• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:23
CEST 03:23
KST 10:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL54Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?12FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event16Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
Korean Starcraft League Week 77 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL Unit and Spell Similarities Help: rep cant save
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 617 users

[G] Zerg Guide to Macro-Aggression - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 Next All
Rewok
Profile Joined September 2010
40 Posts
March 16 2012 20:05 GMT
#141
Love this ZvT style.

In one week, I went from Top 50 gold where I was stuck to top 8 platinum. braveZOMBiE.532

My win rate against Terran is like 90%. Now that I've figured out how to hold the initial bunker rush, it's more like 100%.

I just remember being stuck in Gold and then winning like 15 straight vs gold, platinum and eventually diamond.

If your ZvT could use some work, this guide ROCKS.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
March 18 2012 17:32 GMT
#142
On March 17 2012 05:05 Rewok wrote:
Love this ZvT style.

In one week, I went from Top 50 gold where I was stuck to top 8 platinum. braveZOMBiE.532

My win rate against Terran is like 90%. Now that I've figured out how to hold the initial bunker rush, it's more like 100%.

I just remember being stuck in Gold and then winning like 15 straight vs gold, platinum and eventually diamond.

If your ZvT could use some work, this guide ROCKS.

Bunker rushes require you to pull drones from your main and occasionally produce a couple extra zerglings and 1-2 spines. After you hold it, though, you can transition into the roach/ling timing to contain him to 1 base.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
bri9and
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States246 Posts
March 20 2012 19:53 GMT
#143
If they don't fall for that, offer $20 for a surrender and that pretty much secures the win.
I don't have time to play with myself
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
March 21 2012 19:50 GMT
#144
On March 21 2012 04:53 bri9and wrote:
If they don't fall for that, offer $20 for a surrender and that pretty much secures the win.

Bit of a silly suggestion, not really related to strategy. I can't imagine anyone would accept such an offer, and anyone who pays 20$ for someone to leave a game would go broke pretty fast.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
bri9and
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States246 Posts
March 23 2012 18:06 GMT
#145
Well played sir.. well played.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5499/loltang.jpg

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=32696&currentpage=1076#21526
forevernerdy was just banned by Chill.

That account was created on 2011-10-23 14:05:06 and had 30 posts.

Reason: You seriously made a second account to ask yourself questions in your own thread Tang? Come on bro.
I don't have time to play with myself
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
March 23 2012 18:11 GMT
#146
On March 24 2012 03:06 bri9and wrote:
Well played sir.. well played.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5499/loltang.jpg

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=32696&currentpage=1076#21526
Show nested quote +
forevernerdy was just banned by Chill.

That account was created on 2011-10-23 14:05:06 and had 30 posts.

Reason: You seriously made a second account to ask yourself questions in your own thread Tang? Come on bro.

Do some research on the poster of that topic on reddit, it's just a line taken out of context of the greater joke. Please post the entire replay, so we can all see!

Also, Chill unbanned that account, it was banned because a Uwaterloo friend and I have the same IP when we're on campus.

I appreciate your desire to keep the SC2 community honest though! It would be shameful if someone actually paid their way into Grand Master, or created an account to bump their own threads on TL.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 23 2012 18:34 GMT
#147
On January 28 2012 02:59 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 11:23 XChoke wrote:
I don't understand why people have some hate against the OP because of his stylistic choice of play. I personal play a similar style using an intial army to contain while gaining map control. Yes Banshee's/drops are quite a common response but it's so predictable that you just get those extra queens and a spine crawler or two a little earlier...

Why do so many Zergs think that any build that doesn't optimize economy is "all in"? Tell that Leenock! I believe the OP is actually advocating quite a balanced play style that contains/pressures the opponent while he safely macro's behind it. How is this not a good transition or any less valid than droning to 70+?

I agree XChoke, I think there's a double-standard in StarCraft where Terran and Protoss players are expected to do pressure builds but if a Zerg player tries to pressure it's suddenly cheese. I hope more people open up to the variety of strategies in SC2!

Imagine a Terran or Protoss player pulls 10-15 workers with every pressure build that they do. That's usually around the number of drones you're cutting with your builds on every offensive, and that's why they're all-ins.

