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Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
I use this build in my every PvP and all i can say is thank you Alejandrisha.  . I think i have some ridiculous win percentage. I think the only map where i have some problems is antiga. It feels so huge and its somehow really hard to pull it off efficiently, especially if you scout last.
It really shines when you get your timings uber precise! Its almost always over by 6th minute mark, but if it fails you can easily fall back to your base and macro since you have 2 probes less in the worst case scenario. I am high diamond by the way. Even master players falls with ease with this build .
Once again, great, fast, fun, brutal build...thanks.
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that is wonderful mesha i am glad i could help!
here's a rep of me using the build and it doesn't go so well on the press. i lose my probe so i have to forget about the rush. but don't worry! it doesn't put you that far behind because of your gas timing.
alejP v zenexyongP
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Canada13393 Posts
I had a terrible PvP. Started using this build over the last 2 days and as I've gotten better at executing it I've seen my 75% loss rate jump up to nearly 50% win rate. I've had to deal with losing my probe but I've learned that I can get to the ramp so early and will have so many more units when wg is done that I can walk the probe over with my zeal/stalker combo in case they get an early stalker. I usually retreat the probe to a watchtower and wait for my zealot to walk it closer and the stalker catches up. As long as I can get the 2 pylons down I am good to go. I learned that one pylon won't cut it since 3 stalkers will kill it before my additional 3 stalkers can warp in.
Thanks for the build alej you have probably helped me more than anyone else in these forums indirectly thanks to your awesome builds.
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Yes huge probs to you alej, I just DLed your latest replays and I will watch them later on, but I have to say that this is by far my favourite opening for PvP as I feel it's very diverse and even though I dont win that many matches outright, I take them on later on with my probe -> tech lead. It transitions so well into pretty much anything you want.
PvP is also one of my worst matchups as I'm very macro oriented as a player and expand almost every game before making more than 1 gateway in my other MUs. This build, as suggested in the op, really helps you learn both macro and micro aspects of the game and improves your play quite abit, so it has actually helped me quite abit in my other matchups aswell!
I just broke into top25 of my masters division at around 850 rating, and while I think I play too little in general to place high, PvP has always been my bane dropping my overall win % by quite abit.
So again, <3s to you for creating this build among other great contributions on the strat forum!
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On December 20 2011 22:55 Kyuki wrote:
Yes huge probs to you alej, I just DLed your latest replays and I will watch them later on, but I have to say that this is by far my favourite opening for PvP as I feel it's very diverse and even though I dont win that many matches outright, I take them on later on with my probe -> tech lead. It transitions so well into pretty much anything you want.
PvP is also one of my worst matchups as I'm very macro oriented as a player and expand almost every game before making more than 1 gateway in my other MUs. This build, as suggested in the op, really helps you learn both macro and micro aspects of the game and improves your play quite abit, so it has actually helped me quite abit in my other matchups aswell!
I just broke into top25 of my masters division at around 850 rating, and while I think I play too little in general to place high, PvP has always been my bane dropping my overall win % by quite abit.
So again, <3s to you for creating this build among other great contributions on the strat forum!
thanks! though i didn't "create" the build i am happy that i helped you find it!
this build really helped me in my pvp as well. for a while, i felt pvp was my best mu,winning close to 90% of my matches just by playing standard and making good reads with good execution. then suddenly people were doing all kinds of crazy phoenix and fe builds and weird immortal/air timings and my win rate fell. this build helped me to punish EVERY SINGLE GREEDY BULLSHIT PHOENIX FE WHATEVER THE FUCK BUILD and transition into standard play on an even or ahead footing. real good shit for my style. gl hf with it!
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Thanks Alejandrisha for the write up! My PvP was abysmal (like ~30% win rate) and was looking for something that would give me the edge against cheesy builds, give some early agression and have a decent transition out of it.
Being a lowly plat player it took a while to finally get the timings down. For the longest time when trying this on the ladder I'd outright lose and have the same (if not worse) win rate when executing this build, but I saw the potential and just stuck with it. It started to finally click about a month or so ago and suddenly I was winning again :D (~70% win rate now). Not to mention I feel my mechanics and micro have improved *A LOT* since practicing this build in tester maps, vs AI, etc.
So for the lower ranked players out there, if you try this build it may feel worse to you for a while and even lose a lot even though you feel you've got the build down mechanically, but eventually you'll get the rhythm of it (particularly how to approach the enemy with your zealot+stalker+proxy pylon probe) and things start clicking.
My biggest hurdle now is playing against players who go early robo (GW->robo->GW) and manage to hold rush. I tend to go blink as soon as I realize it's not a game ender, but unless I can keep up the harass to keep his immortal count down to a manageable number I usually end up too far behind or in a base trade :/.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
Nice replay vs 3Stalker build. It shows that even this build is soft counter to 11Gate even a noob like me can easily pull it off anyway... 11Gate_vs_3Stalker
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So if you scout an 11gate, what's the appropriate reaction?
It's all good to build a guide but i'm also interested for the counter
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Doesn't this build auto lose to a proxy double gate?
Or even a cannon rush on some maps like xel naga?
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On December 29 2011 11:54 DgSensei wrote:
Doesn't this build auto lose to a proxy double gate?
Or even a cannon rush on some maps like xel naga?
look at op. replays against both of those
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On December 29 2011 11:36 CaM27 wrote:So if you scout an 11gate, what's the appropriate reaction? It's all good to build a guide but i'm also interested for the counter
Anyone?
