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GoSuBlood
United States10 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:47 Geiko wrote: That build is soooo out of date ^^ Don't believe everything liquipedia tells you ^^ The 8/8 one is the only one even slightly viable nowadays. Lol >.> people do it in diamond. Idk. Anywayssssssss | ||
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Geiko
France1945 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:48 GoSuBlood wrote: Lol >.> people do it in diamond. Idk. Anywayssssssss I don't mean to be elitist or whatever, but where you really flaming NrGMonk that hard when you yourself are only diamond ? On another topic, how do you prevent a probe from building pylons in your base 1 zealot and 2 sentry ? Seems like a weak 4 gate defense to me. | ||
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
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Geiko
France1945 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:55 Lore-Fighting wrote: If you want to go phoenix and scout a 1 gate robo DO NOT GO PHEONIX! There is a timing where they can push with one immortal and you will just die. What ? :D Are immortals massive units that can break forcefields now ? | ||
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GoSuBlood
United States10 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:53 Geiko wrote: I don't mean to be elitist or whatever, but where you really flaming NrGMonk that hard when you yourself are only diamond ? On another topic, how do you prevent a probe from building pylons in your base 1 zealot and 2 sentry ? Seems like a weak 4 gate defense to me. Uhh, he's a rank 80's master with a high win rate. So I assume he was just promoted? Either way, I wasn't flaming him. He immediately shut me down, which pissed me off slightly. Basically saying that the games I played were against bronze, and not an 1100 point masters player. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:48 GoSuBlood wrote: Lol >.> people do it in diamond. Idk. Anywayssssssss I can offrace as Z and beat people with Ultra/Queen only in Diamond... | ||
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Sceptre
Canada130 Posts
The big problem when you scout with your first phoenix is that it removes that "aha!" moment where you roll in with 4-5 phoenix and completely crush his mineral line. Instead, it's more of a commitment to saying "Hey, this is safe/standard enough that even if you know I am getting phoenix, I can still make it work". Especially in the early game (pre-5 phoenix) it's almost impossible to stop a phoenix player from running in and sniping 1-2 probes at a time, as the damage output from the stalker/sentries isn't enough to kill your phoenix unless you over commit. | ||
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:57 Geiko wrote: What ? :D Are immortals massive units that can break forcefields now ? It doesn't matter. You can forcefield a couple of times but the obs will give vision on the high ground so it really doesn't matter. You will run out of FF energy. I can show you a replay if you want. | ||
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Sceptre
Canada130 Posts
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
On November 22 2011 03:01 CecilSunkure wrote: I can offrace as Z and beat people with Ultra/Queen only in Diamond... That's cause Ultra-Queen is BALLA!! lol. | ||
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OminouS
Sweden1343 Posts
On November 22 2011 02:39 Geiko wrote: Lol no. 1 base gives you exactly enough income to sustain chronoboosted phoenix off of 1 stargate. Getting 2 stargates on 1 base is a pure waste of money. Also on a completely different topic, regarding that other poster who was talking about k4g. Do people really still do that ??? With the warpgate nerf I was under the impression that what we referred to as k4g was the 8 pylon 8 gate variant that hits at 5:00-5:100. Point is that while you make the stargates you save both gas and chrono, and you can make 4 while he has 3 (for example). As soon as his phoneix are in range of yours you will have killed them with superior numbers and he can never catch up. | ||
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Geiko
France1945 Posts
On November 22 2011 04:29 Lore-Fighting wrote: It doesn't matter. You can forcefield a couple of times but the obs will give vision on the high ground so it really doesn't matter. You will run out of FF energy. I can show you a replay if you want. When I see robo immortals, I just want to attack him because my army is much stronger than his. If he attacks me, my army will be even stronger up a ramp. If by any chance, he has a ressource hack and has a better army than me, I can get 4 sentries and infinite FF my ramp while my phoenix kill his probes and intercept any Colossus he could be making. Keeping the sentries in the back, it's impossible for him to go up the ramp. I still don't get it and would love a replay  | ||
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Geiko
France1945 Posts
On November 22 2011 04:32 OminouS wrote: Point is that while you make the stargates you save both gas and chrono, and you can make 4 while he has 3 (for example). As soon as his phoneix are in range of yours you will have killed them with superior numbers and he can never catch up. he can run back to his base and get his phoenix protected by his stalkers. In the end, even if you manage to kill 1-2 phoenix, that's how much gas you spent to get the second stargate. If he is careful, and doesn't lose his phoenixes, then you'll just be down by 1.5 phoenix for the rest of the game. Then only time double stargate is a good answer to simple stargate is in a 2vs2 game when your terran buddy is feeding you gas. | ||
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1st_Panzer_Div.
