|
On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran.
hears a hint......... use EMP
|
On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran.
I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o
On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP
And yes I'm experimenting with bringing medivacs+ghosts along to allow me to not have to switch to full Banshee production just to react to heavy HTs. Terran might be able to just rape a Protoss head on if he's HT heavy and you have a couple EMPs ready. (or you can just mass BC, stack them all up, EMP them once or twice with one ghost, then go attack :D)
|
Russian Federation473 Posts
On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP
sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement.
would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions?
for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear.
emp has a range of 10.
seeker missile has a range of 6.
feedback has a range of 9.
colossus has a range of 9.
so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar.
on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus.
the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even.
|
Russian Federation473 Posts
On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o
yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter.
really it's like massing phoenixes against thors!
|
On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even.
then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/
Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o
But once again, colossi are a waste
On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors!
Then you are putting words into my mouth =/
Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs...
|
Russian Federation473 Posts
On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs...
ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy.
colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc.
blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily.
i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player.
don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success.
and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi.
|
On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi.
Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs?
First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have.
I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make.
Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story.
|
On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story.
Yoshi, your a great inovator of the meta game, i jsut wish people would realise how powerful this style is when its perfected and upgrades are involved
|
Russian Federation473 Posts
On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story.
wow dude if you can do medivac-ghost drop-pick up micro in front of colossus and high templar while firing emps... why aren't you gsl champion?
just to be caustic and to counter your arguments in your own style:
protoss can always dodge emps, seeker missiles, and even banshee rockets with warp prism micro - remember that with speed upgrade warp prism outruns the vikings, and with mothership cloaking field it can even dodge the lanzer torpedoes.
protoss can always blink with the targeted stalker into a group of your troops and cause massive damage to your own units with your own seeker missile. the same goes for chargelots.
and if i'm serious, there really CAN'T be a situation where terran has multiple seeker missiles ready to launch and toss has no HTs.
|
On November 24 2011 17:45 Ganseng wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. wow dude if you can do medivac-ghost drop-pick up micro in front of colossus and high templar while firing emps... why aren't you gsl champion?
Dude, it's like, not that hard. You realize that if you pick up a unit before the Colossus animation ends, the damage doesn't go through? So you have that time to EMP and load back up. But really all that's important is if your EMPs go off and stop Storm/Feedback. If he has colossus that's really crippling him, could be 4 stalkers instead.
On November 24 2011 17:43 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. Yoshi, your a great inovator of the meta game, i jsut wish people would realise how powerful this style is when its perfected and upgrades are involved
haha well i'm certainly not the first to play air style, and even then you would need to show it a lot in pro level play to be a "great inovator of the metagame" but thanks xD
|
Russian Federation473 Posts
On November 24 2011 17:48 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 17:45 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. wow dude if you can do medivac-ghost drop-pick up micro in front of colossus and high templar while firing emps... why aren't you gsl champion? Dude, it's like, not that hard. You realize that if you pick up a unit before the Colossus animation ends, the damage doesn't go through? So you have that time to EMP and load back up. But really all that's important is if your EMPs go off and stop Storm/Feedback. If he has colossus that's really crippling him, could be 4 stalkers instead. Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 17:43 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. Yoshi, your a great inovator of the meta game, i jsut wish people would realise how powerful this style is when its perfected and upgrades are involved haha well i'm certainly not the first to play air style, and even then you would need to show it a lot in pro level play to be a "great inovator of the metagame" but thanks xD
toss can theoretically do the same with warp prism - dodge emps while feedbacking the medivac... see the edited post above.
and automaton 2000 can trade 200 marines for 400 banelings 
|
This works vs zerg also, or at least vs ME, because I found one terran in low diamond who just did this build, and it was like:
Me: "Oh, fortress on the natural, it is fine, third and mutas"
Me: "WTF!!! 4 ports with techlab??
2 mins later: LOL; mass raven, this guy is such noob... (zounds of turrets and wall in prevent me to enter their base with mutas)
4 minutes later: one misclick and my muta ball dissapear because of HSM + lings and ultras got raped by shees and turrets.
Oh wait...