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Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
On December 29 2011 18:50 CaM27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 11:36 CaM27 wrote:So if you scout an 11gate, what's the appropriate reaction? It's all good to build a guide but i'm also interested for the counter Anyone?
I sometimes loose to 3 stalkers. It is like soft counter build for 11 gate.
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On December 29 2011 19:08 Mesha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 18:50 CaM27 wrote:On December 29 2011 11:36 CaM27 wrote:So if you scout an 11gate, what's the appropriate reaction? It's all good to build a guide but i'm also interested for the counter Anyone? I sometimes loose to 3 stalkers. It is like soft counter build for 11 gate.
Does this mean theres basiclly nothing to counter this? And if it is flawlesly executed you can't do jack about it?
wtf
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On December 29 2011 22:39 CaM27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 19:08 Mesha wrote:On December 29 2011 18:50 CaM27 wrote:On December 29 2011 11:36 CaM27 wrote:So if you scout an 11gate, what's the appropriate reaction? It's all good to build a guide but i'm also interested for the counter Anyone? I sometimes loose to 3 stalkers. It is like soft counter build for 11 gate. Does this mean theres basiclly nothing to counter this? And if it is flawlesly executed you can't do jack about it? wtf
There is no real "counter" to it with standard openings as far as I know. My ideal response that I try to think of when this happends to me is the following: You do not want to spend CB on WG-tech as you're gonna get yours after him anyways and after the second CB on Probes cut all CB on probes as you will be ahead in economy as well as long as you keep making Probes. Therefor there's only one way left to spend that CB on and that is your Gateway. Just go Zealot-Stalker-Stalker-Sentry/Stalker (depending on how well the defense is going) from your first Gateway and use all CB on it as soon as your Core is done. By doing this you will have more units out than him before his WG-tech finishes. Therefor you just have to snipe the Probe once he comes at you. If he manages to get Pylons up (he should be able to start two of them before the Probe dies) then just pull Probes (4-6 per Pylon) to kill the Pylons whilst your units attacks his units. If his units retreats then attack the Pylons with your units as well. If he executes his build well I think you might not be able to killl off both Pylons in time so just use your 8-10 Probes to help kill his units that are warping in and finish off the Pylons once they're dead. It's probably smart to start your second Assimilator before or during the attack and get Gateways 2 and 3 before teching if you plan on opening Robo, Twilight or Stargate. The reason you want those Gates is I guess someone could just follow it up with a delayed 4 gate and you might have troubles stoping that with just the one Gateway. I'm not sure though but it's better to be safe than sorry.
There might be other ways to deal with it as well if you open up with a 3 Stalker rush but I never go 2 early Gateways so I'm not familiar with how to play it out with that build. I would assume though that you still want to CB out Stalkers and not WG-tech and maybe pull Probes for Pylons as well.
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On December 29 2011 22:39 CaM27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 19:08 Mesha wrote:On December 29 2011 18:50 CaM27 wrote:On December 29 2011 11:36 CaM27 wrote:So if you scout an 11gate, what's the appropriate reaction? It's all good to build a guide but i'm also interested for the counter Anyone? I sometimes loose to 3 stalkers. It is like soft counter build for 11 gate. Does this mean theres basiclly nothing to counter this? And if it is flawlesly executed you can't do jack about it? wtf
The counter is to delay it. In my experience when it's delayed for even a small while they can defend it
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Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
On December 30 2011 01:26 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 22:39 CaM27 wrote:On December 29 2011 19:08 Mesha wrote:On December 29 2011 18:50 CaM27 wrote:On December 29 2011 11:36 CaM27 wrote:So if you scout an 11gate, what's the appropriate reaction? It's all good to build a guide but i'm also interested for the counter Anyone? I sometimes loose to 3 stalkers. It is like soft counter build for 11 gate. Does this mean theres basiclly nothing to counter this? And if it is flawlesly executed you can't do jack about it? wtf The counter is to delay it.
This! It's all about those 10-15 precious seconds.
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How are you supposed to scout for proxy gates? Because if I look at every possible proxy location my Probe can´t often get into their base.
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On January 02 2012 14:30 ShadowDeath wrote:
How are you supposed to scout for proxy gates? Because if I look at every possible proxy location my Probe can´t often get into their base.
it's very map dependent. on maps where there is a tower in the middle, scout through there first. on shakuras, you need to scout your base and the spot in between your base and the one vertically near it and check both towers to be sure there's no proxy gates. on xel'naga you'd have to check your base and your nat. on temple the gold base nearest you is also a proxy gate hotspot because you can't spot close to them so they can narrow it down to your base and the one that is close spawn to you.
edit: oh and on metal you need to check the 3rd in between you and your close spawn and at the gold nearest you
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Thank ou very much for this build I use it every game in PvP and have only lost three or four so far! (Played around 20)
On December 29 2011 12:07 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 11:54 DgSensei wrote:
Doesn't this build auto lose to a proxy double gate?
Or even a cannon rush on some maps like xel naga? look at op. replays against both of those
Ermm the replay vs the canon rush is not available for download or something so can you re-upload it please? I have not faced it but I would like to see how to hold it
Ps: if you cannot upload can you please tell me how to hold it off/my response to seeing a pylon go up in my base/outisde it.
Once again this is such as awesome build and you have written it up exceptionally well <3
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EPT
