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On January 13 2012 06:09 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 05:38 Xterminator wrote:
I like this strategy, I have used it several times with success, The part after the timing is where ideally if the terran doesnt harass at all you can get 200/200 at your time, I think if you don't win against the timing the terran can counter and force you to make units instead of drones. Haven't played more than 5 games so far, My favorite thing is that you dont have to worry about hellion harass and not being able to take a 3rd till 10-12 minutes. You really shouldn't drone/mass to 200 like I did in the replay, it's a bit unrealistic because you have to stay safe against counter-attacks.
The build works great the terran can't do anything while your attacking so you can drone up and take a 3rd and a macro hatch soon after and be at 70 drones in no time while the terran tries to rebuild. Even though I was at 200/200 I died to a thor/BF allin, mass 3/1 thors own muta/roach.
Do you have any idea how this would work against a protoss? Or would they all ready have sentries out and be able to easily defend?
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On January 13 2012 06:38 Xterminator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 06:09 TangSC wrote:On January 13 2012 05:38 Xterminator wrote:
I like this strategy, I have used it several times with success, The part after the timing is where ideally if the terran doesnt harass at all you can get 200/200 at your time, I think if you don't win against the timing the terran can counter and force you to make units instead of drones. Haven't played more than 5 games so far, My favorite thing is that you dont have to worry about hellion harass and not being able to take a 3rd till 10-12 minutes. You really shouldn't drone/mass to 200 like I did in the replay, it's a bit unrealistic because you have to stay safe against counter-attacks. Do you have any idea how this would work against a protoss? Or would they all ready have sentries out and be able to easily defend?
I think the majority of high-level protoss who FFE would have no problem holding this. A similar style could be used against 1gate or 3gate expands, but for the most part it's hard to be aggressive at this timing against protoss.
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On January 11 2012 17:48 kybarnet wrote:
1) 16 drones per min patch (2 per patch). Some say 3 for far patches is more optimal, but for Z in general (unless you are doing a two base timing) would you say no more than 16?
I would say whether you're on 5 bases or 1, 16 drones mining 2 per patch is optimal. This is my personal preference, like you said some people argue 3.
2) ALWAYS build structures, mine gas, with new morphed drones (rather than pull and replace). Honestly I could imagine that over time that this creates a lot of econ efficiency. Personally I tend to mass pull, then mass redrone, not really caring if I'm at 16 or 22.
I think this is the case for a lot of people. The more care you can put into managing your economy, the more you can maximize it. You'd be surprised how much more you mine if you keep 16 mining 2 per patch and don't take them off for any reason.
3) Taking 3rd hatches with map control. IF you have map control, he advocates a 3rd when you have ~5 workers on your expo. Is this reasonable (assuming the opponent has expanded)?
In theory, you could just take a macro hatch first until you were sure. I don't think I've ever had to counter a 3rd base because of a counter-attack. If they're going marine/tank/hellion they're not going to attack for a while, the most common terran attacks after the roach/ling will be either banshees or a hellion/marine drop in the main - in these circumstances it doesn't matter too much if you have a 3rd.
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Incredible guide Tang, I recently got into gold and your completely right about only focusing on the build order and general timings. Its really helped my gameplay improve alot, and im really impressed by the depth of this guide for how concise it is.
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On January 20 2012 04:46 Speedster155 wrote:
Incredible guide Tang, I recently got into gold and your completely right about only focusing on the build order and general timings. Its really helped my gameplay improve alot, and im really impressed by the depth of this guide for how concise it is.
Thanks a lot Speedster! What race do you play? If Zerg, it'd be great if you uploaded a few replays using this or similar styles so other gold and below players can benefit.
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Hi Tang,
I'm a mid/high plat who's been trying aggressive zerg style over the past few months, using a few of your guides to change my game view. I've been doing some roach aggression vs Protoss who FFE, but when I don't kill off their nexus, I feel super behind the whole game, and eventually die to a deathball push. Is there a way to deal with this, or what do you against P who FFE?
Thanks
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On January 26 2012 10:57 ghostCatalyst wrote:
Hi Tang,
I'm a mid/high plat who's been trying aggressive zerg style over the past few months, using a few of your guides to change my game view. I've been doing some roach aggression vs Protoss who FFE, but when I don't kill off their nexus, I feel super behind the whole game, and eventually die to a deathball push. Is there a way to deal with this, or what do you against P who FFE?
Thanks
Hey ghost,
I do this against FFE: http://www.twitch.tv/tangsc/b/302592802
Hope it helps. I haven't been as successful with straight timing pushes in ZvP.