Of course this build works mostly because it is strange, and you have the advantage since you know what you are doing and your oponent doesn't.
Pretty sick guide anyway, very good work.
|
On November 24 2011 17:56 Ganseng wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 17:48 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:45 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. wow dude if you can do medivac-ghost drop-pick up micro in front of colossus and high templar while firing emps... why aren't you gsl champion? Dude, it's like, not that hard. You realize that if you pick up a unit before the Colossus animation ends, the damage doesn't go through? So you have that time to EMP and load back up. But really all that's important is if your EMPs go off and stop Storm/Feedback. If he has colossus that's really crippling him, could be 4 stalkers instead. On November 24 2011 17:43 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. Yoshi, your a great inovator of the meta game, i jsut wish people would realise how powerful this style is when its perfected and upgrades are involved haha well i'm certainly not the first to play air style, and even then you would need to show it a lot in pro level play to be a "great inovator of the metagame" but thanks xD toss can theoretically do the same with warp prism - dodge emps while feedbacking the medivac... see the edited post above. and automaton 2000 can trade 200 marines for 400 banelings
just to be caustic and to counter your arguments in your own style:
protoss can always dodge emps, seeker missiles, and even banshee rockets with warp prism micro - remember that with speed upgrade warp prism outruns the vikings, and with mothership cloaking field it can even dodge the lanzer torpedoes.
protoss can always blink with the targeted stalker into a group of your troops and cause massive damage to your own units with your own seeker missile. the same goes for chargelots.
and if i'm serious, there really CAN'T be a situation where terran has multiple seeker missiles ready to launch and toss has no HTs.
Would you stop being caustic if I counter all your arguments right now?
If both HT and Ghost dodge, they both waste 75 energy. Then guess what? No EMP nor Storm goes off. So it's an equal situation in regards to the Ravens making your army weaker or stronger.
Yes but trading 200 marines for 400 blings is like humanely impossible, or at least an extremely incredible feat if pulled off, while dodging a Colossus beam just takes a couple minutes of practice, and is only a few actions.
I don't understand what this "counter your arguments in your own style" is. I'm just saying why the things you're saying aren't true, are wrong, or are unrealistic, and now you're just making it hard.
You're not going to make a bunch of WP for your army because that's a waste of minerals and Terran will outexpand you and/or you won't have zealots to help kill Terran's bases.
Why would you need to shoot down the WP with the vikings, as long as the ground army isn't on the ground ready to fight?
You have Ravens and Scans to detect Mothership cloak.
You can't dodge seeker missiles if he already blinked and you SM him soon after. Also, you can SM Void Rays, Carriers, Phoenix. The same could go for you, you could SM a couple hellions and run them into their army when the SM comes in range of 2 (once in range of 2 of the target, it will hit no matter what).
HTs can't fly, sorry. So HTs will not always be present. They also won't be present if you snipe the HT building thingy.
On November 24 2011 18:04 Eviscerador wrote:
This works vs zerg also, or at least vs ME, because I found one terran in low diamond who just did this build, and it was like:
Me: "Oh, fortress on the natural, it is fine, third and mutas"
Me: "WTF!!! 4 ports with techlab??
2 mins later: LOL; mass raven, this guy is such noob... (zounds of turrets and wall in prevent me to enter their base with mutas)
4 minutes later: one misclick and my muta ball dissapear because of HSM + lings and ultras got raped by shees and turrets.
Oh wait...
Of course this build works mostly because it is strange, and you have the advantage since you know what you are doing and your oponent doesn't.
Pretty sick guide anyway, very good work.
