EPT[G] PvP 11gate into 3gate press - Page 7
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MoreSore
Ireland73 Posts
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bigbros2
United Kingdom18 Posts
http://replayfu.com/download/gwhWqm 5:50 - I feel like I could have pushed in a lot earlier than I did. It was definitely down to my pylon placement. Where do you guys normally put the pylon on 25? Just straight up his ramp in his base or just below? If he has a sentry and ff my probe, do you back off or keep pushing up? 9:40 - I cancelled the robo bay and went for dts because he went 4gate, didn't have a forge and I couldn't find his robo. My thought was I'll just kill him with dts or do large economic damage. By doing dt harass with warp prism made him defensive and wasting minerals on cannons, giving me time to expand and tech to colossi. Otherwise I think he might have killed me before, not sure. If I went the colossi route, since he had a larger army than I did could he have simply killed me? 15:25 - I really shouldn't have lost that warp prism...bad micro by me. In the last battle I'm slightly confused how I came one top of that. His zealot could was so much higher. I think it was his micro that lost that to be honest. My immortals got free shots off at his colossi. Should I have made more zealots or less probes? I did read you don't really need more than 50 probes in pvp. Thanks for the your time and help!  | ||
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Rinrun
Canada3509 Posts
A friend of mine has been heckling me for a match, I shall show him this PvP build. Good stuff. | ||
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Xequecal
United States473 Posts
9 pylon 11 boost nexus 12 gate, scout 13 boost nexus 15 gas 16 pylon core when gate finishes (cut probes for ~3-5sec so you can place core immediately when gate finishes) 17/18 2nd gas (Get it as soon as you can without stopping probe production, should be right around the 17->18 supply mark) Start zealot when you have 100 minerals (core will be 45% finished) Cut probes at 19 probes (21/26 supply with zealot under construction) Start warpgates when core finishes, 3 CB on warpgates Robo when you have 200 minerals Start stalker at 125 minerals 20th probe with next 50 minerals Pylon with next 100 minerals Start sentry when stalker finishes Immortal when robo finishes, should have 250 minerals at almost the same time, CB Immortal twice. Make 21st and 22nd probe as soon as minerals are available The Immortal will pop out at 5:30 with this build, easily crushing this rush as well as any 4 gate provided you don't screw up your forcefields. The strat outlined in the OP you can take straight up, zealot/stalker/sentry/immortal easily kills 4 stalkers and a zealot. This also beats 4 gate as long as you FF correctly and split their force down the middle as they try to get up your ramp. You'll finish warpgates and be able to warp in a second sentry before they get their second round of warpins, letting you decimate them again with a FF down the middle. The only thing you sacrifice with this rush is a small amount of economy as you have to stop at 20 probes for about a minute of game time before you can add the 21st and 22nd probe for 90% saturation. | ||
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arodnom
14 Posts
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Lordcamel
17 Posts
On November 03 2011 17:51 Xequecal wrote: IMHO, this build is not that good, as there are 1 gate robo builds that can hold even this. This is what I do in PvP: The fact that one build possibly counters it doesn't make it less viable .. there are still lots of players 4 gating in PvP | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Delaying the first chrono on nexus and not using a second on it either accounts for around a ~75 mineral loss when going up to 22 probes straight. Simply too much imo for such small pressure. The best reaction agianst this imo is a simple 3 gate defense on 2 gas. You'll just get better income and have warpgate ~10-15 sec later but can defend easily because of a sentry. Super fast robo builds like Xequecals also work in holding this off but that isn't a ideal choice in this situation here.. You'll be forced to throw up the robo so early that it's in plain sight of the scouting probe, at which point the other can just respond with stargate and be ahead. | ||
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
On November 03 2011 17:51 Xequecal wrote: IMHO, this build is not that good, as there are 1 gate robo builds that can hold even this. This is what I do in PvP: 9 pylon 11 boost nexus 12 gate, scout 13 boost nexus 15 gas 16 pylon core when gate finishes (cut probes for ~3-5sec so you can place core immediately when gate finishes) 17/18 2nd gas (Get it as soon as you can without stopping probe production, should be right around the 17->18 supply mark) Start zealot when you have 100 minerals (core will be 45% finished) Cut probes at 19 probes (21/26 supply with zealot under construction) Start warpgates when core finishes, 3 CB on warpgates Robo when you have 200 minerals Start stalker at 125 minerals 20th probe with next 50 minerals Pylon with next 100 minerals Start sentry when stalker finishes Immortal when robo finishes, should have 250 minerals at almost the same time, CB Immortal twice. Make 21st and 22nd probe as soon as minerals are available The Immortal will pop out at 5:30 with this build, easily crushing this rush as well as any 4 gate provided you don't screw up your forcefields. The strat outlined in the OP you can take straight up, zealot/stalker/sentry/immortal easily kills 4 stalkers and a zealot. This also beats 4 gate as long as you FF correctly and split their force down the middle as they try to get up your ramp. You'll finish warpgates and be able to warp in a second sentry before they get their second round of warpins, letting you decimate them again with a FF down the middle. The only thing you sacrifice with this rush is a small amount of economy as you have to stop at 20 probes for about a minute of game time before you can add the 21st and 22nd probe for 90% saturation. I'm very skeptical about your claims. There seems to be a number of ways for your build to lose. I'm pretty sure any build that gets a robo before stalker can just be scouted and countered by a reactive stargate into phoenix gateway timing. Also you only have 1 gateway if they warp-in zealots on the low ground and wait out your 2-3 forcefields they just break your ramp and kill you. If they choose to high ground warp-in it comes before your immortal is out. And since your robo is easily scouted he could just as well warp-in zealots first. Now you have zealot sentry stalker immortal against 4 zealots and a stalker and he can reinforce much faster than you. | ||
