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[G] PvP 11gate into 3gate press - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Ouga
Profile Joined March 2008
Finland645 Posts
October 22 2011 22:59 GMT
#81
As someone mentioned, I don't quite get the part what you'd do against gas steal. The NORMAL gassteal happens when you are about to start your zlot, so there's no way to do the pressure while also destroying it. I feel like the "pressure" turns into allin if you're forced to let the gas stay alive: opponents tend to fullblock their ramp and just hard counter your build if they notice you don't destroy the steal. If you do, however, you aren't able to get your probe to make the proxypylons since lot+stalker aren't there to disrupt their stalkers.
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6566 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 23:10:42
October 22 2011 23:10 GMT
#82
On October 23 2011 07:59 Ouga wrote:
As someone mentioned, I don't quite get the part what you'd do against gas steal. The NORMAL gassteal happens when you are about to start your zlot, so there's no way to do the pressure while also destroying it. I feel like the "pressure" turns into allin if you're forced to let the gas stay alive: opponents tend to fullblock their ramp and just hard counter your build if they notice you don't destroy the steal. If you do, however, you aren't able to get your probe to make the proxypylons since lot+stalker aren't there to disrupt their stalkers.


If they are stealing your gas that early, you can steal theirs as well. If they take their 2nd gas and steal yours, that's an entire gw for them that won't be up for WG research so your pressure will be that much stronger. I'd advise not to try to take it down with your initial zealot stalker and instead commit to the rush. I don't see this as too much of a problem
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Ouga
Profile Joined March 2008
Finland645 Posts
October 23 2011 00:03 GMT
#83
Well, that's also THEIR regular time to take their 2nd gas. So, if they take theirs first, I feel you're forced to take your 2. gas instantly after theirs. And I'm not sure you can afford to take your 2. gas @18 with this BO, if you start zlot first.

I'm saying I don't think it can be helped that sometimes opponent goes 3gas against your 1. It's just matter of what's the best reaction to it from this BO. I'd argue that it might be the best to just cut to allining, instead of doing pressure and then very much later warp zlots in your main to kill off that gas @ 7:00ish. His WG is likely 15sec behind, while also putting 150mins on gases, I'd rather cut probes to 18-20 and 4g out of this.
Crusnik
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5378 Posts
October 23 2011 14:36 GMT
#84
I'll have to try this out, seems like it would be an interesting build to try out.
Steam: rook492
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-23 14:52:11
October 23 2011 14:50 GMT
#85
Just switched to Protoss recently and i wanna say i love this build!!! i've been practicing it daily. The fastest i can get the warp in was 5:25. Usually its around 5:30ish give or take 1-2 seconds. Thanks so much for sharing this ^_^. I'd love to hear about some of ur other builds vs other matchups (10/11 gate thats is, i just love the early core builds, so versatile)

I've been pondering what my responses should be if i don't outright kill my opponent.

If they 4 gated, 3 gated, if i see a robo, stargate etc. As well as a mirror build. I'd love to hear ur thoughts.
TL+ Member
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6566 Posts
October 23 2011 20:10 GMT
#86
On October 23 2011 23:50 ReachTheSky wrote:
Just switched to Protoss recently and i wanna say i love this build!!! i've been practicing it daily. The fastest i can get the warp in was 5:25. Usually its around 5:30ish give or take 1-2 seconds. Thanks so much for sharing this ^_^. I'd love to hear about some of ur other builds vs other matchups (10/11 gate thats is, i just love the early core builds, so versatile)

I've been pondering what my responses should be if i don't outright kill my opponent.

If they 4 gated, 3 gated, if i see a robo, stargate etc. As well as a mirror build. I'd love to hear ur thoughts.