If your builds were built around keeping an equivalent economy with your opponent, then you might be able to call it pressure. But there is no double-standard - If Terran and Protoss cut worker production, or pull workers, then they're doing an all-in. It would be a double-standard not to say the same about Zerg.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
March 23 2012 18:50 GMT
#148
On March 24 2012 03:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2012 02:59 TangSC wrote:
On January 27 2012 11:23 XChoke wrote:
I don't understand why people have some hate against the OP because of his stylistic choice of play. I personal play a similar style using an intial army to contain while gaining map control. Yes Banshee's/drops are quite a common response but it's so predictable that you just get those extra queens and a spine crawler or two a little earlier...

Why do so many Zergs think that any build that doesn't optimize economy is "all in"? Tell that Leenock! I believe the OP is actually advocating quite a balanced play style that contains/pressures the opponent while he safely macro's behind it. How is this not a good transition or any less valid than droning to 70+?

I agree XChoke, I think there's a double-standard in StarCraft where Terran and Protoss players are expected to do pressure builds but if a Zerg player tries to pressure it's suddenly cheese. I hope more people open up to the variety of strategies in SC2!

Imagine a Terran or Protoss player pulls 10-15 workers with every pressure build that they do. That's usually around the number of drones you're cutting with your builds on every offensive, and that's why they're all-ins.

If your builds were built around keeping an equivalent economy with your opponent, then you might be able to call it pressure. But there is no double-standard - If Terran and Protoss cut worker production, or pull workers, then they're doing an all-in. It would be a double-standard not to say the same about Zerg.

I like that you're analyzing it critically! But I would disagree with a few points.

First, you cannot compare executing a timing attack that uses 15 larva with protoss/terran players pulling 10/15 workers. Using workers as part of a timing attack immediately cuts your income in half! Not to mention lost mining time of moving across the map. With a roach/ling timing you're droning into the mid game, securing one fully-saturated base and an expansion with a few drones (it takes roughly 22-26 drones to be able to support 2hatch/2queen drone production).

I understand that you see StarCraft II as a game that revolves around "keeping an equivalent economy with your opponent". Many people would agree with you, and I think your answer is partically right: maintaining equal or greater economy with your opponent is a significant factor and it's one way to approach your decision-making. But you have to take into consideration other factors too, like map control and safety to drone, scouting information, damage done to opponent, and additional defenses built by opponent.

There are a wide variety of economic and aggressive transitions available to those who properly execute Roach/Ling timing attacks.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Proxee
Profile Joined September 2011
63 Posts
March 30 2012 19:29 GMT
#149
This build is Very much NOT an all-in. It can be used that way, or u could just go for a macro game. And also I'm sick of these double standard for zerg players, Protoss/Terran do early timing attacks and its stratgey, Zerg does an early timing attack and its Just cheese. Tang's guides are very useful for learning. Just because u can opt to do an all-in doesn't mean its an All-in.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
April 03 2012 21:05 GMT
#150
On March 31 2012 04:29 Proxee wrote:
This build is Very much NOT an all-in. It can be used that way, or u could just go for a macro game. And also I'm sick of these double standard for zerg players, Protoss/Terran do early timing attacks and its stratgey, Zerg does an early timing attack and its Just cheese. Tang's guides are very useful for learning. Just because u can opt to do an all-in doesn't mean its an All-in.

I agree with you about double standards, people overestimate how badly zerg needs 60+ drones and 3 fully saturated bases. Of course going for as strong of an economy and unit composition in the late game is a great strategy/mindset, but it's not the only one - There are a lot of ways to be dangerous in the early/midgame.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
bmore_bulldog
Profile Joined April 2012
18 Posts
April 12 2012 16:38 GMT
#151
Aggressive builds are a critical part of the game. They're annoying when you're starting out, but in higher level play they're necessary to punish greedy builds and to keep your opponent guessing. I don't understand the hate Tang gets for pushing this style. It's as though macro play is the only acceptable form of SC2. I find it illuminating to compare this thread to the thread about foreigner vs. Korean play styles, and the aggression favored by the latter.

Now, if Tang actually paid people to drop or used fake accounts, that's another thing, but for now I'll take his word that he didn't.
Glitch890
Profile Joined July 2011
22 Posts
April 23 2012 01:13 GMT
#152
Great guide, definitely going to try this.