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SeriouR
Spain622 Posts
First of all, i love the build and how you care so much about the post, responding to everybody's questions. I don't know it has been asked yet or not (I haven't seen it) but, i have problems holding off warprism 4gate after the push, because i relly on sentrie defense it gets pretty abd if they warpprism me, especially if i hadn't done much damage. Thank youuu <3 | ||
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Vaelom
Korea (South)154 Posts
Thanks <3 | ||
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Xequecal
United States473 Posts
On November 04 2011 02:42 Jaeger wrote: I'm very skeptical about your claims. There seems to be a number of ways for your build to lose. I'm pretty sure any build that gets a robo before stalker can just be scouted and countered by a reactive stargate into phoenix gateway timing. Also you only have 1 gateway if they warp-in zealots on the low ground and wait out your 2-3 forcefields they just break your ramp and kill you. If they choose to high ground warp-in it comes before your immortal is out. And since your robo is easily scouted he could just as well warp-in zealots first. Now you have zealot sentry stalker immortal against 4 zealots and a stalker and he can reinforce much faster than you. I find that it's only an extreme minority of players that actually leave the scout probe in your base when the zealot is out. Most players do not want to deal with the headache of microing the probe around to dodge the zealot for minutes. I also think it's important to try and figure out how to beat stargate builds despite opening robo. If you can't and have to rely on your opponent not scouting your tech path, you're just playing rock paper scissors with your opponent every game. (Blink beats stargate beats robo beats blink) | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
here's 2 vods from my stream.. i forgot that i left the mic on so you can hear some arrested development and my roommate in the background lol go to ~11 mins for the first and ~59 mins for the 2nd the games are in part 2 of the vod. | ||
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
On November 03 2011 17:51 Xequecal wrote: IMHO, this build is not that good, as there are 1 gate robo builds that can hold even this. This is what I do in PvP: 9 pylon 11 boost nexus 12 gate, scout 13 boost nexus 15 gas 16 pylon core when gate finishes (cut probes for ~3-5sec so you can place core immediately when gate finishes) 17/18 2nd gas (Get it as soon as you can without stopping probe production, should be right around the 17->18 supply mark) Start zealot when you have 100 minerals (core will be 45% finished) Cut probes at 19 probes (21/26 supply with zealot under construction) Start warpgates when core finishes, 3 CB on warpgates Robo when you have 200 minerals Start stalker at 125 minerals 20th probe with next 50 minerals Pylon with next 100 minerals Start sentry when stalker finishes Immortal when robo finishes, should have 250 minerals at almost the same time, CB Immortal twice. Make 21st and 22nd probe as soon as minerals are available The Immortal will pop out at 5:30 with this build, easily crushing this rush as well as any 4 gate provided you don't screw up your forcefields. The strat outlined in the OP you can take straight up, zealot/stalker/sentry/immortal easily kills 4 stalkers and a zealot. This also beats 4 gate as long as you FF correctly and split their force down the middle as they try to get up your ramp. You'll finish warpgates and be able to warp in a second sentry before they get their second round of warpins, letting you decimate them again with a FF down the middle. The only thing you sacrifice with this rush is a small amount of economy as you have to stop at 20 probes for about a minute of game time before you can add the 21st and 22nd probe for 90% saturation. I have never once been repelled by a 1 gate robo going 11 gate. It's actually really really lopsided if you only have one gate. Heck, I'll go so far as to say if my opponent doesn't have 3 gates or didn't open 2 gate 3 stalker (and micros well), I'm going to win. | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On November 05 2011 04:07 whoopadeedoo wrote: I have never once been repelled by a 1 gate robo going 11 gate. It's actually really really lopsided if you only have one gate. Heck, I'll go so far as to say if my opponent doesn't have 3 gates or didn't open 2 gate 3 stalker (and micros well), I'm going to win. FWIW, your experience with never being repelled by a 1 gate robo opening doesn't mean that 1 gate robo can't soundly defend the 3 gate pressure. However, I do not think that 1 gate robo can consistently gain an advantage against 3 gate pressure. Although 1 gate robo has tech slightly faster, and also gets the second gas more quickly, it will end up behind in probes against this style of 3 gate pressure. After being forced to make a sentry, I doubt that 1 gate robo can consistently come out ahead in gas, either. | ||
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
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paintfive
785 Posts
I've also been trying to get a faster 2nd gas up as both a fakeout then mine 2-1 instead of only 3 on 1 gas, for more income. I'm not sure if it's effective enough, but it does seem to throw people off. edit: and LOL at your rewards showcase: dodge a heat seeker missle | ||
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On November 08 2011 21:01 Xahhk wrote: Nice guide thanks, but are there any hard 4 gate replays available versus this? Is the answer just warp ins at your ramp with maybe 2 sentries? Warp in the 3 stalkers offensively and the 3 zealots defensively. you force a defensive stalker warp-in 100% but you can't guarantee they will warp in their zealots defensively, followed by 1-2 sentries (you put guys on 2nd gas after making the 3 zealots) | ||
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