Thanks for sharing ^^ Did you try Infestors though? Maybe with Corruptors and/or Hydras? and maybe burn minerals on lings to kill his bases/SCVs?
|
On November 24 2011 17:48 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 17:45 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. wow dude if you can do medivac-ghost drop-pick up micro in front of colossus and high templar while firing emps... why aren't you gsl champion? Dude, it's like, not that hard. You realize that if you pick up a unit before the Colossus animation ends, the damage doesn't go through? So you have that time to EMP and load back up. But really all that's important is if your EMPs go off and stop Storm/Feedback. If he has colossus that's really crippling him, could be 4 stalkers instead. Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 17:43 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. Yoshi, your a great inovator of the meta game, i jsut wish people would realise how powerful this style is when its perfected and upgrades are involved haha well i'm certainly not the first to play air style, and even then you would need to show it a lot in pro level play to be a "great inovator of the metagame" but thanks xD
true you didn't, but your sending it on the right track................ god if only terrans actaully used ravens more. there like the science vessels little borther
|
On November 24 2011 18:16 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 17:48 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:45 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. wow dude if you can do medivac-ghost drop-pick up micro in front of colossus and high templar while firing emps... why aren't you gsl champion? Dude, it's like, not that hard. You realize that if you pick up a unit before the Colossus animation ends, the damage doesn't go through? So you have that time to EMP and load back up. But really all that's important is if your EMPs go off and stop Storm/Feedback. If he has colossus that's really crippling him, could be 4 stalkers instead. On November 24 2011 17:43 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. Yoshi, your a great inovator of the meta game, i jsut wish people would realise how powerful this style is when its perfected and upgrades are involved haha well i'm certainly not the first to play air style, and even then you would need to show it a lot in pro level play to be a "great inovator of the metagame" but thanks xD true you didn't, but your sending it on the right track................ god if only terrans actaully used ravens more. there like the science vessels little borther
Except that HSM does instant damage and can affect non-biological units, too :D
|
Russian Federation473 Posts
On November 24 2011 18:06 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 17:56 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 17:48 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:45 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. wow dude if you can do medivac-ghost drop-pick up micro in front of colossus and high templar while firing emps... why aren't you gsl champion? Dude, it's like, not that hard. You realize that if you pick up a unit before the Colossus animation ends, the damage doesn't go through? So you have that time to EMP and load back up. But really all that's important is if your EMPs go off and stop Storm/Feedback. If he has colossus that's really crippling him, could be 4 stalkers instead. On November 24 2011 17:43 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. hears a hint......... use EMP sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:35 Ganseng wrote:
seeker missile is super strong against zerg and terran, but total garbage against protoss.
come on yoshi, 6 range on 9 range of feedback, are you kidding me?
and a templar can instantly kill up to 4 ravens, it's just impossible to make seeker missile work given toss is less than 2 leagues behind the terran. I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. Yoshi, your a great inovator of the meta game, i jsut wish people would realise how powerful this style is when its perfected and upgrades are involved haha well i'm certainly not the first to play air style, and even then you would need to show it a lot in pro level play to be a "great inovator of the metagame" but thanks xD toss can theoretically do the same with warp prism - dodge emps while feedbacking the medivac... see the edited post above. and automaton 2000 can trade 200 marines for 400 banelings Show nested quote +just to be caustic and to counter your arguments in your own style:
protoss can always dodge emps, seeker missiles, and even banshee rockets with warp prism micro - remember that with speed upgrade warp prism outruns the vikings, and with mothership cloaking field it can even dodge the lanzer torpedoes.
protoss can always blink with the targeted stalker into a group of your troops and cause massive damage to your own units with your own seeker missile. the same goes for chargelots.
and if i'm serious, there really CAN'T be a situation where terran has multiple seeker missiles ready to launch and toss has no HTs. Would you stop being caustic if I counter all your arguments right now? If both HT and Ghost dodge, they both waste 75 energy. Then guess what? No EMP nor Storm goes off. So it's an equal situation in regards to the Ravens making your army weaker or stronger. Yes but trading 200 marines for 400 blings is like humanely impossible, or at least an extremely incredible feat if pulled off, while dodging a Colossus beam just takes a couple minutes of practice, and is only a few actions. I don't understand what this "counter your arguments in your own style" is. I'm just saying why the things you're saying aren't true, are wrong, or are unrealistic, and now you're just making it hard. You're not going to make a bunch of WP for your army because that's a waste of minerals and Terran will outexpand you and/or you won't have zealots to help kill Terran's bases. Why would you need to shoot down the WP with the vikings, as long as the ground army isn't on the ground ready to fight? You have Ravens and Scans to detect Mothership cloak. You can't dodge seeker missiles if he already blinked and you SM him soon after. Also, you can SM Void Rays, Carriers, Phoenix. The same could go for you, you could SM a couple hellions and run them into their army when the SM comes in range of 2 (once in range of 2 of the target, it will hit no matter what). HTs can't fly, sorry. So HTs will not always be present. They also won't be present if you snipe the HT building thingy. Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 18:04 Eviscerador wrote:
This works vs zerg also, or at least vs ME, because I found one terran in low diamond who just did this build, and it was like:
Me: "Oh, fortress on the natural, it is fine, third and mutas"
Me: "WTF!!! 4 ports with techlab??