post me some replays and i'd be glad to comment on them! typically if they 4gate, you want to warp in your zealots defensively because there's no way you can apply the pressure whilst clearing all the pylons on your side of the map and play it safe with your 2nd gas (2 sentries after zealot warp in since you'll have enough gas for that). Any build you go against with this that doesn't have 3 gateways will be hard pressed to hold you off. Any transition is extremely dependent on how many units you see them make, what kind of units they are and how effectively they parry the attack so yes I'd need to see replays to give specific advice!
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
MaTRiX[SiN]
Profile Joined September 2003
Sweden1282 Posts
October 23 2011 20:23 GMT
#87
I tried doing this a few times after seeing choya do it on his stream but I hadn't managed to get the timing right. This guide was very helpfull, thank you.
aka StormtoSS
Phantom09
Profile Joined February 2011
United States73 Posts
October 23 2011 21:07 GMT
#88
This build is awesome, it turned my PvP from my worst matchup into a solid one, where I don't feel like I have to cheese Thank you Alejandrisha!!!!!
Day[9] made me do it.
ma70
Profile Joined October 2010
253 Posts
October 24 2011 01:27 GMT
#89
I have to ask (since I'm bad at PvP), what do you do against a 10 gate 4 gate with this build?
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6566 Posts
October 24 2011 01:46 GMT
#90
On October 24 2011 10:27 ma70 wrote:
I have to ask (since I'm bad at PvP), what do you do against a 10 gate 4 gate with this build?


If you scout a gate/core that is faster than yours, I'd advise you not to put up aggressive pylons unless you know for sure he's not 4gating--this can be difficult as I have seen some 10 gate builds that turn into 2gate for very fast pairs of stalkers and you really can't tell whether or not they're adding 2 gates or not. I'd advise you to play defensively against this kind of play (10 gate into gate-core-gate, or 10 gate along with not being able to rule out 4gate) and start mining from your 2nd gas more quickly to get out a sentry or 2 for defense. After that, you'll have a better economy because of your 2nd gas and your 11 gate vs his 10 (he cut more probes).
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Lemonayd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States745 Posts
October 24 2011 04:17 GMT
#91
This build has made me feel soooo much better about pvp. Since I read this guide on Friday (and due to the fact I was off for the weekend) I went from rank 50 diamond to rank 11 due to the confidence it gave me to ladder more ^_^. I now do not feel any dread towards the match-up.

I did run into somebody doing the 3 stalker build which gave me some issues, but when I ran into him the second time he d/c'd, so I won in the end ^^.
Fairwell
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria195 Posts
October 24 2011 04:39 GMT
#92
This build has become my staple pvp opening since I read this thread, I really recommend it.
ChineseWife
Profile Joined August 2010
United States373 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 05:02:10
October 24 2011 05:01 GMT
#93
whats a good timing for warpins with this build? i think the first time i tried it i had 3 stalkers warping in at 5:26
Oops I made no units
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6566 Posts
October 24 2011 06:29 GMT
#94
On October 24 2011 14:01 ChineseWife wrote:
whats a good timing for warpins with this build? i think the first time i tried it i had 3 stalkers warping in at 5:26

5:22 is extremely good and it's what you want to shoot for. 5:26 for a first try is very good...
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
ma70
Profile Joined October 2010
253 Posts
October 24 2011 13:05 GMT
#95
I like this build concept a lot. I've hated PvP ever since they nerfed 4 gate (cause to me, 4 gate wars were fun cause I like micro intensive stuff) so I've just been doing 10 gate 4 gates cause well, the games end quickly for me or the opponent. I'm going to try doing this and see what it does for me. Looks really fun and micro intensive (which is what I prefer over long macro games)
bigbros2
Profile Joined December 2009
United Kingdom18 Posts
October 24 2011 13:49 GMT
#96
I'm having some trouble figuring out what to do as a follow up to this build. What do you guys normally do if you don't kill your opponent out right or get shut out by forcefields? In addition, I'm having trouble deciding when it is best to either retreat and macro or keep attacking.

I'll try and post a replay later tonight for some of your thoughts and how I can refine the way I do the build.
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
October 24 2011 16:39 GMT
#97
how is this counters cannon rush? Oo
ProxyKnoxy
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2576 Posts
October 24 2011 17:40 GMT
#98
Any chance of a replay where you execute it correctly? o.o
"Zealot try give mariners high five. Mariners not like high five and try hide and shoot zealot"
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6566 Posts
October 25 2011 05:52 GMT
#99
On October 25 2011 02:40 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Any chance of a replay where you execute it correctly? o.o

even oz/hero don't always get the timings down perfectly each time. the skill cieling on this build is extremely high when you consider the zel/stalk micro in the middle of the map as well as dealing with the enemy probe scout and still managing to hit all 5 cb's. we still haven't seen a perfect player and even the best only approach the ideal timings on this build when they do it
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
aristeia
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5 Posts
October 25 2011 07:22 GMT
#100
Great guide!

I don't think anybody has asked the obligatory question, so can you do this on Tal'darim Altar? It seems like there isn't any reason you shouldn't be able to, but I have not tried it.
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