I also find it interesting that when P or T (especially T) plays aggressively, no one bats an eye, but when Zerg does it all of a sudden your a cheesy noob.
Th1rdEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1074 Posts
April 23 2012 01:31 GMT
#153
Nice guide.. Not sure who bumped this, but definitely a good read. The small execution tips are quite important, and overlooked by many players
from the days of: TheMarine [NC]...YellOw [H.O.T.]-Forever99 OgOgO [_MuMyung_] ChRh PlayGrrrr.... SlayerS_`BoxeR` [Oops]Reach [ReD]NaDa [DF]zergboy..!! Pusan[S.G] Nal_rA GARIMTO SSamJJang ChoJJa JinSu Silent_Control iloveoov H_PauL_WII JulyZerg [DaK]JoYo
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
April 23 2012 15:45 GMT
#154
On April 23 2012 10:13 Glitch890 wrote:
I also find it interesting that when P or T (especially T) plays aggressively, no one bats an eye, but when Zerg does it all of a sudden your a cheesy noob.

It has been that way since beta I'm afraid, but I've seen so many pros (Nestea/Losira/Drg) go for 2base timings and transition into 3-4 base standard macro. The thing that bothers me the most is that people even criticize players for choosing all-in styles, they can be as effective as any.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
zZzJinzZz
Profile Joined August 2011
United States13 Posts
April 23 2012 15:56 GMT
#155
Nice build :D
Sithelin123
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada168 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-29 21:06:09
April 29 2012 21:05 GMT
#156
I'm a new Zerg player and I'm definitely going to pick this up as my go-to ZvT style. Very impressive build and thank you very much. I have a ton of practice to do before I get this right though.

Tang ALL of your guides are extremely amazing and IMO the best guides in this forum.
GodOfWarAReS
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany105 Posts
April 29 2012 21:16 GMT
#157
seriously this is sooo risky. there are plenty of buildorders which will just CRUSH yours. maybe against most builds of the terran you will have a huge advantage after your push... but its a strategy game, so be able to react to everything without getting too much of a disadvantage...
bankai
Profile Joined November 2010
362 Posts
April 30 2012 02:05 GMT
#158
Hi all, not sure if this question has been asked already so forgive me if it has:
- Is there a reason for the slight difference in this BO compared to the original Tang thread on the ZvT Roach all-in or is it? In Phase 1 in this one, you build lings up to 60/60 supply, but in the other thread you only build lings up to 52/60 supply.
- The basic BO in Step 1 does not seem to mention drone scouting - at what point should I send my drone out? I prefer 9 normally so I can get inside the terran wall-off to scout gas or not.

Thanks for your help everyone
Tenken
Profile Joined March 2011
United States17 Posts
April 30 2012 03:06 GMT
#159
On April 24 2012 00:45 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 10:13 Glitch890 wrote:
I also find it interesting that when P or T (especially T) plays aggressively, no one bats an eye, but when Zerg does it all of a sudden your a cheesy noob.

It has been that way since beta I'm afraid, but I've seen so many pros (Nestea/Losira/Drg) go for 2base timings and transition into 3-4 base standard macro. The thing that bothers me the most is that people even criticize players for choosing all-in styles, they can be as effective as any.


The difference is that they are actually good at the game where as your game is lacking past the 10 minute mark.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12384 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-30 04:07:20
April 30 2012 04:06 GMT
#160
the question is, are the units going to worth all the investment? I can see it taking down hellions, map control but how about dealing damages? (maybe getting some depots down or a few marines + scv pull?)
that's really my main and only concern, probably the one guide from Tang that I might do because it looks more macro based and easier to transition.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 37m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 266
RuFF_SC2 137
Livibee 87
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 1098
NaDa 40
Icarus 2
Dota 2
420jenkins668
capcasts134
NeuroSwarm92
febbydoto10
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 686
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K751
taco 608
Other Games
summit1g10365
tarik_tv4837
ViBE191
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV70
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH244
• Hupsaiya 108
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki16
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4827
• Jankos1588
• masondota2974
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
1h 37m
CranKy Ducklings
8h 37m
RSL Revival
8h 37m
ByuN vs Cham
herO vs Reynor
FEL
14h 37m
RSL Revival
1d 8h
Clem vs Classic
SHIN vs Cure
FEL
1d 10h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 16h
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2v2 Season 3
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.