2 mins later: LOL; mass raven, this guy is such noob... (zounds of turrets and wall in prevent me to enter their base with mutas)
4 minutes later: one misclick and my muta ball dissapear because of HSM + lings and ultras got raped by shees and turrets.
Oh wait...
Of course this build works mostly because it is strange, and you have the advantage since you know what you are doing and your oponent doesn't.
Pretty sick guide anyway, very good work. Thanks for sharing ^^ Did you try Infestors though? Maybe with Corruptors and/or Hydras? and maybe burn minerals on lings to kill his bases/SCVs?
you always describe such weird situations that will occur more seldom than a yamato cannon will be fired on a marine (but you'll probably say it can happen...)
if you build medivacs why can't he build warp prisms?..
but whatever if you want to beat protoss with seeker missiles good luck in it.
and by the way feedback costs 50 energy not 75 and max. energy on ht is 200.
and medivac will most likely not survive the feedback unless... you emp it beforehand lol.
|
On November 24 2011 18:26 Ganseng wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 18:06 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:56 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 17:48 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:45 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:
[quote]
hears a hint......... use EMP
sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
[quote]
I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. wow dude if you can do medivac-ghost drop-pick up micro in front of colossus and high templar while firing emps... why aren't you gsl champion? Dude, it's like, not that hard. You realize that if you pick up a unit before the Colossus animation ends, the damage doesn't go through? So you have that time to EMP and load back up. But really all that's important is if your EMPs go off and stop Storm/Feedback. If he has colossus that's really crippling him, could be 4 stalkers instead. On November 24 2011 17:43 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2011 17:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 17:06 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 24 2011 16:53 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:40 Zergrusher wrote:
[quote]
hears a hint......... use EMP
sure i'll emp the ravens before the engagement. would you please not flood the topic with your counterproductive suggestions? for all the people who might think his posts actually make sense i'll make it clear. emp has a range of 10. seeker missile has a range of 6. feedback has a range of 9. colossus has a range of 9. so if we have a templar 2 squares behind a colossus, ghost will obviously be roasted if he tries to emp the templar. on the other hand a raven will be feedbacked if it tries to launch the missile at the colossus. the contrary will happen only in negligible amount of cases, given the skilllevels are somehow even. then the templar will not be able to feedback, and why would he have colossi? waste of gas =/ Also since EMP has 1.5 radius, it beats feedback by 2.5 matrices. So if the templar is 2 squares behind, he'll actually still be hit o.o But once again, colossi are a waste On November 24 2011 16:54 Ganseng wrote:On November 24 2011 16:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
[quote]
I never said to use seeker missile vs HTs o.o yeah but if toss is not totally brain-damaged he'll get the hts, and they are such an insanely hard counter. really it's like massing phoenixes against thors! Then you are putting words into my mouth =/ Also, he's talking about EMPing the HTs... ehhhh why won't templar be able to feedback? he'll feedback, kill 200 gas, spend 50 energy. colossi are needed to dispatch ghosts and kill your stuff: buildings, scvs etc. blink stalkers or chargelots can actually also protect templars from ghosts, but not as easily. i'm not putting words in your mouth, you said seeker missile can be strong against toss, didn't you? I say no, it can only be strong if the toss player is ways worse than the terran player. don't take me wrong, i like your creativity and acknowledge the fact that you beat some master toss with it, but i've seen dudes like qxc trying to execute it against dudes like white-ra or socke... to no success. and it looked more one-sided than zerglings vs. colossi. Because he's sitting behind the Colossi, and if he goes in front of the Colossi, he will get EMPd, and why would you bring forth your Ravens if he has HTs? First of all, you don't need Ghosts, and even if he does get Colossi you can drop micro and dodge all Colossus