches and decide to make more in preparation for a counter attack that never came, so I fell behind in economy therefore losing to a mid-late game push. Other times I *think* I'm in a better position in terms of army count and try to get a little greedy by expanding / droning hard during the push only to get rolled over by a 1/1/1 with cloaked banshee timing attack.

So... in terms of getting stopped by the Terran player and still winning the game, I think it mostly came down to reading my opponent correctly - whether he was going to play passive as the initial pressure, and whether or not he was going to counter attack soon after the push. Once I have established the correct response from my opponent, then I'd be able to do whatever I need to get ahead - take a 3rd, more spines/roaches, lair tech mutas etc

In other times, I completely get caught off guard by early banshees - I never seem to be able to get an evo chamber / spores just soon enough to hold it off. Usually one or two queens would get killed and that would set me back quite a bit.
Starcraft 2 and eSports enthusiast. https://twitter.com/#!/mrGRAPETV | http://mrgrapetv.wordpress.com/
Pugsly
Profile Joined February 2011
United States50 Posts
January 11 2012 07:09 GMT
#99
I'm sorry in advance, but I'm going to have to bring up a reference from Destiny in regards to drone splitting. How many time, in any tournament, ladder, or custom game, where you look back on your play and you go "damn, if I had only split my drones at the beginning of the game. I understand the fact that it keeps your fingers moving and what not. However, players in gold/plat should rather work on their macro/mechanics, as that is what everyone player should do before going out and trying to learn builds.
Thank You Based God
COLDbear
Profile Joined December 2011
United States39 Posts
January 11 2012 07:16 GMT
#100
Thanks a lot for such an in depth guide. Although I am not a primary Zerg user, I still find this to be useful.
Fav sites: StarcraftDiary.com, GosuGamers.net, Drop.SC
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