United States621 Posts
And chalk me up as someone else who doesn't understand/has never seen 1 gate robo 1 immortal timing attack beat a phoenix opening. It doesn't even make sense in theory. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
one thing overlooked is this strategy seems more fun to play than any other in PvP so if anyone has replays of holding off a well executed 4 gate please post them | ||
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Geiko
France1945 Posts
On November 22 2011 07:26 ThePianoDentist wrote: i cant understand how its safe against 4 gate. I tried this strategy once and whooped a player doing one gate robo but what are you going to do versus 4 gate. yes you can get sentries out in time to forcefield your ramp...but what's that going to do, delay your inevitable death by 30 seconds or so? with a robo build you can forcefield your ramp until immortals come out, stargate... one thing overlooked is this strategy seems more fun to play than any other in PvP so if anyone has replays of holding off a well executed 4 gate please post them Pretty much anything is safe against 4 gate these days as long as you're not ultra greedy. I've been doing my defensive 3 gate build with one less gate (defensive 2 gate ?) and it holds fine even against GM level 4 gates. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On November 17 2011 05:16 hzflank wrote: I really like the idea of phoenix play, but I have not got it working as I want it to, yet. That said, I have been trying a quirky build. It is basically 1 gate 1 stargate, where you only make one stalker and then go straight into chronoboosted phoenix. It sounds terrible, but I add a forge and get a cannon at my natural finished by 5:20. It works because you can add an additional two cannons and have them all by 5:30, and have two phoenix out by 6 minutes, which means it actually holds a four gate without the need for any sentries, and allows you to start your expansion before 8 minutes. In my cases you are not 4 gated and can start your expansion by 6:30. I know most people think that blink stalkers beat phoenix, but they actually dont. Stalkers take 16 shots to kill a phoenix, so you can pick stalkers off one at a time and move injured phoenix away. Even with imperfct micro you can kill more than you lose. Phoenix work well in conjuction with cannons since you will have a mineral surplus. Cannons have the same vision range as observers, and since phoenix two-shot observers, a single phoenix + cannon can stop them blinking into your main. And it they try to engage your phoenix ball within range of your cannons then it is a massacre. I am still working on getting my timing right for a DT transition. I know this sounds like really low level stuff, but it isnt. If you can get phoenix out fast enough they really do a number on stalkers. I don't know how you'd hold a 4gate doing that. Assuming you took 2gas and skipped zealot, and weren't doing 3stalker rush, I can absolutely 4gate you. You wouldn't be able to stop me from putting down pylons below and potentially above the ramp. A single cannon doesn't stop a 4gate, if I micro I can kill a cannon losing nothing. From my experience you need something like 3 cannons on a ramp just to stop a 4gate, let alone on open ground where micro is simple. I do agree though that stalkers are pretty bad against phoenix though, it's just you need to get there safely. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On November 22 2011 07:41 Geiko wrote: Pretty much anything is safe against 4 gate these days as long as you're not ultra greedy. I've been doing my defensive 3 gate build with one less gate (defensive 2 gate ?) and it holds fine even against GM level 4 gates. does it rely on forcefielding his army in half if he tries to break the ramp? maybe i just need to do better forcefields | ||
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Geiko
France1945 Posts
On November 22 2011 08:07 ThePianoDentist wrote: does it rely on forcefielding his army in half if he tries to break the ramp? maybe i just need to do better forcefields No not in half, Ideally just 2 stalkers or something like that. If he's still under your ramp while he's warping in his first round, you've already won. The tricky part is not letting him get up the ramp to plant pylons when he starts pressuring you with his first units. | ||
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TheVast
Canada12 Posts
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