damage with your Ghosts o.o. Also, no Colossi are not needed, it is quite a waste of 200 gas since they can't attack air. Much better to just get zealots with all the minerals you should have. I said it can be strong. There CAN be a situation where Toss doesn't have HTs. I did not say use SM on HTs. You said the Protoss will have HTs, so it doesn't matter. Therefore, you are putting words into my mouth, because you created a counter to a statement that I didn't even make. Also, if you check out the video I linked with QXC vs WhiteRa? I pointed out a lot of QXC's mistakes that would have allowed him to win if he fixed them. So, it definitely "works", whether or not it is "stronger" than normal bio MMM V/G is a different story. Yoshi, your a great inovator of the meta game, i jsut wish people would realise how powerful this style is when its perfected and upgrades are involved haha well i'm certainly not the first to play air style, and even then you would need to show it a lot in pro level play to be a "great inovator of the metagame" but thanks xD toss can theoretically do the same with warp prism - dodge emps while feedbacking the medivac... see the edited post above. and automaton 2000 can trade 200 marines for 400 banelings just to be caustic and to counter your arguments in your own style:
protoss can always dodge emps, seeker missiles, and even banshee rockets with warp prism micro - remember that with speed upgrade warp prism outruns the vikings, and with mothership cloaking field it can even dodge the lanzer torpedoes.
protoss can always blink with the targeted stalker into a group of your troops and cause massive damage to your own units with your own seeker missile. the same goes for chargelots.
and if i'm serious, there really CAN'T be a situation where terran has multiple seeker missiles ready to launch and toss has no HTs. Would you stop being caustic if I counter all your arguments right now? If both HT and Ghost dodge, they both waste 75 energy. Then guess what? No EMP nor Storm goes off. So it's an equal situation in regards to the Ravens making your army weaker or stronger. Yes but trading 200 marines for 400 blings is like humanely impossible, or at least an extremely incredible feat if pulled off, while dodging a Colossus beam just takes a couple minutes of practice, and is only a few actions. I don't understand what this "counter your arguments in your own style" is. I'm just saying why the things you're saying aren't true, are wrong, or are unrealistic, and now you're just making it hard. You're not going to make a bunch of WP for your army because that's a waste of minerals and Terran will outexpand you and/or you won't have zealots to help kill Terran's bases. Why would you need to shoot down the WP with the vikings, as long as the ground army isn't on the ground ready to fight? You have Ravens and Scans to detect Mothership cloak. You can't dodge seeker missiles if he already blinked and you SM him soon after. Also, you can SM Void Rays, Carriers, Phoenix. The same could go for you, you could SM a couple hellions and run them into their army when the SM comes in range of 2 (once in range of 2 of the target, it will hit no matter what). HTs can't fly, sorry. So HTs will not always be present. They also won't be present if you snipe the HT building thingy. On November 24 2011 18:04 Eviscerador wrote:
This works vs zerg also, or at least vs ME, because I found one terran in low diamond who just did this build, and it was like:
Me: "Oh, fortress on the natural, it is fine, third and mutas"
Me: "WTF!!! 4 ports with techlab??
2 mins later: LOL; mass raven, this guy is such noob... (zounds of turrets and wall in prevent me to enter their base with mutas)
4 minutes later: one misclick and my muta ball dissapear because of HSM + lings and ultras got raped by shees and turrets.
Oh wait...
Of course this build works mostly because it is strange, and you have the advantage since you know what you are doing and your oponent doesn't.
Pretty sick guide anyway, very good work. Thanks for sharing ^^ Did you try Infestors though? Maybe with Corruptors and/or Hydras? and maybe burn minerals on lings to kill his bases/SCVs? you always describe such weird situation that will occur more seldom than a yamato cannon will be fired on a marine (but you'll probably say it can happen...) if you build medivacs why can't he build warp prisms?.. but what ever if you want to beat protoss with seeker missiles good luck in it. and by the way feedback costs 50 energy not 75 and max. energy on ht is 200. and medivac will most likely not survive the feedback unless... you emp it beforehand lol.