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Such a nice guide.
10/10
Thanks!
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On January 27 2012 00:16 TheTurk wrote:
Such a nice guide.
10/10
Thanks!
Ty turk 
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I don't understand why people have some hate against the OP because of his stylistic choice of play. I personal play a similar style using an intial army to contain while gaining map control. Yes Banshee's/drops are quite a common response but it's so predictable that you just get those extra queens and a spine crawler or two a little earlier...
Why do so many Zergs think that any build that doesn't optimize economy is "all in"? Tell that Leenock! I believe the OP is actually advocating quite a balanced play style that contains/pressures the opponent while he safely macro's behind it. How is this not a good transition or any less valid than droning to 70+?
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On January 27 2012 11:23 XChoke wrote:
I don't understand why people have some hate against the OP because of his stylistic choice of play. I personal play a similar style using an intial army to contain while gaining map control. Yes Banshee's/drops are quite a common response but it's so predictable that you just get those extra queens and a spine crawler or two a little earlier...
Why do so many Zergs think that any build that doesn't optimize economy is "all in"? Tell that Leenock! I believe the OP is actually advocating quite a balanced play style that contains/pressures the opponent while he safely macro's behind it. How is this not a good transition or any less valid than droning to 70+?
I agree XChoke, I think there's a double-standard in StarCraft where Terran and Protoss players are expected to do pressure builds but if a Zerg player tries to pressure it's suddenly cheese. I hope more people open up to the variety of strategies in SC2!
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Love the guide Tang! Was having some trouble breaking into gold as I was always droning and never really attacking until I had mutas or was near maxed out. Also your site looks like a zerg gold-mine. Keep up the awesome work!
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On January 28 2012 13:20 VaLix wrote:
Love the guide Tang! Was having some trouble breaking into gold as I was always droning and never really attacking until I had mutas or was near maxed out. Also your site looks like a zerg gold-mine. Keep up the awesome work!
Np VaLix, early/mid game timing attacks are a great way to improve and progress through the divisions. Thanks for viewing my site and GL in your gaming!
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Can we see these builds in a replay? Preferably on Youtube.
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On January 29 2012 04:53 BalliSLife wrote:
Can we see these builds in a replay? Preferably on Youtube.
http://drop.sc/85214
Not on youtube sry.
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On January 13 2012 06:38 Xterminator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 06:09 TangSC wrote:On January 13 2012 05:38 Xterminator wrote:
I like this strategy, I have used it several times with success, The part after the timing is where ideally if the terran doesnt harass at all you can get 200/200 at your time, I think if you don't win against the timing the terran can counter and force you to make units instead of drones. Haven't played more than 5 games so far, My favorite thing is that you dont have to worry about hellion harass and not being able to take a 3rd till 10-12 minutes. You really shouldn't drone/mass to 200 like I did in the replay, it's a bit unrealistic because you have to stay safe against counter-attacks. Even though I was at 200/200 I died to a thor/BF allin, mass 3/1 thors own muta/roach.
Late game thors are so strong, it's important to go infestors/broodlords in this scenario. Also, if you're going roach/muta in the midgame, you can abuse the immobility of mech by hitting multiple targets.
Take Antiga Shipyard for example. Once terran takes a 3rd base, they're going to be fairly spread out - you can use your mutas in the main, run away when thors are close, and take your large roach army through the rocks and into his 3rd. I occasionally even get overlord drop so that I can drop 16lings into the main, forcing him to pull back some of his army so that I can attack elsewhere.
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Tang this build I beautiful. I have used a variation of this for the last two weeks and have not lost to a Terran at all in those two weeks. The exciting thing for me is that your build is actually further optimized than mine. Thank you for the wicked guide, I look forward to testing it out soon!
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On February 03 2012 07:47 JBSnafet wrote:
Tang this build I beautiful. I have used a variation of this for the last two weeks and have not lost to a Terran at all in those two weeks. The exciting thing for me is that your build is actually further optimized than mine. Thank you for the wicked guide, I look forward to testing it out soon!
That's awesome that the style has been working for you JB, it catches a lot of players off guard because zerg is so expected to be passive. I'm glad the guide has helped refine your ZvT build ^^
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10/10 Great guide Will be trying this and practicing tonight!
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On February 04 2012 05:08 NostalgiaTag wrote:
10/10 Great guide Will be trying this and practicing tonight!
If it goes well, post the reps! 
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EPT