He can build Warp Prisms, but the point is that the ghosts AND HTs will be negated, meaning the Ravens aren't. The whole point of HTs is to stop Ravens. He could drop from WP and feedback Ravens, but in that case, I still don't think WP/HT would counter this strat, you can just fly your Ravens away and try to snipe the WP with Vikings. I said Storm is 75. He can also drop micro I guess, and in that case if he uses feedback which is 50 energy it would be equivalent to using 2 Snipes, but 2 Snipes isn't instant like feedback though it has 1 more range.
What I'm trying to show by describing these weird situations is just that there's so many factors that there's no blatant way to just counter this style, hence why I see it as "viable". Like you could EMP Medivac I guess, or just purposefully burn its energy tho it might not be worth the time. Whether or not it's too weak is a different question (requiring more "skill" than Protoss, or than bio, etc. etc.)
Anyways, we are off track. The point is that Seeker Missile does not suck vs Protoss since it has uses, and also I never said to use SM on HTs. He can bring his HT around in Warp Prisms, sure, but in certain situations on certain maps, his Stalkers won't be mobile enough to be present at a fight/engagement. But you can also kill the Templar Archives or snipe the Robo Facility to stop HTs/WPs. Another simple possible situation is that you killed all his HTs, and kept your Ravens back. Then you bring them forward and either he has no HTs ready or you can't cus you killed the Templar Archives.
|
On November 24 2011 18:06 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 18:04 Eviscerador wrote:
This works vs zerg also, or at least vs ME, because I found one terran in low diamond who just did this build, and it was like:
Me: "Oh, fortress on the natural, it is fine, third and mutas"
Me: "WTF!!! 4 ports with techlab??
2 mins later: LOL; mass raven, this guy is such noob... (zounds of turrets and wall in prevent me to enter their base with mutas)
4 minutes later: one misclick and my muta ball dissapear because of HSM + lings and ultras got raped by shees and turrets.
Oh wait...
Of course this build works mostly because it is strange, and you have the advantage since you know what you are doing and your oponent doesn't.
Pretty sick guide anyway, very good work. Thanks for sharing ^^ Did you try Infestors though? Maybe with Corruptors and/or Hydras? and maybe burn minerals on lings to kill his bases/SCVs?
After loosing my mutas to ravens i tried to make a counter attack with ultras and lings, but nice sim city and 2 PF per expansion cut the lings down and the ultras got focused later by shees.
Infestors probably work but one fungal you miss your infestors are dead to HSM (or gosu micro)
Corruptors worked for a while as a deterrent , but he kept harassing my expas with ravens and turrets so I eventually run out of money.
Against zerg I think if scouted and read, it is counterable with ease thanks to corruptors, since they don't tend to stack, are bigger than mutas and pretty cheap. Also some good fungals will shut down the raven count.
But in my game it was like "WTF??"
|
Any comments on how I could have handled this game better?
http://drop.sc/64763
It doesn't follow the guide, especially the opening (I'm going for a kind of specific pdd/banshee timing, although I haven't "found" it yet) I'm also starting to think that something like a split between two-thirds air and one third-ground army is better than pure air. The game does follow some of the typical things you see in mass air vs protoss games though, like terran having lower supply, but still winning engagements, and mass expanding/basetrading (though not efficiently enough, I don't think)
There were several points in the game where I had a significant advantage, but I wasn't able to do anything with it. By the lategame I had killed something like 80 workers to his 50. I even got off a pretty sweet nuke... but by the end of it I couldn't close the game out and I just got whittled down. What went wrong? One thing I'm thinking I could've done is bunker/pf pushed his gold expo while harassing his main or something, just because it's kind of hard to maintain a position with pure air. But I don't think I have the apm for that.
|
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how to finish games quickly with this playstyle. I've been having a lot of success with mass air TvP, my only complaint is that it takes *forever* to get the gg.
Most of the time I'll finish the game with a gazillion bases and kill a gazillion nexii but the Protoss just won't gg out, just continue to turtle until starve-out.
http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)robobob_vs_(P)StThanatos/16050
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
